WHEN DID JESUS
THE ETERNAL SON OF GOD?
Was Jesus ALWAYS the SON OF God in eternity past having NO BEGINNING and NO ending being the ETERNAL Son of God, who was WITH the God at his SIDE, called God the Son, who then came down from heaven and became flesh, but yet remained fully the divine Almighty God himself at the SAME time having TWO natures?
Was Jesus BEGOTTEN to BECOME God's SON in eternity past indeed HAVING a beginning as the ETERNAL SON OF God, who was WITH God at his SIDE, who then came down from heaven and became flesh, but yet remained the fully divine eternal SON OF God at the SAME time having TWO natures?
Was Jesus YAHWEH the Father himself being ALONE with NO one WITH him at his SIDE and Yahweh HIMSELF manifested HIMSELF to become flesh, or become the Son, but yet remained fully the divine eternal Yahweh in the flesh having TWO natures?
These are the three MAIN teachings in the main stream church denomination of today and pretty much throughout the history of the church. And all three basically say that THEIR teaching is the truth and that there is NO OTHER WAY to interpret the scriptures correctly than how they themselves have interpreted the scriptures.
But there are also no less than two other interpretations as to WHEN Jesus BECAME the ETERNAL Son of Almighty God the Father, which we will discuss in a moment.
For now we know one thing for certain and that is that we ALL agree that no mater how many interpretations there may be we know that they ALL cannot possibly have the correct interpretation of the scriptures, because they all teach something DIFFERENT from each other. So which one has the correct interpretation of scripture?
Before you answer that question I want you to CLOSELY consider yet two OTHER interpretations where one of which I myself see as being the MOST SOUND BIBLICAL interpretation, because it considers the WHOLE word of God rather than taking verses out of context and FOCUSING on ONLY ONE side. This brings us to:
Was Jesus begotten OF God to BECOME God's ETERNAL Son when he was born of the VIRGIN Mary having NO earthly Father having TWO natures AT the SAME time?
Was Jesus begotten OF God being BORN as a human CHILD of the VIRGIN Mary having NO earthly Father, and was given the name Jesus to BECOME God's Son at his being BORN of a woman of flesh or human nature, being CALLED both the Son of Man AND the Son of God during the days of his FLESH, and THEN Jesus, AS the Son of MAN being FULLY human having NO divine DURING the days of his FLESH, was BEGOTTEN AGAIN by God AT his resurrection to become God's ETERNAL DIVINE SON being the FIRST born of the DEAD, the FIRST born among many brethren, and the BEGINNING of the creation of God as God' NEW creature, who will INHERIT the worlds to come?
Briefly INTERPRETATION or question #5 says what I myself believe is what the Bible ITSELF as a WHOLE teaches us, which is that Jesus did NOT actually BECOME the ETERNAL DIVINE SON OF God UNTIL AFTER Jesus, as the Son of MAN having the one true divine God DWELLING IN him to empower him, OVERCAME Satan, the enemy of God, by accomplishing the WILL of his God and Father to OBEY all that Almighty God the Father gave his Son to do even to suffer and die a cruel and shameful death on the cross NOT for himself, but for OUR sins, and not only for our sins but ALSO for the sins of the WHOLE world so that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES on Jesus shall be saved.
In other words, Jesus, the Son of MAN, did not actually partake of the DIVINE NATURE of IMMORTALITY until AFTER the cross to become the ETERNAL Son of God when God raised up Jesus again from the dead to never die again, because the Father GAVE the Son of MAN eternal life TO HAVE in himself EVEN AS the Father has always had eternal life in himself.
Please read John 5:26,27.
“For AS the Father HAS life IN himself; SO HAS he GIVEN TO the Son TO HAVE life IN himself;
27. AND has given him authority to execute judgment ALSO ( WHY? Why did God GIVE BOTH of these things to his SON? It was NOT because Jesus was Yahweh himself, and it was NOT because Jesus was ALREADY the ETERNAL DIVINE SON of God, but rather the Bible ITSELF plainly states as the REASON of WHY God gave Jesus ETERNAL LIFE even as the Father has always had eternal life is), BECAUSE he is the Son of MAN.”
Now some Christians try to explain away this verse by saying that Jesus spoke these words in John 5:26,27 BEFORE the cross and resurrection of Jesus and therefore they wrongly conclude that God GAVE Jesus eternal life in eternity past completely ignoring or overlooking the fact that the Bible ITSELF clearly states that the reason of WHY God gave Jesus eternal life and the authority to judge was BECAUSE he was the Son of MAN. They also overlook the fact that Jesus did not WRITE these words, but rather these words of Jesus were written AFTER the fact as a record or recorded written record of what took place. Keep in mind that Jesus knew that he and said that he would suffer and die on the cross BEFORE it actually took place.
Those Christians, who INTERPRET certain verses to mean that Jesus was begotten to become God's SON in eternity past as WHEN the Son of God was GIVEN the divine nature of IMMORTALITY also completely ignore or have overlooked 1 Timothy 6:13-16 and that Jesus came to show us the FATHER to be the one true God AND the he was God's SON.
1 Timothy 6:13-16.
“I give you charge in the sight of God, who quickens (or God WHO gives LIFE to) all things, AND before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
That you KEEP THIS this commandment (or
I charge you before God and his Son Jesus that you KEEP this
instruction or teaching)
spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
And men have certainly SEEN Jesus. So the “WHO” that Jesus came to SHOW us is the ONE true and ONLY Almighty and INVISIBLE God, who ONLY has always possessed IMMORTALITY in himself. And we know that Jesus is NOT the FATHER. Therefore this means that ONLY Yahweh the ETERNAL INVISIBLE SPIRIT has always existed having life in himself, who ALONE is the self existing one without ever having a beginning.
Therefore NO ONE, or no other SEPARATE ETERNAL DIVINE Spirit being, who was WITH the God at his SIDE in the beginning as some Christians CLAIM by dogmatically demanding that the "word" that was WITH God in the beginning in John 1:1 was a separate divine eternal Spirit being, called God the Son, the second person of the trinity, who was WITH God at his SIDE in the beginning, who then created all things.
NO dear child of God, a thousand times NO! The "word" in John 1:1 is the divine EXPRESSION of God expressing the IMAGE that was WITHIN the God when God SPOKE that IMAGE that was WITHIN himself out from his mouth to be brought into existence. Please read the more in depth studies “WHAT DOES JOHN 1:1 TRULY MEAN?” and "JOHN 1:1 THE WORD WAS GOD!" .
But for now please understand that Jesus BECOMING the ETERNAL DIVINE Son of God AT his resurrection does NOT mean that Jesus was not CALLED the Son of God during the days of his FLESH, but rather means that the Bible ITSELF clearly teaches us that Jesus was BEGOTTEN of the Father as God's ETERNAL DIVINE SON, WHEN God raised Jesus, the Son of MAN, from the DEAD and then HIGHLY EXALTED the Son of MAN to BECOME a God or DEITY to rule FOR Yahweh, the SUPREME most high deity, at his side, while his God and Father REST during the SEVENTH 1000 year long DAY of the Lord.
You see dead child of God, the Bible ITSELF teaches us that there are many who are called Gods, but there is only ONE TRUE ALMIGHTY God, who alone is the FATHER, which is THE God over all other Gods including being the God over his Son Jesus, whom he himself highly exalted to become a God. Please read the studies “THERE IS BUT ONE GOD!” and “OUR GOD IS ONE!”, for all the scriptures that prove that Jesus is a God, who is under and subject to HIS God, Almighty God, the FATHER.
But for now please understand and KNOW that I ALSO teach that Jesus was BORN of a VIRGIN without having an earthly father like every other human being. So certainly Jesus was UNIQUELY born OF God, who was his FATHER. However this does NOT mean that Almighty God mated with Mary to conceive a CHILD in the manner that humans mate bearing children. In other words, Almighty God BEING the Father of Jesus does NOT dogmatically demand that this means the Jesus possessed a DIVINE NATURE during the days of his FLESH.
Rather God SPOKE his WORD and the spoken saying of God was CONCEIVED in the womb of the virgin Mary to be born as a male CHILD, who was given the NAME Jesus, and was said by the angel Gabriel that this holy thing in Mary's womb would be CALLED the Son of the highest and the Son of God. John 1:14 clearly teaches us that the “word” was made FLESH and NOT that the word was made FLESH and yet REMAINED fully the DIVINE eternal God at the same time having TWO NATURES, on divine and the other human.
There are no SCRIPTURES that teach us that Jesus had TWO natures, but rather this is ONLY a teaching of man to TRY and reconcile that Jesus is called God in the NEW Testament and ONLY Yahweh was God in the OLD Testament. Again please read the above two studies teaching that there is but ONE God, as in, there is only ONE, who has ALWAYS been the one true divine eternal Spirit having life in himself being alone and by himself the source and creator of ALL that exists.
Now I agree that during the ministry of Jesus, which was during the days of his FLESH BEFORE the cross, that he was CALLED the SON OF God and that the Bible itself strongly commands us that we MUST believe in BOTH the Father AND the SON. And if we do NOT have the SON, then we do NOT have the Father either. But I do NOT agree that the Bible ITSELF teaches us anywhere that Jesus had a DIVINE NATURE during the days of his FLESH.
This is adding one's OWN personal interpretation to the word of God, with no scriptures to support this man-made teaching. Yes they quote scriptures to TRY and support what they teach, but in truth it is only their own personal INTERPRETATION of those scriptures that they dogmatically demand is the ONLY way that those verse can be interpreted.
Now I do indeed believe and teach that AFTER the cross Jesus was GIVEN the divine nature of immortality TO HAVE in himself even AS the Father has always has eternal life IN himself. And therefore AFTER the cross Yahweh highly exalted his Son to became a God under himself and thus Jesus BECAME DEITY AFTER the cross.
Jesus is the ONLY name under heaven given among men whereby we MUST be saved. Jesus is the ONLY WAY to the Father so WITHOUT faith in the SON OF God there is NO eternal life in the world to come. And part of that faith, which we must believe, is that Jesus was BORN AGAIN from the DEAD to become the FIRST begotten among many brethren. I will explain this further in a moment.
Now in many of my studies I do indeed favor and even focus on teaching the HUMANITY of Jesus and I am at times accused of teaching that Jesus is just a MERE MAN like every other human being, but I assure you that this is NOT what I teach.
Some Christians become OFFENDED by my emphasizing the humanity of Jesus, but I do so for a very vital and important reason, and that is so that, or in order that Christians will SEE and truly understand who they ARE in Jesus Christ. That they have the SAME anointing dwelling IN them that Jesus had dwelling IN him to empower him to overcome sin. TOO many times I have heard Christians say that ONLY Jesus can live without sin, or ONLY Jesus can heal the sick, because he was fully God or the SON OF God and WE are only HUMAN.
This is WHY I emphasize that Jesus was HUMAN also as we are human and that he was able to heal people NOT because he was God himself in the flesh, NOR because he was the SON OF Almighty God, but rather because Jesus was the Son of MAN, who was ANOINTED BY God and that the anointing dwelling IN him EMPOWERED Jesus to heal the sick AND to live his life without sin.
Please read the study “JESUS THE CHRIST” for all the verses that clearly teach us that Jesus could do NOTHING OF himself and that it was the Father dwelling IN Jesus, the Son of MAN, who actually healed the sick. And NOW that very SAME ANOINTING dwells IN US as believers in Jesus to EMPOWER US to do the SAME works of healing, casting out devils, raising the dead and yes EVEN living our lives free from sin. Also please read the study "HOW YOU CAN LIVE YOUR LIFE FREE FROM SIN!".
But for now let us finish this study in God's word to see WHEN the Bible ITSELF teaches us that the SON of God was BEGOTTEN as God's ETERNAL DIVINE SON where the Son of MAN was granted to partake of the DIVINE nature of IMMORTALITY to become DEITY to rule for Yahweh.
Please read Acts 13:32-41 where we can clearly see in SIMPLICITY that Jesus was BEGOTTEN of God on a certain DAY in time and that certain day in time ACCORDING to the Bible ITSELF was AT the RESURRECTION of the Son of MAN.
“And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the PROMISE which was made unto the fathers,
has FULFILLED the same
unto us their children (and
HOW did God FULFILL the scripture of promise of prophecy being spoken
THAT he has RAISED
UP Jesus AGAIN;
IT is also WRITTEN in the second psalm,
You are my Son, THIS
I BEGOTTEN you.
some Christians argue and say that this teaching or doctrine of Jesus
becoming the Son of God AT his RESURRECTION is based upon ONE verse
only here in Acts 13:33 and make the CLAIM that the term this day is
speaking of ETERNITY for there is no time with God. But the writer of
the book of Acts clearly states that the prophecy
written in Psalms chapter 2 has God FULFILLED IN THAT he has RAISED
UP or has BEGOTTEN Jesus from the DEAD. The CONTEXT clearly shows
this fulfillment of Psalms 2 being the resurrection by the bringing
out other prophecies being FULFILLED AT the RESURRECTION of
Jesus, the Son of MAN, declared that he would suffer and die on the cross and after three days would be raised from the dead, but no one, not even his disciples, truly understood and believed his words until AFTER they WITNESSED his RESURRECTION by Jesus showing himself alive by many infallible proofs for forty days AFTER Jesus descended BACK down from heaven. Now no one actually witnesses the event of Jesus being raised from the dead while it was happening, but rather they became witnesses to the TRUTH that Jesus was raised from the dead when Jesus SHOWED himself alive by many infallible proofs for forty days after Jesus was BEGOTTEN from the DEAD to be GIVEN the divine nature of ETERNAL LIFE by his God and Father.
Jesus being BEGOTTEN from the DEAD is the heart of the gospel. This is what the Bible itself teaches us to believe in order to be SAVED. This is what sets Christianity apart from ALL other faiths. Many other religions believe that Jesus existed, but they do NOT believe that he was BEGOTTEN FROM THE DEAD. They do NOT believe that Jesus is DEITY or God. And had Satan KNOWN he would NOT have crucified that innocent pure Lamb of God, the Son of MAN, who offered himself without spot THROUGH the ETERNAL SPIRIT.
I teach that Jesus is DEITY, but NOT in the way that the main stream Orthodox churches teach. Rather I teach what the Bible ITSELF teaches and that is that Jesus became deity AFTER the cross, after he OVERCAME.
I teach that Jesus is the DIVINE Son of God, but NOT in the same way that the main stream Orthodox church denominations teach. Rather I teach what the Bible ITSELF teaches, which is that Jesus was GIVEN the divine nature of IMMORTALITY to HAVE eternal life in himself even as Yahweh the Father has always had like in himself AFTER the cross, after he OVERCAME.
I teach that Jesus IS God, but NOT in the way that the main stream Orthodox denominational churches teach. Rather I teach what the Bible ITSELF teaches, and that is that Yahweh the Father HIGHLY EXALTED his Son Jesus to BECOME a God who is UNDER and SUBJECT to Yahweh the Father AFTER the cross, after Jesus OVERCAME as the Son of MAN having been ANOINTED or EMPOWERED by the eternal Spirit dwelling IN him.
And the REASON I teach only what the Bible ITSELF teaches is so that YOU can see and understand that the SAME anointing who dwelt IN Jesus NOW dwells IN YOU dear child of God to EMPOWER YOU to live without sin and do the SAME works that the Father himself did through the human hands of his Son Jesus.
Let us now take a look at Hebrews 1:1-6 where we find the writer of Hebrews COMPARING Jesus with the angels. Remember as you read these verses that the FIRST estate, or the FIRST birth of Jesus was being made a little LOWER than the angels, but NOW after the cross, after Jesus was born AGAIN from the DEAD, he has OBTAINED a name higher or more excellent than the angels by INHERITANCE.
“God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2. Has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he has appointed HEIR of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;(the word “by” here also means FOR and for the sake of. So then, by the context God himself created the worlds FOR and FOR the SAKE OF Jesus to INHERIT. And we are JOINT heirs with Jesus, but God anointed or ordained him ABOVE all his fellows or brothers and sisters. Jesus is is God's King of kings. We will become kings after we overcome, but Jesus is our King over us and Yahweh is THE King over Jesus. Jesus was highly exalted to become God's King second only to Yahweh himself. Jesus INHERITED all things by BECOMING God's eternal divine Son.)
3. Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, WHEN he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4 . Being MADE so much BETTER than the angels, as he has BY inheritance OBTAINED a MORE EXCELLENT name than they. (In other words, it was prophesied that Jesus word obtain a more excellent name that the angels as his INHERITANCE)
5. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, You are my Son, THIS DAY have I begotten you? And again, I WILL BE to him a Father, and HE SHALL be to me a Son?
6. And again (speaking of the second coming of Jesus), when he brings in the FIRST BEGOTTEN into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.”
Please notice that this verse says I WILL BE to him a Father and he SHALL BE to me a Son, which clearly and plainly teaches us that Psalm 2 is a prophecy of a future day, as THE day in time of, WHEN Jesus SHALL BECOME the SON OF God and Yahweh SHALL BECOME his Father. And that day was fulfilled at the cross WHEN God raise Jesus again from the DEAD. Therefore to ME it is a definite contradiction to God's word to dogmatically demand that the SON OF God has ALWAYS existed or even that the SON OF God was begotten of God in eternity past BEFORE God created the world and mankind.
You see dear child of God it makes NO sense for God to PROPHESY of his yet COMING SON, if so be, his Son ALREADY preexisted WITH him at his SIDE in eternity past as some claim.
Also the FIRST BEGOTTEN here does NOT mean the Jesus was the first begotten of every creature BEFORE the creation of the world and that God brought his first begotten into the world to be born of the virgin Mary, as God's DIVINE ETERNAL Son, having TWO natures, because this leaves NO place for the scripture to be fulfilled where Jesus was made a little LOWER than the angels BEFORE the Son of MAN was highly exalted and given the right to INHERIT the world to come.
Please read Hebrews 2:3-14.
“How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4. God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
5. For unto the angels has he NOT put in subjection the world TO COME, whereof we speak.
6. But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is MAN, that you are mindful of him? or the son of MAN, that you visit him?
7. You made him (Jesus, and all of man or mankind) a little LOWER than the angels;(speaking of the days of his FLESH) you crowned him with glory and honor, and did set him over the works of your hands:(Speaking of AFTER Jesus OVERCAME even to suffer and die on the cross a cruel DEATH for our sins)
8. You have put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
9. But WE (the Apostles and disciples of Jesus who were eyewitnesses said WE) see Jesus, who was made a little LOWER than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. (To ME this agrees with Philippians 2:6,7 where the FORM in which Jesus WAS before that FORM became FLESH was indeed DIVINE, but then the FORM stripped SELF or stripped ITSELF translated as himself form ALL it's translated as his DIVINE nature to take on HUMAN NATURE. Now that FORM in which Jesus preexisted was the WORD that was WITHIN the God as God's THOUGHT or IMAGE which God SPOKE into existence to become FLESH or HUMAN. What God SPEAKS becomes into existence. God SPOKE his WORD and God's word became a human being, the Son of MAN who was prophesied to be called the Son of God. Yahweh who quickens or makes live again the DEAD, CALLS things that are not yet as though they already are. Romans 4:17)
10. For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing MANY SONS unto GLORY, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. (Jesus is the CAPTAIN of our salvation, the FIRST BORN of every creature, the FIRST BORN from the DEAD, that he might become the FIRST fruit on MANY brethren or MANY sons of God)
11. For both he that sanctifies and they who are sanctified are all of ONE: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them BRETHREN,
12. Saying, I will declare your name unto MY BRETHREN, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto you.
13. And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God has given me.
14. For as much then AS the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he ALSO HIMSELF LIKEWISE took part of the SAME; that (or so that) through DEATH he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;”
So then, clearly the Bible itself teaches us that DURING the days of his FLESH is the “when” that Jesus was made a little LOWER than the angels and it was only AFTER Jesus was BEGOTTEN from the DEAD that Jesus inherited a more excellent name than the angels and was made BETTER than the angels, and was given the right to JUDGE the fallen angels and rule over ALL the angels inheriting the worlds to come.
Therefore to dogmatically demand that Jesus was the DIVINE ETERNAL Son of God DURING the days of his FLESH is to ALSO say that the DIVINE ETERNAL SON of God is LOWER and inferior to the ANGELS.
No dear child of God, the DIVINE ETERNAL SON of God OBTAINED a more excellent name that the angel to INHERIT the worlds to come and the JUDGE the angles who sinned. But Jesus, as the Son of MAN, DURING the days of his FLESH was indeed made LOWER or inferior to the angels, and it was only AFTER Jesus, the Son of MAN overcame that God HIGHLY EXALTED him to become a God under Yahweh to rule for Yahweh in the worlds to come to rule OVER the angels and all belongs to Yahweh.
The truth of the matter is that Philippians 2:6-11 teaches us that whatever FORM Jesus was BEFORE that DIVINE FORM became FLESH that “he” put off, laid aside, and stripped “himself” of “his” DIVINE NATURE to take on HUMAN NATURE. And it was the TRANSLATORS who translated the Greek pronoun to “he” and “himself”, when that same Greek word also mean “IT” and “ITSELF”.
But yet some Christians do their best to REASON AWAY this passage of scripture as well to cling to their belief that Jesus HAD to be either Yahweh HIMSELF in the flesh or the ETERNAL DIVINE Son in the flesh having TWO natures, one DIVINE and one human at the SAME time during the days of his FLESH in order to be able to SAVE us.
However, the clear, plain, and simple word of God in John 1:14 says that the “word”, the spoken SAYING of God, was made FLESH and NOT that the Son of God became flesh and yet remained the fully divine Yahweh himself having TWO nature at the SAME time.
And again I agree that Hebrews 2:14 says that “he” also “himself” likewise took part of the SAME nature of FLESH that all the children of God have and that it SEEMS because of these personal pronouns that Jesus preexisted as God's SON who then stripped HIMSELF of all HIS divine nature to take on HUMAN nature. But in truth the Greek pronoun TRANSLATED as he and himself should have been translated as “IT” and “ITSELF”.
We know that WE are not divine and human at the same time and the Bible ITSELF clearly states that Jesus had the SAME NATURE as WE have.
I know that at times on the surface it sounds as if some verses are saying that Jesus HIMSELF became FLESH taking part of the SAME nature of FLESH so that through DEATH he might destroy the power of death, which is the devil, because of the pronouns that were TRANSLATED as “he” and “himself”. And this is why we must interpret all verses in the light of the whole word of God, which requires at times to see what the ORIGINAL text says.
But when Christians like myself do this some Christians accuse us of trying to change God's word to fit our own private interpretation. What or WHY would we do that? So we can be persecuted by those in the main stream churches? Do you think we enjoy being called false teachers and heretics?
NO! We stand UP for the TRUTH despite the persecution we receive, because we want you to SEE and UNDERSTAND the POWER who now DWELLS IN YOU! Not just to simply have HEAD knowledge of the greater one dwelling in you, but rather to stir you up to STOP making EXCUSES saying, ONLY Jesus can live without sin and ONLY Jesus can heal the sick, BECAUSE HE was Yahweh HIMSELF in the flesh having TWO natures at the SAME time.
You will never live without sin UNTIL you BELIEVE than you CAN and WILL live without sin. And as long as you believe that ONLY Jesus can live without sin BECAUSE HE was Yahweh himself in the flesh and you are only HUMAN, then you will never TRULY believe that Jesus overcame sin THROUGH the power of the Holy Spirit DWELLING IN him. That is what the ANOINTING means. That is what being SENT by God means. The word TRANSLATED as sent means COMMISSION.
Jesus was COMMISSIONED by God, which means that Jesus was ANOINTED or EMPOWERED by God to accomplish the task that Yahweh asked him to do. Jesus was sent OUT into the world.
Please read John 17:18.
"AS you have SENT me into the world (or AS IN the SAME MANNER in which YOU sent ME into the world), EVEN SO have I ALSO SENT them INTO the world."
Now we KNOW that WE were NOT sent into the world bey Jesus sending us DOWN out of heaven down INTO the world, so being sent INTO the world obviously means being sent OUT into the world. So then HOW did Jesus send his disciples OUT into the world to preach the gospel? Did Jesus send them OUT into the world POWERLESS?
No his did NOT, but rather Jesus specifically gave them commandment to REMAIN in Jerusalem UNTIL they be ENDUED WITH POWER from on High. Please read Acts 1:4,5.
"And, being assembled together with them, COMMANDED them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the PROMISE of the Father, which, said he, you have heard of me. (when I taught you this in John chapters 14 through 16 that I go to prepare a PLACE FOR YOU so that where I am right now you shall be. The Holy Spirit dwells WITH you now but after I go to the cross and ascend to my Father he will be me the authority to baptize YOU in the Holy Spirit to be ENDUED with POWER from on High. The place Jesus prepared for us was a cleansed vessel for the Holy Spirit to dwell in. Please read the study "THE POWER AND THE AUTHORITY OF THE BELIEVER!", which I originally named "Are you dwelling in your mansion yet?")
5. For John truly baptized with water; but you shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."
Now please read Luke 24:49.
"And, behold, I send the PROMISE of my Father UPON you: but tarry (or WAIT) you in the city of Jerusalem, UNTIL you ENDUED with POWER from on high."
And WHEN did the eternal Spirit come UPON Jesus to REMAIN? It was AT his BAPTISM by John being submersed in the water of the river Jordan. This is WHEN Jesus BEGAN his ministry to PREACH God's word as the ANOINTED OF God. Jesus was ENDUED with POWER from on High to DWELL IN him. And this is HOW Jesus did the WORKS men saw him do. God was WITH Jesus by dwell IN Jesus as opposed to Jesus BEING Yahweh himself. Christ came in the flesh, as in, Christ DWELT IN the flesh. The word Christ means the ANOINTING. So Christ coming in the flesh means that the ANOINTING came to DWELL IN the flesh.
We all agree that John 1:14 says that the “word” was made FLESH, which in the context of Hebrews 2:14 means that Jesus was a MORTAL human being, who could suffer DEATH for HOW can an IMMORTAL DIVINE being DIE on the cross. And please do not try and sell your man-made THEORY to me that Jesus had TWO NATURES and it was only his HUMAN nature that DIED, because you have NO SCRIPTURES to prove your man-made theory. WHERE in the Bible ITSELF does it ever say that Jesus had TWO NATURES at the SAME time?
We also know from Numbers 23:19 that God himself is NOT a MAN and neither is God or Yahweh himself the Son OF MAN. Now I myself believe that the Bible itself teaches us that Yahweh HIMSELF became the Son of MAN, but NOT in the WAY that is taught by Oneness believers, who wrong teach that Jesus IS the Father. Please read the study "WHAT DOES GOD INCARNATE MEAN?" where I give and in depth study of HOW Yahweh HIMSELF literally BECOMES everything he creates by SPEAKING ALL things into existence where they only existed before WITHIN himself as a IMAGE that he desired to bring forth into existence. The SPOKEN word of God BECAME FLESH.
We know that what God creates does NOT REMAIN the fully DIVINE Yahweh so why dogmatically demand that Jesus MUST without fail be the fully DIVINE Yahweh in the flesh or the ETERNAL DIVINE SON OF God having TWO NATURES in order to be saved? Please also read the study “PHILIPPIANS 2:6-A TRINITARIAN DILEMMA!” for many different translations of this verse. But for now let us continue with this study in God's word by reading Numbers 23:19 where we can clearly see that Yahweh himself is NOT a MAN neither the Son of MAN.
“God is NOT a MAN, that he should lie; neither (is God) the SON of MAN, that he should repent: has he (Yahweh) said, and shall he not do it? or has he (Yahweh) spoken, and shall he not make it good?”
So then, clearly seeing that Jesus is called the “Son of MAN” 88 times in the NEW Testament, and that Jesus is called a “MAN” 19 times, then it would be a contradiction to God's word to dogmatically demand that Jesus during the days of his FLESH is Yahweh HIMSELF in the FLESH being fully God and fully a MAN at the SAME time having TWO NATURES, one divine and one human. Nor do we have any scriptural foundation to say that Jesus is half man and have God.
This theory is based only on human logic that since a human child bears BOTH the DNA of the mother AND the father, then Jesus was born with the HUMAN nature of his mother and the DIVINE nature of Almighty God his Father. There are NO scriptures to back up this man-made theory. Yahweh did NOT have intercourse with the virgin Mary as the way in which Jesus was conceived in the womb of Mary. Jesus was conceived in the womb of Mary BY the SPOKEN WORD of Yahweh to be born a HUMAN being, whom Yahweh would then ANOINT or ENDUE with POWER from on High at his baptism, when the time came for Jesus to PREACH the gospel and suffer and die a cruel death on the cross for the sins of the world.
Now there is absolutely NO doubt that Jesus was called BOTH the Son of MAN and the Son of God during the days of his FLESH, but in no way does this demand that Jesus has TWO NATURES one human and one divine at the SAME time. Jesus was brought into existence in the womb of the virgin Mary BY the SPOKE WORD of Almighty God, and human children are born by the father MATING with the mother.
The Catholic church uses this same human logic to wrongly teach that Mary is the MOTHER OF God. No! Mary is the mother of the human CHILD, who was given the name Jesus and who was CALLED the SON OF God, whom the Almighty God the Father highly exalted to BECOME a God to rule FOR Yahweh during Yahweh's 1000 year long day of REST.
John 1:14 states that the word was made FLESH and that is what it means. To say otherwise and teach that Jesus had a DIVINE nature DURING the days of his FLESH is to ADD one's own personal INTERPRETATION to God's word. Again WHERE are the scriptures that teach us that Jesus had TWO natures, one divine and the other human, AT the SAME time during the days of his FLESH?
The ONLY verse in the entire Bible where the phrase “DIVINE NATURE” is used is in 2 Peter 1:14, which speaks of US partaking of the divine nature WHEN WE are glorified of the Father in the world yet to come. We are indeed CALLED the sons and daughters of God NOW in this present world, but in truth we do not actually become God's eternal sons and daughters UNTIL we are found FAITHFUL to overcome unto the END. We have eternal life abiding in us now, but we do NOT actually receive or OBTAIN our INHERITED reward of eternal life, until the world to come at the second coming of Jesus.
And the end is speaking of when one dies physically, if so be, one should dies physically before the second coming of Jesus, which will become the end, if so be, we remain alive unto the coming of Jesus. So in truth we are BECOMING the eternal the sons and daughters of God so long as we are continuing to follow and obey the leading of the Holy Spirit and the teachings of Jesus under the NEW covenant unto the END.
Please read 2 Peter 1:14.
“Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these YOU (speaking of faithful Christians unto the end) might be partakers of the DIVINE NATURE, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.”
So then, the DIVINE NATURE is being immortal having eternal life. The DIVINE nature of Almighty God is his IMMORTAL NATURE always having eternal life in himself.
To say this another way, DIVINE nature = IMMORTAL nature or having eternal life whether always possessing divine nature or being given divine nature by the eternal divine Spirit Almighty God the Father. Jesus was GIVEN the divine nature of immortality by his God and Father Yahweh, the ONLY one who has always possessed immortality in himself. This is WHY Jesus calls that Father the ONE TRUE God in John 17:3 where Jesus is praying TO the FATHER.
"And this is life eternal, that they might know YOU (FATHER) the ONLY TRUE God, AND (that they may know me your SON) Jesus Christ, whom YOU have sent (or whom YOU YOURSELF have ANOINTED with POWER to accomplish the task that you gave me to do)."
Again we learn in 1 Timothy 6:13-16 that there is only ONE, who has always had the divine nature of immortality, who is the FATHER, the eternal invisible Spirit. And we have already learned from John 5:26,27 that Jesus was GIVEN life to HAVE in himself even AS the Father HAS life in himself, BECAUSE he was the Son of MAN. Not because he was God or the Son OF God, but rather because he was the Son of MAN.
Now some may be still yet struggling with the pronouns “he” and “himself” in Philippians 2:6, which makes it SEEM as if Jesus preexisted as a separate divine eternal Spirit being called the Son of God or named the “Word” who then stripped “himself” of all his divine nature to take on HUMAN nature.
But when we read Isaiah about the “word” we see the pronoun “IT” being used. Please read Isaiah 55:8-11.
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the LORD.
9. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10. For as the RAIN COME DOWN, and the snow FROM HEAVEN, and returns not thither, but waters the earth, and makes it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11. So shall my WORD be that goes forth out of my MOUTH: IT (Yahweh's SPOKEN word out of his MOUTH) shall not return unto me void, but IT (Yahweh's SPOKEN word out of his MOUTH)shall accomplish that which I please, and IT (Yahweh's SPOKEN word out of his MOUTH) shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent IT. (Yahweh's SPOKEN word out of his MOUTH)”
Now the LITERAL translation of Isaiah 55:11 reads,
“And HE IS BECOMING WORD of me which HE (WORD of me) is going forth from MOUTH of me , not to me HE (WORD of me which came forth OUT FROM mouth of me) is returning empty but rather HE (WORD of me) does which I DESIRE and HE (WORD of me) prosper which I sent HIM (WORD of me which came forth out from mouth of me).”
Jesus said OF himself that he came forth OUT FROM God and Jesus knew that the scriptures spoke of him.
"These things have I spoken unto you in PROVERBS: but the time comes, when I shall no more speak unto you in PROVERBS, but I shall show you plainly of the Father.26. At that day you shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
27. For the Father himself loves you, BECAUSE you have loved me, and (BECAUSE you) have believed that I CAME OUT FROM God.
28. I came forth from the Father (or as we just learned from Isaiah 55:11 that Jesus came forth from Yahweh AS the SPOKEN WORD COMING OUT FROM the MOUTH of God, which AGREES with John 1:1-14 where the logos or the SPOKEN SAYING of God became FLESH and dwelt among us.), and am come into the world (by the SPOKEN WORD coming out of the MOUTH of Yahweh coming into the world and being SENT down from heaven into the word through the Angel Gabriel to speak forth to the virgin Mary to be CONCEIVED in the womb of Mary to be born as a HUMAN CHILD): again, I leave the world, and go to the Father."
Jesus knew that the scriptures spoke of him so he knew the PROPHECIES of both his first and second comings. Jesus knew was born of a virgin and he knew he would be crucified on the cross. He knew he would be BEGOTTEN from the DEAD and leave the world to go the the Father, because Jesus knew that the scriptures spoke of HIM.
My point is that the pronoun referring to the “logos”, the SPOKEN word, or spoken SAYING of God, which was TRANSLATED as “he” and “himself” can EQUALLY be translated as “IT” and “ITSELF” laid aside, put off or stripped “ITSELF” of “IT'S divine nature to take on HUMAN nature.
In other words, the logos or the word of God, or the FORM of God can be translated as IT or HE and the translators chose to translate IT as HE in Philippians 2:6,7 and in Hebrews 2:14, because Jesus was the WORD made to become FLESH. But in truth Jesus was NOT the word made flesh, until AFTER the word or the spoken SAYING of God BECAME flesh and was given the name Jesus.
To say this another way, Jesus preexisted as the IMAGE that was WITH the God in the beginning and that IMAGE that was WITHING God WAS a GOD, whom Yahweh himself would CREATE or bring FORTH into existence BY speaking forth his word out from his MOUTH to become FLESH and HUMAN CHILD being without any DIVINE NATURE. BUT AFTER that CHILD grew and learned to refuse the evil and chose then good Yahweh ANOINTED the MAN Jesus to accomplish the task of dying of the cross for the sins of the world.
So then, AFTER the baptism of Jesus the DIVINE GODHEAD came to DWELL IN the human Jesus to ENDUE the Son of MAN with POWER from on High. Jesus was still not yet DIVINE, but rather the one true divine God DWELT IN Jesus to EMPOWER the Son of Man to overcome the enemy by doing all the WILL of his God and Father even to suffer and die on the cross for the sins of the world.
It was only AFTER the Son of MAN overcame that Jesus was HIGHLY EXALTED to BECOME DEITY by being GIVEN the DIVINE NATURE of IMMORTALITY by Yahweh the Father.
To ME there is NO doubt that John 1:15 clearly and plainly STATES that the “word” was made FLESH and NOT “HE”, God the Son, or the Son of God, was made FLESH, but rather the “HE” is the SPOKEN WORD OF God was made to become flesh, and if the pronouns were consistently translated as "IT" and "ITSELF", then we all would be in agreement as to WHEN Jesus was BEGOTTEN of the Father and know that the WORD stripped "ITSELF" of ALL "ITS" divine nature to take on HUMAN nature. Again please read the study "PHILIPPIANS 2:6-A TRINITARIAN DILEMMA!".
What does the Bible ITSELF say was made flesh?
Does John 1:14 say that God the Son was made flesh?
Does John 1:14 say that Jesus was made flesh?
Does John 1:14 say that the Son of God was made flesh?
Does John 1:14 say that the second person of the trinity became flesh?
Does John 1:14 say that an eternal divine Spirit being named the Word was made flesh?
WHAT DOES John 1:14 specifically state in simplicity without reading any interpretation into this verse? WHAT does the Bible ITSELF specifically state was made flesh in John 1:14?
Simply READ what the Bible ITSELF says was made flesh?
The Bible itself simple says that the “WORD” was made flesh!
“And the Word (the “logos”) was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
So then, WHAT is the “WORD”?
Is the “word” a divine eternal Spirit being, who was WITH THE God at his SIDE, who was named the Word having his OWN will?
This is what some Christians INTERPRET or theorize with no scriptural support. These Christians claim that God created his WORD and then the Word as a separate divine eternal Spirit being, who was WITH Yahweh at his SIDE named the Word, created everything else.
Other Christians say NO absolutely NOT! And rather say that the Word was NOT created, but always existed WITH the God at his SIDE being called God the Son the second person of the trinity, and God created everything BY his Word, who was his ETERNAL SON. Which again they, speaking of trinity believers, have concluded to mean that the Word was a separate divine eternal Spirit person or being, who was God and who was WITH God at his side, being God the Son the second person of the trinity, who created all things.
But what does the Bible ITSELF teach us?
The Bible itself simply states that the word was WITH the God. and NOT that the word was with the God at his SIDE. Please read the study "John 1:1 The Word WAS God!" for a more in depth study showing other translations and the literal meaning of "WITH" in the original text.
The Bible itself does NOT say that the word was a separate person of the Godhead called God the Son. The phrase "God the Son" is not found anywhere in the entire Bible. We will go deeper in a moment what the phrase the “WORD was WITH God” actually means, and what the Bible ITSELF truly means, when is says the God created all things “BY” his word.
Just briefly for now the Greek word “dia” also means FOR and FOR the SAKE OF. Thus this Greek word “dia” could have just as easily been translated as FOR him in Hebrews 1:2 as opposed to being translated as BY him.
“Has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he (Yahweh the Father) has appointed HEIR of all things, by (which should have been translated as FOR or FOR the SAKE OF) whom also he (Yahweh himself ALONE and by himself according to Isaiah 44:24) made the worlds;”
“Thus says the LORD, your redeemer, and he that formed you from the womb (a PROPHECY of Jesus), I am the LORD (or I am Yahweh himself) that MAKES ALL all things (or CREATES ALL THINGS); that stretcheth forth the heavens ALONE; that spreadeth abroad the earth BY MYSELF;”
Yahweh FORMED Jesus is the womb of the virgin Mary by his SPOKEN word that came forth out from God's MOUTH. Jesus knew that this scripture as with many many other scriptures spoke of HIM. Jesus knew that he came forth out from God's mouth. Jesus knew that he was from above being BORN from above.
Even the very CONTEXT of Hebrews 1:2 teaches us that God appointed his Son to INHERIT the all, so to ME it makes more sense that the worlds were created FOR or FOR the SAKE OF him rather than BY him. The disciples of Jesus knew that BY the logos or BY the spoken WORD of God was HOW God created all things. And for this reason Jesus is called the WORD in Revelation 19:13.
"And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his NAME is called The Word of God."
His NAME was called the word, because the word of God SPOKE of Jesus. His name is CALLED the word, because Jesus is the FULFILLMENT OF the word of God. Yahweh's SPOKEN word was WRITTEN and PROPHESIED in the world by the prophets of God to BECOME FLESH, a CHILD shall be BORN. So Jesus did not create all things, but rather Yahweh himself ALONE and BY himself created all things by way of SPEAKING the IMAGE that was WITHIN him out from his MOUTH and then the living word, which is SPIRIT the very LIFE of Yahweh himself performed the THOUGHTS of Yahweh. Please read the study “DOES EPHESIANS 3:9-11 TEACH US THAT JESUS CREATED ALL THINGS?”
But for now I want to point out that SOME Christians, who teach that the Word was WITH the God and he created all things BY his Word go on to say that the Word IS Jesus, which is fine because the Word was made to become FLESH and that human being born of the virgin Mary, who is the Son of MAN, we all agree IS Jesus.
However, the Bible ITSELF does NOT say, “And Jesus was made flesh”, but rather the word of TRUTH simple says, and the WORD was made flesh. Thus JESUS himself was NOT with God at his side in the beginning as a separate divine eternal Spirit being that created all things. The Bible does NOT say that the SON was made flesh, but rather states that the "LOGOS" translated as the Word was made flesh. And it was the SPOKEN word out from Yahweh's very OWN mouth as the HOW that Yahweh himself alone created all things INCLUDING creating his Son Jesus.
So again WHAT is the Word? Or more precisely what is the WORD? What is the "logos"? Or simply put what is the word having NO capital "W" that was capitalized by the TRANSLATORS by their own BIAS of the doctrine of the trinity.?
This time rather than listening to the THEORIES of theologians why not we simply allow the Bible itself to teach us what the “WORD” truly is in the LIGHT of the whole word of God.
Let us look up the Greek word in the original text that is translated as “Word” here in the King James Version of the Bible and literally nearly all other translations. Now I say nearly all other translations, but there are still a few translations that correctly translate this Greek word as “word” rather than “Word” with a capital “W”, which to me influences the reader to be deceived as to what the word “word” truly means based upon what the whole word of God teaches us.
To say this another way some Christians read and understand John 1:14, “the word was made flesh” to mean that JESUS was made flesh, but this is not what the clear, plain, and simple word of truth teaches us.
Here is what the New Strong's Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible defines the Greek word “logos” as meaning. It is Strong's number 3056 and it is defined as; something SAID, including THOUGHT. It is translated 218 times as "word" NOT being capitalized, 50 times as SAYING, 8 times as account, as in, a record of speech recorded as written words, 8 times as SPEECH, 7 times as "Word" capitalized to signify Christ as the divine EXPRESSION that refers to Jesus the Christ.
The Bible concordance goes on to say that “logos” denotes the EXPRESSION of THOUGHT and NOT the mere name of an object, as in, the embodying a conception or idea.
And the concordance gives an example of this expression of thought found in Luke 7:7, where a centurion is telling Jesus to simply SPEAK or SAY the WORD and my servant will be healed.
“Wherefore neither thought I myself worthy to come unto you: but SAY in a WORD, and my servant shall be healed.”
So the centurion was asking Jesus to simply SPEAK a WORD saying that his servant is healed and I know that my servant will be healed. My point is this; out of 207 times that the Greek word “logos” is used in the New Testament it is ALWAYS translated as meaning SPEECH, the spoken word of God, and SAYING of God, something that is SPOKEN each and every time, except for the 7 times when it is personified as being Jesus Christ, the SON OF God, where the translators themselves chose to translate the Greek word “Logos” as the “Word”.
And also please keep in mind that in the original text these 7 occurrences of the Greek word “logos” were NOT capitalized. In other words, the Greek word “logos” was translated by Bible theologians as “Word” meaning SPEECH, something SAID, a thought that was WITHIN, which is then SPOKEN, but BECAUSE it is capitalized it deceives the reader to believe that the "word" or logos was a SEPARATE divine eternal Spirit being who was WITH the God at his SIDE.
In other words, all honest Bible scholars must agree that the Greek word "logos" in the original text that was correctly translated as "word" meaning SPEECH, something SAID, something SPOKEN or the SAYING of God 200 times SHOULD have been translation these other 7 times as "word" also NOT being capitalized.
But for some REASON SOME theologians TRANSLATED the same exact Greek word “logos” as “Word” being capitalized 7 times to identify THE God's divine EXPRESSION referring to Jesus Christ. Now to ME this shows the BIAS of some translations toward the Orthodox teaching of the doctrine of the trinity.
To say this another way, we have been TAUGHT by Bible theologians, who teach the doctrine of the trinity, that these 7 times only that the Greek word “logos” now suddenly means Jesus Christ, an eternal divine Spirit being, a SEPARATE person or being from the Father, called the Son of God, the second person of a triune Godhead, who dwelt WITH THE God the Father at his SIDE having no beginning nor ending, whom GOD then SENT down from heaven into the earth, where the SON OF God was then was made flesh, given the name Jesus, who would then be CALLED the SON OF the Highest, but yet REMAINED fully THE ALMIGHTY God, the HIGHEST while being a human at the same time ACCORDING to the doctrines of the trinity and the deity of Jesus.
But the Bible ITSELF states that Jesus said of HIMSELF that he CAME from God, as in, he came OUT FROM God, which agrees perfectly with Isaiah 44:24 with the SPOKEN WORD coming OUT FROM the MOUTH of God to send FORTH his WORD, where HE, or IT, the spoken word of God, that BECAME a HE would accomplish what Yahweh sent his WORD coming out of is MOUTH to do.
Please read John 16:26,27.
“For the Father himself loves you, BECAUSE you have loved me, and (BECAUSE you) have believed that I CAME OUT FROM God.
28. I CAME FORTH FROM the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.”
Jesus knew that the scriptures spoke of him. He knew the PROPHESIES of his virgin birth. Jesus knew the prophecy of Isaiah 44:24. Jesus knew that Yahweh creates and bring FORTH all things by SPEAKING them into existence. So Jesus is saying that he CAME FORTH from God by COMING OUT FROM God.
Now keeping in mind the very real possibility that the INTENDED meaning of these words of Jesus is that Jesus came FORTH into existence BY God's WORD being SPOKEN FORTH OUT FROM the MOUTH of God let us read HOW Jesus was conceive in the womb of the virgin Mary. Remember that Jesus, the Son of MAN knew that the SCRIPTURES spoke of HIM.
Please read Luke 1:24-35, which is HOW the “logos” or word, or SPOKEN SAYING of God was made to become FLESH in John 1:14.
“And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying,
25. Thus has the Lord dealt with me in the days wherein he looked on me, to take away my reproach among men.
26. And in the sixth month the ANGEL Gabriel was sent FROM God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27. TO a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28. And the angel came in unto her, and SAID, Hail, you that are highly favored, the Lord is with you: blessed are you among women.
29. And when she saw him, she was troubled at his (“Logo” Strong's #3056 the same “logos” translated as “Word” in John 1:1,14, she was trouble at his) SAYING, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30. And the angel SAID unto her, Fear not, Mary: for you have found favor with God.
31. And, behold, you shall conceive in your womb, and bring forth a son, and SHALL CALL his NAME JESUS. (the NAME Jesus means the salvation of Yahweh or Yahweh saves. This does not mean that Jesus is Yahweh himself, but rather simply means that Yahweh will judge the world and the fallen angels BY this MAN named Jesus who SHALL be CALLED the SON OF the HIGHEST.)
32. He shall be great, and SHALL be CALLED the SON OF the Highest: and the Lord God shall GIVE unto him the throne of his father David: (Remember that God CALLS or prophesies things that are not yet as through they already ARE as prophecy of what WILL be. So at times it SEEMS as if Jesus is ALREADY God's Son but in truth Jesus is BECOMING God Son. Remember the prophecy in Isaiah 9:6,7 where FIRST God prophesies that a CHILD is BORN and THEN a SON is given. “For unto us a CHILD is BORN, unto us a SON is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:7. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. Isaiah 9:8. The Lord SENT a WORD INTO Jacob, and it has lighted upon Israel.” First of all this verse in Luke is a “partial” fulfillment of Isaiah 9:6 where a CHILD is to be BORN of a woman to become FLESH. Secondly a SON shall be given some 33 1/2 years later after this CHILD was born. And thirdly Jesus knew that the scriptures spoke of HIM. Please notice verse 8 of Isaiah chapter 9 where Yahweh is prophesying to send a WORD INTO Jacob and that that this WORD would light or remain and abide upon Israel. Jacob and Israel are at times used as types and shadows pointing to the coming Messiah. So Yahweh was prophesying to Jesus that he would send his WORD INTO him.)
33. And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34. Then said Mary unto the angel, HOW shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35. And the angel answered and SAID unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon you, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow you: therefore also that holy thing which shall be BORN of you SHALL be CALLED the SON OF God.”
Now do we read here in Luke or anywhere in the BIBLE ITSELF for that matter of where it says that the SON OF God came down from heaven to the earth AS already preexisting AS the divine ETERNAL SON OF God or God the SON, the second person of the trinity and then the already preexisting divine SON manifested himself to be conceived in the womb of the VIRGIN Mary to be BORN of a WOMAN, who would then NAME her son Jesus, who would then become to be called the SON OF the HIGHEST or the SON OF God but yet REMAIN the fully DIVINE Yahweh himself having TWO natures at the SAME time?
I mean if other verses are INTERPRETED to mean this, then WHY does not Luke 1:24-25 ALSO teach that Jesus HIMSELF as an eternal divine Spirit being who was with the God at his SIDE, being a SEPARATE person from the Father, came down out of heaven and manifested HIMSELF to be conceived in the womb of Mary to be born of a woman, BUT ALSO still yet REMAIN fully the divine ALMIGHTY God himself or remain the fully divine SON of God?
Should not the WHOLE word of God AGREE with whatever any one verse is INTERPRETED to mean? As I have said many times that any verse when taken out of context and viewed alone and apart from the rest of God's would may SEEM to be saying something that it is NOT truly saying when it is correctly interpreted in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of God.
Now some of you may be thinking that Jesus did SAY that he came down from heaven and that he will ascend back up into heaven where he was before. But what did Jesus INTEND these words to mean? We will cover this and all the verses that SEEM to say that Jesus preexisted up in heaven further on in this study. Remember that any verse when view ALONE and apart from the REST of God's word may SEEM to be saying something that it is NOT truly saying when it is CORRECTLY interpreted in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of God.
Thus any INTERPRETATION that we CONCLUDE a verse means must AGREE with the WHOLE word of God WITHOUT having ANY contradictions to any other part of God's word. And if there is a contradiction then that INTERPRETATION is NOT the CORRECT intended meaning of that verse.
Some Christians argue that if so be that Jesus was NOT Almighty God HIMSELF, then he could NOT save us. Other Christians, who have now seen from God's word that Jesus being “BEGOTTEN” means that Jesus did indeed have a BEGINNING still argue that unless Jesus was DIVINE or had a DIVINE NATURE, then he could NOT save us either.
But in truth NOTHING is impossible with God and if God CREATED or SPOKE his Son into existence to become our savior, then who are WE to say that it is NOT possible? WHAT do the PROPHECIES of the coming Messiah say? Do they say that God shall SEND DOWN from HEAVEN his SON? No they do not! They say that a CHILD shall be born first. They say that God shall RAISE UP a prophet from AMONG the people. They say that God will ANOINT his servant. They say that God will GIVEN his chosen one as a covenant for the people. They say a SON will be given. NOT the Son of GOD will be given, but rather a SON shall be given. Jesus called himself the Son of MAN. It was the ANOINTED Son of MAN who was given.
My point is this. The are NO scriptures that teach us that we MUST believe that Almighty GOD HIMSELF suffered and died on the cross for our sins in order to be saved. And there are NO scriptures that teach us that we MUST believe that GOD the DIVINE Son suffered and died on the cross for our sins in order to be saved.
In fact there are no verses that teach us as a matter of salvation that we must without fail believe that Jesus is DEITY in order to be saved. Now again I myself do indeed teach that Jesus IS DEITY, but NOT in the SAME way as the main stream Orthodox churches teach where Jesus was fully Almighty God himself in the FLESH being fully God and fully man at the SAME time having TWO natures, one DIVINE and the other human.
But rather I myself teach that Jesus was HIGHLY EXALTED after the cross to BECOME a God or to become DEITY being GIVE the DIVINE nature of IMMORTALITY to HAVE in himself even as the Father has always possessed the divine nature of immortality. Jesus was GIVEN all power and authority BY his God and Father Yahweh. The Bible itself clearly teaches us that Jesus is under and subject to Yahweh the Father.
The truth of the matter is that Jesus was born TWICE just like WE must be born AGAIN in order to enter into the kingdom of God or the world to come to rule and reign with Jesus.
You see dear child of God, we NOW, after the cross, call Jesus the FIRST begotten, but DURING the days of his FLESH, before the CROSS, he had not yet become the FIRST begotten form the DEAD. Jesus IS deity NOW, but DURING the days of his FLESH before the cross Jesus was not yet deity. Jesus had not yet been HIGHLY EXALTED by his God and Father before the cross.
Please notice the CONTEXT of Jesus being lifted up like the serpent, which speaks of the crucifixion of Jesus being lifted up on the cross for the sins of the world.
“There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we
know that you are a teacher
come from God: for
no MAN can
do these miracles that you do, except God be WITH him. (here
we see clearly that the followers of Jesus saw Jesus as a MAN with
whom God was WITH, because no MAN could do the miracles men saw Jesus
do except God was WITH that MAN.)
Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things
In other words, if one does NOT believe that Jesus suffered and died on the cross for their sins AND ALSO does NOT believe that Jesus was BEGOTTEN AGAIN from the DEAD, then they will NOT be saved and receive eternal life in the world to come. So for ME and many other Christians we see that the phrase the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF God means that Jesus was BEGOTTEN from the DEAD to inherit, as his reward for overcoming, the divine nature of immortality. Remember to consider ALL the word of God.
Please read 1 Corinthians 15:15-24.
“Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
Now let us take a CLOSER look at the main verses that SEEM to be saying that Jesus himself literally came down out of heaven down to the earth. Please read John 6:38 where Jesus HIMSELF says that HE came DOWN FROM HEAVEN.
“For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.”
So then, when we read this verse ALONE being OUT of it's CONTEXT and apart from the rest of God's word, then it certainly APPEARS that Jesus preexisted up in heaven WITH God and that he literally CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN as trintarians dogmatically demand that this verse means and also dogmatically demand that it cannot possibly mean any other thing other than God the Son, the second person of the trinity LITERALLY came down out of heaven down to the earth and manifested HIMSELF to become flesh, but yet REMAIN Yahweh himself at the SAME time having TWO natures.
But oneness believers say that Yahweh the FATHER came down from heaven and manifested HIMSELF to be the SON, who was then given the name Jesus, who would then become to be called the SON OF the Highest and thus Jesus IS the FATHER and the Father IS the SON, as in, there is only ONE Yahweh who manifested HIMSELF to be the Father and the Son at the SAME time.
So again we have here no less than two different theological “theories” of MEN as to what Jesus is actually saying here where BOTH side dogmatically demand that THEY have the ONLY sound Biblical teaching and the OTHER side is a FALSE teacher.
It truth BOTH side have a LITTLE truth in what they teach, both BOTH sides have gone TOO FAR by dogmatically demanding that Jesus was Yahweh HIMSELF during the days of his FLESH.
So the, why not just simply allow that BIBLE to speak for ITSELF?
What does the Bible itself actually teach us when this verse is LEFT in it's entire CONTEXT and then compared with like scripture?
Please read two verses that follow right after Jesus said he came down from heaven. Here is John 6:41,42 and then we will go back and read the entire context.
“The Jews then murmured at him, BECAUSE he said, I am theBREAD which CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN.
42. And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? HOW is it then that he says, I came down from heaven?”
You see dear child of God Jesus said far more than just “ I came down from heaven”. Jesus ALSO said that he was the BREAD that came down from heaven.
So what did Jesus mean by his saying that he was the BREAD which came down from heaven? Did Jesus INTEND his words to mean that he was a LITERAL loaf of BREAD that came down from heaven? No of course not! Then how can some dogmatically demand that Jesus INTENDED his words, “ I came down from heaven” to LITERALLY mean that Jesus himself came down from heaven?
Let us read the whole entire context first and then we will let the Bible itself teach us what the word of truth means by BREAD and by the words of Jesus saying, “ I came down from heaven”.
Please read John 6:25-63, which is right after Jesus fed five thousand with a two small fish and five loafs of barley BREAD and then they gathered up the left over fragments after everyone was full and they filled twelve baskets, which was more than the two small fish and five loaves of bread.
“And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when came you here?
26. Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, You seek me, not because you saw the miracles, but because you did EAT of the loaves, and were filled.
27. Labor NOT for the meat (or labor not for physical food or physical BREAD) which perishes, but for that meat (or spiritual BREAD) which endures unto everlasting life, which the Son of MAN shall give unto you: for him has God the Father sealed.
28. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29. Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that you believe on HIM whom HE has SENT.(And HOW was Jesus SENT down from Heaven? Was Jesus sent down from heaven AS already being the divine eternal SON OF God called God the Son, the second person of the trinity? Was Jesus sent down from heaven as an eternal divine being who was WITH God called the Word? Or was simply the “logos”, the SPOKEN word or spoken SAYING of God, which came out from the MOUTH of God, sent down from heaven by God's messenger the angel Gabriel, which we just read in Luke chapter 1?)
30. They said therefore unto him, What sign show you then, that we may see, and believe you? what do you work? (I mean really dear child of God, do you honestly think for one second that these Jews truly understood these words of Jesus being SENT by God to LITERALLY mean that Jesus himself, a MAN standing before them, was sent down out of heaven down to the earth to become a human being and yet remain fully divine at the same time having TWO nature, as we have been TAUGHT by Bible theologians that this and other verses must mean without fail in order to be saved? The disciples of Jesus and all who saw Jesus saw him as a HUMAN being, who was ANOINTED BY God. His disciples believed that he was SENT by God, in that, God was WITH Jesus. THINK this through for yourself dear child of God, because by the RESPONSE of these Jews after hearing Jesus say that he was SENT by God is NOT the response you would expect from Jews just hearing that a MAN, who came down out of heaven. The Greek word TRANSLATED as “sent” LITERALLY means COMMISSIONED by God and the Jews asked Jesus to PROVE that God sent or COMMISSIONED him by showing them a sign or some work that a MAN could ONLY do if God was WITH that MAN. The word COMMISSION means that authority and power is given to one to complete a task they are given to do. So then, Jesus was not literally sent down from heaven into the world, but rather the spoken saying, that which CAME OUT FROM the mouth of God was sent by God down from heaven by the angel Gabriel and it was the spoken word that was made or became FLESH. And then this HUMAN Son of MAN was SENT out into the world to accomplish the task his God and Father gave him and empowered the Son of MAN to do. And the WORDS I am teaching you now is the teaching come down from heaven. It was prophesied that God would raise up a prophet and in that prophecy God said HEAR you HIM. Jesus is saying the fulfillment of the PROPHECY which came down from heaven. I am HE. I am that BREAD from heaven.)
31. Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, HE gave them BREAD FROM HEAVEN to eat.
32. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that BREAD from heaven; but my Father gives you the TRUE BREAD FROM HEAVEN. (The things written in the Old Testament were types casting physical shadows of the TRUE which was being prophesied to come. Jesus knew that the scripture spoke of him so he knew by the teaching of the Holy Spirit the HE was the TRUE BREAD being sent down from heaven. Jesus is saying I am the true bread come down from heaven. I am come down from heaven as the TRUE bread.)
33. For the BREAD OF God is he (or IT) which comes down from heaven, and gives life unto the world. (the WORDS that I speak to you they are SPIRIT and it is the Spirit which quickens or gives LIFE. The words that I am teaching you are LIFE is what Jesus is saying by saying that HE is the BREAD, the TRUE bread come down from heaven.)
34. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us THIS BREAD.
35. And Jesus said unto them, I AM the BREAD of LIFE: he that comes to ME shall never hunger; and he that believes on me shall never thirst. (Now Jesus is NOT saying that he is a LITERAL loaf of BREAD that came down from heaven. But rather Jesus is saying BELIEVE the WORDS that I am teaching for the words I am teaching you are Spirit and they are LIFE. I am the fulfillment of the WORD of God that came down from heaven. The Bible speaks of leaven of BREAD as DOCTRINE or TEACHING. We will cover this passage of scripture in Matthew 6:5-12 in a moment, but for now I want you to see that the BREAD, which came down from Heaven was the TEACHING of God, that CAME OUT FROM the MOUTH of God down to the earth to be taught, revealed, manifested or shown clearly it's TRUE meaning BY the MAN, which the scriptures or teaching of God or the true bread from heaven prophesied to come.)
36. But I said unto you, That you also have seen ME, and believe not.(These are the SAME Jews that ate the BREAD and SAW the miracles of healing Jesus did, so Jesus is simply telling them that they have already SEEN signs and works that prove to them that God was WITH Jesus.)
37. All that the Father gives me shall come to me; and him that comes to me I will in no wise cast out.
38. For I CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, not to do mine OWN will, but the will of HIM that sent me. (or the WILL of HIM who COMMISSIONED me to do what HE gave me to do. Again HOW did Jesus come down from heaven? The CONTEXT here says that he came down form heaven as the TRUE BREAD of LIFE and NOT as the divine SON OF God. And remember that BREAD in this same context in the gospel of Matthew is TEACHING or the TRUE TEACHING of God that brings ETERNAL life if it is EATEN by BELIEVING on the WORDS or TEACHING of Jesus. Jesus is saying that HE is the WORD that God SENT down out of heaven, which was PROPHESIED in Isaiah 55:10,11. "For as the RAIN comes down, and the snow from heaven, and returns not thither, but waters the earth, and makes it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: Isaiah 55:11 So shall my WORD be that goes forth out of MY MOUTH: IT (or it who became flesh to become HE) shall not return unto me void, but IT (or the word coming out of the mouth of God to become FLESH) shall accomplish that which I please, and IT (or HE Jesus, the Son of MAN) shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent IT (or HIM my SPOKEN word made FLESH, the Son of MAN)." Remember that LIKE God RAINED down physical bread from heaven to sustain physical life God RAINED down his WORD from Heaven to become FLESH and teach us the TRUE teaching OF God that will give us ETERNAL LIFE if BELIEVED and OBEYED. This is HOW Jesus came down from heaven. The spoken WORD OUT FROM God became flesh just like Isaiah 55:11 prophesied and Jesus knew that the scriptures prophesied of him.)
39. And this is the Father's will which has sent me, that of all which he has given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which sees (or understands the) the Son (or understands the TEACHING or the words of the Son perceiving that his teaching IS OF God come down from heaven), and believes on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
41. The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am theBREAD which came down from heaven.
42. And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? HOW is it then that he said, I came down from heaven?
43. Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44. No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all TAUGHT of God. Every man therefore that has heard, AND has LEARNED of the Father, comes unto me. (Jesus was raised up by God from among the people of God to TEACH the children of Israel and us as well of the FATHER. Jesus says in John 17:3 that “THIS is ETERNAL life that they might know YOU the ONLY TRUE God AND Jesus Christ whom YOU have SENT” or who YOU the ONLY TRUE God have COMMISSIONED. Jesus was not raised up by God to show HIMSELF as THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God, but rather to show us the FATHER that we would know the FATHER to be the ONLY TRUE God.)
46. NOT that any MAN has seen (or understood) the Father, save he which is OF God, he has seen the Father. (The Greek word translated as seen here means perceive, to discern and does not dogmatically mean that Jesus was up in heaven with the God at his side having SEEN God before he came down from heaven. Jesus is saying that he is a MAN OF God and this is the way the Jews and disciples understood these words of Jesus. Please read and SEE or understand John 3:1-3, “There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: John 3:2. The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that you are a TEACHER come FROM God: for no MAN can do these miracles that you do, except God be WITH him. (or except that MAN be OF God) John 3:3. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot SEE (or discern or understand the things of) the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus was NOT saying that Jesus, the Son of MAN, was a TEACHER came down from heaven to teach us. Being FROM God means that Jesus was a chosen vessel USED by God, as one whom God anointed, ordained, sent, or commissioned.)
47. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believes on me has everlasting life.
48. I am that BREAD of LIFE. (or I am the TRUE TEACHING OF God that is coming FROM God down from Heaven to give to you, so that whosoever believes my teachings or my words, might have life. You see dear child of God the doctrine Jesus taught was NOT his OWN doctrine or TEACHING, but rather it is the TRUE TEACHING, which CAME OUT FROM the mouth of Yahweh, the Father, come down from heaven to give life to those who BELIEVE. Jesus is saying I am that teaching, I am that true bread come down from heaven. I am the fulfillment of the word come down from heaven. I am that word of Isaiah 55:11, which was spoken out of the mouth of God come down from heaven. I am come down from heaven.)
49. Your fathers did EAT manna (or physical food raining down from heaven) in the wilderness, and are dead.
50. This is the BREAD (or TRUE TEACHING OF God) which COMES down from heaven (literally meaning that the true teaching of God is presently descending down from Heaven, which means that Jesus was presently HEARING from God as he was TEACHING the people saying he that BELIEVES on ME shall have eternal life. Jesus obviously had dreams and vision from God as some of the ways he SAW God, as in, UNDERSTANDING what God wanted him to say or do. My point is that no man LITERALLY ATE the physical body of Jesus to receive ETERNAL LIFE in the world to come, but rather they ATE the TEACHING of Jesus come down from heaven by BELIEVING the true teaching of Jesus come down from heaven), that a man may eat thereof, and not die. (God is not forcing any human to believe on his SON Jesus. God is offering for ALL mankind to come to the knowledge of the TRUTH to be saved and receive eternal life in the world to come.)
51. I am the LIVING BREAD which came down from heaven (In other words, Jesus is simply saying he is the manifestation of the WRITTEN WORD of God come to LIFE and the FULFILLMENT of the SCRIPTURES, which came down from heaven, having the TRUE discernment of the ONLY TRUE God, who Jesus clearly identifies as the FATHER): if any man EAT of THIS BREAD, (the TEACHING of Jesus) he shall live for ever: and the BREAD (or the TEACHING) that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. (So at the FIRST coming of Jesus, the Son of MAN was commissioned by God to TEACH, or REVEAL that TRUE BREAD come down from heaven which PROPHESIED of a yet coming prophet, whom God would raise up from among the people, and then ANOINT, and then this ANOINTED Son of Man would suffer and die on the cross for the sins of the world and God would raised him up from the DEAD. And whosoever BELIEVES this TEACHING come down from heaven and OBEYS the words of Jesus unto the end will have eternal life in the world to come.)
52. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, HOW can this man give us his FLESH to EAT?
53. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except you EAT the FLESH of the Son of MAN, and drink his blood, you have NO LIFE in you.
54. Whoso EATS my flesh, and drinks my BLOOD, has eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56. He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, dwells in me, and I in him. (Jesus is NOT literally saying that we must EAT his literal flesh and drink his literal blood, but rather that we must EAT, as in BELIEVE that Jesus gave his flesh and blood as a SACRIFICE for our SINS. And if we BELIEVE that Jesus DIED for our sins and was raised from the DEAD, then we have eternal life abiding in us. And Jesus will raise us from the dead if we OBEY his words unto the end.)
57. As the living Father has sent me, and I live BY the Father: so he that eats me, even he shall live BY me. (this is saying that he will LIVE, as in, God will raise him from the DEAD and be given eternal life BY the Father and that if we BELIEVE his words that WE will be raised from the dead and be given eternal life BY Jesus.)
58. THIS IS THAT BREAD which came down from heaven:(WHAT is that bread? In other words, THIS TEACHING that we MUST EAT the FLESH of Jesus and DRINK his BLOOD is the TRUE TEACHING of God that is LIFE to those who EAT this TEACHING come down from heaven. THIS is that TRUE teaching come down from heaven.) not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eat of THIS BREAD shall live for ever. (Again Jesus is NOT teaching us here that we are to LITERALLY eat his FLESH and drink his BLOOD, but rather we are to eat the TEACHING of the WRITTEN WORD of God in the Old Testament of the PROPHECIES speaking of JESUS as THAT BREAD or that teaching or the ONE whom the scriptures have prophesied to come BEING JESUS. Jesus IS that TRUE BREAD of LIFE come down from heaven. Jesus is the manifestation of the SPOKEN word of the ONE and ONLY TRUE God the FATHER. Jesus instituted the breaking of bread or communion to REMEMBER his DEATH and ALSO his victorious resurrection being BEGOTTEN again from the DEAD and WHY he suffered and died. In John 12:23-33 we learn that if Jesus would not have died on the cross, then he ALONE would become the ONLY Son of God so it was needed for the SEED of Abraham to DIE in order to bring forth MUCH FRUIT.)
59. These things said he in the synagogue, as he TAUGHT in Capernaum.
60. Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? (or who can understand it. Who can believe this teaching if it is literal. Remember that Jesus spoke in parables so that the Jews could hear with their physical ears, but not hear or understand with their spiritual ears. WHY? Because it was PROPHESIED to be so that or in order that God could redeem ALL of mankind and not just his people the Jews. We serve the only WISE God who outwits his enemy. For had Satan know he would NOT have crucified the Lord of glory.)
61. When Jesus knew in himself (or when Jesus perceived in himself) that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? (or are you also going to leave me because I said you must eat my flesh and drink my blood?)
62. What and if (or WHAT and IF I told you also that) you shall see the Son of MAN ascend up where he was before?
63. It is the spirit that quickens (or it is the eternal Spirit who resurrects from the DEAD); the flesh profits nothing (or me living and NOT dying for your sins will not profit anything for you. I must GIVE my FLESH and BLOOD for an atonement of sins for without the shedding of blood their is NO forgiveness of sins): the WORDSthat I speak unto you, THEY are spirit, and THEY are LIFE.”
Now Jesus is NOT saying that HE, the Son of MAN dwelt up in heaven BEFORE in eternity past and that Son of MAN came down from heaven. But rather Jesus says that it is SPIRIT that makes alive, or the SPIRIT who gives LIFE to all flesh. The CONTEXT teaches us that Jesus is not only speaking of the natural life of the FLESH, but being BEGOTTEN AGAIN from the DEAD to ETERNAL LIFE.
Jesus said in verse 57 that he lives BY that Father. This means that the physical human Jesus was given LIFE by the Father, but it ALSO means that the Father GAVE his Son the divine nature of immortality TO HAVE in himself even as the Father has always had eternal life in himself and ALSO committed to his Son the right or the authority and power to give this same divine nature of eternal life to whomsoever that Son wills.
Jesus is saying that the FLESH is nothing and in doing so Jesus was saying the HE himself was nothing so long as he is ALIVE in the FLESH. The focus on this whole passage of scripture is the TRUE TEACHING which, CAME OUT FROM the MOUTH of God down from heaven referring to the WHOLE word of God. Now there was no New Testament written at this time when Jesus walked as a human being in the days of his FLESH being ANOINTED OF God.
So in truth Jesus was speaking of the TEACHING of the Old Testament, which SPOKE of HIM as FULFILLING the prophecies of his FIRST coming to accomplish the task of OVERCOMING the enemy to live without sin a suffer and die a cruel brutal death on the cross for OUR sins, and not fro ours sins only but also for the sins of the WHOLE world so that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES this true teaching of Jesus come down from heaven to DIE for the sins of the world AND was raised from the DEAD after three days will have eternal life.
Also please remember that Jesus was taught moment by moment by the Holy Spirit showing him things yet to COME. Now WE now know after the fact that the Son of MAN ascended to the Father right after his RESURRECTION after he spoke to Mary Magdalene saying to her NOT to TOUCH him because he has NOT YET ASCENDED to the Father. Then later that same day he appeared to his disciples but Thomas was not there and did not believe that Jesus was alive so he said unless I see him myself and put my own fingers in the holes of his hands and thrust my hand into his side I will not believe, Then the next day Jesus appeared again to his disciple and Thomas was there this time and he told his disciples to TOUCH him proving to them that he was not a ghost or spirit, because a spirit does not have a body of flesh and bone.
So my point is that the Son of MAN ascended up into heaven right after his resurrection and then came back down from heaven to show himself as NOW being an IMMORTAL Son of MAN having a body of FLESH and BONE. Thus Jesus knowing this by the Holy Spirit he said,
“What and if (Or what and if I told you also that) you shall SEE the Son of MAN ascend up where he was before?
63. It is the spirit that quickens (or RAISES the DEAD); the flesh profits nothing (Or me remaining alive in the flesh profits you nothing so for this reason the Son of MAN must suffer and die on the cross and be BEGOTTEN AGAIN to eternal life by the SPIRIT who gives LIFE): the WORDS that I speak unto you, THEY are spirit, and THEY are LIFE.”
Remember that the immediate CONTEXT is speaking of EATING the FLESH and drinking the BLOOD of Jesus, which most all Christians agree is speaking of the DEATH and resurrection of Jesus that we must BELIEVE in order to be saved. If one does NOT eat this TRUE TEACHING come down from heaven, then they will REMAIN dead in their sins.
Now there is NO doubt that Jesus came from God, as in, the ORIGIN or SOURCE of his virgin birth was OF God and NOT of man. Jesus knew the scriptures spoke of him being born of a VIRGIN and it is very possible that he even heard Mary and Joseph talking about him. Both Mary and Joseph knew that Joseph was NOT the father of Jesus.
Before we go back to John 1:14 and the CONTEXT of where it is found I want you to read John 5:15-34
“The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole.(Jesus just healed a man on the Sabbath day)
16. And therefore (or for this reason) did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him (it was the law of Moses to stone those to death who WORKED on the Sabbath day), because he had done these things on the Sabbath day.
17 But Jesus answered them, My Father WORKS hitherto, and I work. (or I am just obeying what my FATHER is showing me to do and it is Yahweh himself who is actually DOING the WORK of healing)
18. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the Sabbath, but said ALSO that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. (Now Jesus was NOT making himself equal with his God and Father, but rather Jesus was being falsely ACCUSED by the Jews of making himself equal with God simply by saying that God was his FATHER. See how Jesus defends this false accusation made by the Jews.)
19. Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, (or Truly truly) I say unto you, The SON can DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF, but what he sees the Father do: for what things soever he does, these also does the Son likewise. (In other words, what ever Jesus saw his Father do in a dream or vision Jesus simply obeyed the leading of the Father and did what he saw his Father do. For example Jesus may have had a dream of himself stooping down and spitting on the ground and then making a ball of mud out of his spit and dirt and then rub this spit ball of mud on a man's eyes. Then the next day Jesus saw this same blind man he saw in his dream and then heard the Holy Spirit saying to him go and do what you saw yourself doing in the dream I gave you. So Jesus obeyed, and then the Holy Spirit told Jesus now say to the man go wash in the pool of Siloam and tell him that he will come again seeing. So Jesus obeyed again to do what he saw and heard the Father doing. Jesus was not the Father in the dream, but he knew that the dream was FROM the Father if so be that was the way it actually happened. All I know for sure is that Christians today are having dreams of THEM healing people and they are obeying what they SAW in their dreams and the people are healed. Jesus said the WORKS he did we shall do ALSO. The main point here is that WE ourselves do not actually do the WORKS of healing and neither did Jesus, but rather it was the Father dwelling IN Jesus who did the WORKS of healing just the same as God dwelling IN us does the WORKS of healing. through our hands when we lay hands on the sick and command the sickness to leave in the name of Jesus.)
20. FOR (or because) the Father loves the SON, and shows him ALL things that HIMSELF DOES: (Now if so be that Jesus was Almighty God himself in the flesh being fully Yahweh and a human being at the same time having TWO natures as the doctrine of the deity of Jesus dogmatically demands, then WHY did Jesus clearly and plainly teach us in SIMPLICITY that HE could do NOTHING OF HIMSELF and that it was the FATHER IN him who did the WORKS? The truth of the matter is that the fullness of the GODHEAD DWELT IN Jesus as opposed to the man-made teaching of Jesus being the second person of the Godhead. Jesus healed the sick by the POWER of the Father dwelling IN him) and he will show him greater works than these, that you may marvel.
21. For as the Father raises up the dead, and quickens them; even so the Son quickens whom he will. (WHY? Why is the SON OF God able to raise the dead and give them life and will be able to give the righteous dead in Christ eternal life in the world to come? Why is Jesus able to do this?)
22. FOR (or BECAUSE) the Father judges NO MAN, but hasCOMMITTED ALL JUDGMENT unto the SON:
23. THAT (or so THAT) all men should HONOR the SON, EVEN AS they honor the Father. He that honors NOT the SON honors NOT the Father which has sent him. (or has COMMISSIONED him)
24. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that HEARS MY WORD, AND believes on HIM that sent (or COMMISSIONED) me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the SON OF God: and they that hear shall live. (Again WHY is Jesus able to raise the dead?)
26. FOR (or BECAUSE) as the Father HAS life IN himself; so has he GIVEN TO the Son TO HAVE life in himself;
27. AND has GIVEN him authority to execute judgment ALSO,BECAUSE he is the Son of MAN. (NOT because Jesus is Yahweh HIMSELF. And NOT because Jesus is the SON OF Almighty God as his ONLY begotten SON. And NOT because Jesus had a DIVINE nature during the days of his FLESH. But rather BECAUSE Jesus was the Son of MAN. God could have just destroyed Satan and all the fallen ANGELS right on the spot when they rebelled to try and take over God's throne BEFORE mankind was ever created, but he did NOT do this. WHY? Why did God make Jesus a little LOWER than the ANGELS? WHY was it necessary for Jesus to be the Son of MAN, who is a little LOWER than the ANGELS? WHY did God NEED a MAN to die for the sins of MAN? Why will God let Satan loose again to DECEIVE the nations again AFTER he has him bound for a 1000 years? Please read the study “UNDERSTANDING WHY?”, which also addresses the question of WHY does God allow suffering in this present world?)
28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
30. I can of MINE OWN SELF DO NOTHING: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine OWN will, but the will of the Father which has sent (or COMMISSIONED) me. (Now if so be that Jesus was truly fully Yahweh and fully a human being at the same time in the days of his FLESH, then how is it that he has his OWN WILL? If Jesus were truly THE Almighty God, then he would NOT have had his OWN WILL. And please do not try and sell me that man-made THEORY that Jesus had TWO natures so it was his human nature that had his own will, because the word of TRUTH teaches us in simplicity that God is NOT a MAN and neither is God the SON of MAN. And the Bible itself clearly teaches us that Jesus is the Son of MAN, who shall be called the SON OF God. And if you read the study "JESUS THE SON OF MAN!" you will see that Jesus called himself the Son of MAN even when others called him the Son of God. Take Luke 22:70 and Matthew 26:63,64 as just two examples: Luke 22:70"Then said they all, Are you then the Son of God? And he said unto them, YOU say that I am." Matthew 26:63,64 "But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. Matthew 26:64 Jesus said unto him, YOU have said: NEVER THE LESS I say unto you, Hereafter shall you see the Son of MAN sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven." Yes Jesus did indeed identify that he was God's Son by calling God his Father, but he ALSO called himself the Son of MAN twice as much as others called him the Son of God. Again read the study called Jesus the Son of MAN, because it is important that you see and understand that Jesus was a HUMAN being who was ANOINTED of God and that the SAME anointing who DWELT IN Jesus NOW dwells IN YOU to EMPOWER you to live without sin and DO the SAME works Jesus did THROUGH the power of the eternal Spirit who DWELT IN him.)
31. If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
32. There is another that bear witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesses of me is true.
33. You sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
34. But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I SAY, that you might be saved.”
If Jesus were truly the fully divine eternal Yahweh and fully human at the same time, then he would NOT have need to be GIVEN the divine nature of immortality, because he would have already been the immortal God.
And to those who know from God's word of truth that Jesus is NOT Yahweh the one true and only Almighty God the Father but still believe that Jesus was BOTH divine and human at the SAME time during the days of his FLESH I ask of you WHERE are the scriptures that clearly teach us that Jesus had TWO NATURES?
Again I am NOT trying the make Jesus to be a mere ORDINARY human being like every other human being. I teach in other studies that Jesus is UNIQUELY begotten of God and that God has chosen him to be his ANOINTED servant to saved the people from their sins. At times I know it may seem to some that I overemphasize the humanity of Jesus, but I do so in order that you will SEE that Jesus was EMPOWERED to do all that he did by the ANOINTING dwelling IN him, which is the SAME anoint who now dwells is US. I have heard so many times where Christians make the EXCUSE that ONLY Jesus can live without sin, while begging God to help them to stop sinning.
I am here to tell you that there is a time for you to stop BEGGING God form you to stop sinning and start BELIEVING that the GREATER ONE is DWELLING IN you to EMPOWER you to stop sinning and also do the SAME works of HEALING and casting out devils, and even raising the dead that men saw Jesus do THROUGH the eternal Spirit who DWELT IN him. Please read the study "HOW YOU CAN LIVE YOUR LIFE FREE FROM SIN!".
Now Jesus said of HIMSELF that he CAME OUT FROM God in John 16:27,28.
“For the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me, AND(BECAUSE you) have BELIEVED that I CAME OUT FROM God.
28. I CAME FORTH FROM the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.”
With these words of Jesus coming out from God along with what we have learned about the “LOGOS” being made FLESH as being the SPOKEN word or spoken SAYING of God coming out from the MOUTH of Godand the fact that Jesus knew that the WORD of God or the Scriptures the true bread from heaven spoke of him let us read John 1:1 from a LITERAL word for word translation.
“In beginning was the SAYING and the SAYING was TOWARDTHE God and God was the SAYING.”
The word “TOWARD” as defined by the American Heritage Dictionary means; 1. in the direction of, 2. in a position facing, 3. somewhat before in time, approaching, 4. with regard to, in relation to, 5. in furtherance of partial fulfillment of. 6. BY WAY OF ACHIEVING; WITH A VIEW TO accomplish something, 7.IN PROGRESS or IMMINENT, TRACTIBLE, coming, favorable, future.
Now some translations read “in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was “WITH” THE God, and God was the Word.” The English word translated as “WITH” in the King James Version is the Greek word “PROS”, Strong's #4313, that is translated as “the SAYING was “TOWARD” THE God” in the LITERAL translation.
This Greek word “pros” has many meanings such as to, for, near, with the God, was toward the God, was BECAUSE OF the God, was or is BELONGING TO the God, is PERTAINING TO the God, was or is NIGH UNTO the God like Romans teaches us that the word is NIGH you and even in your MOUTH, and the SAYING was WITHIN THE God.
Now any one of these definitions could be used in this verse but the translators chose WITH God and not with THE God for their own bias reason, which is also why they chose to translate and capitalize the Greek word “logos” as Word rather than the SAYING was WITHIN THE God, which leaves no doubt that “logos” is the SPOKEN word of God that was WITHIN the thoughts and desires of God, as opposed to a separate divine eternal being who was WITH God at his side.
I personally believe that the best definition is “the SAYING was WITHIN THE God, and God was the SAYING.”
Or what God was the saying was. To me this AGREES perfectly with the OLD Testament where God says in the King James TRANSLATION in Exodus 3:14,
“I AM THAT I AM”
The LITERAL translation of this verse in Exodus 3:14 is as follows:
“I SHALL BECOME WHAT I AM BECOMING”
In other words, what Yahweh SPEAKS forth out of his MOUTH comes to pass. One could say that Yahweh literally BECOMES whatever he SPEAKS forth OUT FROM WITHIN himself to become or to create or make. But this does not mean that what God creates REMAINS the fully divine Almighty God Yahweh.
To say this another way, the SPOKEN word of God BECOMES whatever God is SAYING, but does NOT remain DIVINE at the same time. God first forms an IMAGE WITHIN himself of what he desires to BE. So when God IMAGINED for there to be LIGHT, then God SAID or SPOKE his word SAYING “Let there be light”, then the spoken word is BECOMING light the moment is it first spoken. How LONG it took we are not told.
Let us read the LITERAL word for word translation of Genesis 1:3
“And he is SAYING Elohim he shall become light and he is becoming light.”
To me all three of these verses; John 1:1, Exodus 3:14 and Genesis 1:3 all AGREE with the DEFINITION of the Greek word "PROS" being WITHIN, which should have been translated in John 1:1 as follows.
“In beginning was the SAYING and the SAYING was WITHIN THE God and God was the SAYING.”
To me this is the best translation that I have found of John 1:1 where we can clearly see in simplicity that the LOGOS is the SPOKEN word that was WITHIN the one true and only Almighty God as the IMAGE of what he desired to BE brought forth into existence, which AGREES with the WHOLE word of God SPEAKING his WORD forth out from his mouth to become what he desires to be. Out of the abundance of the HEART the MOUTH speaks Jesus said. It was WITHIN or IN God's HEART to have a SON and he SPOKE his Son into existence.
Now with the HOW God creates everything let us at least try and look at John 1:1 as Yahweh CREATING himself a God to rule FOR him while he REST on the SEVENTH 1000 year long day.
“In beginning was the SAYING and the SAYING was WITHIN THE YAHWEH and God was the SAYING.”
In other words, instead of Yahweh saying LIGHT be, the SAYING of Yahweh was GOD be and "A" God came into being. Not just any God, but the EXPRESS IMAGE of Yahweh, or the EXACT representation of Yahweh's CHARACTER that Yahweh desire to reveal to mankind. The saying was LIGHT and light was. The saying was God and God was. The word was Light and light was. The word was God and God was. Any honest Bible scholar will tell you that there is NO article "THE" in the phrase "and the word was God". In other words, the original text does NOT say "and the word was THE God."
Yahweh prophesied in the Old Testament that he was going do do NEW THINGS. And the context of these prophecies we see he ELECT one and SHARING his glory. So one of the NEW THINGS God was prophesying was to have a SON with whom he would SHARE his GLORY. Yahweh is THE God OF God and Yahweh the Father is THE God OF his Son Jesus who he highly exalted to become a God. The does not mean that Jesus became THE God Yahweh HIMSELF, but rather means that Jesus was GIVEN the DIVINE NATURE of immortality to be DEITY or A God under and subject to THE God Yahweh, who alone is the FATHER of ALL.
So again WHAT became or was made to become FLESH in John 1:14?
The man-made doctrines of the trinity and the deity of Jesus both dogmatically demand that JESUS became flesh and REMAINED fully God at the same time, when the word of TRUTH itself simply states in simplicity the the WORD was made FLESH.
So now the question becomes WHAT did the word or SAYING of God BECOME?
Was the word made to become a human being, who was fully divine and fully human at the same time? If so WHERE are the scriptures that prove this THEORY man be man to explain HOW a divine eternal God could DIE on the cross and HOW the divine God could be TEMPTED and HOW Jesus could heal people and so forth and so on.
So then, are these man-made doctrines SOUND Biblical teachings? Was Jesus a fully IMMORTAL DIVINE ALMIGHTY God and fully a mortal human being at the SAME time during the days of his FLESH as the doctrine of the deity of Jesus dogmatically demands claiming that you are dead in your sins if you do NOT believe these man-made teachings that Jesus was Yahweh HIMSELF during the days of his flesh?
Or was Jesus exactly what the clear, plain, simple word of God states in simplicity as being the Son of MAN, who was ANOINTED BY God, who THEN became a God after the cross and his resurrection being BEGOTTEN from the DEAD to be GIVEN the divine nature of immortality? Now ALL of the Old Testament prophecies prophesied that God would raise up a savior from among the PEOPLE speaking of God's chosen people. And that he would be a PROPHET like Moses. He would be born of a woman and not just any woman but a woman who was a VIRGIN.
So then, none of these prophecies even hint that an already preexisting SON OF God would come down out of heaven called God the Son, the second person of the trinity, who would then become a human being, but yet remain fully the divine God the Son at the same time having two natures where his divine nature would be equal to God the Father in every way where neither is great than nor less than the other an only his human nature would have a will of his own.
The truth of the matter is that what came down out of heaven was God's SPOKEN logos, the Father's spoken SAYING, his word, his TEACHING written down by men of Old inspired by the Eternal divine Spirit, the ONE true and INVISIBLE God, the source and Father of ALL.
Please read Matthew 16:5-12, where the disciples finally understand that the “BREAD” from heaven is the TEACHING of God which Jesus received by revelation of God's word to SHOW us the FATHER as the ONE TRUE God so that we would know him AND that we would know his SON Jesus who the Father commissioned.
“And when his disciples were come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread.
6. Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven (or BREAD) of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
7. And they reasoned among themselves (or they wondered among themselves as to what Jesus meant) saying, It is because we have taken no BREAD.
8. Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O you of little faith, why reason you among yourselves, because you have brought no BREAD?
9. Do you not YET UNDERSTAND, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets you took up?
10. Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets you took up?
11. How is it that you do NOT UNDERSTAND that I spoke it(referring to what Jesus TAUGHT concerning HIS being the TRUE BREAD which came down from heaven) NOT to you concerning BREAD, that you should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
12. Then UNDERSTOOD they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the DOCTRINE (or the TEACHING) of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.”
The word “doctrine” means teaching. The doctrines of the church are the TEACHINGS of the church. Plain and simple what came down from heaven was the LOGOS, the SPOKEN word of God, the TEACHING of God manifested or made CLEARLY known to us by Jesus the LOGOS OF God spoken out from the mouth of God to be MADE FLESH. The word manifested means to MAKE KNOW. Jesus was commissioned by God to make known to us the ONE TRUE God AND to also make know to us the HE was the CHRIST the one prophesied to come.
Please see the study “WHAT DOES GOD INCARNATE MEAN?”, which gives you all the verses to prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that Yahweh HIMSELF, the FATHER of all became flesh and NOT Jesus became flesh.
So then, once you clearly see that it was Yahweh HIMSELF, who became flesh and that it was NOT the SON, who became flesh as some dogmatically demand, then it will be easier to see that Jesus was NOT begotten in eternity past as some claim and TRY to prove by taking verses OUT of their CONTEXT. And always remember that no matter HOW one INTERPRETS Philippians 2:6,7 as WHAT the FORM was before that FORM became flesh it is ABSOLUTELY certain that that FORM stripped himself of ALL his or it's DIVINE NATURE to take on HUMAN NATURE.
In other words, IF one INTERPRETS that FORM to be YAHWEH HIMSELF, then Yahweh STRIPPED HIMSELF of ALL his DIVINE nature to take on HUMAN nature.
And IF one INTERPRETS that FORM to be God eternal divine SON, then the SON stripped himself of ALL his DIVINE nature to take on HUMAN nature.
And IF one INTERPRETS that FROM to be a separate divine eternal Spirit being called the Word. then the Word stripped himself of ALL his DIVINE nature to take on HUMAN nature.
And IF one INTERPRETS the FORM to be the SPOKEN SAYING OF Yahweh, the that word stripped itself of all it's DIVINE nature to take on HUMAN nature.
No matter HOW one interprets Philippians 2:6,7 if they are HONEST and they CORRECTLY interpret these verses in context and in the light of the rest of God word, then that FORM took on HUMAN nature WITHOUT having ANY DIVINE nature. Please read "PHILIPPIANS 2:6-A TRINITARIAN DILEMMA!".
There are those in the early church and through out the entire history of the church who taught what I am teaching you. I was surprised to find that Tertullian taught almost word for word what I teach, because I was taught the he taught the doctrine of the trinity. But when I found out that he did NOT teach the doctrine of the trinity, then to me this was the Holy Spirit confirming in me of what he already taught me little by little from since I was a babe in Christ.
Tertullian is often quoted by those who teach the doctrine of the trinity to TRY and prove that this doctrine of the trinity was taught by the early Christians, but the TRUTH of the matter is that Tertullian did NOT teach the trinity in the way that this doctrine of the trinity it is taught today. Let me show you what I mean by taking a look at what Tertullian himself wrote. Here is a link to the writings of Tertullian, who supposedly, according to the Roman Catholic church, was the author of the trinity. But again Tertullian did NOT teach that Jesus was CO EQUAL nor CO ETERNAL with the Father.
Tertullian wrote in is argument against Praxeas that God was ALONE in the beginning yet not totally alone, because he had his THOUGHTS or his reason much like we as human beings who are made in the image of God carry on a conversation WITHIN ourselves. Tertullian said that in this way the Word COULD be viewed as a second person in a SENSE.
Here is a direct quote from this early Christian writer Tertullian that some Christians refer to try and support the doctrine of the trinity has always existed as a teaching of the church. But again Tertullian did NOT teach the DOCTRINE of the trinity, but merely was perceiving that there SEEMED to be THREE, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. He did NOT teach that Jesus was CO ETERNAL with the Father and therefore Jesus had NO BEGINNING. Nor did he teach that Jesus was CO EQUAL with the Father. But rather Tertullian taught that Jesus had to have a BEGINNING and that there was only ONE who was NOT BEGOTTEN who was the Father. Read what he wrote for yourself.
“But since they (referring to Praxeas and his group of believers who taught that the Father and the Son were ONE and the SAME being, rather than two separate beings) will have the Two to be but One, so that the Father shall be deemed to be the same as the Son, it is only right that the whole question respecting the Son should be examined, as to whether He exists, and who He is and the mode of His existence. Thus shall the truth itself secure its own sanction from the Scriptures, and the interpretations which guard them. There are some who allege that even Genesis opens thus in Hebrew: "In the beginning God made for Himself a Son."
Again we see Tertullian referring to those who error in interpreting the scriptures. Then Tertullian goes on to say the following as what he himself believes.
As there is NO ground for this, I am led to OTHER arguments derived from God's own dispensation, in which He existed before the creation of the world, up to the generation of the Son. For before all things God was alone -- being IN Himself and for Himself universe, and space, and all things. Moreover, He was alone, because there was NOTHING EXTERNAL to Him but Himself. Yet even not then was He alone; for He had with Him that which He possessed IN Himself, that is to say, His OWN Reason. For God is rational, and Reason was first in Him; and so all things were from Himself. This Reason is His own Yought (or Consciousness) which the Greeks call logos, by which term we also designate Word or Discourse and therefore it is now usual with our people, owing to the mere simple interpretation of the term, to say that the Word was in the beginning with God; although it would be more suitable to regard Reason as the more ancient; because God had NOT Word from the beginning, but He had Reason even before the beginning; because also Word itself consists of Reason, which it thus proves to have been the prior existence as being its own substance. Not that this distinction is of any practical moment. For although God had NOT YET sent out His Word, He still had Him (or it) WITHIN Himself, both in company with and included within His very Reason, as He silently planned and arranged WITHIN Himself everything which He was after wards ABOUT to utter THROUGH His Word. Now, whilst He was thus PLANNING and arranging with His own Reason, He was actually causing that TO BECOME Word which He was dealing with in the way of Word or Discourse.
And that you may the more readily understand this, consider first of all, from your own self, who are made "in the image and likeness of God," for what purpose it is that you also possess reason in yourself, who are a rational creature, as being not only made by a rational Artificer, but actually animated out of His substance. Observe, then, that when you are silently conversing with yourself, this very process is carried on within you by your reason, which meets you with a word at every movement of your thought, at every impulse of your conception.
Whatever you think, there is a word; whatever you conceive, there is reason. You must needs speak it in your mind; and while you are speaking, you admit speech as an interlocutor WITH you, involved in which there is this very reason, whereby, while in thought you are holding converse with your word, you are (by reciprocal action) producing thought by means of that converse with your word. Thus, in A CERTAIN SENSE, the word is a second person WITHIN you, through which in thinking you utter speech, and through which also, (by reciprocity of process,) in uttering speech you generate thought. The word is itself a different thing from yourself. Now how much more fully is all this transacted in God, whose image and likeness even you are regarded as being, inasmuch as He has reason within Himself even while He is silent, and involved in that Reason His Word! I may therefore without rashness first lay this down (as a fixed principle) that even then before the creation of the universe God was not alone, since He had WITHIN Himself both Reason, and, inherent in Reason, His Word, which He made SECOND TO Himself by agitating IT WITHIN Himself.
This is HOW God creates all things. God first FORMS that IMAGE of what he desire to created WITHIN himself. Then God SPEAKS forth that IMAGE that is WITHIN himself OUT FROM his MOUTH as his SPOKEN word or spoken SAYING. Then God's SPOKEN Word which CAME OUT FROM God BECOMES that IMAGE that was WITHIN himself.
Jesus said the he CAME OUT FROM God in John 15:27.
"For the Father himself loves you, BECAUSE you have loved me, AND (BECAUSE you) have BELIEVE that I CAME OUT FROM God."
Please read the study "WHAT DOES JOHN 1:14 TRULY MEAN?" .
Thanks for reading and may God bless you richly as you continue to grow in the TRUTH of the WHOLE word of God to become more and more conformed into the IMAGE of God's dearly beloved Son Jesus to DO the SAME work that Jesus did THROUGH the power of the ANOINTING that dwelt IN him, which is NOW dwelling IN YOU dear child of God to EMPOWER you to live without sin, heal the sick, cast out demons and even raise the dead if led to do so by the Holy Spirit dwelling in you.
Thanks again for reading and may God bless you richly as you continue to seek the truth of the WHOLE word of Almighty God. Below is a list of the studies I mentioned within this study along with all the other studies that I have related to this subject of HOW did Jesus PREEXIST. We all agree that Jesus preexisted is some form so the question is not IF Jesus preexisted, but rather in what form as to HOW Jesus preexisted in eternity past.
Your brother in our Lord Jesus Christ,
RETURN TO HOMEPAGE
VERSES USED TO TEACH THAT JESUS PREEXISTED!
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2. The same was in the beginning with God.
3. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”
“And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”
“For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
“He that comes from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaks of the earth: he that comes from heaven is above all.”
“Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven”
“ For the bread of God is he which comes down from heaven, and gives life unto the world.”
“For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.”
“And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?”
“ This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.”
“I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
“This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eats of this bread shall live for ever.”
“What and if you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?”
“Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but you cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.”
“And he said unto them, You are from beneath; I am from above: you are of this world; I am not of this world.”
“I said therefore unto you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that I am he, you shall die in your sins.”
“Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, you would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
“Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”
“I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.”
“And now, O Father, glorify you me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world was.”
“For I have given unto them the words which you gave me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from you, and they have believed that you did send me.”
JOHN 17:24 (scroll down to the second verse in question in this study)
“Father, I will that they also, whom you have given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which you have given me: for you loved me before the foundation of the world.”
ROMANS 8:3 (scroll down to the eleventh verse in question in this study)
“For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:”
1 CORINTHIANS 10:4 (scroll down to the first verse in question in this study)
“And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.”
1 CORINTHIANS 15:47 (scroll down to VERSE #6.)
“The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.”
2 CORINTHIANS 8:9 (scroll down to VERSE #2.)
“For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, that you through his poverty might be rich.”
“But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,”
“And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10. To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11. According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:”
EPHESIANS 4:8-10 (scroll down to the fifth verse in question in this study)
“Wherefore he said, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10. He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)”
COLOSSIANS 1:15-17 (scroll down to the third verse in question in this study)
“Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16. For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17. And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.”
“Has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;”
“For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.”
“Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;”
HEBREWS 10:5 (scroll down to VERSE #1.)
“Wherefore when he comes into the world, he says, Sacrifice and offering you would not, but a body have you prepared me:”
“Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7. But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8. And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.”
1 John 1:1,2
“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2. (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)”
“And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;”
“But you, Bethlehem Ephratah, though you be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.”
“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”
PROVERBS 8:22 (scroll down to the second verse in question in this study)
“The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.”
Thanks for reading. May God bless you richly as you continue seeking the truth of the whole word of God. Also please read the studies listed below related to Jesus being God, the doctrine of the trinity and the deity of Jesus.
Your brother in our Lord Jesus Christ,
RETURN TO HOMEPAGE
Verses used to try and support the doctrine of the trinity, and that Jesus is Yahweh himself, as in one and the self same being.
Your brother in our Lord Jesus Christ,
RETURN TO HOMEPAGE