PROVERBS 8:22-31 PROVES JESUS PREEXISTED!

      SPELLING EDITED


DOES PROVERBS 8:22-31 PROVE THAT JESUS PREEXISTED?

 


The first rule of “interpreting” Scripture is that whatever “interpretation” that a Christian concludes that a passage of Scripture means then that “interpretation” MUST AGREE with the REST of God’s word. So then, IF a Christian “interprets” Proverbs 8:22-31 to mean that Jesus “LITERALLY” pre-existed in the eternity past as a separate person from Almighty God the Father then that literal pre-existence “interpretation must agree with the “INTERPRETATION” of the New Testament verses of Scriptures that Jesus is the CREATOR of all THINGS. In other words, IF a Christian “interprets” John 1:1-3; Hebrew 1:2,3; Revelation 3:14; Revelation 4:11; Ephesians 3:9, and Colossians 1:15-17 to mean that Jesus is the CREATOR of the entire universe, then that “interpretation” must agree with the “interpretation” of Proverbs 8:22-31 as Jesus LITERALLY pre-existing as the CREATOR. And if those “interpretations” do NOT agree then they are NOT the CORRECT interpretations.

Let us take a close look at Proverbs 8:22-31 to see IF Jesus “literally” pre-existed and if Jesus CREATED the earth. And as you read this passage of Scripture I want you to pay close attention as to WHO is the creator, designer, planner, architect, and the one actually doing the creating. The Hebrew word of tetragrammaton “YHWH” translated as LORD in all capital letters refers to Yahweh, the ALMIGHTY God, who we as Christians know as the FATHER in the New Testament. I will emphasize all the pronouns that refer to Yahweh in orange and all the pronouns referring to Jesus in yellow. Other highlighted words are to draw your attention to them.

 

Proverbs 8:22-31.


“The LORD possessed me in the beginning of His way, before His works of old. 

23.  I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 

24.  When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. 

25.  Before the mountains were settled, before the hills, was I brought forth

26  While as yet He had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. 

27.  When He prepared the heavens, I was there: when He set a compass upon the face of the depth: 

28.  When He established the clouds above: when He strengthened the fountains of the deep: 

29.  When He gave to the sea His decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when He appointed the foundations of the earth: 

30.  Then I was by Him, AS ONE brought up with Him: and I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him

31.  Rejoicing IN the HABITABLE part of His earth and my delights were with the sons of men.” 

 

Now, I myself did NOT see Jesus lift one finger to CREATE ANYTHING. According to Proverbs 8:22-31 it is Yahweh Himself who created the earth to be HABITABLE once again. Notice that Jesus was always rejoicing before Yahweh IN the HABITABLE part of the earth WHILE Yahweh had not YET restored the earth to be habitable. So I myself “interpret” Proverbs 8:22-31 as Jesus being in the MIND and PLAN of Yahweh BEFORE Yahweh ALONE and BY Himself recreated the earth that BECAME void and empty. Let us read Proverbs 8:22-31 again so we can look up some of the meanings of the Hebrew words so you can see the Messiah Jesus was PLANNED before the foundation of the earth and that God’s Son did NOT LITERALLY pre-exist. But rather, Jesus existed in the main and plan of Yahweh to be brought forth into existence as the human Son of God at the virgin birth.


Proverbs 8:22-31.

 

“The LORD (Referring to Yahweh the Lord God Almighty, who we know is the FATHER alone) possessed ME (Speaking of Jesus. The word POSSESSED means acquired, bought, purchased redeemed, brought forth into existence, and formed His SON) in the beginning of HIS way, (All of these meanings of God ACQUIRING His SON teach us that Jesus not only had a BEGINNING. But also they teach us that this passage of Scripture is PROPHECY of yet a future fulfillment concerning Jesus and NOT teaching us of a literal PRE-EXISTING Jesus. In other words, God acquired the THOUGHT of one day having a Son and God FORMED that thought within Himself as an IMAGE)  before HIS WORKS of old. (The meaning of the word “WORKS” here LITERALLY means PRECEDING His CONTRIVANCES of old. And this word contrivance means that God had His Son in MIND preceding His CLEVERLY DEVISED ingenious PLAN.  God’s cleverly devised ingenious PLAN of SALVATION was to have an INNOCENT MAN be SLAIN without cause so He could JUDGE Lucifer and the fallen angel and also redeem or buy back His creation called the HUMANS that He has not yet created PRECEDING the foundation of the world. 

You see dear children of God, creating a NEW species of being called the humans a little lower or inferior to His previous creation the ANGELS was so God could JUDGE the fallen angel. For you see, 1/3 of the angels had rebelled against God under the leadership of Lucifer who is now known as Satan or the Devil. And PART of God's ingenious plan is to prove that He created Lucifer perfect in all his ways. And thus, God will clear His own name for His own sake that was being defamed by the false accusation from Lucifer BLAMING God for Lucifer’s own prideful sin saying God created him evil and it was not his fault. Therefore, God has no right to destroy him. So God created and inferior species of being called the humans in order to JUDGE Lucifer and the fallen angels as GUILTY as charged. For you see if an INFERIOR human can live without sin then that proves God created Lucifer and the fallen angels perfect in the day that He created them. Please read the study UNDERSTANDING WHY? for the BIG picture and all the verses that answer many, many questions Christian have such as WHY does God allow evil in the world? 

Please understand that this verse like all verses must be interpreted in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of God and AGREE with the rest of God's word. If one interprets this verse alone and apart from the rest of God's word it may SEEM that Jesus was brought forth BEFORE the foundation of the world and was LITERALLY by the side of God as a SECOND person or being as God's Son. However. in the light of the WHOLE word of God which you will see that the correct meaning of this verse is that Jesus is God FIRST DESIRE WITHIN himself to have a SON BEFORE God begins creating or preparing a PLACE FOR his Son, which is the restored world. You see dear child of God, it is like proud EXPECTING parents awaiting their unborn child that PREPARE a room for their YET COMING child)

23.  I was SET UP (This word has several meanings which are #1 God INAUGURATE His yet future Son or APPOINTED His human Son to be highly exalted to become a King of kings. And Yahweh ordained this in His MIND and PLAN) from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. (Also, this word translated as set up in the King James Version also carries the meaning of being POURED OUT as a drink offering is poured out. So when we take this meaning and compare it to the Scriptures that teach us that Jesus is the LAMB that was SLAIN from BEFORE the foundation of the world then we can see that Proverbs 8:22-31 is a PROPHECY about a YET FUTURE fulfillment from the time it was SPOKEN by God. The word of prophecy was then written down by men of old who SPOKE these prophecies for generations. 

Now, we all KNOW that Jesus was NOT LITERALLY SLAIN BEFORE the foundation of the world. And in the same way. Jesus did NOT LITERALLY PRE-EXIST by the side of God BEFORE the foundation of the world. But rather, the SON OF God dwelt in God's MIND as an IMAGE WITHIN God before the foundation of the world. So then, it was AS IF His Son was BY his side where God had WITHIN Himself as an IMAGE of His yet FUTURE Son before the foundation of the world. You may not agree as yet to this interpretation of the Scriptures, so I ask that you please humor me as you continue to read these verses so you can see God as a proud parent EXPECTING His yet UNBORN child. At least try and see these verses as God preparing a place, the world, FOR or FOR the SAKE OF His yet future unborn SON, who is yet to be brought into existence at the time of this PROPHECY)

24. When there were no depths, I was BROUGHT FORTH; (The LITERAL meaning of this word “brought forth” means TRAVAILED as a woman in labor pains about to BIRTH a yet unborn child. This word also means to WAIT PATIENTLY or to look for. Again, the meaning of this Hebrew word teaches us that Jesus, the SON OF God, was still yet WITHIN Yahweh’s THOUGHTS who was anxiously AWAITING His Son to be brought forth or born of the Virgin Mary. And then, the FIRSTBORN from the dead would forever be God's ETERNAL Son by His right-hand side LITERALLY. 

So all these words teach us that Jesus was BEING brought forth into existence in the MIND of God as part of God's CONTRIVANCE to prove to Lucifer, the fallen angels and to the good angels that ALL that God creates is PERFECT and he has every right to judge Lucifer and the fallen angels. And all this is taking place in God's MIND BEFORE the recreation of the earth that was destroyed or made waste in the WAR between God and the fallen angels who were trying to take over God's throne. Again, please read the study UNDERSTANDING WHY? for all the verses that show what I am saying about this war or rebellion of Lucifer and the fallen angels. But for now, please understand that God was TRAVAILING or if you will PREGNANT with His yet unborn SON) when there were no fountains abounding with water.

25. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills, was I  BROUGHT FORTH: (And even if you just use the meaning of the English words “brought forth” these words still mean that Jesus was brought into existence where he never existed before. So I interpret these words to means that Jesus was yet in the womb of God's MIND and deep DESIRE WITHIN Himself BEING FORMED as to how His yet future Son will be like. Either way, Jesus was brought forth into existence. Remember Exodus 3:14 where God says “I AM THAT I AM”? That verse  LITERALLY meansI SHALL BECOME WHO I AM BECOMING)

26. While as yet HE (Almighty God) had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. (Now, the Christians who teach the PRE-EXISTENCE of Jesus also teach that Jesus HIMSELF CREATED ALL things. But, according to ALL the verses in the Old Testament, we can CLEARLY and PLAINLY see in SIMPLICITY that Almighty God Himself ALONE and BY HIMSELF created ALL things. Please read the study EPHESIANS 3:9 DID JESUS CREATE ALL THINGS? for sound Biblical teaching letting the Bible speak for ITSELF to clearly show that Almighty God HIMSELF created ALL things FOR or FOR the SAKE of His yet future SON Jesus just like Proverbs 8:22-31 is teaching us)

27. When HE (Almighty God Himself) prepared the heavens, I was there, (Meaning the Jesus was there in his THOUGHTS and DESIRES WITHIN Yahweh Himself as if His yet unborn Son was literally by His side while HE was PREPARING a place for ME. Remember that God is prophesying these words TO His yet future Son so that when the Son of MAN read these words he would know how much his God and Father LOVES him. To me, that is why this passage of Scripture is written in the first person as if Jesus was actually there speaking these words. Also, the Hebrew word translated as “there” comes from the root word “asher” that is used in Exodus 3:14 as the WHO or WHAT Yahweh SHALL BECOME. And, as you will see in a moment by the CONTEXT, Jesus was NOT actually brought into existence yet) when HE set a compass upon the face of the depth, (The LITERAL meaning of God setting a COMPASS upon the face of the deep is “INTO DELINEATE OF HIM”. This means that God is drawing out, sketching out, making a blueprint, designing WITHIN Himself in His THOUGHTS, and IMAGINING how He will prepare this place for His yet unborn SON. This word DELINEATE also means to PICTURE as WORDS or to PORTRAY in WORDS. To say this another way, God was PICTURING in His MIND within Himself by FORMING words WITHIN Himself to portray the IMAGE that was WITHIN Himself to bring it forth into existence. God kept adjusting the image until He formed the perfect image of His yet future Son, Yahweh’s yet unborn Son was the CENTER of this IMAGE that God had within Himself. God was designing a PORTRAIT of the IMAGE within Himself to CREATE)

28: When HE established the clouds above: when HE strengthened the fountains of the deep:

29. When HE gave to the sea HIS decree, that the waters should not pass HIS commandment: when HE appointed (DESIGNED or delineated in Himself ) the foundations of the earth: (Clearly, Yahweh ALONE and BY Himself created the earth. And, therefore, John 1:1-3; Hebrews 1:2,3; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:15-17, and Revelation 4:11 must be interpreted to mean BECAUSE of Jesus the ALL of WHOSEVER BELIEVE are CREATE by Yahweh IN Jesus Christ. Jesus is NOT the creator of the entire universe but God used His human Son, Jesus, as the means by which Yahweh reconciled the world back to Himself. Clearly, Jesus was in the THOUGHTS of Yahweh before Yahweh alone and by Himself restored the earth to be inhabitable once again. Please read the study “WHAT DOES THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD TRULY MEAN?”)

30. Then I was BY Him, AS ONE brought up with Him (Now these last two verse clearly teach us that this passage of Scripture is a PROPHECY of the future fulfillment of God's SON being brought forth into existence and that it was AS IF Jesus was by his side WHILE God was PREPARING the world FOR or FOR the SAKE OF His yet unborn Son. The Hebrew word translated as “BY” Him carries the meaning of JOINING Him. And the Hebrew word translated as “brought up” carrying the meaning of TRAINING up a child in the way he should go. And the words “with Him” are NOT in the original text. Also, please notice in the next verse that Jesus was REJOICING IN the habitable part of the EARTH that had NOT YET been created as yet, but was still yet in the MIND and PLAN of God WITHIN himself yet to be brought forth into existence) and I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him;

31. Rejoicing IN the HABITABLE part of His EARTH and my delights were with the sons of men.”

 

Again, these last two verses, verses 30 and 31, clearly teach us that Proverb 8:22-31 is a PROPHECY of God's yet coming Son because we see Jesus rejoicing in the EARTH that has NOT YET been CREATED. Or more precisely, we see the yet future Jesus rejoicing in the HABITABLE part of the RESTORED earth that BECAME void and empty during the AR waged by Lucifer and the fallen angels which is WHY we are HERE. God created the human race to JUDGE Lucifer and the fallen angels. And ONLY those of us humans who BELIEVE unto the end will inherit the world to come WITH our fellow brother, Jesus.

Let us take an even CLOSER look at the LITERAL meanings of some of these words in these last two verses. The LITERAL translation of Proverbs 8:30,31 says the following.

 

The LITERAL translation of Proverbs 8:30,31,

 

“And I was beside him FOSTER CHILD and I was delectation day day one GAMBOLING to faces of him all of time.

31. One GAMBOLING inhabiting of earth of him and delectation of me the sons of humans.”

 

So then, ALL OF THE TIME WHILE God was PREPARING the world for His yet unborn SON Jesus, God was PORTRAYING or painting a portrait in His MIND PICTURING His yet future unborn SON GAMBOLING in the EARTH that God was still yet PREPARING FOR or FOR the SAKE OF His yet unborn FOSTER child DELIGHTING over His yet coming into being unborn SON.

Let us consider the meanings of these words so we can see that PICTURE or portrait that God was painting in His MIND forming the IMAGE of what He DESIRED to BE brought into existence.

First of all, the word “beside” has another meaning other than being BY the side of God. When we consider the abundant GREAT JOY and delight that was WITHIN God picturing His Son yet to BE, then the English word “beside” can take on the meaning of being beside oneself, which means out of one's MIND with EXCITEMENT or anticipation having extreme agitation. Now, this meaning agrees with verse 24 of Jesus being brought forth as in God was TRAVAILING or birthing His Son WITHIN Himself. This word “travailing” also has the meaning of being extremely agitated with excitement, as in, shaking or vibrating with excitement. But the Hebrew word means to JOIN beside Him.

Next when see Jesus being a FOSTER child. The word “FOSTER” means to raise up a child that is NOT OF your own blood. And in this case, a child that is NOT own God's OWN DIVINE NATURE as yet still being the human Son of MAN. You see dear children of God when Almighty God Himself brought His Son into existence God stripped His divine spoken word of ALL ITS DIVINE nature to take on HUMAN NATURE. Please read the study WHAT DOES GOD INCARNATE TRULY MEAN?  and “PHILIPPIANS 2:6-11 PROVES PREEXISTENCE!” for what the BIBLE ITSELF teaches and NOT what the mainstream churches teach. 

But for now, please know that Jesus did not take on the divine nature of Almighty God Father by becoming IMMORTAL until AFTER his death and resurrection which is when his God and Father GAVE His human SON Jesus immortality or eternal life, the same LIFE that the Father has always possessed in Himself. Please read the study “WHEN DID JESUS BECOME GOD'S ETERNAL SON?”. But again, for now, please read John 5:26,27 so we can stay focused on this study at hand.

 

John 5:26,27.

 

“For AS the Father HAS life IN himself; SO HAS He GIVEN TO the Son TO HAVE life in himself

27.  AND has GIVEN him authority to execute judgment ALSO, BECAUSE he is the Son of MAN.”

 

NOT because Jesus IS Almighty God HIMSELF. And NOT because Jesus is the SON OF Almighty God. But rather BECAUSE Jesus was the Son of MAN. Let us get back on the topic of closely examining Proverbs 8:22-31 where we see God delighting over his Son. The root word from where this Hebrew word translated as “DELIGHTING” in the original text means to DANDLE. And the word “dandle” means to bounce up and down on one's knee, or to bounce in one's cradled arms that brought so much JOY and LOVE to God picturing His yet coming Son WITHIN Himself. God truly LOVED His yet unborn Son BEFORE the foundation of the world just as we read in John 17:24.

 

John 17:24.

 

“Father, I will that they also, whom you have given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which you have given me: for you LOVED me before the foundation of the world.”  

 

Human parents love their yet unborn children BEFORE they are born. So this verse does NOT have to mean the Jesus pre-existed in order to be loved by his god and father before the foundation of the world.

This excitement within God I can envision that he had for His yet unborn FOSTER son. Now, it was only during the days of his FLESH being the Son of MAN that Jesus was God's FOSTER child. God's ways are NOT our ways. To us, a foster or an adopted child can never be a biological child. But with God NOTHING is impossible. Jesus did not actually become God ETERNAL DIVINE Son until AFTER the cross when Jesus ascended into heaven and God gave to His human Son the divine NATURE of IMMORTALITY.

The only verse in the entire Bible that speaks of DIVINE NATURE is 1 Peter 2:14 where WE are given the promise to PARTAKE of the DIVINE NATURE, which is ETERNAL LIFE of IMMORTALITY.

 

2 Peter 1:4.

 

“Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these YOU (Or WE) might be partakers of the DIVINE NATURE, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.”

 

Jesus says that God loves us because we have loved him and I have FELT the loving arms of God's presence giving me a big hug that overwhelmed me so much that I began to cry out loud trembling with joy, praise, and love for God. It was during a church service and I was worshiping God with my whole being and I did not want the worship service to stop. And when the singing and praise stopped then we all sat down. But WITHIN myself I kept on worshiping God enjoying His presence and that is when his presence INCREASED BEYOND what I had ever felt before.  I could literally feel His arms around me squeezing me, as if, He was giving me a HUG showing HIS excitement of my worship to Him. Please read the study ALMIGHTY GOD LOVES YOU SO MUCH!

I could talk all day about the presence of God but we had better get back to the study at hand. Then we see Jesus GAMBOLING in the earth. The word “gamboling” means dancing around skipping and playing in the EARTH that God has NOT YET prepared FOR or FOR the SAKE OF His yet future Son Jesus. And to me, the meanings of these Hebrew words clearly and plainly teach us that Jesus did NOT LITERALLY PRE-EXIST by his God and Father SIDE as a separate divine eternal Spirit being in the eternity past. It does not matter if the Word in John 1:1 is called God the SON who is CLAIMED to be the one who created ALL things by those who teach the doctrine of the Trinity. Nor does it matter if the “pre-existent” Jesus is called the Word like the Jehovah’s Witnesses teach. All Christians who teach a “pre-existing” Jesus ALSO teach that Jesus IS the CREATOR himself or that God the Father created the entire universe THROUGH or BY His PRE-EXISTING Son.

But in TRUTH, we clearly see right here in this passage of Scripture that the DESIGNER, architect, builder, and CREATOR of all things is Almighty God Himself HAVING his SON in His MIND while Yahweh was doing all of this FOR or for the SAKE OF His yet future SON Jesus.

So then, one can readily see from this passage of Scripture that Jesus himself is saying that Almighty God the Father was behind all that was created and that he, God's Son was there with his Father BEFORE the FOUNDATIONS of the EARTH as God's DELIGHT WITHIN God PICTURING this IMAGE of His yet future SON rejoicing before Almighty God IN the habitable part of the EARTH that had NOT YET been CREATED.

So clearly, to ME, Jesus as God's SON was with God at this time before the foundation of the world ONLY in God's THOUGHTS. For you see, HOW could Jesus rejoice before his God and Father IN the habitable part of the EARTH when the earth had NOT yet been created as yet EXCEPT in the MIND and the PLAN of ALMIGHTY God.

So you see dear children of God when Jesus said glorify me with the glory I had with you before the world began means one of two things. To me, that verse of Scripture can mean that Jesus was praying to his God and Father saying something like, “I am getting ready to go through a tough time very shortly, Father. And when I take on the sins of the world I know from your word that you are going to turn your back on me. So I pray that you glorify me to the glorious delight that you had for me in your mind and plan before the world began and that you PROPHESIED about me before I was ever BORN.” 

I myself believe that Jeremiah 1:5 is a PROPHECY of Jesus.

 

Jeremiah 1:5.

 

Before I formed you in the belly I knew you, and before you came forth out of the womb I sanctified you, and I ordained you a prophet unto the nations.”

 

Not just to the one nation of Israel but to the NATIONS. You see, Jesus knew the Scriptures spoke of him. Jesus knew that he was the chosen one sent by Almighty God to become that sacrifice for mankind because the Spirit of God taught him morning by morning from the Scriptures. Jesus saw the END from the Scriptures but he still had to BELIEVE. And because of the JOY of being glorified and JOINING with Yahweh on His throne that was set before Jesus, he endured the cross for us knowing that his God and Father is FAITHFUL to perform His spoken word of PROPHECY. 

So then, because Jesus became obedient even unto death on the cross Almighty God HIGHLY EXALTED His human Son and GAVE him a NAME that is above every name. This is a NEW NAME which only Jesus knows for sure. But we can certainly take an educated guess from the Scriptures that the new name that Jesus was given after the cross is “Yah” a contraction of Yahweh. There is no other name higher than Yahweh and the name Yah is the second-highest name. Please read the study “WHAT DOES TAKE THE LORD’S NAME  IN VAIN TRULY MEAN?” 

This brings us to the other meaning of the verse in question where  Jesus said glorify me with the glory I had with you before the world was. Some Christians INTERPRET John 17:5 to mean that Jesus MUST have pre-existed as a second person of a Godhead Trinity God. They argue what else could that vers possibly mean. But when you give them ANTHER possible meaning they accuse you of changing the word of God to fit your own personal interpretation. So SOME Triniatrain Christians do not want to hear the TRUTH of the WHOLE word of Almighty God.

I pray that you are not one of those hardcore Triniatian Christians that are unteachable to anything that goes against what they already have chosen to believe.

The TRUTH is that John 17:5 in the LITERAL Greek can be translated in a number of ways. First, let us read this verse again from the King James version.

 

John 17:5.

 

“And now, O Father, glorify you me with your own self with the glory which I HAD with you BEFORE the world WAS.”

 

Please notice that I have emphasized three words. The word that is translated as “I HAD” is the Greek word “ECHO”, Strong's # G2192, which means to hold, to keep, or to be as a possession or as a condition. In other words, in the light of the rest of God's word Jesus is asking his God and Father to glorify him with the glory which God had promised and that God is holding in store for him as his reward for obeying all of His God and Father’s WILL even to die on the cross for the sins of the world. Thayer's Greek to English Lexicon defines this word to mean to have in store. Hebrews 12:1-4 teaches us that Almighty God set something that brought JOY in view before His human Son Jesus which gave His SON strength to ENDURE the suffering of the cross.

 

Hebrews 12:1-4.

 

“Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

2. Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who FOR (Or BECAUSE OF) the JOY that was SET BEFORE him ENDURED the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. (How many times have we faced hard times and kept the PROMISE of ETERNAL LIFE at the forefront of our minds to ENDURE through those hard times?)

3. For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest you be wearied and faint in your minds.

4. You have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.”

 

Now, we as Christians have a PRIZE that is set before us to strengthen us to ENDURE unto the end that is RESERVED in heaven for us. So why is it so hard for SOME Christians to see that Jesus was simply praying and asking God to glorify his Son with the glory that was being RESERVED in heaven for him. 

The word that is translated as “BEFORE” can also mean “previous” and the word that is translated as “WAS” also means “TO BE”. Now, some Bible scholars interpret John 17:5 to mean that Jesus was asking to be glorified with the glory which Almighty God the Father was HOLDING IN STORE for his triumphant HUMAN Son to enjoy “prior to the world to come”. And this interpretation does agree with the truth of the whole word of God which teaches us that Jesus is in heaven NOW in his glorified state sitting at the right hand of his Father on his Father's throne BEFORE the world yet to BE. Please read the study “HOW DID JESUS PRE-EXIST?” which covers the verses of PROPHECY showing HOW Jesus became God's ETERNAL DIVINE, Son, one step at a time.

             Thanks for reading and may God bless you richly as you continue to seek the truth of the WHOLE word of Almighty God. Below is a list of the studies I mentioned within this study along with all the other studies that I have related to this subject of HOW did Jesus PREEXIST. We all agree that Jesus pre-existed in some form so the question is not IF Jesus pre-existed, but rather, in what form as to HOW Jesus pre-existed in eternity past.

 

             Your brother in our Lord Jesus Christ,

             Brother Mark.

 

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VERSES USED TO TEACH THAT JESUS PREEXISTED!

JOHN 1:1

 

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

 

JOHN 1:1-3

 

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2. The same was in the beginning with God.

3. All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made.” 

 

JOHN 1:1-5,14,18 

 

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2. The same was in the beginning with God.

3. All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made.

4.  In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 

5.  And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.…

...14. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.…

...18. No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.”

 

JOHN 1:14

 

“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”

 

JOHN 1:15

 

“John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that comes after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.”

 

JOHN 1:18 

 

John 1:18 (NAS) No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”

 

JOHN 2:19

 

“ Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

 

JOHN 3:13

 

“And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”

 

JOHN 3:17

 

“For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.” 

 

JOHN 3:31

 

He that comes from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaks of the earth: he that comes from heaven is above all.”

 

JOHN 6:32 

         

“Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven

 

JOHN 6:33 

 

For the bread of God is he which comes down from heaven, and gives life unto the world.”

 

JOHN 6:38

 

“For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.”

 

JOHN 6:42 

 

“And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?”

 

JOHN 6:50 

 

“This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.”

 

JOHN 6:51

 

“I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eats of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

 

JOHN 6:58

 

“This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eats of this bread shall live forever.”

 

JOHN 6:62 

 

“What and if you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?”

 

JOHN 8:14

 

“Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but you cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.”

 

JOHN 8:23 

 

“And he said unto them, You are from beneath; I am from above: you are of this world; I am not of this world.”

 

JOHN 8:24

 

“I said therefore unto you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that I am he, you shall die in your sins.”

 

JOHN 8:42,43

        

“Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, you would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 

43. Why do you not understand my speech? even because you cannot hear my word.”

 

JOHN 8:58

 

“Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”

 

JOHN 10:30.31

 

I and my Father are one

31.  Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.” 

 

JOHN 14:8-10

 

“Philip said unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 

9.  Jesus said unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how say you then, Show us the Father? 

10.  Believe you not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwells in me, he does the works. 

JOHN 16:27,28 

 

“For the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God

18. I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.”

 

JOHN 17:5

 

“And now, O Father, glorify you me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world was.”

 

JOHN 17:8 

 

“For I have given unto them the words which you gave me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from you, and they have believed that you did send me.”

 

 

JOHN 17:24

 

“Father, I will that they also, whom you have given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which you have given me: for you loved me before the foundation of the world.”

 

MATTHEW 1:23

 

“Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”

 

ROMANS 8:3 

 

“For what the law could not do, in that, it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:”

 

1 CORINTHIANS 10:4

 

“And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.”

 

1 CORINTHIANS 15:47  

 

“The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.”

 

2 CORINTHIANS 8:9  

 

“For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, that you through his poverty might be rich.”

 

GALATIANS 4:4

 

“But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,”

 

EPHESIANS 3:9-11

 

“And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world has been hidden in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10. To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11. According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:”

 

EPHESIANS 4:10 

 

10. He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)”

 

COLOSSIANS 1:15-17 

 

“Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16. For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17. And he is before all things, and by him, all things consist.”

 

1 TIMOTHY 3:16

 

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”

 

TITUS 2:13,14

 

“Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ

14.  Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”

 

HEBREWS 1:1,2

 

“Has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;”

 

HEBREWS 2:14-17

 

“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 

15.  And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 

16. For verily he took not on him the nature of angels, but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17. Wherefore in all things it behooved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.”

 

HEBREWS 5:8

 

Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;”

  

HEBREWS 10:5 

 

“Wherefore when he comes into the world, he says, Sacrifice and offering you would not, but a body have you prepared me:”

 

HEBREWS 13:8

 

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever.” 

 

PHILIPPIANS 2:6-8

 

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7. But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8. And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.”

 

1 JOHN 1:1,2

 

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2. (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested unto us;)”

 

1 JOHN 5:7

 

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” 

 

1 JOHN 5:20

 

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”

 

REVELATION 3:14 

 

“And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;”

 

GENESIS 1:26

 

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”

 

PROVERBS 8:22-31 

 

“The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.”

 

MICAH 5:2

 

“But you, Bethlehem Ephratah, though you be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.”

 

ISAIAH 9:6

 

“For unto us, a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”

 

ANGEL OF THE LORD VERSES

 

Thanks for reading. May God bless you richly as you continue seeking the truth of the whole word of God. Also, please read the studies listed below related to Jesus being God, the doctrine of the Trinity, the Oneness doctrine, and the Deity of Jesus.

Your brother in our Lord Jesus Christ,

Brother Mark.

 

 

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             Verses used to try and support the doctrine of the Trinity, and that Jesus is Yahweh himself, as in one and the self-same being.

Genesis 1:26---Let US make man in OUR image!

Genesis 18:1-3 Was Jesus ONE of the THREE MEN or angels who APPEARED to Abraham?

Genesis 19:24--- YAHWEH rained down fire... from YAHWEH.

Isaiah 6:3---HOLY HOLY HOLY means TRINITY!

Isaiah 7:14---Immanuel God with us!

Isaiah 9:6---MIGHTY GOD and EVERLASTING FATHER!

Isaiah 48:16---The LORD AND HIS SPIRIT SENT ME!

Micah 5:2--- From everlasting.

Zechariah 12:10--- Look upon me whom they have pierced.

Matthew 1:23---Emmanuel God with us!

Matthew 28:19---In the name of the Father, Son, & Holy Spirit.

JOHN 1:1---AND THE WORD WAS GOD!

JOHN 2:19-22---Jesus raised HIMSELF from the dead?

JOHN 5:18 JESUS IS EQUAL WITH GOD!

JOHN 8:24 PROVES JESUS IS YAHWEH!

JOHN 8:58---BEFORE ABRAHA I AM!

JOHN 10:30---I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE!

JOHN 14:19---JESUS IS THE FATHER?

JOHN 20:28---MY LORD AND MY GOD!

Acts 20:28--- He has purchased with His own blood.

Romans 9:5--- Christ came...God blessed forever.

 2 CORINTHIANS 13:14 TEACHES TRINITY?

EPHESIANS 3:9 DID JESUS CREATE ALL THINGS?

COLOSSIANS 2:9 IS JESUS THE GODHEAD?

PHILIPPIANS 2:6-11 PROVES PREEXISTENCE

1 TIMOTHY 3:16---God was manifest in the flesh

TITUS 2:13---Our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ

TITUS 3:2 God our Savior toward man APPEARED

Hebrews 1:8--- Your throne O' God.

Hebrews 7:1-3 ---Is Melchizedek a theophany of Jesus?

1 John 5:7--- And these three are one.

1 John 5:20--- Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God...

2 Peter 2:1---God AND our Savior Jesus Christ 

2 Peter 3:18---Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ 

Revelation 1:8--- JESUS IS THE ALMIGHTY?

Revelation 1:17--- First and the Last (Isaiah 44:6

Revelation 17:14--- WHO IS THE KING OF KINGS.

       

Your brother in our Lord Jesus Christ,

Brother Mark.

 

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Now, I, myself, do not find one verse in the entire Bible that prophesies of God the Son being sent down from heaven to incarnate himself as the Son of God having TWO natures, one divine, and one human.

More Scriptures that show the TRUE Jesus to be the fulfillment of the Scriptures of PROPHECY that you can look up on your own: Luk_24:6-7, Luk_9:22, Luk_18:31-33; Mat_16:21, Mat_17:22-23, Mat_20:18-19; Mar_8:31-32, Mar_9:31; Mar_10:33-34; 1Pe_1:10-11; Rev_19:10+++ Joh_16:4-5, Joh_16:16-17, Joh_17:11-13+++Luk_24:26-27, Luk_24:46, Luk_21:22; Mat_26:54, Mat_26:56; Joh_19:24-37; Act_3:18, Act_13:29-31, Act_13:33; 1Co_15:3-4

In the law: Gen_3:15, Gen_14:18, Gen_22:18, Gen_49:10; Lev_16:2-19; Num_21:8, Num_35:25; Deu_18:15-19; Joh_3:14, Joh_5:46; Act_3:22-24, Act_7:37; Heb_3:5, Heb_7:1, Heb_9:8, Heb_10:1

In the prophets: Luk_24:27; Act_10:43; Isa_7:14, Isa_9:6, Isa_11:1-10, Isa_28:16, Isa_40:1-11, Isa_42:1-4, Isa_49:1-8, Isa_50:2-6; Isa_52:13-15, Isa_53:1-12, Isa_61:1-3; Jer_23:5, Jer_33:14; Eze_17:22, Eze_34:23; Dan_2:44, Dan_7:13, Dan_9:24-27; Hos_1:7-11, Hos_3:5; Joe_2:28-32; Amo_9:11; Mic_5:1-4; Hag_2:7-9; Zec_6:12, Zec_9:9, Zec_11:8-13, Zec_12:10, Zec_13:7, Zec_14:4; Mal_3:1-3, Mal_4:2-6

In the psalms: Psa_2:1-12, Psa_16:9-11, Psa_22:1-31, Psa_40:6-8, Psa_69:1-36, Psa_72:1-20, Psa_88:1-18; Psa_109:4-20, Psa_110:1-7, Psa_118:22; Joh_5:39; Act_17:2-3; 1Pe_1:11; Rev_19:10.

 

And as I promised here is the list of the six main headings that list all the studies I have on this subject as to who Jesus is according to what the Bible ITSELF teaches us in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of Almighty God.

I will also give this list of the six following headings again at the end of this study so you can stay focused on one study at a time.

 

>>>A LIST OF STUDIES ON THE TRINITY!<<<

 

>>>IS THE DOCTRINE OF ONENESS BIBLICAL?<<<

 

>>>WHO OR WHAT IS THE HOLY SPIRIT?<<<

 

>>>IS JESUS THE CREATOR?<<<

 

>>>WAS JESUS CREATED?<<<

 

>>>WHAT IF YOU ARE WRONG?<<<

 

And for further studies on false teachings of the gospel of Jesus Christ please read the studies listed throughout all the studies here at AMatterOfTruth.com and view the videos under the tab at the top called >>>FALSE TEACHINGS!<<< Under that heading, you will find the facts of what religious groups like Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Islam teach about Jesus as compared to the word of TRUTH, the Holy Bible, as in, the WHOLE word of Almighty God. And by the phrase “the WHOLE word of Almighty God”, I mean that all verses of Scripture must be correctly interpreted in the LIGHT of the whole word of God and compared with all other correctly interpreted verses of Scripture, as opposed to, interpreting a few verses that are taken OUT of context to teach what is not the truth of the WHOLE word of God. For you see, whenever any INTERPRETATION of a verse of Scripture CONTRADICTS any other verses of Scripture that are correctly interpreted in the light of the whole word of Almighty God then that INTERPRETATION is NOT the correct interpretation. So always interpret the hard “controversial” verses in the light of the SIMPLE CLEAR verses that do not need any interpretation to understand what they mean.

Plain and simple, if the gospel you have been taught does NOT follow the teachings of the WHOLE word of Almighty God under the NEW COVENANT written in the New Testament, then you have NOT been taught the TRUE BIBLICAL Jesus. Again, this does NOT necessarily mean that you are not saved, but rather, that you may not be walking with God in the FULL potential that our heavenly Father desires for you to walk. If you do not understand what I mean by this please be patient, this will all become clear as you read all the studies I give links to within this study. But you must have a sincere desire to know the truth and nothing but the truth.

So let us begin this study in God's word by me giving you a list of titles of Jesus during the days of his FLESH. Again, I will give this same list at the end of this study as well but for now, I would like you to simply read the list of titles of who Jesus was CALLED before Jesus ascended into heaven. There are actually FIVE AGES of Jesus and Jesus is something different in each of those five ages. I will also give the link to the study on the five ages of Jesus at the end of this study as well. But for now, please stay focused on reading THIS entire study first. Here are twelve titles of Jesus as to who Jesus is according to what the Bible ITSELF teaches us in SIMPLICITY.

 

Remember that Jesus is something DIFFERENT is each of the FIVE AGES of Jesus. So please read the study “THE FIVE AGES OF JESUS!”

 

#1. Jesus is the “I AM HE”!

 

Jesus said and if you do not believe I am he you will die in your sins. In other words, Jesus is the fulfillment of PROPHECY! What I mean by this is that Jesus is the one who was prophesied to come. Please read the following studies “PROPHECIES OF JESUS BEING THE MESSIAH!”, 365 PROPHECIES OF JESUS!”, “HISTORICAL EVIDENCE OF JESUS!”, “WHO IS THE TRUE MESSIAH?”, and “JOHN 8:24 IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE I AM HE!”

 

#2. Jesus is the Son of MAN!

 

Jesus fulfilled the prophecies in the Old Testament Scriptures in the ORDER that the events of prophecy were prophesied. So this list of who Jesus is, according to the Bible itself is listed in the order that they were prophesied. In other words, Jesus did not come as the King of kings FIRST. But rather, Jesus was born of a VIRGIN first to suffer for the sins of the people. And then, Jesus will come again as the King of Israel. Please read the study “JESUS THE SON OF MAN!”

 

#3. Jesus is the CHRIST!

 

The word “Christ” does indeed mean the Messiah but before the Son of MAN, Jesus, actually became the Messiah by his death on the cross, God ANOINTED the Son of MAN. Many times in the Bible the word translated as “SENT” means COMMISSIONED and sending, as opposed to Orthodox Christianity meaning of being sent down from heaven. In other words, God ANOINTED the Son of MAN at his baptism by John the Baptist with His Holy Spirit and power to be able to accomplish the task that his God and Father commissioned or sent him out into the world to do. Please read the studies “JESUS THE CHRIST!” and “JESUS SAID WHO DO YOU SAY THAT I AM?”

 

#4. Jesus is the SON OF God!

 

Jesus was prophesied to be called the Son of God but the Son of MAN was not called the Son of God until his baptism by John the Baptist. This was when Yahweh the Father announced the Son of MAN as being His Son in whom he is well pleased. Please read the study “JESUS THE SON OF GOD!”

 

#5. Jesus is our FELLOW SERVANT!

 

Jesus is our BROTHER. We will be JOINT-HEIRS with Jesus. Jesus is the FIRSTFRUITS unto God. Jesus is the CAPTAIN of our Salvation gone before us. Jesus is the FIRSTBORN of every creature in the image of God. And we are being conformed into the image of God’s dear Son. Jesus is the firstborn among MANY BRETHREN. Please read the study “JESUS OUR FELLOW SERVANT!”

 

#6. Jesus is the ONLY begotten Son of God!

 

To learn the TRUE meaning of “ONLY BEGOTTEN Son of God” please read the study “JESUS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD!”

 

#7. Jesus is the FULNESS of the Godhead BODILY!

 

For the true SOUND Biblical meaning of Jesus being the fulness of the Godhead please read the study “JESUS THE FULNESS OF THE GODHEAD!”

 

#8. Jesus is GOD!

 

And according to the Bible ITSELF, Jesus is “A” God under and subject TO HIS God and Father who ALONE is the ONLY TRUE God. Please BEGIN with the study “37 FACTS TO PONDER ABOUT JESUS BEING GOD!” And under four numbers I will list four things that Jesus is NOT.

 

#9. Jesus is NOT the FATHER!

 

Please read ALL the studies under the heading >>>IS THE ONENESS DOCTRINE BIBLICAL?<<<

 

#10. Jesus is NOT Almighty God Himself!

 

But rather Jesus is the IMAGE OF the invisible God. Please read the study “IS JESUS ALMIGHTY GOD?”

 

#11. Jesus is NOT Yahweh Himself!

 

Jesus came out from God but that does not mean that Jesus is Yahweh Himself. Please read the study “IS JESUS YAHWEH?”

 

#12. Jesus is NOT God the Son, the second person of the Godhead Trinity God who always existed without beginning in eternity past!

 

Please read ALL the studies listed under the heading >>>A LIST OF STUDIES ON THE TRINITY!<<<

 

 

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