R-6. QUESTIONS ABOUT THE TRINITY GODHEAD?

TRINITY QUESTIONS FROM MY READERS

or

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS about the Trinity GODHEAD?

Is God TRULY a TRINITY Godhead made up of three separate PERSONS in the ONE God?

         Greetings to all my readers hear at AMatterOfTruth.com where I do my best to present all the evidence from all the different viewpoints of each controversial teaching that God lays upon my heart to research and to write a sound Biblical study and then leave it to YOU my readers to decide what is the truth of the WHOLE word of Almighty God.

         I do not place these questions or my researched answers in any particular order as of importance, but I am going to start with the questions that I have received from my readers dealing with or pertaining to the doctrine of the trinity and the deity of Jesus, because this seems to be one of the top leading topics of discussions and questions that I receive.

         I will use the first name only of those who write to me and if any of my readers wish their name to be deleted, then upon their request I will delete their name and substitute an alias name.

So then let us begin this collection of frequently asked question with the questions asked by brother JD which stand for John Doe who desires to remain anonymous. So then, our dear brother in the Lord, JD writes the following questions:

         QUESTION #1. Does Revelation 3:14 say or mean that Jesus was the FIRST creature of God to be created followed by the creatures like angels, the animals then humans? And if so, then does this prove that Jesus PRE EXISTED as an angel being the first born of all creatures?

         ANSWER to question #1:

         Hi JD

         There are many meanings of the Greek word "arche" that has been TRANSLATED to the English word "beginning" in the King James and other translations of the Bible, so therefore many meanings or INTERPRETATIONS or OPINIONS can be deduced from Revelation 3:14.

         Let us start with the meanings of this Greek word "arche", which means in the English language the following:

         Beginning.... which also mean the starting of something, as in, Jesus was the REASON for which all creation was created.

         Origin...or original, the pattern, the image, the end goal to be achieved. Jesus was created, born or brought into existence BY the SPOKEN word of Almighty God. Jesus is referred to as the Word of God, because Jesus was brought into the world BY the word of God. So keep in mind that Revelation is an idiom DESCRIBING the nature of Jesus. He is FAITHFUL. He is the TRUE WITNESS. He is the WORD, the origin, the "arche".

         First...The word first is very plain and simple, BUT to WHICH FIRST is this verse referring? Keep in mind that the book of Revelation is written to the FAITHFUL the called out ones the NEW CREATURES in Jesus Christ where Jesus was the FIRST BORN from the dead of MANY brethren. You see Zaire those who dogmatically demand that Jesus was the very first creation of Almighty God only have one agenda on their minds and that is the try and prove that Jesus has always existed WITHOUT a BEGINNING and therefore they falsely conclude that Jesus IS THE Almighty God, but yet Jesus is not the Father. To ME this verse is speaking of Jesus being the first NEW creature or creation of Almighty God the FIRSTBORN, the FIRST FRUIT and NOT the very first creation of Almighty God. However I am not total closed minded to the THEORY or the INTERPRETATION that the very first CREATION of God was his SPOKEN WORD who was later GIVEN the name JESUS, which means the salvation of YEHWEH. In other words, I leave myself open to the idea that Jesus MAY have pre-existed with God as SPIRIT it the FORM of God's WORD. This is deeper than I care to go right now and I myself am still trying to see if this theory contradicts any other part of God's word. The meaning first being the first NEW creature does NOT in any way contraction any other part of God's word.

         Ruler...This Greek word "arche" also means RULER, POWER, AUTHORITY Jesus was GIVEN all authority and power and dominion and ruler or kingship over his God and Father's kingdom. The previous verse tell us that we who overcome shall sit down in his God and Father's throne to rule with Jesus as NEW CREATURES in Jesus Christ. We will be made a PILLAR in God's temple. What is a pillar of the community? It is a place of power an authority. A position of honor and respect. A position of leadership.

         So you see JD, ANY one of these definitions of the Greek word "arche" COULD have been chosen by the TRANSLATORS. They could have chosen the meaning "RULER" of the creation of God, but they chose what they chose based upon what they personally believed or what they were TAUGHT to believe without question. The truth of the matter is that Satan is the god of this present world and he wants to cause as much division and strife as he can among God's people especially Christians. Therefore Satan will use Christians to cause division among the body of Jesus Christ, the church, by influencing Christians to theorize these many different man made doctrines that are based upon INTERPRETATIONS of isolated verses.

         Therefore you have to interpret each and every verse in the LIGHT of the WHOLE Bible. And whatever interpretation one conclude a verse to mean, then that interpretation must AGREE with the rest of God's word. So then, if even one verse CONTRADICTS the INTERPRETATION that one concludes a verse means, then that INTERPRETATION is NOT a correct meaning of that verse and therefore it must be rejected as being a false teaching.

         So then according this rule of interpreting the Bible, then MY interpretation of Revelation 3:14 is that this verse is speaking of Jesus being the first NEW creature of God, as in, Jesus being the FIRST BORN from the dead, and thus Jesus became the BEGINNING of a NEW CREATION of God. Jesus was also the FIRST human being to every be GIVEN ETERNAL LIFE even as the Father has life in himself. Also this verse means that Jesus is the first, as in, Jesus is the HEAD or the RULER over all EXCEPT for being the head or ruler over his God and Father the ALMIGHTY, the ONE TRUE God and creator of ALL including being the creator of his Son Jesus.

         The Bible PROPHESIED that one would be BORN, who would then become the FATHER of EVERLASTING life. The King James Version TRANSLATES this passage in Isaiah 9:6 as,"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

         And then, well meaning Christians wrongly interpret this verse to mean that Jesus IS THE FATHER ALMIGHTY God himself, based upon bias translations of the Bible that are specifically translated the way that they are for the reason of proving the doctrine of the trinity.

         But as you will see, this is NOT what the literal meaning of this verse in Isaiah 9:6, but rather the true literal meaning of this verse is that it is a PROPHECY of a coming child where this child yet to be born at the time Isaiah wrote this prophecy would BECOME the Father or the ORIGIN or the BEGINNING or the FIRST FRUIT, or the FIRST human being to RECEIVE eternal life from Almighty God the Father who GAVE his SON Jesus this POWER or this AUTHORITY to GIVE eternal life to whosoever his Son chooses to give eternal life. Jesus became the father of everlasting life, because of his obedience to his God and God who then highly exalted his Son Jesus to become a god, a ruler, at his Father's right hand, because of his Son's OBEDIENCE to do all his Father's will.

         I pray that you can see just how many times those who teach the man made doctrine of the trinity CONTRADICT themselves. First they dogmatically demand that Jesus IS THE ALMIGHTY God and therefore demand that Jesus had NO BEGINNING and that Jesus was NOT CREATED, but then SOME use verses like Revelation 3:14 to try and support their false teaching by saying that this verse means that Jesus himself is the very ORIGIN or BEGINNING or the INITIATION, or the CAUSE of all creation to then try and prove that Jesus IS THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God who is the CREATOR of all things.

         Then some of these same Christians try and use Isaiah 9:6 to dogmatically demand that Jesus IS THE EVERLASTING FATHER, which CONTRADICTS their own man made doctrine of the trinity that dogmatically demands that Jesus is NOT the FATHER.

         I can see some truth it their interpretation IN THAT Jesus was the REASON of why Almighty God created all things. In other words, God had Jesus in MIND when he created all things FOR his Son Jesus. The truth of the matter is that Revelation 3:14 is an idiom or group of phases used to describe the one who is speaking. The early church understood who Jesus was and that Jesus was brought into existence or BORN of the woman Mary BY the SPOKEN WORD of Almighty God and therefore they use the phrase Jesus being called the Word to describe the Son of God. We use the FISH SYMBOL to describe Christianity, but a FISH is not Christianity and Christianity is NOT a FISH. The fish symbol is just an IDIOM to DESCRIBE Christianity.

         In much the same way Christians in the early church used phrases or titles, or names, or words to describe who they were speaking about.

         All through the New Testament you can see how much care went into their writings to clearly show us that Jesus is the SON OF Almighty God the Father, who came to show us the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God, and that we must believe in BOTH the Father AND his SON and that if we do not have the SON, then we do NOT have the FATHER. God wants us to believe that Jesus is his SON and no where do I find in God's word that we are taught to believe that Jesus himself IS THE ALMIGHTY God, which the Bible clearly and plainly teaches us is the FATHER. Clearly the Bible teaches us that Jesus came out from the Father and that the spoken WORD OF Almighty God was made to become flesh and blood much like Almighty God created or brought into existence all things. And God SAID LET THERE BE and there was.... God spoke his thought as his WORD and his WORD then BECAME what God imagined to be.

         So once again to keep things SIMPLE and EASY for most anyone to UNDERSTAND and teach to others I myself lean toward Revelation 3:14 to be speaking of Jesus being the BEGINNING of the NEW CREATION of God seeing that the entire book of Revelation is leading up to the NEW Jerusalem, a NEW AGE, A NEW BEGINNING where God makes all things NEW, where the wicked are destroyed once and for all time never to rise again.

         So then, if we live as an OVER COMER now in this present life, then our reward of ETERNAL LIFE awaits us in the world to come and the second death will have no power over us.

         May God bless you richly JD as you continue to seek the truth of he whole word of Almighty God.

Your brother in our Lord Jesus Christ,

Mark.

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         QUESTION #2.

         In Daniel 3:25 is the fourth man in the fiery furnace referring to Jesus? And if so does this verse prove that Jesus is Almighty God?

         ANSWER to question #2:

         Hi JD

         Question #3

         HI Mark

         Is the angel in Exodus 3:2-18 speaking of Jesus Christ? And if the Angel in exodus chapter three is referring to Jesus Christ does then then prove that Jesus preexisted?

         ANSWER to question #3:

         Hi JD

         What Moses SAW was an angel OF Almighty God the Father, who came out of the burning bush in the likeness of a flaming fire and then what Moses HEARD was the VOICE of Almighty God the Father himself.

         OR it may be that what Moses HEARD was the voice of the angel, who was speaking in BEHALF OF Almighty God the Father. 

         You see Zaire one must ASSUME that it was actually the angel who was the one who was speaking. And then one must ASSUME that this angel was Jesus Christ. And then one must ASSUME that this being who was speaking in the form of an angel was indeed THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY ALMIGHTY GOD himself who appeared to Moses in the burning bush. But this line of reasoning CONTRADICTS the verses that teach us that NO MAN has ever SEEN God nor CAN SEE him.

         Why complicate the word of God that simply says that Moses SAW and ANGEL OF God? Why dogmatically demand this verse to mean that this ANGEL was Jesus? Would that not be saying that Jesus was an ANGEL? And since the Bible itself says that Moses saw an ANGEL and Moses HEARD the VOICE of the Almighty, then does this PROVE that the ANGEL is Almighty God HIMSELF? NO! A thousand times NO!

         All we know for sure is that Moses HEARD the voice of God saying that he was the ALMIGHTY, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Please keep in mind that Almighty God is a SPIRIT, who is INVISIBLE who CANNOT be SEEN by MAN.

         Also we know from the Bible that Almighty God himself is NOT an ANGEL or a MAN or any other CREATED being. Therefore an ANGEL OF Almighty God cannot be one and the self same being as Almighty God himself.

         So in other words, if one dogmatically demands that this ANGEL is JESUS, then this would make Jesus to be an ANGEL, which are CREATED beings and therefore Jesus could NOT possibly be Almighty God the Father himself as they ALSO dogmatically demand using this and other verses of scripture.

         You cannot have it both ways by using different verses to try and prove that Jesus is Almighty God himself AND at the SAME time Jesus is the SON OF Almighty God the Father, or that Jesus is the ANGEL OF Almighty, who has SUPPOSEDLY preexisted with the Father for all eternity past as the SON OF God or as God the SON, and therefore teach that God the SON NEVER had a BEGINNING. For you see a SON always has a beginning by being BORN at some point in time.

         So you can clearly see that this type of teaching does not stand up to very simple logical reasoning where the word of TRUTH, the Holy Bible, plainly and clearly states that Jesus is BEGOTTEN OF Almighty God the Father where God says THIS DAY have I BEGOTTEN you speaking of a specific day or point in time.

         No matter how one looks at the scriptures they plainly teach that Jesus is BEGOTTEN OF Almighty God the Father, which clearly teaches us that Jesus did indeed have a BEGINNING and therefore proves beyond any shadow of a doubt the Jesus himself cannot be THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God, who has NO BEGINNING and who was NEVER BEGOTTEN or brought into existence but who has always SELF EXISTED without beginning nor ending.

         Now for ME it is far easier to believe that the BEGINNING of Jesus is WHEN he was BEGOTTEN OF the Father at his conception in the womb of Mary when the WORD of God was SPOKEN by the angel Gabriel to Mary and then when she agreed that God's SPOKEN WORD be done according to what was spoken to her by the angel Gabriel was the TIME in which Jesus was BEGOTTEN in the womb of Mary to be BORN a human being and to be called the SON OF God.

         The ONLY way that I myself can even possibly see that Jesus preexisted as separate person beside Almighty God is that Jesus preexisted as the WORD OF Almighty God where the WORD OF Almighty God was or is a LIVING BEING who then became a human being being born of the virgin Mary. But to ME this CONFUSES some who ask how can you tell the difference between the SPOKEN WORD of Almighty God and this separate divine being called the WORD of God? Does not the Bible say that ALL of God's word is his LIVING word that abides forever? And then would this not mean that all of God's creation brought forth into existence BY the spoken living word of God would be of a DIVINE NATURE?

         So then, for ME it is far easier to believe that when Almighty God SPEAKS FORTH his THOUGHTS is the FORM of his WORD, then his SPOKEN WORD BECOMES whatever God has SPOKEN. In other words, the IMAGE of what God is THINKING to yet come into being when God SPEAKS FORTH his WORD which is the EXPRESSED IMAGE of what God desires to come to pass, it then BECOMES or comes into existence where it never existed before except in the MIND of God.

         So when the Bible says that Jesus was in the FORM OF God and that Jesus is the EXPRESS IMAGE OF God and that the WORD WAS God, then all these verse AGREE that Jesus came into being BY the SPOKEN WORD OF Almighty God having preexisted in the MIND of God only until the WORD of God was FULFILLED by being spoken by the angel Gabriel to the virgin Mary to be conceived in the womb of Mary to be born as a human being, the Son of MAN who would be called the Son of God.

         ALL the verses used by those who teach the doctrine of the trinity and the preexistence of Jesus as the Son of God WITHOUT ever having a beginning can easily be explained in another way that make far more sense in the light of the WHOLE word of God and that does NOT contradict any other part of God's word if one is truly willing to hear the truth of God's word with an open heart.

         For example when Jesus said before Abraham I AM some Christians dogmatically demand that Jesus is saying that he himself is the one true and only ALMIGHTY God the great I AM based upon Exodus 3:14.

         But other verses CONTRADICT this INTERPRETATION of these words of Jesus saying that before Abraham I am.

         You see JD, the literal Greek meaning of "ego emin" that the translators TRANSLATED as "I am"  simply means "I WAS", or "I am he". Yes these Greek words can translated as I am, but they were never meant to be INTERPRETED as Jesus saying that he himself IS THE GREAT I AM, as in Jesus was saying that he himself is THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God.

         Now some would argue that if Jesus meant that BEFORE Abraham I WAS, then this would still prove that Jesus preexisted with Almighty God the Father as the Son pf God WITHOUT a BEGINNING.

         But in truth, the true meaning of this passage of scripture is that the Jews to whom Jesus was speaking held Abraham up high on a pedestal so to speak and all Jesus was saying to them and us that BEFORE God ever THOUGHT to bring forth ABRAHAM into existence that his Son Jesus WAS in his thoughts even BEFORE the foundation of the earth or BEFORE Abraham I existed in the MIND and the PLAN of Almighty God. Jesus said to some of these same Jews that they searched the scriptures to find eternal life and he told them that the scriptures SPOKE of him being their Messiah who would save them. When Jesus said to these same Jews that if they did not believe that I am he that they would die in their sins. And they asked him WHO are you. Jesus replied I am the SAME that I have told you from the beginning. Then when we go back to the beginning of the ministry of Jesus he told them that he was the ONE SPOKEN of in the SCRIPTURES the spoken WORD of Almighty God. Jesus said I am the ANOINTED ONE of Almighty God whom he sent to redeem the world. God thought to bring forth his Son BEFORE God ever thought to bring forth Abraham is what this passage of scripture means in the light of the whole word of God.

        Also please UNDERSTAND that when Almighty God said the words, I AM in Exodus 3:14 he did not simply say I AM, but rather said I AM the self existing one, which can also be translated as I AM BECOMING WHAT I SHALL BE, or I AM what I AM, or I AM what I will BE. But Jesus never once said any of these types of words, but rather simply said "ego emin" which means "I am", which literally means "I WAS" or "I am he".

        So the answer to your question Zaire is NO I do not see in any way for Exodus chapter 3 or any other verse in the Bible that proves beyond any shadow of a doubt the Jesus preexisted with Almighty God as a literal spirit being who was WITH Almighty God as the SON OF Almighty God who had NO BEGINNING.

        Sorry for laughing within myself right now, but when I wrote the words Jesus had NO BEGINNING it reminded me of a response given by one of the early church writers who tried to argue that Jesus was indeed begotten of the Father, BUT he went on to argue that Jesus was begotten WITHOUT being BEGOTTEN, because the doctrine that he was trying to argue as the truth taught that Jesus had NO BEGINNING.

        You see JD, this debate has been around since the third and fourth century. The truth of the matter is that the doctrines of the trinity and the preexistence of Jesus took many centuries to develop and they were also met with much resistance by many Christians all through the entire church age who were heavily persecuted and even martyred for their refusal to submit to these man made doctrines of the trinity and Jesus being the Almighty God himself WITHOUT a BEGINNING. The earliest of the early church knew and taught that Jesus was the SON OF Almighty God BORN of the virgin Mary. Search the history of the doctrine of the trinity and be OPEN to hear BOTH sides of the argument if you truly want to know the WHOLE truth of the WHOLE word of God. There have always been believers in the church who have been persecuted and even killed because they would not accept the Catholic doctrine of the trinity.

Your brother in our Lord Jesus Christ,

Mark.

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         QUESTION #4. Does Revelation 1:8 prove that Jesus is Almighty God himself?

This question comes from another dear brother in the Lord JD who also wants to remain anonymous. And he writes the following: