WHEN Did Jesus BECOME God's ETERNAL Son?2

SPELLING EDITED


WHEN DID JESUS BECOME GOD’S ETERNAL SON?2

 

Now, in part 1 of this study called “WHEN DID JESUS BECOME GOD’S ETERNAL SON?1”, I covered most of the verses that PROPHESIED concerning God having a Son one day in the FUTURE which is now in the past. And I also covered the FULFILLMENTS of those PROPHECIES of God begetting his yet future Son on a CERTAIN DAY. In other words, the New Testament INTERPRETED the Old Testament prophecies FOR us so we can be absolutely certain of the TRUE SOUND Biblical interpretation of the Old Testament Scriptures that prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that Jesus did NOT LITERALLY pre-exist in eternity past.

And in part 2 of this study of WHEN Jesus BECAME God’s ETERNAL Son, we will cover some of the HARD verses that SEEM to be saying that God the Som came down from heaved and manifested himself to become flesh. I say “HARD” verses because I know and understand that once you have already been taught that a verse of Scripture means a certain thing then sometimes it is hard to accept any other meaning for those verses of Scripture. 

For example, some Christians have been taught that God gave the commandment of keeping the weekly Sabbath day to Adam and Eve by the INTERPRETATION of Genesis 2:1-3 of God resting on the seventh day. But when you show them that the weekly Sabbath was given ONLY to the children of Isreal for THEM to keep throughout THEIR generations as a SIGN the simply REFUSE to listen to a word you have to say. You can ask them to show you just ONE verse where anyone from Adam to Moses kept the weekly Sabbath but they will not even try to find any such Scripture to prove theory man-made THEORY that God instituted the weekly Sabbath day as a commanded to Adam and Eve and therefore, to THEM, every Christians MUST keep the weekly Sabbath day lest they SIN. And they will tell you that you are not a true Christian and that you had better repent and confess your sin of not keeping the weekly Sabbath day.

And the same is true of Christians who have been taught to sincerely believe with all their heart that Jesus LITERALLY pre-existed in eternity past in one of the following SIX ways.

 

#1. Did Jesus pre-exist as God the Son the second person of a Trinity Godhead who was WITH God at God’s side in eternity past?

#2. Did Jesus pre-exist as God the Son named the Word who was WITH God at God’s side in eternity past?

#3. Did Jesus pre-exist as a literal divine eternal being who was WITH God at God’s side in eternity past having the name the Word?

#4. Did Jesus pre-exist in any LITERAL form as a SEPARATE divine eternal being who was WITH God at God’s side in eternity past?

#5. Did Jesus pre-exist as Almighty God Yahweh HIMSELF who was WITH God at God’s side in eternity past?

#6. Did Jesus pre-exist as Almighty God Yahweh HIMSELF who was ALONE and by himself in eternity past?

#7. Did Jesus pre-exist as a THOUGHT that was WITHIN God which God spoke forth out from his mouth to bring into existence his firstborn Son and Jesus is the FULFILLMENT of God’s PROPHESIED word?

 

To me, these seven possibilities are the only possibilities that I can see from my research on what the many different church denominations teach. And to me, only ONE possibility is the correct SOUND BIBLICAL TRUTH.

It is easy, for me, to see that possibility in numbers 5 and 6 are NOT even remotely possible. For you see, the Christians who sincerely believe in possibilities number 2 or number 3, use John 1:1 as their proof text. Well, if so be that Jesus pre-existed AS Almighty God himself who was WITH God in eternity past then those Christians have to tear out John 1:1 from their Bible. For you see, IF you interpret John 1:1 AS Jesus PRE-EXISTING, and you ALSO believe that Jesus is NOT a SEPARATE person from the Father then it is IMPOSSIBLE for Almighty God to be WITH Almighty God. So you can cross #5 off the list of possibilities. 

And if you believe in possibility #6, you must ALSO tear out John 1:1 from your Bible if you also believe that God became the Son by manifesting Himself in the flesh. For you see, number six has nothing to do with Jesus LITERALLY PRE-EXISTING as God himself UNLESS you interpret John 1:1 as Jesus pre-existing as God’s PLAN to bring into existence his first-begotten Son among many brethren. John 1:1 definitely teaches us that someone or something was WITH God or WITHIN God in the beginning. So the Oneness doctrine is NOT SOUND Biblical teaching.

But what about the remaining five possibilities. Well, that is what we will find out in part 2 of “WHEN DID JESUS BECOME GOD’S ETERNAL SON?

Again, some Christians may be still yet struggling with the pronouns “he” and “himself” in Philippians 2:6, which makes it SEEM as if Jesus preexisted as a separate divine eternal Spirit being called the Son of God. God the Son, or named the “Word” WHO then stripped “himself” of all his divine nature to take on HUMAN nature. But when we read Isaiah about the “word” we see the pronoun “IT” being used.


Please read Isaiah 55:8-11.

 

“For my THOUGHTS are NOT your thoughts, neither are your ways MY WAYS, says the LORD.

9. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Then God EXPLAINS what He Himself means by HIS THOUGHTS and HIS WAYS in the following verses)

10. For AS the RAIN COMES DOWN, and the snow FROM HEAVEN, (Comes down like the rain) and returns not thither, but waters the earth, and makes it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and BREAD to the eater:

11. So shall my WORD be that goes forth out of my MOUTH: IT (Yahweh's SPOKEN word of prophecy out of his MOUTH) shall not return unto me void, but IT (Yahweh's SPOKEN word of prophecy out of his MOUTH) shall accomplish that which I please, and IT (Yahweh's SPOKEN word of prophecy out of his MOUTH) shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent IT. (Yahweh's SPOKEN word of prophecy out of his MOUTH)


Now, read the LITERAL translation of Isaiah 55:11.


“And HE IS BECOMING WORD of me which HE (WORD of me) is going forth from MOUTH of me, not to me HE (WORD of me which came forth OUT FROM mouth of me) is returning empty but rather HE (WORD of me spoken forth out from me as prophecy) does which I DESIRE and HE (WORD of PROPHECY of me will) prosper which I sent HIM (WORD of PROPHECY of me which came forth out from the mouth of me).”

 

Jesus said OF himself that he came forth OUT FROM God and Jesus knew that the PROPHETIC Scriptures spoke, testified, and PROPHESIED of him to be God’s Messiah.


John 16:25-28.

 

“These things have I spoken unto you in PROVERBS: but the time comes, when I shall no more speak unto you in PROVERBS, but I shall show you plainly of the Father. 

26.  At that day you shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray to the Father for you:

27.  For the Father, Himself loves you, BECAUSE you have loved me, and (BECAUSE you) have believed that I CAME OUT FROM God.

28.  I came forth from the Father (Or as we just learned from Isaiah 55:11 that Jesus came forth from Yahweh AS the SPOKEN WORD of PROPHECY COMING OUT FROM the MOUTH of God, which AGREES with John 1:1-14 where the logos or the SPOKEN SAYING of God that was MADE to become FLESH and dwelt among us), and am come into the world (As in, the fulfillment of the SPOKEN WORD of PROPHECY that CAME OUT FROM God. As in, God’s word of prophecy coming out of the MOUTH of Yahweh and being sent into the world. As in, being SENT down from heaven into the world through the Angel Gabriel to speak forth God's word of PROPHECY to the Virgin Mary to be CONCEIVED in the womb of Mary to be born as a HUMAN CHILD): again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.”

 

Jesus knew that the Scriptures spoke of him so he knew the PROPHECIES of both his first and his second comings. Jesus knew the prophecies of the Messiah foretold of HIM to born of a virgin and he knew the prophecies of the Messiah being crucified on the cross. Jesus was TAUGHT to know many things in the Scripture by the Holy Spirit morning by morning as he was growing up. By the age of twelve, the teachers of God’s word were AMAZED at how much the 12-year-old child, Jesus already knew from the Scriptures. So Jesus knew at some point in his life that he would be BEGOTTEN from the DEAD and leave the world to go the Father because Jesus said that the Scriptures spoke of HIM. 

My point is that the pronoun referring to the “logos”, the SPOKEN word, or spoken SAYING of God, which was TRANSLATED as “he” and “himself” could EQUALLY BE translated as “IT” and “ITSELF” laid aside, put off or stripped “ITSELF” of “ITS divine nature of being SPIRIT to take on HUMAN nature.

In other words, the logos, the word of God, or the FORM of God can be translated as IT or HE and it was the translators that chose to translate IT as HE in Philippians 2:6,7 and in Hebrews 2:14 in the King James Bible because the Bible does indeed say that WORD made FLESH. But in truth, Jesus was NOT the word made flesh, until AFTER the word or the spoken SAYING of God BECAME flesh and that CHILD born of a VIRGIN was given the name Jesus.

To say this another way, Jesus pre-existed as the IMAGE that was WITHIN the one true God, Yahweh, at the beginning of the RESTORATION of the earth in the Genesis account of the creation week, which by way is not yet FINISHED. God WILL BE FINISHING His creation IN or during the Seventh 1000 year long day called the Millennial reign of Jesus in the world to come. As I was saying, there was no literal already pre-existing divine eternal being who was LITERALLY WITH God at God’s side on the outside of the ONE BEING of Yahweh in ONE person. In other words, there was NO Trinity God in eternity past. And there was NO Son of God already pre-existing as a LITERAL SEPARATE person of God called God the Son or named the Word. Jesus pre-existed as only an IMAGE that was WITHIN the mind and thoughts of God to be created. And the END IMAGE that was within God WAS a GOD, whom Yahweh himself would CREATE or bring FORTH into existence to rule FOR Yahweh in the world to come. And there are many, and I do mean many verses of Scripture to prove this interpretation of John 1:1 to be SOUND Biblical truth. In other words. John, the writer of the Gospel of John is quoting PROPHECY in John 1:1. And in John 1:14 the FULFILLMENT of the FIRST TWO STEPS of PROPHECY, the word of prophecy becoming FLESH and then the Son of MAN being GLORIFIED after the cross.

Some Christians have asked me WHY did John 1:14 say, and the word was made FLESH instead of saying the word was made a GOD? That is a good valid question. And the SOUND Biblical answer to the question is that God HIMSELF PROPHESIED that a CHILD would be BORN FIRST. And THEN a Son would be GIVEN. And THEN that Son of MAN would be highly exalted to be CROWNED with glory to CALLED a mighty God WHEN the government will be LAID upon his shoulders. Please read Isaiah 9:6,7 and please notice the ORDER of the events being prophesied in the ORDER in which they will be FULFILLED.


Isaiah 9:6,7. 

 

“For unto us (#1. The order of the FIRST part of this prophecy to be fulfilled) a CHILD is BORN, unto us (#2. The order of the SECOND part of this prophecy to be fulfilled come AFTER the Son of MAN, Jesus if BORN of the Virgin Mary and THEN) a son is given: and (#3. The order of the THIRD part of this prophecy to be fulfilled is) the government shall be upon his shoulder: and (#4. The order of the FOURTH part of this prophecy to be fulfilled in the world yet to come WHEN Jesus will return to rule FOR Yahweh as the King of kings and the Lord of lords and THEN) his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, (Or more precisely the Father of ETERNAL LIFE seeing that Yahweh himself GAVE the son of MAN, Jesus, the power and the authority to raise that dead and GIVE eternal life to whosoever Jesus pleases to give everlasting life to. See John 5:19-30. Jesus will also be called in the world to come) The Prince of Peace. 

7.  Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even forever. (Now notice WHO is PERFORMING His SPOKEN word of PROPHECY. It is NOT God the Son)The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.”


So then, BY God speaking forth his word out from his MOUTH to become FLESH, as in, the word of PROPHECY became a HUMAN CHILD being without any DIVINE NATURE. And then AFTER that CHILD grew and learned to refuse the evil and chose then good Yahweh ANOINTED the MAN, Jesus, to accomplish the task of dying of the cross for the sins of the world.

So then, AFTER the baptism of Jesus the DIVINE GODHEAD came to DWELL IN the human Jesus to ENDUE the Son of MAN with POWER from on High. Jesus was still not yet DIVINE, but rather, the one true divine Almighty God the Father DWELT IN the Son of MAN, Jesus, to EMPOWER the Son of Man to overcome the enemy by doing all the WILL of his God and Father even to suffer and die on the cross for the sins of the world.

It was only AFTER the Son of MAN overcame sin and die on the cross as God’s spotless Lamb that Jesus was HIGHLY EXALTED to BECOME DEITY by being GIVEN the DIVINE NATURE of IMMORTALITY by Yahweh the Father.

To ME, there is NO doubt that John 1:14 clearly and plainly STATES that the “word” was made FLESH and NOT a “HE”, as in, God the Son, or the Son of God, WHO was made FLESH, but rather, the “word made FLESH” is the SPOKEN WORD OF PROPHECY of God that was FULFILLED by Yahweh PERFORMING his word of prophecy to be made to become flesh. And if the pronouns were consistently translated as “IT” and “ITSELF” then we all would be in agreement as to WHEN Jesus was BEGOTTEN of the Father and know that the WORD stripped “ITSELF” of ALL “ITS” divine nature to take on HUMAN nature. Again, please read the study “DOES PHILIPPIANS 2:6 PROVE JESUS PRE-EXITED?.

 

What does the Bible ITSELF say was made flesh?

 

Does John 1:14 say that God the Son was made flesh?

Does John 1:14 say that Jesus was made flesh?

Does John 1:14 say that the Son of God was made flesh?

Does John 1:14 say that the second person of the Trinity was made flesh?

Does John 1:14 say that an eternal divine Spirit being named the Word was made flesh?

WHAT DOES John 1:14 specifically state in simplicity without reading any interpretation into this verse? WHAT does the Bible ITSELF specifically state was made flesh in John 1:14?

Simply READ what the Bible ITSELF says was made flesh?

The Bible itself simply says that the “WORD” was made flesh!

 

John 1:14.

 

“And the Word (FORGET about the word being capitalized! The original Geek text as that the “logos” which also means the SAYING, as in, the PROPHETIC word) was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”

 

So then, WHAT is the “WORD”? 

Is the “word” a divine eternal Spirit being, who was WITH THE God at God’s SIDE that was named the Word having his OWN will in eternity past?

This is what some Christians INTERPRET or theorize with no Scriptural support that John 1:14 means. Remember the remaining FIVE of the seven theories or possibilities that I listed at the beginning of part 2 of when did Jesus BECOME God’s ETERNAL Son? If not I will list them again keeping in mind that I have already shown you that it is impossible for numbers five and six to be true UNLESS you tear out John 1:1 from your Bible.


#1. Did Jesus pre-exist as God the Son the second person of a Trinity Godhead who was WITH God at God’s side in eternity past?

#2. Did Jesus pre-exist as God the Son named the Word who was WITH God at God’s side in eternity past?

#3. Did Jesus pre-exist as a literal divine eternal being who was WITH God at God’s side in eternity past having the name the Word?

#4. Did Jesus pre-exist in any LITERAL form as a SEPARATE divine eternal being who was WITH God at God’s side in eternity past?

#5. Did Jesus pre-exist as Almighty God Yahweh HIMSELF who was WITH God at God’s side in eternity past?

#6. Did Jesus pre-exist as Almighty God Yahweh HIMSELF who was ALONE and by himself in eternity past?

#7. Did Jesus pre-exist as a THOUGHT that was WITHIN God which God spoke forth out from his mouth to bring into existence his firstborn Son and Jesus is the FULFILLMENT of God’s PROPHESIED word?

 

Except for Trinitarina Christians, Oneness Christians, and BIBLICAL Unitarian Christians, all other Christians claim that God created his WORD FIRST as the FIRSTBORN of EVERY CREATURE. And then the Word, as a separate divine eternal Spirit being named the Word, who was WITH Yahweh at his SIDE in eternity past, created everything else.

Other Christians say NO! Absolutely NOT! And rather they say that the Word was NOT created, but always existed WITH the God at his SIDE being called God the Son, the second person of the Trinity, and God, asa TRINITY Godhead of three persons of ONE God created everything BY his Word, who was God the Father’s, ETERNAL SON. Which again, they, speaking of Trinity believers, have concluded to mean that the Word was a separate divine eternal Spirit person or being, who was God and who was WITH God at his side, being God the Son, the second person of the Trinity, who created all things.

 

But what does the Bible ITSELF teach us?

 

The Bible itself simply states that the word was WITH God, and NOT that the word was with God at his SIDE being a SEPARATE person with or without a beginning Please read the study  “John 1:1 The Word WAS God!” for a more in-depth study showing other translations and the literal meaning of “WITH” in the original text.

The Bible itself does NOT say that the word was a separate person of the Godhead called God the Son. The phrase “God the Son” is not found anywhere in the entire Bible. Nothing in John 1:1 even suggest that the word is a LITERAL SEPARATE divine eternal being except for the Greek word “PROS”, Strong's number G4314.  We will go deeper in a moment what the phrase the “WORD was WITH God” actually means in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of God. And you will learn what the Bible ITSELF truly means when it says that God created all things “BY” his word.

Just briefly, for now, the Greek word “dia” also means FOR and FOR the SAKE OF. Thus this Greek word “dia” could have just as easily been translated as FOR him in Hebrews 1:2 as opposed to being translated as BY him.

 

Hebrews 1:2.

 

“Has in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, whom He (Yahweh the Father) has appointed HEIR of all things, by whom (The Greek word “dia” translate as BY Jesus should have been translated as FOR or FOR the SAKE OF Jesus) whom also He (Speaking of Yahweh himself ALONE and by himself according to Isaiah 44:24) made the worlds;”

 

The English word “things” was ADDED by the translators. There is no Greek word in the original text for the word “things” Now, while it is true that Yahweh appointed Jesus to INHERIT the worlds to come the intended meaning of “ALL” is speaking of ALL the believers in Jesus, the WHOSOEVER of the ALL who BELIEVE will be GIVEN TO Jesus to INHERIT. That is why the verse continues to go on and say “Whom ALSO He speaking of Almighty God Yahweh the Father HIMSELF ALONE and BY Himself made the worlds.”

 

Please read Isaiah 42:6.  

 

“I the LORD have called you in righteousness, and will hold your hand, and will keep you, and give YOU for a COVENANT of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;”

 

Now read Isaiah 43:4.  

 

“Since you were precious in my sight, you have been honorable, and I have loved you: THEREFORE will I give men for you, and people for your life.”

 

 

Now please Isaiah 44:24.

 

“Thus says the LORD, your redeemer, and He that formed you from the womb (A PROPHECY of Jesus being formed in the womb of the Virgin Mary), I am the LORD (Or I am Yahweh himself) that MAKES ALL things (Yahweh alone and by Himself CREATES ALL THINGS); that stretches forth the heavens ALONE; that spreads abroad the earth BY MYSELF;”

 

Yahweh alone and by Himself FORMED Jesus in the womb of the Virgin Mary by his SPOKEN word that came forth out from God's MOUTH. Jesus knew that this Scripture, as with many many other Scriptures, spoke of HIM. Jesus knew that he came forth out from God's mouth that was given to the prophets to prohesy and write down. Jesus knew that he was from above being BORN from above through Yahweh performing his spoken word of prophecy.

Even the very CONTEXT of Hebrews 1:2 teaches us that God appointed his Son to INHERIT the all, so to ME it makes more sense that the worlds were created FOR or FOR the SAKE OF Jesus, rather than the worlds were created BY Jesus. The disciples of Jesus knew and understood that God PROPHESIED all things into existence as to HOW God created all things. They also knew and understood that knew and understood that Jesus came out from God BY the logos of God, as in, BY the spoken WORD of God. And for this reason of Jesus being the FULFILLMENT of God’s word of prophecy, Jesus is called the WORD in Revelation 19:13.

 

Revelation 19:13.

 

“And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his NAME is called The Word of God.”

 

His NAME was called the word because God SPOKE Jesus into existence. His name is CALLED the word because Jesus is the FULFILLMENT OF the spoken word of God prophesying the end from the beginning. Yahweh's SPOKEN word was WRITTEN and PROPHESIED in the world by the prophets of God to be FULFILLED. The word BECAME FLESH because God’s word of PROPHECY says that a CHILD shall be BORN of a virgin. 

So then, according to the word of God being CORRECTLY interpreted in the LIGHT of the WHOLE Bible, Jesus did not create all things. But rather, Yahweh himself ALONE and BY himself created all things by way of SPEAKING the IMAGE that was WITHIN himself that God then DECLARED out from his MOUTH. And then the living word, which is SPIRIT, the very LIFE of Yahweh himself performed the THOUGHTS of Yahweh. Please read the studyDOES EPHESIANS 3:9-11 TEACH US THAT JESUS CREATED ALL THINGS?

But for now, I want to point out that SOME Christians that teach that the Word was WITH God and the Word that became flesh created all things BY his Word makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. For you see, That would mean that God the Son PROPHESIED his own Word to be made flesh. Then the Christians who believe that Jesus pre-existed as God the Son or as God the Word go on to say that the Word IS Jesus, which is fine because the Word was made to become FLESH and that human being born of the Virgin Mary, who is the Son of MAN, we all agree IS Jesus. BUT it was NOT God the Son, OR God the Word who did the PROPHESYING. It was Yahweh who spoken his OWN word of prophecy OUT FROM his OWN MOUTH and that spoken word of prophecy was made FLESH.

You see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Bible ITSELF does NOT say, “And Jesus was made flesh”, but rather, the word of TRUTH simply says, and the WORD was made flesh.  Thus JESUS himself was NOT with God at his side in the beginning as a separate divine eternal Spirit being that created all things. The Bible does NOT say that the SON was made flesh, but rather, states that the “LOGOS” translated as the Word was made flesh. And it was the SPOKEN word out from Yahweh's very OWN mouth as the HOW that Yahweh himself alone created all things INCLUDING creating his Son Jesus.

So then, IF one INTERPRETS John 1:1 as the Word being a LITERAL CREATOR God the Son then WHY does the Bible ITSELF say in Hebrews 1:2 that God created the worlds BY his Son? That CONTRADICTS Isaiah 44:24 where Yahweh ALONE and BY Himself created all things. Clearly, to ME, the translators made an error in translating the Greek word “DIA” and they should have translated the Greek word “DIA” as FOR whom He made the worlds. 

So again, WHAT is the Word? Or more precisely what is the WORD? What is the Greek word “logos”? Or simply put, what is the word having NO capital “W” that was capitalized by the TRANSLATORS by their own BIAS of the doctrine of the Trinity? I say “BIAS” because there are earlier English translations before the KJV that do NOT capitalize the Greek word “logos” to try and INFLUENCE Christians to believe that Jesus pre-existed in eternity past as the Word. You see if the “logos” was left as reading “In the beginning was the word and with God and the word was God then no one could use the argument that the word is CAPITALIZED and therefore the word MUST be a separate divine eternal being in eternity past.

So then, this time, rather than listening to the THEORIES of theologians, why not we simply allow the Bible itself to teach us what the “WORD” truly is in the LIGHT of the whole word of God.

Let us look up the Greek word in the original text that is translated as “Word” here in the King James Version of the Bible and literally nearly all other translations as the Word instead of the word. Now, I say nearly all other translations, but there are still a few translations that correctly translate this Greek word as “word” rather than “Word” with a capital “W”, which to me influences the reader to be deceived as to what the word “word” truly means based upon what the whole word of God teaches us.

To say this another way some Christians read and understand John 1:14, “the word was made flesh” to mean that JESUS was made flesh, but this is not what the clear, plain, and simple word of truth teaches us.

Here is what the New Strong's Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible defines the Greek word “logos” as meaning. It is Strong's number 3056 and it is defined as; something SAID, including THOUGHT. It is translated 218 times as “word” NOT being capitalized, 50 times as SAYING, 8 times as account, as in, a record of speech recorded as written words, 8 times as SPEECH, and only 7 times as “Word” being capitalized to signify Christ as the divine EXPRESSION that refers to Jesus the Christ. But again, in earlier translations of the Bible before the King James Version those seven verses were NOT capitalized as “Word” but rather, the “logos” was translated as “word” to NOT try and influence Christians to wrongly believe that the “logos” is a separated divine being who pre-existed in eternity past called God the Son, the second person of the Godhead Trinity God. Or as just God the Son for those who no longer believe in the doctrine of the Trinity.

The Bible concordance goes on to say that “logos” denotes the EXPRESSION of THOUGHT and NOT the mere name of an object, as in, embodying a conception or idea. And the concordance gives an example of this expression of thought found in Luke 7:7 where a centurion is telling Jesus to simply SPEAK or SAY the WORD and my servant will be healed.

 

Luke 7:7.

 

“Wherefore neither thought I myself worthy to come unto you: but SAY in a WORD, and my servant shall be healed.”

 

So the centurion was asking Jesus to simply SPEAK a WORD saying that his servant is healed and I know that my servant will be healed. My point is this, out of 207 times that the Greek word “logos” is used in the New Testament it is ALWAYS translated as meaning SPEECH, the spoken word of God, and SAYING of God, something that is SPOKEN each and every time, except for the 7 times when it is personified as being Jesus Christ, the SON OF God, where the translators themselves chose to translate the Greek word “Logos” as the “Word”.

And also, please keep in mind that in the original text these 7 occurrences of the Greek word “logos” were NOT capitalized. In other words, the Greek word “logos” was translated by Bible theologians as “Word” meaning SPEECH, something SAID, a thought that was WITHIN, which is then SPOKEN, but BECAUSE it is capitalized it deceives the reader to believe that the “word” or logos was a SEPARATE divine eternal Spirit being who was WITH the God at his SIDE.

In other words, all honest Bible scholars must agree that the Greek word “logos” in the original text that was correctly translated as “word” meaning SPEECH, something SAID, something SPOKEN or the SAYING of God 200 times SHOULD have been translated these other 7 times as “word” also NOT being capitalized.

But for some REASON SOME, to me, for BIASED reasons, “Trinitarian” theologians TRANSLATED the same exact Greek word “logos” as “Word” being capitalized 7 times to identify THE God's divine EXPRESSION referring to Jesus Christ to INFLUENCE Christians to believe in the doctrine of the Trinity. Now, to ME, this shows the BIAS of some translations toward the Orthodox teaching of the doctrine of the Trinity. For you see, there is also a great controversy that I John 5:7,8 was ADDED to give support to influence Christians to believe in the doctrine of the Trinity. Please read the study “1 JOHN 5:7,8 THESE THREE ARE ONE!” To me, no matter if part and verses 7and 8 were added they do NOT prove that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are LITERALLY ONE God. All they prove is that the Father and the Son are in AGREEMENT with each other. For you see, 1 John 5:7,8 does NOT say the SON, but rather, it says the Father, the WORD, and the Spirit, these THREE are ONE. And even then the word “ONE” can mean to AGREE as one.

To say this another way, we have been TAUGHT by Bible theologians, who teach the doctrine of the Trinity, that these 7 times only that the Greek word “logos” now suddenly means Jesus Christ, an eternal divine Spirit being, a SEPARATE person or being from the Father. And this divine Word being was called the God the Son, the second person of a triune Godhead, who dwelt WITH THE God the Father at his SIDE having no beginning nor end. And then GOD the Father SENT God the Son down from heaven into the earth, where the God the Son was then was made flesh, given the name Jesus, who would then be CALLED the SON OF the Highest. BUT, according to Trinitarian Christians and some other Christians, God the Son y REMAINED fully THE ALMIGHTY God, the HIGHEST, while being a human at the same time. And thus, according to those Christians, Jesus had TWO nature at the same time during the days of his FLESH. But they do not tell you about the DAYS of his FLESH Scripture. And if they do tell you about the days of his flesh in Hebrews 5:7 they will TWIST the true meaning to fit their doctrine of the Trinity or their doctrine of a pre-existing Jesus in eternity past.

Now, the Bible ITSELF states that Jesus said of HIMSELF that he CAME from God, as in, he came OUT FROM God, which agrees perfectly with Isaiah 44:24 with the SPOKEN WORD coming OUT FROM the MOUTH of God to send FORTH his WORD, where HE, or IT, the spoken word of God, that BECAME a HE would accomplish what Yahweh sent his WORD coming out of is MOUTH to do.

 

Please read John 16:26,27.

 

“For the Father, himself loves you, BECAUSE you have loved me, and (BECAUSE you) have believed that I CAME OUT FROM God. (To be born of a Virgin without a human biological earthly human father. And you ALSO believe that)

28. I CAME FORTH FROM the Father, (Being COMMISSIONED or ANOINTED by my Father with his Holy Spirit and POWER) and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.”

 

Jesus knew that the Scriptures spoke of him. He knew the PROPHESIES of his virgin birth. Jesus knew the prophecy of Isaiah 44:24. Jesus knew that Yahweh creates and bring FORTH all things by SPEAKING them into existence. So Jesus is saying that he CAME FORTH from God by COMING OUT FROM God.

Now, keeping in mind the very real possibility that the INTENDED meanings of these words of Jesus is that Jesus came FORTH into existence BY God's WORD being SPOKEN FORTH OUT FROM the MOUTH of God, let us read HOW Jesus was ACTUALLY conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary. Remember that Jesus, the Son of MAN knew that the SCRIPTURES spoke of HIM. Please read Luke 1:24-35, which is HOW the “logos” or word, or SPOKEN SAYING of God was made to become FLESH in John 1:14.

 

Luke 1:24-35.

 

“And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying,

25. Thus has the Lord dealt with me in the days wherein he looked on me, to take away my reproach among men.

26. And in the sixth month, the ANGEL Gabriel was sent FROM God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

27. TO a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

28. And the angel came in unto her and SAID Hail, you that are highly favored, the Lord is with you: blessed are you among women.

29. And when she saw him, she was troubled at his (“Logos” Strong's #3056 the same “logos” translated as “Word” in John 1:1,14, is translated as Mary was troubled at his) SAYING, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. (In other words, the Gospel of Luke is teaching us that the SAYING was made FLESH in the womb of the Virgin Mary. But the BIAS Gospel of Jesus is INTERPRETED as God the Son incarnated himself to become flesh but yet remain the fully Almighty God having TWO natures, one divine, and one human. Have you ever wonder WHY the Roman Cahtolic Church came up with the two nature God/man teaching. It was because the leader of the Roman Catholic Church was too PRIDEFUL to admit they made an error in INTERPRETING the Scriptures to teach that Jesus is Almighty God HIMSELF. Some Christians are not aware that it took three centuries to form the doctrine of the Trinity. The Roman Catholic Church basically FORCE Christians to believe the Doctrine of the Trinity by treatening ex-communication, torture, being exiled and even DEATH if the doctrine of the Trinity was even questioned or doubted.)

30. And the angel SAID unto her, Fear not, Mary: for you have found favor with God.

31. And, behold, you shall conceive in your womb, and bring forth a son, and SHALL CALL his NAME JESUS. (The NAME Jesus means the salvation of Yahweh or Yahweh saves. This does not mean that Jesus is Yahweh himself, but rather simply means that Yahweh will judge the world and the fallen angels BY this MAN named Jesus who SHALL be CALLED the SON OF the HIGHEST.)

32. He shall be great, and SHALL be CALLED the SON OF the Highest: and the Lord God shall GIVE unto him the throne of his father David: (Remember that God CALLS or prophesies things that are not yet as though they already ARE as the prophecy of what WILL be. So at times, it SEEMS as if Jesus is ALREADY God's eternal Son, but in truth, Jesus is BECOMING God’s eternal Son during the days of his FLESH. Remember the prophecy in Isaiah 9:6,7 where FIRST God prophesies that a CHILD is BORN and THEN a SON is given. “For unto us a CHILD is BORN, unto us a SON is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:7. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even forever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. Isaiah 9:8. The Lord SENT a WORD INTO Jacob, and it has lighted upon Israel.” First of all, this verse in Luke is a “partial” fulfillment of Isaiah 9:6 where a CHILD is to be BORN of a woman to become FLESH. Secondly, a SON shall be given some 33 1/2 years later after this CHILD was born. And thirdly Jesus knew that the scriptures spoke of HIM. Please notice verse 8 of Isaiah chapter 9 where Yahweh is prophesying to send a WORD INTO Jacob and that that this WORD would light or remain and abide upon Israel. Jacob and Israel are at times used as types and shadows pointing to the coming Messiah. So Yahweh was prophesying to Jesus that he would send his WORD INTO him.)

33. And he shall reign over the house of Jacob forever; and of his kingdom, there shall be no end.

34. Then said Mary unto the angel, HOW shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

35. And the angel answered and SAID unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon you, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow you: therefore also that holy thing which shall be BORN of you SHALL be CALLED the SON OF God.

 

Now, do YOU read here in Luke or anywhere in the BIBLE ITSELF for that matter of where it says that God the Son came down from heaven to the earth? Do you see anywhere here in Luke’s account of HOW Jesus ACTUALLY came to be that God the Son came down from heaven and told Mary that he was going to manifest himself to go inside her womb to be born as the God the Son? I mean WHY would an already preexisting divine SON manifested himself to be conceived in the womb of the VIRGIN Mary to be BORN of a WOMAN when an already existing God the Son could have simply descended down to the earth and manifested himself to appear as a human being. Or God the Son could have manifested himself to be a real human being. So there has to be a reason WHY the word was made FLESH being BORN of a VIRGIN who would then NAME her son Jesus, who would then become to be called the SON OF the HIGHEST or the SON OF God. 

You can forget about that man-made THEORY that the word made flesh REMAINED the fully DIVINE Yahweh himself having TWO natures at the SAME time, one divine nature and the other human nature. First of all, there are NO Scriptures to suport such a theory. And secondly, the theory is based solely on the INTERPRETATION of the word being a separate divine being in eternity past who created all things. And thirdly, Jesus was BEGOTTEN and that means Jesus had a BEGINNING.  But the one TRUE God has NO beginning. Fourthly, Jesus has ANOTHER God OVER him and the Bible ITSELF clearly teaches us that the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God is OVER his Son Jesus.

So again, if other verses are INTERPRETED to mean that God the Son incarnated himself to become flesh, then WHY does not Luke 1:24-25 ALSO teach that Jesus HIMSELF, as an eternal divine Spirit being who was with the God at his SIDE, being a SEPARATE person from the Father, came down out of heaven and manifested HIMSELF to be conceived in the womb of Mary to be born of a woman, BUT ALSO still yet REMAIN fully the divine ALMIGHTY God himself or remain the fully divine SON of God? NONE of this man-made THEORY is prophesied or fulfilled. So to ME, the teaching of a PRE-EXISTING God the Son is teaching ANOTHER Gospel and ANOTHER Jesus.

Should not the WHOLE word of God AGREE with every single verse whenever it is correctly INTERPRETED to mean? As I have said many times that any verse when taken out of context and viewed alone and apart from the rest of God's would may SEEM to be saying something that it is NOT truly saying when it is correctly interpreted in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of God.

Now some of you may be thinking that Jesus did SAY that he came down from heaven and that he will ascend back up into heaven where he was before. But what did Jesus INTEND these words to mean? We will cover this and all the verses that SEEM to say that Jesus preexisted up in heaven further on in this study. Remember that any verse when viewed ALONE and apart from the REST of God's word may SEEM to be saying something that it is NOT truly saying when it is CORRECTLY interpreted in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of God.

Thus any INTERPRETATION that we CONCLUDE a verse to mean then tha interpretation must AGREE with the WHOLE word of God WITHOUT having ANY contradictions to any other part of God's word. And if there is a contradiction then that INTERPRETATION is NOT the CORRECT intended meaning of that verse.

Some Christians argue that if so be that Jesus was NOT Almighty God HIMSELF, then he could NOT save us. Other Christians, who have now seen from God's word that Jesus being “BEGOTTEN” means that Jesus did indeed have a BEGINNING still argue that unless Jesus was DIVINE or had a DIVINE NATURE, then he could NOT save us either.

But in truth, NOTHING is impossible with God and if God CREATED or SPOKE his Son into existence to become our savior, then who are WE to say that it is NOT possible? WHAT do the PROPHECIES of the coming Messiah say? Do they say that God shall SEND DOWN from HEAVEN his SON? No, they do not! They say that a CHILD shall be born first. They say that God shall RAISE UP a prophet from AMONG the people. They say that God will ANOINT his servant. They say that God will GIVE his chosen one as a covenant for the people. They say a SON will be given. NOT the Son of GOD will be given, but rather a SON shall be given. Jesus called himself the Son of MAN. It was the ANOINTED Son of MAN who was given. READ the Scriptures.

My point is this. The are NO scriptures that teach us that we MUST believe that Almighty GOD HIMSELF suffered and died on the cross for our sins in order to be saved. And there are NO scriptures that teach us that we MUST believe that GOD the DIVINE Son suffered and died on the cross for our sins in order to be saved.

In fact, there are no verses of Scripture that teach us as a matter of salvation that we must, without fail, believe that Jesus is DEITY in order to be saved. Now again, I myself do indeed teach that Jesus IS DEITY, but NOT in the SAME way as the mainstream Orthodox churches teach where Jesus was fully Almighty God himself in the FLESH being fully God and fully man at the SAME time having TWO natures, one DIVINE, and the other human DURING the DAYS of his FLESH.

But rather, I myself teach that Jesus was HIGHLY EXALTED after the cross to BECOME a God or to become DEITY being GIVE the DIVINE nature of IMMORTALITY to HAVE in himself even as the Father has always possessed the divine nature of immortality. Jesus was GIVEN all power and authority BY his God and Father Yahweh. The Bible itself clearly teaches us that Jesus is under and subject to Yahweh the Father.

The truth of the matter is that Jesus was born TWICE just like WE must be born AGAIN in order to enter into the kingdom of God or the world to come to rule and reign with Jesus. You see dear child of God, we NOW, after the cross, call Jesus the FIRST begotten, but DURING the days of his FLESH, before the CROSS, he had not yet become the FIRST begotten from the DEAD. Jesus IS deity NOW, but DURING the days of his FLESH before the cross Jesus was not yet deity. Jesus had not yet been HIGHLY EXALTED by his God and Father before the cross. Please notice the CONTEXT of Jesus being lifted up like the serpent, which speaks of the crucifixion of Jesus being lifted up on the cross for the sins of the world.

 

John 3:1-18.

 

“There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 

2.  The same came to Jesus by night and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God: for no MAN can do these miracles that you do, except God be WITH him. (Here we see clearly that the followers of Jesus saw Jesus as a MAN with whom God was WITH because no MAN could do the miracles men saw Jesus do except God was WITH that MAN)

3.  Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a MAN be BORN AGAIN, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (In a moment, in verse 13, I want you to notice that Jesus is still yet called the Son of MAN even AFTER he ascended into heaven the second time where he is now awaiting his second coming. Jesus needed to be born AGAIN, which is when he was BEGOTTEN of the Father from the DEAD.)

4.  Nicodemus said unto him, HOW can a man be BORN when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5.  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a MAN be born of water AND of the Spirit (Showing TWO births), he (ANY MAN including Jesus the Son of MAN) cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 

6.  That which is BORN of the FLESH is flesh; and that which is BORN of the SPIRIT is spirit. (Again, showing TWO births of Jesus. Jesus' FIRST birth was of a WOMAN, which is FLESH, and his second birth was when he was BEGOTTEN BY the Father at his resurrection, which is when Jesus was born AGAIN to actually receive the divine nature of immortality or eternal life. Jesus too needed to be born TWICE or be born AGAIN)

7.  Marvel not that I said unto you, You must be born AGAIN. (Jesus needed to be born of water or of flesh AS of Son OF MAN first, and then also needed to be born AGAIN in order to enter into the kingdom of God. Keep in mind that the CONTEXT is about Jesus as well as all other men. The LITERAL translation reads in verse 5 as ANYONE who is NOT being generated OUT of water AND of Spirit cannot ENTER into the kingdom of God. We are being saved. We are BEING generated out of the flesh. Our INNER man is a NEW creature, but our WHOLE man has not yet been CHANGED to become the image of Jesus. 

It does not yet appear what we SHALL be but we know that we SHALL be like him for we shall see him as he IS being the FIRST begotten from the DEAD the FIRST born among many brethren.  BUT WE somehow have gotten the idea that being born again ONLY means our new birth at the very moment when we BELIEVED on Jesus. But the CONTEXT here goes deeper to include being born again as becoming DEAD or dying physically and then being BEGOTTEN again back from the DEAD. We shall not taste death, but this MORTAL must put on IMMORTALITY before we can ENTER INTO the kingdom of God. Again we have come to interpret these words spiritually to say that we are spiritually dead already and then we are born again to a new life in Christ, which is true, but it is not the whole truth. Jesus says if we seek to save our life, then we shall lose our life. 

Revelation 12:11 teaches us that they loved NOT their life even unto death. This is NOT speaking about spiritual life and death but rather our physical life to not fear being killed for the sake of Jesus and the gospel. Jesus is actually teaching us TWO stages of being born again. In verse 3 we are first born again to SEE or UNDERSTAND the kingdom of God, the things of God. This is when we are born again SPIRITUALLY form being SPIRITUALLY dead in our sin. The second stage is when we are BEGOTTEN to become the ETERNAL sons and daughters of God AFTER we OVERCOME and we are made partakers of the DIVINE NATURE of IMMORTAL sons and daughters of God to ENTER INTO the kingdom of God in the world to come)

8.  The wind blows where it lists, and you hear the sound thereof, but can not tell whence it comes, and whither it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (All men are born again initially when they BELIEVE God's word. We are BORN AGAIN BY the WORD of God, according to 1 Peter 1:23, “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever.” Now, there was no good news in the New Testament before the cross for Jesus to believe to become born again because the New Testament was not yet written. 

But rather, Jesus BELIEVED that the scriptures of the Old Testament spoke of HIM. So I would say that Jesus became initially born again at the age of twelve when he told Mary that he must be about his Father's business. Again we, as Christians, are initially born again when we BELIEVE in the WORDS or the teachings of Jesus that Jesus is our Messiah the one prophesied to come, but we are not ACTUALLY glorified to become the eternal sons and daughters of God UNTIL we are found to be FAITHFUL to the end and we are given the right to eat of the tree of life in the world to come at the second coming of Jesus, which is when the first resurrection will take place where our CHANGE takes place to be made partakers of the DIVINE NATURE of IMMORTALITY. Jesus was not highly exalted and granted the right to sit on his Father's throne until AFTER Jesus OVERCAME. Please read the study “IS ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED BIBLICAL?”

9.  Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10.  Jesus answered and said unto him, Are you a master of Israel, and know not these things?

11.  Verily, verily, I say unto you, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and you receive not our witness.

12.  If I have told you earthly things, and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13.  And no MAN (Which literally reads, and NOT YET one [MAN]) has ascended up to heaven, but he (the Son of MAN) that came down from heaven, even the Son of MAN which is IN heaven. First of all, we know that Jesus was NOT IN heaven yet when he spoke these words. And we know that Jesus knew that the scriptures spoke of him so he knew that he as the Son of MAN would ascend UP into heaven, come back down and then ascend back up into heaven where he was before he ascends BACK down to show himself alive. 

But at times, it SEEMS like things are out of SEQUENCE when it truth some things are being recorded or written down AFTER the fact having already been accomplished. For example some argue that Jesus could NOT have been given eternal life AFTER his resurrection in John 5:26,27 because Jesus had not yet DIED on the cross yet when he spoke these word in John chapter 5 not realizing that the gospels are HISTORY recorded as a written account of what has ALREADY taken place. Secondly, we all know that Jesus was NOT the Son of MAN before his virgin birth. 

Therefore, this verse is not speaking of Jesus, the Son of MAN, coming down from heaven to be made flesh, but rather this verse speaks of the Son of MAN ascending into heaven right after his resurrection before he allowed anyone to TOUCH him and then descending back down to show himself ALIVE forevermore never to die again and then the Son of MAN ascending back into heaven where he was BEFORE he ascended back down from heaven to show himself alive and then ascend back up into heaven as GLORIFIED Son of MAN where he is now awaiting his return to fulfill the rest of the prophecy concerning him)

14.  And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so, must the Son of MAN be lifted up: (In other words, Jesus is saying that he, the Son of MAN, must DIE FIRST like a seed must DIE before it can LIVE again or be BORN AGAIN to bear much FRUIT. Please read John 12:23-33 where Jesus is teaching about his death and WHY he must die. Jesus is the FIRSTBORN AGAIN from the dead to become the FIRST FRUIT of many brethren. 1 Corinthians 15:15 -24, Romans 8:29, and Colossians 1:15-18)

15.  That whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. (Now WHAT are we to believe? Are we commanded to believe that God's divine eternal Son from all eternity past came down from heaven to become the Son of man but yet REMAIN the divine eternal Son of God having TWO natures in order to be saved? No, we are not! We are simply to believe that Jesus is the CHRIST, the SON OF the living God regardless of WHEN one chooses to believe that Jesus became the SON OF God. So if YOU yourself can rationalize ALL the scriptures that Jesus was begotten of God in eternity past either with or without a beginning, then that is YOUR choice. But for ME and many, many other Christians like myself WE cannot accept such teaching. The simple truth is that many Christians like myself see that the Bible itself speaks of the resurrection as the “WHEN” that Jesus BECAME the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF God. We will cover some more verses that clearly show this fact in a moment) 

16.  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (Remember that this was written AFTER Jesus was already BEGOTTEN from the dead, which is WHAT we are to BELIEVE. For if we do NOT believe that Jesus was begotten from the DEAD, then how shall we have faith to believe that WE shall be begotten again from the dead? Please read 1 Corinthians 15:15-24, which shows that our faith is in VAIN if so be that we do NOT believe that Jesus was raised from the DEAD)  

17.  For God SENT not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (Again, the word translated as sent in a word for word literally translation read God COMMISSIONS or DISPATCHES not his Son into the system to condemn or be judging those in the system, but that those in the system may be being saved through him. The word commission means to GIVE the power to accomplish a TASK and the word dispatch means GIVEN to DIE. So Jesus was GIVEN the task to DIE for the sins of mankind and was also commissioned or given the POWER to accomplish this task of laying down his own life of his own free will for the sins of the world. If one does NOT believe that Jesus suffered and DIED on the cross for their sins, then they will remain dead in the sins.)

18.  He that BELIEVES on him is NOT condemned: BUT he that believes NOT is condemned already, BECAUSE he has NOT believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”

 

In other words, if one does NOT believe that Jesus suffered and died on the cross for their sins AND ALSO does NOT believe that Jesus was BEGOTTEN AGAIN from the DEAD, then they will NOT be saved and receive eternal life in the world to come. So for ME and many other Christians we see that the phrase the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF God means that Jesus was BEGOTTEN from the DEAD to inherit, as his reward for overcoming, the divine nature of immortality. Remember to consider ALL the word of God.

 

Please read 1 Corinthians 15:15-24.

 

“Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up if so be that the dead rise not. 

16.  For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17.  And IF Christ is not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins

18.  Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ have perished.

19.  If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 

20.  But NOW is Christ risen from the dead, (The ONLY begotten Son of God at this present time) and become the FIRST fruit of them that slept.

21.  For since by MAN came death, by MAN came also the resurrection of the dead. (Speaking primarily in this context of the resurrection of the dead in Christ at his coming, but also including the second resurrection at the end of the 1000 year reign of Jesus.)

22.  For as in Adam all die, even so IN Christ shall all be made alive. 

23.  But every man in his own order: Christ the FIRST fruit; (The FIRST BEGOTTEN from the DEAD of many brethren) afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (Speaking of all the faithful Christians both the dead and the living. This is the FIRST resurrection where all the faithful in Jesus Christ are BEGOTTEN of the Father to be CHANGED from mortal to the divine nature of immortality and we will be like Jesus for we shall see him as he is, which is the eternal Son of MAN having a body of FLESH and BONE that will never die.)

24.  Then comes the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.”

 

Now let us take a CLOSER look at the main verses that SEEM to be saying that Jesus himself literally came down out of heaven down to the earth. Please read John 6:38 where Jesus HIMSELF says that HE came DOWN FROM HEAVEN.

 

John 6:38.

 

“For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.”

 

So then, when we read this verse ALONE being OUT of its CONTEXT and apart from the rest of God's word, then it certainly APPEARS that Jesus preexisted up in heaven WITH God and that he literally CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN as Trinitarian Christians dogmatically demand that this verse means. And they also dogmatically demand that it cannot possibly mean any other thing other than God the Son, the second person of the Trinity LITERALLY came down out of heaven down to the earth and manifested HIMSELF to become flesh, but yet REMAIN Yahweh himself at the SAME time having TWO natures.

But oneness believers say that Yahweh the FATHER came down from heaven and manifested HIMSELF to be the SON, who was then given the name Jesus, who would then become to be called the SON OF the Highest. And thus, according to Oneness Christians, Jesus IS the FATHER and the Father IS the SON, as in, there is only ONE Yahweh who manifested HIMSELF to be the Father and the Son at the SAME time.

So again, we have here no less than two different theological “theories” of MEN as to what Jesus is actually saying here where BOTH sides dogmatically demand that THEY have the ONLY sound Biblical teaching and the OTHER side is FALSE teaching. In truth, BOTH sides have a LITTLE truth in what they teach, but BOTH sides have gone TOO FAR by dogmatically demanding that Jesus was Yahweh HIMSELF during the days of his FLESH.

So then, why not just simply allow that BIBLE to speak for ITSELF? What does the Bible itself actually teach us when this verse is LEFT in it's entire CONTEXT and then compared with like Scripture? Please read two verses that follow right after Jesus said he came down from heaven. Here is John 6:41,42 and then we will go back and read the entire context.

 

John 6:41,42.

 

“The Jews then murmured at him, BECAUSE he said, I am the BREAD which CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN.

42. And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? HOW is it then that he says, I came down from heaven?”

 

You see dear children of God, Jesus said far more than just I came down from heaven. Jesus ALSO said that he was the BREAD that came down from heaven. So what did Jesus mean by his saying that he was the BREAD which came down from heaven? Did Jesus INTEND his words to mean that he was a LITERAL loaf of BREAD that came down from heaven? No of course not! Then how can some dogmatically demand that Jesus INTENDED his words, I came down from heavento LITERALLY mean that Jesus himself came down from heaven? Let us read the whole entire context first and then we will let the Bible itself teach us what the word of truth means by BREAD and by the words of Jesus saying, I came down from heaven”. Please read John 6:25-63, which is right after Jesus fed five thousand with a two small fish and five loaves of barley BREAD and then they gathered up the leftover fragments after everyone was full and they filled twelve baskets, which was more than the two small fish and five loaves of bread.

 

John 6:25:63.

 

“And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when came you here?

26. Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, You seek me, not because you saw the miracles, but because you did EAT of the loaves, and were filled.

27. Labor NOT for the meat (Or labor not for physical food or physical BREAD) which perishes, but for that meat (Or spiritual BREAD) which endures unto everlasting life, which the Son of MAN shall give unto you: for him has God the Father sealed.

28. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29. Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that you believe on HIM whom HE has SENT. (And HOW was Jesus SENT down from Heaven? Was Jesus sent down from heaven AS already being the divine eternal SON OF God called God the Son, the second person of the trinity? Was Jesus sent down from heaven as an eternal divine being who was WITH God called the Word? Or was simply the “logos”, the SPOKEN word or spoken SAYING of God, which came out from the MOUTH of God, sent down from heaven by God's messenger the angel Gabriel, which we just read in Luke chapter 1?)

30. They said therefore unto him, What sign show you then, that we may see, and believe you? what do you work? (I mean really dear children of God, do you honestly think for one second that these Jews truly understood these words of Jesus being SENT by God to LITERALLY mean that Jesus himself, a MAN standing before them, was sent down out of heaven down to the earth to become a human being and yet remain fully divine at the same time having TWO natures, as we have been TAUGHT by Bible theologians that this and other verses must mean, without fail, in order to be saved? 

The disciples of Jesus and all who saw Jesus saw him as a HUMAN being, who was ANOINTED BY God. His disciples believed that he was SENT by God, in that, God was WITH Jesus. THINK this through for yourself dear child of God, because by the RESPONSE of these Jews after hearing Jesus say that he was SENT by God is NOT the response you would expect from Jews just hearing that a MAN, who came down out of heaven. The Greek word TRANSLATED as “sent” LITERALLY means COMMISSIONED by God and the Jews asked Jesus to PROVE that God sent or COMMISSIONED him by showing them a sign or some work that a MAN could ONLY do if God was WITH that MAN. The word COMMISSION means that authority and power are given to one to complete a task they are given to do. 

So then, Jesus was not literally sent down from heaven into the world, but rather the spoken saying, that which CAME OUT FROM the mouth of God was sent by God down from heaven by the angel Gabriel and it was the spoken word that was made or became FLESH. And then this HUMAN Son of MAN was SENT out into the world to accomplish the task his God and Father gave him and empowered the Son of MAN to do. 

And the WORDS I am teaching you now is the teaching that came down from heaven. It was prophesied that God would raise up a prophet and in that prophecy, God said HEAR you HIM. Jesus is saying that he is the fulfillment of the PROPHECY which came down from heaven. I am HE. I am that BREAD from heaven. I am the TEACHER from heaven sent by God. I am the prophesied Messiah. Matthew 2:2 says Where is he that is BORN to be the King of the Jews. And when Jesus was asked if he was the King of Israel by Pilate in John 18:37 Jesus answered, To this END I was BORN. So then, Jesus saying that he came down from heaven simply means that God sent down his spoken word of PROPHECY from heaven and the word of PROPHECY became flesh. The MANNA from heaven foreshadows the TRUE Bread coming down for God)

31. Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, HE gave them BREAD FROM HEAVEN to eat.

32. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that BREAD from heaven; but my Father gives you the TRUE BREAD FROM HEAVEN. (The things written in the Old Testament were types casting physical shadows of the TRUE which was being prophesied to come. Jesus knew that the scripture spoke of him so he knew by the teaching of the Holy Spirit the HE was the TRUE BREAD being sent down from heaven. Jesus is saying I am the true bread come down from heaven. I am come down from heaven as the TRUE bread.)

33. For the BREAD OF God is he (Or IT) which comes down from heaven, and gives life unto the world. (The WORDS that I speak to you they are SPIRIT and it is the Spirit which quickens or gives LIFE. The words that I am teaching you are LIFE is what Jesus is saying by saying that HE is the BREAD, the TRUE bread comes down from heaven.)

34. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us THIS BREAD.

35. And Jesus said unto them, I AM the BREAD of LIFE: he that comes to ME shall never hunger; and he that believes on me shall never thirst. (Now, Jesus is NOT saying that he is a LITERAL loaf of BREAD that came down from heaven. But rather Jesus is saying BELIEVE the WORDS that I am teaching for the words I am teaching you are Spirit and they are LIFE. I am the fulfillment of the WORD of God that came down from heaven. The Bible speaks of the leaven of BREAD as DOCTRINE or TEACHING. We will cover this passage of scripture in Matthew 6:5-12 in a moment, but for now, I want you to see that the BREAD, which came down from Heaven was the TEACHING of God, that CAME OUT FROM the MOUTH of God down to the earth to be taught, revealed, manifested or shown clearly it's TRUE meaning BY the MAN, which the scriptures or teaching of God or the true bread from heaven prophesied to come.)

36. But I said unto you, That you also have seen ME, and believe not.(These are the SAME Jews that ate the BREAD and SAW the miracles of healing Jesus did, so Jesus is simply telling them that they have already SEEN signs and works that prove to them that God was WITH Jesus.)

37. All that the Father gives me shall come to me; and him that comes to me I will in no wise cast out.

38. For I CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, not to do mine OWN will, but the will of HIM that sent me. (Or the WILL of HIM who COMMISSIONED me to do what HE gave me to do. Again HOW did Jesus come down from heaven? The CONTEXT here says that he came down from heaven as the TRUE BREAD of LIFE and NOT as the divine SON OF God. And remember that BREAD in this same context in the gospel of Matthew is TEACHING or the TRUE TEACHING of God that brings ETERNAL life if it is EATEN by BELIEVING on the WORDS or TEACHING of Jesus. Jesus is saying that HE is the WORD that God SENT down out of heaven, which was PROPHESIED in Isaiah 55:10,11. “For as the RAIN comes down, and the snow from heaven, and returns not thither, but waters the earth, and makes it to bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: Isaiah 55:11 So shall my WORD be that goes forth out of MY MOUTH: IT [Or it who became flesh to become HE] shall not return unto me void, but IT [or the word coming out of the mouth of God to become FLESH] shall accomplish that which I please, and IT [Or HE Jesus, the Son of MAN] shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent IT [or HIM my SPOKEN word made FLESH, the Son of MAN]Remember in the Old Testament how God RAINED down physical bread from heaven to sustain physical? In the SAME way. God RAINED down his LIVING TRUE BREAD from Heaven to become FLESH and teach us the TRUE teaching OF God that will give us ETERNAL LIFE if BELIEVED and OBEYED. This is HOW Jesus came down from heaven. The spoken WORD OUT FROM God’s MOUTH came down from and became flesh just like Isaiah 55:11 prophesied and Jesus knew that the scriptures prophesied of him.)

39. And this is the Father's will which has sent me, that of all which he has given me I should lose nothing but should raise it up again at the last day.

40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which sees (Or understands) the Son, (Or understands the TEACHING or the words of the Son perceiving that his teaching IS OF God come down from heaven) and believes on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

41. The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am theBREAD which came down from heaven.

42. And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? HOW is it then that he said, I came down from heaven?

43. Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.

44. No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent me, draws him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all TAUGHT of God. Every man therefore that has heard, AND has LEARNED of the Father, comes unto me. (Jesus was raised up by God from among the people of God to TEACH the children of Israel and us as well of the FATHER. Jesus says in John 17:3 that “THIS is ETERNAL life that they might know YOU the ONLY TRUE God AND Jesus Christ whom YOU have SENT” or who YOU the ONLY TRUE God have COMMISSIONED. Jesus was not raised up by God to show HIMSELF as THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God, but rather to show us the FATHER that we would know the FATHER to be the ONLY TRUE God.)

46. NOT that any MAN has seen (Or understood) the Father, save he which is OF God, he has seen the Father. (The Greek word translated as seen here means to perceive, to discern and does not dogmatically mean that Jesus was up in heaven with the God at his side having SEEN God before he came down from heaven. Jesus is saying that he is a MAN OF God and this is the way the Jews and disciples understood these words of Jesus. Please read and SEE or understand John 3:1-3, “There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: John 3:2. The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that you are a TEACHER come FROM God: for no MAN can do these miracles that you do, except God be WITH him. (or except that MAN be OF God) John 3:3. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot SEE (or discern or understand the things of) the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus was NOT saying that Jesus, the Son of MAN, was a TEACHER who came down from heaven to teach us. Being FROM God means that Jesus was a chosen vessel USED by God, as one whom God anointed, ordained, sent, or commissioned.)

47. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believes on me has everlasting life.

48. I am that BREAD of LIFE. (Or I am the TRUE TEACHING OF God that is coming FROM God down from Heaven to give to you so that whosoever believes my teachings or my words, might have life. You see dear child of God the doctrine Jesus taught was NOT his OWN doctrine or TEACHING, but rather it is the TRUE TEACHING, which CAME OUT FROM the mouth of Yahweh, the Father, come down from heaven to give life to those who BELIEVE. Jesus is saying I am that teaching, I am that true bread come down from heaven. I am the fulfillment of the word come down from heaven. I am that word of Isaiah 55:11, which was spoken out of the mouth of God come down from heaven. I am come down from heaven.)

49. Your fathers did EAT manna (Or physical food raining down from heaven) in the wilderness and are dead.

50. This is the BREAD (Or TRUE TEACHING OF God) which COMES down from heaven (Literally meaning that the true teaching of God is presently descending down from Heaven, which means that Jesus was presently HEARING from God as he was TEACHING the people saying he that BELIEVES on ME shall have eternal life. Jesus obviously had dreams and vision from God as some of the ways he SAW God, as in, UNDERSTANDING what God wanted him to say or do. My point is that no man LITERALLY ATE the physical body of Jesus to receive ETERNAL LIFE in the world to come, but rather they ATE the TEACHING of Jesus come down from heaven by BELIEVING the true teaching of Jesus come down from heaven) that a man may eat thereof, and not die. (God is not forcing any human to believe on his SON Jesus. God is offering for ALL mankind to come to the knowledge of the TRUTH to be saved and receive eternal life in the world to come.)

51. I am the LIVING BREAD which came down from heaven (In other words, Jesus is simply saying he is the manifestation of the WRITTEN WORD of God come to LIFE and the FULFILLMENT of the SCRIPTURES, which came down from heaven, having the TRUE discernment of the ONLY TRUE God, who Jesus clearly identifies as the FATHER): if any man EAT of THIS BREAD, (The TEACHING of Jesus that he is the Messiah) he shall live forever: and the BREAD (Or the TEACHING) that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. (So at the FIRST coming of Jesus, the Son of MAN was commissioned by God to TEACH, or REVEAL that TRUE BREAD come down from heaven which PROPHESIED of a yet coming prophet, whom God would raise up from among the people, and then ANOINT, and then this ANOINTED Son of Man would suffer and die on the cross for the sins of the world and God would raise him up from the DEAD. And whosoever BELIEVES this TEACHING come down from heaven and OBEYS the words of Jesus unto the end will have eternal life in the world to come.)

52. The Jews, therefore, strove among themselves, saying, HOW can this man give us his FLESH to EAT?

53. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except you EAT the FLESH of the Son of MAN, and drink his blood, you have NO LIFE in you.

54. Whoso EATS my flesh, and drinks my BLOOD, has eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

56. He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, dwells in me, and I in him. (Jesus is NOT literally saying that we must EAT his literal flesh and drink his literal blood, but rather that we must EAT, as in BELIEVE that Jesus gave his flesh and blood as a SACRIFICE for our SINS. And if we BELIEVE that Jesus DIED for our sins and was raised from the DEAD, then we have eternal life abiding in us. And Jesus will raise us from the dead if we OBEY his words unto the end.)

57. As the living Father has sent me, and I live BY the Father: so he that eats me, even he shall live BY me. (This is saying that he will LIVE, as in, God will raise him from the DEAD and be given eternal life BY the Father and that if we BELIEVE his words that WE will be raised from the dead and be given eternal life BY Jesus.)

58. THIS IS THAT BREAD which came down from heaven:(WHAT is that bread? In other words, THIS TEACHING that we MUST EAT the FLESH of Jesus and DRINK his BLOOD is the TRUE TEACHING of God that is LIFE to those who EAT this TEACHING come down from heaven. THIS is that TRUE teaching comes down from heaven.) not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eat of THIS BREAD shall live forever. (Again, Jesus is NOT teaching us here that we are to LITERALLY eat his FLESH and drink his BLOOD, but rather we are to eat the TEACHING of the WRITTEN WORD of God in the Old Testament of the PROPHECIES speaking of JESUS as THAT BREAD or that teaching or the ONE whom the scriptures have prophesied to come BEING JESUS. Jesus IS that TRUE BREAD of LIFE come down from heaven. Jesus is the manifestation of the SPOKEN word of the ONE and ONLY TRUE God the FATHER. Jesus instituted the breaking of bread or communion to REMEMBER his DEATH and ALSO his victorious resurrection being BEGOTTEN again from the DEAD and WHY he suffered and died. In John 12:23-33 we learn that if Jesus would not have died on the cross, then he ALONE would become the ONLY Son of God so it was needed for the SEED of Abraham to DIE in order to bring forth MUCH FRUIT.)

59. These things said he in the synagogue, as he TAUGHT in Capernaum.

60. Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is a hard saying; who can hear it? (or who can understand it. Who can believe this teaching if it is literal? Remember that Jesus spoke in parables so that the Jews could hear with their physical ears, but not hear or understand with their spiritual ears. WHY? Because it was PROPHESIED to be so that or in order that God could redeem ALL of mankind and not just his people the Jews. We serve the only WISE God who outwits his enemy. For had Satan know he would NOT have crucified the Lord of glory.)

61. When Jesus knew in himself (Or when Jesus perceived in himself) that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Does this offend you? (or are you also going to leave me because I said you must eat my flesh and drink my blood?)

62. What and if  (Or WHAT and IF I told you also that) you shall see the Son of MAN ascend up where he was before?

63. It is the spirit that quickens (Or it is the eternal Spirit who resurrects from the DEAD); the flesh profits nothing (Or me living and NOT dying for your sins will not profit anything for you. I must GIVE my FLESH and BLOOD for the atonement of sins for without the shedding of blood there is NO forgiveness of sins): the WORDSthat I speak unto you, THEY are spirit, and THEY are LIFE.”

 

Now Jesus is NOT saying that HE, the Son of MAN dwelt up in heaven BEFORE in eternity past and that Son of MAN came down from heaven. But rather, Jesus says that it is SPIRIT that makes alive or the SPIRIT who gives LIFE to all flesh. The CONTEXT teaches us that Jesus is not only speaking of the natural life of the FLESH but being BEGOTTEN AGAIN from the DEAD to ETERNAL LIFE. 

Jesus said in verse 57 that he lives BY that Father. This means that the physical human Jesus was given LIFE by the Father, but it ALSO means that the Father GAVE his Son the divine nature of immortality TO HAVE in himself even as the Father has always had eternal life in himself and ALSO committed to his Son the right or the authority and power to give this same divine nature of eternal life to whomsoever that Son wills.

Jesus is saying that the FLESH is nothing and in doing so Jesus was saying the HE himself was nothing so long as he is ALIVE in the FLESH. The focus on this whole passage of scripture is the TRUE TEACHING which, CAME OUT FROM the MOUTH of God down from heaven referring to the WHOLE word of God. Now there was no New Testament written at this time when Jesus walked as a human being in the days of his FLESH being ANOINTED OF God. 

So in truth, Jesus was speaking of the TEACHING of the Old Testament, which SPOKE of HIM as FULFILLING the prophecies of his FIRST coming to accomplish the task of OVERCOMING the enemy to live without sin a suffer and die a cruel brutal death on the cross for OUR sins and not for ours sins only but also for the sins of the WHOLE world so that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES this true teaching of Jesus come down from heaven to DIE for the sins of the world AND was raised from the DEAD after three days will have eternal life.

Also please remember that Jesus was taught moment by moment by the Holy Spirit showing him things yet to COME. Now WE now know after the fact that the Son of MAN ascended to the Father right after his RESURRECTION after he spoke to Mary Magdalene saying to her NOT to TOUCH him because he has NOT YET ASCENDED to the Father. Then later that same day he appeared to his disciples but Thomas was not there and did not believe that Jesus was alive so he said unless I see him myself and put my own fingers in the holes of his hands and thrust my hand into his side I will not believe, Then the next day Jesus appeared again to his disciple and Thomas was there this time and he told his disciples to TOUCH him proving to them that he was not a ghost or spirit, because a spirit does not have a body of flesh and bone.

So my point is that the Son of MAN ascended up into heaven right after his resurrection and then came back down from heaven to show himself as NOW being an IMMORTAL Son of MAN having a body of FLESH and BONE. Thus Jesus knowing this by the Holy Spirit he said,

 

What and if  (Or what and if I told you also that) you shall SEE the Son of MAN ascend up where he was before?

63. It is the spirit that quickens (Or RAISES the DEAD); the flesh profits nothing (Or me remaining alive in the flesh profits you nothing so for this reason the Son of MAN must suffer and die on the cross and be BEGOTTEN AGAIN to eternal life by the SPIRIT who gives LIFE): the WORDS that I speak unto you, THEY are spirit, and THEY are LIFE.” 

 

Remember that the immediate CONTEXT is speaking of EATING the FLESH and drinking the BLOOD of Jesus, which most all Christians agree is speaking of the DEATH and resurrection of Jesus that we must BELIEVE in order to be saved. If one does NOT eat this TRUE TEACHING come down from heaven BY BELIEVING that Jesus is the Christ, the SON OF the living God then they will REMAIN dead in their sins.

Now there is NO doubt that Jesus came from God, as in, the ORIGIN or SOURCE of his virgin birth was OF God and NOT of man. Jesus knew the scriptures spoke of him being born of a VIRGIN and it is very possible that he even heard Mary and Joseph talking about him. Both Mary and Joseph knew that Joseph was NOT the father of Jesus.

Before we go back to John 1:14 and the WHOLE CONTEXT of John 1:1-18, I feel that this is a good spot to end PRAT TWO of this study called “WHEN DID JESUS BECOME GOD’S ETERNAL SON?2” To continue reading part THREE please click on the link “WHEN DID JESUS BECOME GOD’S ETERNAL SON?3”

And to read ALL the studies that I have showing WHY, I myself, do not believe that the WHOLE word of God teaches us that Jesus pre-existed in eeternity past as God the Son who created everything that exists please read all the studies linked under the heading >>>A LIST OF STUDIES ON THE TRINITY<<< and the heading >>>IS THE DOCTRINE OF ONENESS BIBLICAL?<<<

Thanks for reading and may God bless you richly as you CONTINUE to seek the TRUTH of the WHOLE word of Almighty God.

Your brother in our Lord Jesus Christ,

Brother Mark.

 

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