SPELLING EDITED

V-21. WHAT DOES PROVERBS 8:22-31 TRULY MEAN?

Does Proverbs chapter 8 teach us that Jesus pre-existed as a literal person or Spirit being that was with Yahweh at Yahweh’s side in eternity past?

Does Proverbs chapter 8 speak of the beginning of Yahweh’s ORIGINAL creation? Or does Proverbs chapter 8 speak of the beginning of Yahweh RE-CREATING the earth?

Does John 1:1 speak of THE beginning, as in, the very first original beginning when nothing else existed except for the eternal Spirit, Yahweh himself? Or does John 1:1 speak of “A” beginning where Yahweh is RE-CREATING the earth with his word? And thus the word was WITHIN Yahweh as his THOUGHTS and PLAN of salvation, to bring forth his FIRST born Son into the world, his CREATION to be the Savior of the people he was about to create?

Or was Yahweh’s word, an eternal Spirit that was named the Word, who was with Yahweh at his side in eternity past? Or was the word of Yahweh, his spoken word that came forth out from Yahweh’s mouth to create all things? Is Yahweh’s word the Eternal Holy Spirit who was with Yahweh at his side in eternity past. In other words, were there two separate eternal Spirits who were both named Yahweh in eternity past? Were there two separate Spirit beings or persons in the one Yahweh in eternity past? Were there three separate persons in the one Yahweh in eternity past? Or has Yahweh always been ONE God in ONE person who one day had a SON?

What does Proverbs 8:22-31 TRULY mean in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of Almighty God.

Let us begin this study in God's word by reading a LITERAL translation of Genesis 1:1,2.

“In beginning he created Elohim >> the heavens and the earth.

2. And the earth she BECAME chaos and VACANCY, and darkness over faces of abyss, and Spirit of Elohim VIBRATING over face of abyss.”

When we read the rest of the creation account in Genesis 1:3-28, we can clearly see that ALL that God creates is GOOD. And God’s creating is not only good but it is VERY GOOD. So then, in verse 1, we see that God created both the heavens and the earth in eternity past as the very beginning of God’s creation. And thus, we can assume, from the rest of the account of creation as being VERY GOOD, so then the creation of the heavens and the earth in eternity were VERY GOOD as well.

But then, in verse 2, we see that the earth BECAME VOID or VACANT and things became CHAOTIC. To me, this was the result of the WAR in heaven that began when Lucifer rebelled against God to try and exalt his throne above the clouds to be like Yahweh. If this war in heaven is new to you and you have never heard that Genesis 1:2-28 is God RESTORING the earth back to its original perfect state then please read the study called “THE WAR IN HEAVEN-REVELATION 12!”.

So then, the Genesis account of creation from verse 3 to the end in verse 28 is God RE-CREATING or RESTORING the EARTH to its original created perfect state. Please read Genesis 1:27,28 for further evidence of this being a RE-CREATION of the earth around 6,000 years ago and NOT the ORIGINAL creation of heaven and earth in eternity past.

Genesis 1:27,28.

“So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female HE created them.

28.  And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and REPLENISH the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.”

Keep in mind that the earth BECAME VACANT after it was originally created very good to be inhabited in its ORIGINAL creation in Genesis 1:1 that was in eternity past. But from Genesis 1:3 on through Genesis 1:28 is the re-creation of the earth around six thousand years ago.

So to me, the whole entire Bible is dealing with the RE-CREATION of the earth AND with a NEW SPECIES of beings called HUMANS. In other words, since the Genesis account is the RE-CREATION of the earth, then BOTH the account in John 1:1-3 and in Proverbs 8:22-31 are ALSO speaking about the RE-CREATION of the earth.

Now before we get into Proverbs 8:22-31, I want you to ask yourself the question as to WHY God decided to go BACKWARD in his creation to created humans a little LOWER than his previous creation the angels? I mean ask yourself WHY would God create mankind to be INFERIOR to the angels and then exalt those made righteous in Jesus of mankind to JUDGE the angels? And WHY did God keep His CONTRIVANCES or His plan of salvation a SECRET? And from WHOM did God keep his contrivances a secret?

Here is how we know that God created mankind a little LOWER or inferior to the angels and also WHY God created humans inferior to his previous creation of the angels.

Please read this PROPHECY in Psalm 8:1-9.

“To the chief Musician upon Gittith, A Psalm of David. O LORD our Lord, (The LITERAL translation reads “Yahweh our Lords” in the plural. This means that there are TWO separate persons or beings who are BOTH named Yahweh. There is ONE Yahweh who is the only true God that has always existed without ever having a beginning. And then the first Yahweh highly exalted his FOSTER Son and gave him a NEW name that is Yahweh’s very own NAME, so that his SON would rule for him in the world to come for a 1000 years) how excellent is your NAME (Or how excellent is your Son Jesus whom you have given your very own NAME) in all the earth! WHO has set YOUR glory above the heavens. (There is another PROPHECY in Zechariah 14:9 that teaches us that Yahweh and his Son’s name will be ONE NAME in the world to come. “And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name ONE.” (In other words, every knee shall bow to the NAME of Jesus’ NEW NAME, which is Yahweh our righteousness. And every tongue shall confess that Yahweh’s SON is Lord TO the GLORY OF Yahweh, God the Father. For a deeper understanding of the NEW name of Jesus being Yahweh our righteousness please read the study called “WHAT DOES TAKING THE LORD’S NAME IN VAIN MEAN?”)

2.  Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings have YOU (Speaking of Yahweh, the ONE eternal Spirit) ordained strength (Speaking of Yahweh’s Messiah BECAUSE OF of YOUR ENEMIES, that YOU might still the enemy and the avenger. (This is speaking of putting an end to Satan, the fallen angels, and all evil at the end of the world to come, the 1000 year reign of Jesus)

3.  When I consider YOUR heavens, the work of YOUR fingers, the moon and the stars, which YOU have ordained;

4.  What is man, (Speaking of the human race of beings) that YOU are mindful of him? And the son of man, (This is speaking of Jesus, Yahweh’s Messiah, the strength Yahweh ordained to come into being) that YOU visit him?

5.  For YOU have made him a little LOWER than the angels, (Speaking of the HUMAN Son of God made in the likeness of all human beings during the days of his FLESH) AND (YOU also) have crowned him with glory and honor. (Speaking of Yahweh highly exalting the Son of MAN, Jesus, above all Yahweh’s creation, including the ANGELS who Yahweh will JUDGE BY the MAN Jesus Christ according to Acts 17:31 and John 5:22-27.)

6.  YOU made him to have dominion over the works of  YOUR hands; YOU have put all things under his feet: (This is speaking of all of mankind with a hidden PROPHECY of the Son of MAN, Jesus, being made to become both Lord and Christ by Yahweh)

7.  All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;

8.  The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passes through the paths of the seas.

9.  O LORD our Lord, (Again, the LITERAL translation reads “Yahweh our Lords” in the plural. This means that there are TWO separate persons or beings who are BOTH named Yahweh. There is ONE Yahweh who is the only true God that has always existed without ever having a beginning. And the first Yahweh then highly exalted his FOSTER Son and gave him a NEW name that is Yahweh’s very own NAME to rule for him in the world to come for a 1000 years) how excellent is YOUR NAME in all the earth!”

Now that you see that the Genesis account of creation is speaking of Yahweh’s RE-CREATION, the earth that BECAME void and vacant. And now that you have also seen that God created a new species of being that were LOWER or inferior to the angels BECAUSE OF his ENEMIES, speaking of Satan and the fallen angels. And now that you see that Jesus and his righteous saints will JUDGE Satan and the fallen angels at the end of the 1000 year reign of Jesus. Let us now read Proverbs 8:22-31 keeping in our minds that Yahweh, the Father, is RE-CREATING the earth FOR his yet future FOSTER Son to dwell in. For you see, even this present restored earth is just temporary. Yahweh will create the New Earth after the 1000 year reign of Jesus.

SECTION TWO

Here in this section of this in-depth Bible study, we will cover Proverbs 8:22-31 which is used to TRY and prove that Jesus preexisted. But in TRUTH, this passage of Scripture actually DISPROVES the doctrine of the Trinity and the doctrine of Oneness as Jesus being the CREATOR. Keep in mind that when Jesus read the Scriptures he knew that the Scriptures spoke of him as being the Messiah. So when the Son of MAN, Jesus, read Proverbs chapter 8, then Jesus saw and understood the THOUGHTS and PLANS that Almighty God for His yet future Son. Jesus saw how Yahweh’s yet future Son would REJOICE before Him in the habitable part of the earth BEFORE the earth was ever created for mankind to inhabit.

But before we do a verse by verse study on Proverbs 8:22-31 let us read Proverbs 8:1-22, skip over verses 23-31, read verses 32-36, and then we will cover verses 22-31 verse by verse in-depth. I will highlight the verses where you can clearly see that wisdom and understanding are speaking of Jesus as being the Messiah. Notice that wisdom and understanding speak to the sons of men as to how God speaks to us in these last days through His Son. It is wisdom who is doing the speaking as being WISDOM, the wisdom of Yahweh.

Please read Proverbs 8:1-22,32-36.

“Does not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice? 

2.  She stands in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths. 

3.  She cries at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors. 

4.  Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice is to the sons of man. 

5.  O you simple, understand wisdom: and, you fools, be you of an understanding heart. 

6.  Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things. 

7.  For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips. 

8.  All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them. 

9.  They are all plain to him that understands, and right to them that find knowledge. 

10.  Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold. 

11.  For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it. 

12.  I wisdom dwell with prudence and find out knowledge of witty inventions. 

13.  The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate. 

14.  Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength. 

15.  By me kings reign, and princes decree justice. 

16.  By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth. 

17.  I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me. 

18.  Riches and honor are with me; yea, durable riches, and righteousness. 

19.  My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver. 

20.  I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment: 

21.  That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures. 

22.  The LORD possessed me in the beginning of His way, before His works of old…

...32. Now, therefore, hearken unto me, O you children: for blessed are they that keep my ways. 

33.  Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not. 

34.  Blessed is the man that hears me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors. 

35.  For whoso finds me finds life and shall obtain favor of the LORD. 

36.  But he that sins against me wrongs his own soul: all they that hate me love death.”

Now, let us read Proverbs 3:13-18 so that you are sure to see and understand that WISDOM is a “personification” of Jesus. Wisdom POINTS to Jesus as the tree of eternal life. So the moral of the story to get WISDOM is to get Jesus and hold fast to him.

Proverbs 3:13-18.

“Happy is the man that finds wisdom and the man that gets understanding. 

14.  For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold. 

15.  She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her. 

16.  Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honor. 

17.  Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace. 

18.  She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retains her.”

So then, the SUBJECT of Proverbs chapter 8 is to get WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING. Wisdom is the knowledge of how to USE understanding. A person can understand that Jesus is the only way to the Father but that does not mean that they will APPLY that understanding. You can have the understanding to look both ways before you cross the street but that knowledge will do you no good unless you have the WISDOM to apply that understanding.

Please understand that wisdom is NOT a real literal person who existed with God in eternity past. But rather Yahweh ACQUIRED wisdom. In other words, Yahweh devised a PLAN in His mind and thoughts. And IN Yahweh’s WISDOM was Jesus. Every Christian knows and understands that Jesus was SLAIN from the FOUNDATION of the world but that does not mean that Jesus literally preexisted in eternity past as a literal Lamb that was literally slain before the foundation of the world. Every Christian knows and understands that Jesus was slain in the MIND and PLAN of Yahweh's plan of salvation to one day be slain or crucified on the cross. So God's secret plan to have Satan crucify Jesus by stirring up the Jews to have the Romans crucify the Son of MAN, Jesus, was Yahweh’s WISDOM in Yahweh’s THOUGHT and mind before God created Adam and Eve. That is HOW Jesus preexisted. That is what Proverbs 8:22-31 TRULY means in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of Almighty God.

Now we will take a CLOSE look at Proverbs 8:22-31. I will highlight all the words and pronouns referring to Yahweh the Father in orange. And I will highlight the prophecies referring to Jesus in yellow. The other highlighted words are for emphasis.

Here is a CLOSER look at Proverbs 8:22-31 taking verse by verse one at a time.

Proverbs 8:22.

“The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before His works of old.”

Now let us take a closer look at the meanings of different words in verse 22. Some Christians incorrectly interpret verses in the New Testament as Jesus CREATING all things which they claim proves that Jesus is Yahweh Himself.

But IF one interprets Proverbs 8:22-31 as Jesus literally pre-existing in eternity past, then they ALSO must be consistent in their interpreting of the Scriptures as Yahweh ALONE and by Himself as being the creator. For you see, IF this passage of Scripture was intended to mean that Jesus literally pre-existed then this passage of Scripture PROVES that Jesus did NOT lift one finger to create ANYTHING. I will point this out as we get to the verses where Jesus is WATCHING Yahweh doing the creating.

“22. The LORD (Referring to YAHWEH the Lord God Almighty, who we know is the FATHER alone)

possessed ME (Speaking of Yahweh possessing Jesus. The word POSSESSED means to acquire, to procure with great care and effort, to create, and to bring forth into existence. This word also means to purchase and to redeem. In other words, God is revealing His THOUGHTS to us of His yet future Son) in the beginning of HIS way, (Or more precisely, God is making plans for His Son to be the CHIEF of His WAY. All of the meanings of God “possessing” His Son speak of ACQUIRING his SON in the future. So Proverbs chapter 8 is actually teaching us that Jesus not only had a BEGINNING but also, that this passage of Scripture is PROPHECY of yet a future fulfillment concerning Jesus. Proverbs 8:22-31 does NOT teach us of a literal PRE-EXISTING Jesus. In other words. Yahweh acquired WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING which were the THOUGHTS of one day having a righteous Son whom He would highly exalt to become His King of kings and Lord of lords. When you truly take a closer look at Proverbs 8:22-31 in the LIGHT of the entire chapter then you can see that God FORMED THOUGHTS within himself as an IMAGE in His MIND)  before HIS WORKS of old.” 

The meaning of the word “WORKS” here LITERALLY means PRECEDING his CONTRIVANCES of old. And this word contrivance means that God had his Son in MIND preceding his CLEVERLY DEVISED ingenious PLAN. And God’s PLAN of SALVATION was to have an INNOCENT MAN be SLAIN without cause so that Yahweh could redeem or buy back his creation called the HUMANS that he has not yet created PRECEDING the foundation of the world. And the Hebrew word that is translated as “of OLD” also means Yahweh’s works “AT THAT TIME”. Please read the study “WHAT DOES THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD TRULY MEAN?” 

You see dear children of God, the creation account in Genesis chapter 1 is the RESTORING of the earth some 6,000 years ago and NOT the first original creation of the earth in eternity past. God created a NEW species of beings called the humans a little lower or inferior to his previous creation the ANGELS to replace the 1/3 of the angels that rebelled and made war against God under the leadership of Lucifer who is now known as Satan or the Devil. And Proverbs 8:22-31 is a prophecy that is revealing to us a PART of God's ingenious plan of salvation and to also prove that He created Lucifer perfect in all his ways. And thus, God will clear His own name for His own sake that was being defamed by the false accusation from Lucifer BLAMING God for his own pride-filled sin saying that God created him evil. And thus, according to Satan, it was not his fault that he attacked God’s throne to try and exalt his throne above the stars of God to be like Yahweh. And, therefore, in Satan’s mind, God has no right to judge him. Please read all the studies under the heading >>>WHY ARE WE HERE-IS GOD AT WAR?<<< These studies teach the BIG picture of WHY God even created the human race. And they cover many of the verses that answer many questions Christian have such as WHY does God allow evil in the world? 

Please understand that this verse here in Proverbs chapter 8, like all verses in the Bible, must be interpreted in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of God and AGREE with the rest of God's word. If one interprets this verse alone and apart from the rest of God's word it may SEEM that Jesus was brought forth BEFORE the foundation of the world in eternity past and that God’s Son LITERALLY preexisted by the side of God as a SECOND person or divine eternal being as God the Son. However, in the light of the WHOLE word of God,  you will see that the correct meaning of this verse is that Jesus is God’s FIRST DESIRE WITHIN Himself to have a RIGHTEOUS SON to replace Lucifer as the caretaker of the earth BEFORE God begins re-creating or preparing a HABITABLE PLACE on the earth FOR His yet future Son. 

For you see, the earth BECAME void and empty during the Luciferian flood that ended that stage of the war between Lucifer and Yahweh. You see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, when you read Proverbs 8:22-31 as Yahweh preparing a place for His yet future Son, then you can see Yahweh as being like we see proud EXPECTING parents awaiting their unborn child while they are PREPARING a room for their YET COMING child. Let us continue with verse 23.

Proverbs 8:23.

“ I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth WAS.”

Now let us take a closer look at the meanings of different words in verse 23.

“23. I was set up (This Hebrew word translated as “set up” has several meanings. One meaning is that God INAUGURATED his yet future Son or God APPOINTED his yet future Son to be His King of kings during the Millennial age. And Yahweh planned and prophesied His plan of salvation) FROM everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth WAS.” 

Also, the Hebrew word translated as “set up” in the King James Version, carries the meaning of being POURED OUT as a drink offering is poured out. So when we take this meaning and we compare it to the Scriptures that teach us that Jesus is the LAMB that was SLAIN from BEFORE the foundation of the world, then we can see that Proverbs 8:22-31 is a PROPHECY about a YET FUTURE fulfillment from the time it was SPOKEN by God and then written down by men of old. 

We all KNOW that Jesus was NOT LITERALLY SLAIN BEFORE the foundation of the world. And in the same way, Jesus did NOT LITERALLY PREEXIST by the side of God BEFORE the foundation of the world. But rather, the SON OF God only existed in God's MIND as an IMAGE WITHIN God before the foundation of the world. So then, it was AS IF his Son was BY his side where God had WITHIN him an IMAGE of his yet FUTURE Son before the foundation of the world. 

You may not agree with this interpretation as yet, so I ask that you please humor me and read these verses seeing God as a proud parent EXPECTING his yet UNBORN child. At least try and see these verses as God preparing a place, as in, restoring the destroyed earth to once again be HABITABLE, FOR or FOR the SAKE OF his yet future unborn SON to INHERIT, who is yet to be brought into existence as the spoken word of prophecy made flesh and then glorified after the cross because of his love for righteousness. 

Now let us look at the last part of verse 23 to learn WHEN Jesus was inaugurated as King and SET UP.

“23. ...FROM everlasting, FROM the beginning, or ever the earth WAS.”   

The words “from everlasting” come from two Hebrew words. Here are the Strong’s numbers so you can see the compound word translated as “from everlasting”. 

“I was set up H5258 from everlasting, H4480 H5769…”

And here is how E-Sword defines these two words.

H4480

מִנֵּי    מִנִּי      מִן

min    minnı̂y    minnêy

min, min-nee', min-nay'

For H4482; properly a part of; hence (prepositionally), from or out of in many senses: - above, after, among, at, because of, by (reason of), from (among), in, X neither, X nor, (out) of, over, since, X then, through, X whether, with.

H5769

עֹלָם    עוֹלָם

‛ôlâm    ‛ôlâm

o-lawm', o-lawm'

From H5956; properly concealed, that is, the vanishing point; generally time out of mind (past or future), that is, (practically) eternity; frequentative adverbially (especially with prepositional prefix) always: - always (-s), ancient (time), any more, continuance, eternal, (for, [n-]) ever (-lasting, -more, of old), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), perpetual, at any time, (beginning of the) world (+ without end). Compare H5331, H5703.

Let us put together what we have so far before we look at the rest of verse 23. Yahweh devised a plan to set things back in order BECAUSE OF something that happened a long time ago in ancient times to the earth. God’s yet future Son was appointed to be King BECAUSE OF what happened BEFORE the earth was RESTORED to be HABITABLE once again.

Now let us look at the rest of that last part of verse 23 to learn WHY Jesus was inaugurated as King and SET UP.

“23. ...FROM everlasting, FROM the beginning, or ever the earth WAS.”  

The Hebrew word translated as “from the BEGINNING” also means to SHAKE. It also means the head and the RULER. So because of what happened to the earth a long time ago by reason of the SHAKING of the earth and its ruler, Lucifer is WHY God devised a plan to highly exalt His firstborn Son in the future to be a king above the kings of the earth to REPLACE Lucifer as the God of the whole earth.

Keep in mind that I am interpreting Proverbs 8:22-31 by its CONTEXT and in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of Almighty God. I am using the OTHER meanings of the Hebrew words that best fit the WHOLE word of God. Here is how E-Sword defines the Hebrew word translated “from the beginning”.

H7218

רֹאשׁ

rô'sh

roshe

From an unused root apparently meaning to shake; the head (as most easily shaken), whether literally or figuratively (in many applications, of place, time, rank, etc.): - band, beginning, captain, chapiter, chief (-est place, man, things), company, end, X every [man], excellent, first, forefront, ([be-]) head, height, (on) high (-est part, [priest]), X lead, X poor, principal, ruler, sum, top.

In other words, there was ANOTHER “beginning” where God RESTORED the earth to be habitable again AFTER God SHOOK the earth and its RULER, Lucifer because of his rebellion to make war with his creator to take over Yahweh's throne. Let us continue with verse 24.

Proverbs 8:24.

“24. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.” 

Now let us take a closer look at the meanings of different words in verse 24.

Clearly, no matter how one interprets the rest of Proverbs chapter 8, Jesus was brought forth into existence which proves that God’s Son did NOT always pre-exist without ever having a beginning. And that means that the doctrine of the Trinity is NOT sound Biblical teaching.

But in the light of the rest of God’s word concerning the earth BECAME void by the judgment of God to FLOOD the earth to bring the war to a stand-still was the “WHEN” that Yahweh contrived His ingenious plan of salvation. Let us read verse 24 again. 

“24. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; (The phrase, “when there were no depths”, means the time after the floodwaters ceased to be poured out. In other words, God lifts His wrath after bringing the war to a stand-still. The LITERAL meaning of this word “brought forth” means TRAVAILED as a woman in labor pains about to BIRTH a yet unborn child. This word also means to WAIT PATIENTLY or to look forward to with patience. This again, teaches us that Jesus, the SON OF God, was still yet WITHIN the God, who was anxiously AWAITING his Son to be brought forth or born of the Virgin Mary. And then God’s FIRSTBORN Son from the dead would forever be God's ETERNAL Son by his right-hand side LITERALLY. 

So all these words in this passage of Scripture teach us that Jesus was BEING brought forth in the MIND of God as part of God's CONTRIVANCE to prove to Lucifer, the fallen angels, and to the good angels, as well, that ALL that God creates is PERFECT in the day He created them. And, therefore, Yahweh has every right to judge Lucifer and the fallen angels. And all this is taking place in God's MIND BEFORE the re-creation of the earth that was destroyed or made waste in the WAR between God and the fallen angels who were trying to take over God's throne. Again, please read all of the studies under the heading >>>WHY ARE WE HERE-IS GOD AT WAR?<<< And in those studies you will find all the verses that show what I am saying about this war or rebellion of Lucifer and the fallen angels. But for now, please understand that God was TRAVAILING or if you will PREGNANT with his yet unborn SON) when there were no fountains abounding with water.”

And this last phrase in verse 24 means after the flooding ceased and the earth was still yet flooded there were no satisfying fountains of spring waters as yet was WHEN God contrived His plan of RESTORATION of all things.

Now let us take a closer look at the meanings of different words in verse 25.

Proverbs 8:25. 

“25. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:” 

The meaning of brought forth is the same as above. So again, this means that Jesus was yet in the womb of God's MIND and a deep DESIRE WITHIN Himself BEING brought forth into existence by the spoken word of PROPHECY that would be fulfilled in stages. Remember Exodus 3:14 where God says in the King James Version, “I AM THAT I AM”, which LITERALLY means “I SHALL BECOME WHO I AM BECOMING”. In other words, the whole Bible is about God ENDING evil and replacing evil with a NEW creation of RIGHTEOUS people who will never rebel against God.

The word translated as “before” also means not yet. And the meaning of the mountains being settled means that when the mountains were not yet being drowned or flooded before the mountains and hills could be seen again, I was BROUGHT FORTH in the mind and plan of God as His WAY to restore righteousness in the earth. Let us move to verse 26.

Proverbs 8:26.

“While as yet He had NOT made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.”

Now let us take a closer look at the meanings of different words in verse 26.    

“26. While as yet HE (Almighty God) had NOT made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.” 

Now, those who teach the PREEXISTENCE of Jesus also teach that Jesus HIMSELF created ALL things. But yet, ALL the verses in the OLD Testament CLEARLY and PLAINLY in SIMPLICITY teach us that Almighty God Himself ALONE and by HIMSELF created ALL things. Please read the study “EPHESIANS 3:9 DID JESUS CREATE ALL THINGS?” for sound Biblical teaching letting the Bible speak for ITSELF. And the Bible itself clearly shows that Almighty God HIMSELF created ALL things FOR or FOR the SAKE of His SON, Jesus, just like Proverbs 8:22-31 is teaching us. Again, all the accounts of creation in the Bible are speaking of [a] beginning and NOT [the] beginning in eternity past. Please read the study “WHAT DOES JOHN 1:1 TRULY MEAN?” And for a better understanding of why Proverbs 8:22-31 is speaking of Almighty God RESTORING the earth FOR His Son that He would bring forth into existence at the virgin birth of His HUMAN Son, please read all the studies under the heading >>>WHY ARE WE HERE-IS GOD AT WAR?<<<

But for now, please know that the word translated as “earth” also means LAND. So before God made the DRY Land appear and the highest part of the DUST of the earth to be dry again is WHEN God planned to have a Messiah. God did not wait until Adam sinned to contrive His plan of salvation. Jesus was SLAIN in the mind and plan of God BEFORE the foundation of the world. God already knew the REWARDS He would give to those who endure unto the end to be saved before God restored the earth to be habitable once again. This brings us to verse 27.

Proverbs 8:27.

“When He prepared the heavens, I was there: when He set a compass upon the face of the depth:”

Now let us take a closer look at the meanings of different words in verse 27. 

“27. When HE (Almighty God alone and by Himself) prepared the heavens, I was there (Meaning that Jesus was there, as in, God's yet future Son was in His THOUGHTS and DESIRES WITHIN Yahweh Himself as if his yet unborn Son was literally by his side while HE was PREPARING a place FOR ME to INHERIT. Remember that God is prophesying these words TO His yet future Son so that when the Son of MAN read these words, he would know how much his God and Father LOVES him. That is why this passage of Scripture is written in the first person as if Jesus was actually there speaking these words. But as you will see in a moment by the CONTEXT, Jesus was NOT actually brought into existence yet) when HE set a compass upon the face of the depth:”

The LITERAL meaning of God setting a COMPASS upon the face of the deep is “INTO DELINEATE OF HIM”. This means that God was drawing out, sketching out, making a blueprint, designing WITHIN Himself in his THOUGHTS, and IMAGINING how He would prepare a place for his yet unborn SON. The word DELINEATE also means to PICTURE as WORDS or to PORTRAY in WORDS. To say this another way, God was PICTURING in his MIND within Himself FORMING words WITHIN Himself to portray the exact IMAGE of His yet future Messiah. That FORM of His future Messiah was WITHIN Himself before the restoring of the earth to yet bring it forth into existence, WHILE Jesus, his yet unborn Son, was the CENTER of this IMAGE that God had within himself. God was designing a PORTRAIT of the IMAGE within himself to CREATE His Messiah a little lower and INFERIOR to the angels for a REASON. And that reason is so that an INFERIOR human will JUDGE the fallen angels as guilty as charged so that the good angels will know that Yahweh is a just and righteous God. Again, notice that Yahweh alone and by Himself is the one doing the recreating of the earth. Let us move to verse 28.

Proverbs 8:28.

“When He established the clouds above: when He strengthened the fountains of the deep:”

Now let us take a closer look at the meanings of different words in verse 28.

Again, notice that Yahweh is doing ALL the creating. I keep saying this because some Christians interpret the phrase “I was THERE” in verse 27 as Jesus literally pre-existing in eternity past. And every Christian that believes and teaches that Jesus pre-existed in eternity past ALSO teach that Jesus IS the CREATOR who created all things based upon their INCORRECT interpretations of a few verses in the New Testament. Please read all the studies under the heading >>>IS JESUS THE CREATOR?<<< 

But for now, I would like you to consider a dual meaning of verses 28, and 29. The Hebrew word translated as “established” the clouds above also means to PREVAIL. So picture God being at WAR with Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels that joined Lucifer to try and take over God’s throne. This is no small war. Satan drew ONE-THIRD of the angels to his side. That only leaves two good angels to fight each fallen angel. Anyway, God PREVAILS to push back all the fallen angels that are ABOVE the clouds to the earth to restrict them to the atmosphere of the earth.

The Hebrew word translated as “strengthened” the fountains of the deep also means to PREVAIL. The word translated as fountains also means the eye, the knowledge, and the outward appearance. The word deep means the abyss. In other words, God not only prevailed over all the fallen angels ABOVE the clouds, but He also PREVAILED over their plans to regroup and attack God’s throne again. For you see, God had many of the fallen angels BOUND in CHAINS in the abyss or the bottomless pit. So why let some roam the earth and bind the other angels in the bottomless pit? Why not bind ALL of them, including Satan in the bottomless pit? To me, it is all a part of God's ingenious plan to trap Satan in his lies to judge Satan guilty as charged. But to do that God needed a FAITHFUL WITNESS and Jesus is that faithful witness against Satan and the fallen angels. That is all God NEEDED but you see, God will be destroy one third of his angels. Therefore, God, in His plan of salvation is creating new creatures of righteousness IN His righteous Son Jesus in order to REPLACE the fallen angels. This is why we are called a great cloud of witness because we will also JUDGE the angels. 

Please read Jude 1:6. 

“And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.”

Now let us continue with verse 29 to see how verse 28, and verse 29 tie together with dual meanings. Go ahead and read verse 28 again with the meaning of god PREVAILING over the fallen angels.

“28: When HE established the clouds above: when HE strengthened the fountains of the deep:”

Proverbs 8:29.

“29. When HE gave to the sea HIS decree, that the waters should not pass HIS commandment: when HE appointed the foundations of the earth:”

Now let us take a closer look at the meanings of different words in verse 29.

“29. When HE gave to the sea (The word “SEA” in Bible prophecy refers to the wicked. So the hidden meaning of this phrase is that Yahweh gave to Satan and the fallen angels) HIS decree, that the waters (The word “waters” in Bible prophecy speaks of people and multitudes. So God is setting LIMITS to Satan and the fallen angels that they are to go so far and no further. Meaning that Satan and the fallen angels) should not pass HIS commandment: when HE appointed (DESIGNED or delineated in Himself ) the foundations of the earth:”

The word “foundations” of the earth does NOT mean  LITERAL foundations. This word speaks of the RULES that God ordained. It also spiritually means that God has APPOINTED only RIGHTEOUS people to be the PILLARS of the earth. Again, not literal pillars, but rather RULERS over the earth in the world to come.

Some of you may still not yet see that Proverbs 8:22-31 is PROPHECY of a yet future Son that has been fulfilled in Jesus. So let us continue with verse 30.

Proverbs 8:30.

“Then I was by Him, AS ONE brought up with Him: and I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him;”

Now let us take a closer look at the meanings of different words in verse 30.     

“30. Then I was BY Him, AS ONE brought up WITH Him: (Now these last two verses, verse 30, and verse 31, which we still need to read, clearly teach us that this passage of Scripture is a PROPHECY of the future fulfillment of God's SON being brought forth into existence. Please notice that it was AS IF Jesus was by his side WHILE God Himself was PREPARING the world FOR or FOR the SAKE OF his yet unborn Son. Please notice in the next verse that Jesus was REJOICING IN the habitable part of the EARTH that had NOT YET been created as yet, but was still yet in the MIND and PLAN of God WITHIN himself yet to be brought forth into existence) and I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him;”

But before we read verse 31, I want to cover the other meanings of the Hebrew words in verse 30. The Hebrew word translated as “BY” Him literally means in the sense of JOINING Him. Here is how E-Sword defines this Hebrew word.

H681

אֵצֶל

'êtsel

ay'-tsel

From H680 (in the sense of joining); a side; (as a preposition) near: - at, (hard) by, (from) (beside), near (unto), toward, with. See also H1018.

And the Hebrew word translated as I “WAS” by Him means “TO BECOME”. So again, this is a PROPHECY of Yahweh's yet future Son coming into existence to JOIN Yahweh at Yahweh's right hand. The word “brought up” means TRAINING. The Son of MAN, Jesus was TAUGHT how to refuse the evil and to choose the good.

Here is how E-Sword defines the Hebrew word translated as “WAS” by Him in Proverbs 8:30.

הָיָה

hâyâh

haw-yaw'

A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.

And here is how E-Sword defines the Hebrew word that is translated “as one brought up with him”

H525

אָמוֹן

'âmôn

aw-mone'

From H539, probably in the sense of training; skilled, that is, an architect (like H542): - one brought up.

Here is where it really gets interesting! What was Jesus in training FOR? What is the END fulfillment of PROPHECY? Where is Jesus NOW? He is at the RIGHT HAND of the Father. Now let us read the meaning of the root word of the Hebrew word translated as one brought up which means in the sense of training that person being raised for some purpose in the future.

H539

אָמַן

'âman

aw-man'

A primitive root; properly to build up or support; to foster as a parent or nurse; figuratively to render (or be) firm or faithful, to trust or believe, to be permanent or quiet; morally to be true or certain; once (in Isa_30:21; by interchange for H541) to go to the right hand: - hence assurance, believe, bring up, establish, + fail, be faithful (of long continuance, steadfast, sure, surely, trusty, verified), nurse, (-ing father), (put), trust, turn to the right.

Now let us put all these meanings together before we read Proverbs 8:31. Here is verse 30 with more precise meanings.

Proverbs 8:30.

“30. Then I was BY Him, AS ONE brought up WITH Him : (Or more precisely, I am becoming to be existing to JOIN Him at his right-hand side. I am becoming to be existing AS ONE being Fathered by Him as a foster child to be trained in the way that I should go for the purpose of being seated at His right hand) and I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him;”

Or more precisely, there is becoming a DAY, as in, an AGE from one sunset to the next sunset, that I will be His DELIGHT rejoicing the whole time before him. Now let us read Proverbs 8:31 to see WHEN that AGE will be.

Proverbs 8:31.

“31. Rejoicing IN the HABITABLE part of His EARTH; and my delights were with the sons of men.”

How could Proverbs 8:22-31 possibly mean that Jesus pre-existed in eternity past when verse 31 clearly teaches us that Jesus is rejoicing before Yahweh IN the HABITABLE part of the earth when Yahweh had not yet restored the earth to be HABITABLE once again? To me, the only way that this is possible is for Jesus to be in the MIND and PLAN of God to bring forth into existence for the purpose of being inaugurated as His King of kings and Lord of lords to JOIN Him to be seated at His right-hand side to rule for Yahweh in the world to come.

When you read the ENTIRE chapter 8 of Proverbs then you can clearly see that Jesus is being personified as being WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING that Yahweh ACQUIRED at the beginning of His WAY. Please see the FULL verse by verse study on the whole chapter of Proverbs chapter 8 called “WHAT DOES PROVERBS 8:22-31 TRULY MEAN?” But for now, let us take a closer look at the meanings of different words in verse 31.

“31. Rejoicing IN the HABITABLE part of His EARTH, and my delights were with the sons of men.”

Again, these last two verses, verse 30 and verse 31, clearly teach us that Proverb 8:22-31 is a PROPHECY of God’s yet coming Son of MAN to be His Messiah. For you see, we see Jesus rejoicing in the EARTH that has NOT YET been CREATED.

Let us take an even CLOSER look at the LITERAL meanings of some of these words in these last two verses. The LITERAL translation of Proverbs 8:30, 31.

Here is the LITERAL translation of Proverbs 8:30,31.

“And I was beside him FOSTER CHILD and I was delectation day [after] day one GAMBOLING to faces of him all of the time.

31. One GAMBOLING inhabiting of the earth of him and delectation of me the sons of humans.”

So then, ALL OF THE TIME WHILE God was PREPARING the uninhabitable earth that became void and empty to become habitable FOR His yet unborn Son, God was PORTRAYING or painting a portrait in his MIND. Yahweh was forming an IMAGE of His yet future God to replace Lucifer. But first, God was PICTURING His yet future unborn SON GAMBOLING in the restored EARTH that God is yet PREPARING FOR or FOR the SAKE OF His yet unborn FOSTER child. And God was DELIGHTING over His yet coming unborn Son that would come into BY declaring the END from the beginning with His word of PROPHECY.

Now, some hardcore Trinitarian Christians may not agree with my interpretation of Proverbs 8:22-31 as being a PROPHECY of God’s yet future Son to be born of a virgin but at least most of my readers can see that, IF SO BE the Jesus literally pre-existed in eternity past, he did not lift one finger to CREATE anything. But rather, according to Proverbs 8:22-31, Jesus WATCHED Yahweh do the CREATING. So how do Trinitarians reconcile their INTERPRETATION of some New Testament verses to mean that Jesus created ALL THINGS? Or that God created all things BY or THROUGH God the Son? For the correct sound Biblical true meaning of those New Testament verses that SEEM to be saying that Jesus is the creator, please read all the studies under the heading >>>IS JESUS THE CREATOR?<<< 

When we see Jesus as being a FOSTER child first being born as fully human void of any divine nature then we can see the TRUE meaning of being ANOINTED with the Holy Spirit and power from on high. But when we see Jesus as being fully God and fully man at the same time then the TRUE meaning of being ANOINTED is lost. In other words, both Trinitarian Christians and Oneness Christians see Jesus as being fully Almighty God Himself in the flesh having TWO natures at the same time, one divine and one human. And when you see Jesus as being fully Almighty God Himself then how can you TRULY believe that you can follow the steps of Jesus to live YOUR life without sin? But when you see Jesus as your BROTHER and your fellow servant who was anointed with the SAME anointing that YOU have then you can truly have faith to BELIEVE that YOU can do the SAME works that Jesus did THOUGH the power of the Holy Spirit who dwelt in him. 

The word “FOSTER” is NOT a bad word. It simply means to raise up a child that is NOT OF your own blood. And in this case, Yahweh FOSTERED a child that was NOT of his own God's OWN DIVINE NATURE, as yet. You see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, when Almighty God Himself brought His Son into existence, God stripped His SPOKEN divine word prophecy which is Spirit nature of ALL ITS DIVINE nature to take on HUMAN NATURE. The word in John 1:1 was not a separate person in the eternity past, but rather, the spoken word of PROPHECY became FLESH. And then AFTER the cross the HUMAN Son of God was MADE Lord by his God and Father to JOIN his God to sit on his Father's throne. So now after the cross, Jesus will rule during the world to come FOR Yahweh in the NAME OF Yahweh as God of the earth as the SECOND person in command. But even then, that still does not mean that Jesus IS the Almighty God Himself. It simply means that Almighty God MADE Himself A God to rule over the earth to PROVE that a human made lower that the angels could rule in PEACE without ANY WAR so that God can JUDGE Satan BY the MAN Jesus the FAITHFUL WITNESS to be found guilty as changed. And then God will destroy Satan and the fallen angels in the lake of fire. And consequently God must honor His word and also destroy all the unsaved as well even though the everlasting fire was only made for the devil and the fallen angels. Please read the study “WHAT DOES GOD INCARNATE TRULY MEAN?” for what the BIBLE ITSELF teaches and NOT what the mainstream churches teach. So then, once again, it was AFTER the cross that the Son of MAN, Jesus BECAME God’s ETERNAL Son to be made a partaker of the DIVINE NATURE of immortality. For you see, Jesus did not take on the divine nature of Almighty God Father by becoming IMMORTAL, until AFTER his death and resurrection. That is when his God and Father GAVE the Son of MAN, Jesus, immortality, or eternal life, the same LIFE that the Father has always possessed in Himself. 

Please read John 5:26,27.

“For AS the Father HAS life IN himself; so has He GIVEN TO the Son to have life in himself; 

27.  And has GIVEN him authority to execute judgment also, BECAUSE he is the Son of MAN.”

Everything that Jesus IS and has was GIVEN TO him NOT because Jesus IS Almighty God HIMSELF, and NOT because Jesus is the SON OF Almighty God, but rather, it is BECAUSE Jesus was the Son of MAN. 

Let us get back closely examining Proverbs 8:22-31 by going even deeper into the meaning of verses 30 and 31 so that we see God delighting over his Son. When we delight over someone that means that we LOVE that person. The root word from which this Hebrew word translated as “DELIGHTING” in the original text comes from means to DANDLE. And the English word to dandle means to bounce up and down on one's knee or to bounce in one's cradled arms that brings so much JOY to the one doing the dandling. 

I can envision that JOY that Yahweh had for his yet unborn FOSTER son WHILE He was restoring the earth to be habitable again FOR the sake of His future Messiah.  Just as a side note, Jesus says that God loves us because we have loved him. And when we make the effort to pour out our whole being in praise and worship to show our love to the Father and to His Son then God honors our love for His Son by allowing us to feel His PRESENCE. I have FELT the loving arms of God's presence giving me a big hug many times. And each time His loving presence overwhelms me so much that I begin to cry out loud trembling with even more joy, praise, and love for God. One time, during a church service, I was interceding for others to join in with me as I was worshiping God with my whole being. I did not want the worship service to stop. My heart was longing for all my brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, to TRULY enter into praise and worship with their whole being to feel the presence of God like I was feeling. And when the singing and praise stopped we all sat down. But WITHIN myself I kept on worshiping God enjoying His presence and that is when his presence INCREASED BEYOND what I had ever felt before. I could literally feel His arms around me squeezing me giving me a HUG showing HIS excitement of my worship to him. And more so, I believe that it was because I prayed so fervently for my brothers and sisters in the Lord to truly KNOW the LOVE that God has for them.  Please read the study “ALMIGHTY GOD LOVES YOU SO MUCH!” But for now, let us continue looking at the deeper meaning of Proverbs 8:30,31.

Then we see Jesus GAMBOLING which means dancing around skipping and playing in the EARTH that God has NOT YET prepared FOR or FOR the SAKE OF his yet future Son, Jesus. So to me, Proverbs 8:31 clearly and plainly teaches us that Jesus did NOT LITERALLY PRE-EXIST by his God and Father’s SIDE as a separate divine eternal Spirit being called God the SON in eternity past. Again, both Trinitarian Christians and Oneness Christians CLAIM that Jesus created ALL things. Even the Jehovah's Witnesses teach that Jesus is the creator, as in, God created Jesus first, and then Jesus created everything else. But yet the Jehovah’s Witnesses do NOT believe that Jesus is God. They believe that Jesus is [A] God the same as all Unitarian Christians including myself. But to me, how can a created CREATURE be the creator of the universe. That is when I took a CLOSER look at all the verses in the New Testament that SEEM to be saying that Jesus is the creator of everything that exists. 

All Christians agree that the Bible ITSELF does NOT contradict itself. But in TRUTH, the INTERPRETATION of Jesus PREEXISTING in eternity past and also as being the CREATOR of all things clearly CONTRADICTS what we read in Proverbs chapter 8, IF SO BE, that Jesus LITERALLY pre-existed in eternity past as the creator. For you see, we clearly see right here in this passage of Scripture that the DESIGNER, Architect, builder, and the CREATOR of all things is Almighty God Himself having His yet future SON in His MIND while He Himself is doing all of this FOR or For the SAKE OF his SON Jesus. And if one INTERPRETS Proverbs 8:22-31 as Jesus LITERALLY pre-existing then one MUST also interpret all the verses in the New Testament that SEEM to be saying that Jesus is the creator of all THINGS to mean that “BECAUSE OF” Jesus, God’s NEW CREATION of righteous humans created IN Jesus will be given the right to become partakers of the divine nature of immortality along with the now glorified Son of MAN, Jesus. 

Please read the study “WHAT DOES FIRSTBORN OF EVERY CREATURE TRULY MEAN?”

Thanks for reading and may God bless you richly as you CONTINUE to seek the TRUTH of the WHOLE word of Almighty God. Below is a complete list of all the studies that I have which show WHY I no longer believe in the doctrine of the Trinity and why I can NEVER believe in the doctrine of Oneness. I assure you that every verse that SEEMS to be saying that Jesus pre-existed in eternity past has another meaning that does NOT contradict any other verses of Scripture in the entire Bible.

Your brother in our Lord Jesus Christ,

Brother Mark.

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