1 JOHN 5:20 JESUS CHRIST THIS IS THE TRUE GOD!
Does 1 John 5:20 truly teach us that Jesus Christ IS THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God?
Let us begin this study is God's word by reading 1 John 5:20.
“And we know that the Son of God is come, and has given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
As I have said many times ANY verse when taken out of context and viewed ALONE and APART from the REST of God's word may SEEM to be saying something that it is NOT TRULY saying. You see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, when someone DOGMATICALLY teaches you that a certain verse means this or that, then sometimes you can not see any other meaning that what you have been dogmatically demanded to believe. In other words, some of you may ONLY see that words that I EMPHASISED above and therefore conclude that Jesus Christ HIMSELF IS the TRUE GOD. But is this what the WHOLE word of Almighty God teaches us. Let us read this verse from some other translations and go deeper into the rest of God's word considering closely the CONTEXT and the COMPARING of other scripture with scripture to let the word of TRUTH, the Holy Bible teaches us what Almighty God and his Son Jesus are TRULY teaching us. Let us first COMPARE a very similar and like verse that Jesus himself spoke in John 17:3.
“These words spoke Jesus (Keep in mind that John is narrating these words of Jesus after Jesus was already crucified, raised fro the dead and glorified being GIVEN ETERNAL LIFE by his God and Father and ALSO GIVEN all power to give this same ETERNAL LIFE to whomsoever the Father GIVES him. The setting for this prayer of Jesus to his God and Father is just before his crucifixion), and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify your Son, that your Son also may glorify you:(in others words Jesus is standing on the promise of his God and Father that he will NOT leave his soul in hell. See Psalm 16 and Acts 2:22-36.) 2. As YOU (Father) have GIVEN him power over all flesh, that he (Jesus the SON OF Almighty God the Father) should give eternal life to as many as YOU have GIVEN him. 3. And THIS IS life eternal (now ask yourself the question WHAT IS it that we MUST BELIEVE in order to receive ETERNAL LIFE in the world to come? THIS IS life eternal), THAT they might KNOW YOU (FATHER) the ONLY TRUE God, AND Jesus Christ, whom YOU have SENT (or whom YOU have COMMISSIONED and HIGHLY EXALTED to be “A” god to rule and reign at your right hand. The Greek word that is translated as “SENT” here means in the literal to commission and send forth to an appointed task). 4. I have glorified you on the earth: I have finished the work which YOU GAVE me to do. 5. And now, O Father, glorify you me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world was. (The glory that Jesus is speaking of here is the promised prophesied glory that his God and Father prophesied that Jesus world receive for dong all his Father's will. Please read Proverbs 8:30,31 “Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; 31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.” Now the only way Jesus could have been in this glorious state of always rejoicing before his God and Father IN the INHABITABLE part of the EARTH BEFORE the WORLD was ever CREATED would be in the MIND and PLAN of Almighty God to one day BEGET or bring forth into existence a SON who he would HIGHLY EXACT after his Son became obedient unto death on the cross to do all his Father's will that his God and Father SENT his SON to do.)”
So then, in this passage of scripture we can clearly see that the one TRUE God is Almighty God the FATHER. You see the SUBJECT of this verse is ETERNAL LIFE. Jesus says THIS IS ETERNAL LIFE. So when we ask ourselves the question WHAT IS eternal life? Jesus says THAT we may KNOW. So now the question becomes KNOW WHAT so THAT we may receive ETERNAL LIFE in the world to come? Jesus goes on to say THAT they may KNOW YOU Father to be the TRUE God. You see my dear brother and sister in our Lord Jesus Christ, one of the reason that Jesus came was to SHOW us the FATHER. Now Jesus does NOT stop there is his explaining to us WHAT we must KNOW in order to receive ETERNAL LIFE in the word to come. Remember ETERNAL LIFE is the subject of THIS IS. The Jews already believed in the one TRUE God, but this is NOT all of what Almighty God the Father wants us to BELIEVE. It is the WILL of Almighty God the Father that we ALSO believe in his SON Jesus THE CHRIST the ANOINT ONE whom Almighty God appointed to be the MESSIAH. So then Jesus continues to says WHAT we must believe in order that we receive ETRENAL LIFE by saying that we KNOW the FATHER to be the TRUE God AND that we also KNOW Jesus Christ the ANOINTED ONE whom Almighty God the Father has SENT. In others words we must believe in BOTH Almighty God the Father the TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God AND in his SON Jesus THE CHRSIT or the ANOINTED ONE whom his God and Father SENT to be the MESSIAH. The Bible clearly teaches us that if we do NOT have the SON, then we do NOT have the Father. Let us take a moment as read these verses that clearly and plainly teach us that we must have BOTH the Father AND his Son Jesus in order to have ETERNAL LIFE. Please read 2 John 1:3-11.
“Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, AND from the Lord Jesus Christ, the SON OF the Father, in truth and love. (the apostles of Jesus Christ make it very clear to us that there are TWO in whom we must believe) 4. I rejoiced greatly that I found of your children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father. 5. And now I beseech you, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto you, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. 6. And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it. 7. For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess NOT that Jesus Christ is come in the FLESH. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. (speaking of ETERNAL LIFE in the world to come. Jesus came OUT FROM Almighty God the Father when God SPOKE his WORD to the Virgin Mary by his messenger Gabriel and when Mary agree with the WORD of Almighty God and said be it done unto me ACCORDING to your WORD and then the eternal Spirit move upon Mary and the SON OF Almighty God was conceived in the womb of the woman Mary and was born as a human male child nine months later. Then at the baptism of Jesus the eternal Spirit descended from heaven to ANOINT the MAN Jesus to become THE CHRIST. Jesus said several times that he could do NOTHING in and of HIMSELF and that the Father IN HIM did the works through the human hands of Jesus. Please read the study “JESUS THE CHRIST” for a deeper understanding that HUMAN Jesus who was EMPOWERED to dod the works that he did THROUGH the ETERNAL SPIRIT of his God and Father who DWELT IN his SON Jesus. This is the DOCTRINE of the teaching of CHRIST.) 9. Whosoever transgresses, and abides NOT in the DOCTRINE of CHRIST, has NOT God. He that abides IN the DOCTRINE of CHRIST, he has BOTH the Father AND the Son. 10. If there come any unto you, and bring NOT THIS DOCTRINE, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11. For he that bids him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.”
Jesus said these same WORKS that I do YOU shall do ALSO because I go to the Father. This was when Jesus died on the cross to CLEANSE us so the Almighty God the Father could DWELL IN US even as the Father DWELT IN his SON Jesus. John is saying to us NOT to LOSE this DOCTRINE of CHRIST the ANOINTING within US, which is the SAME eternal Spirit the DWELT IN Jesus THE CHRIST, the SON OF Almighty God. Then we read in 1 John 2:22-24 again where we must believe in BOTH Almighty God the Father AND in his SON Jesus, and if we do NOT have the SON, then we do NOT have the Father either. In other words, in order to receive ETERNAL LIFE in the world to come we must believe in BOTH the Father AND the SON.
1 John 2:22-24. “Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is THE CHRIST? He is antichrist, that denies the Father AND the Son. 23 Whosoever denies the SON, the same has NOT the Father: (but) he that acknowledges the SON has the Father ALSO. 24. Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the SON, AND in the Father. 25. And this is the promise that he has promised us, even ETERNAL LIFE.”
The Bible makes it very clear to us that Almighty God the Father is NOT his SON Jesus and that Jesus the SON OF Almighty God the Father is NOT Almighty God the Father. John again make it clear to us that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES in the SON OF Almighty God, then Almighty God the Father himself DWELLS in them. Please read 1 John 4:1-17.
“Beloved, believe NOT every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2. Hereby know you the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus CHRIST is come in the FLESH is of God: (The LITERAL Greek reads that every spirit that confesses that Jesus ANOINTED in the FLESH is of God. To be ANOINTED means to be FILLED WITH the eternal Holy Spirit of Almighty God the Father. The word of TRUTH clearly teaches us that Almighty God the Father DWELT IN his Son Jesus and NOT that Jesus HIMSELF IS THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God who ALONE is the FATHER. Almighty God the Father SWELLS IN US, but that does NOT make us to be ALMIGHTY God. We can do NOTHING in and of OURSELVES, but we can do ALL things THROUGH CHRIST or the ANOINTING of the Holy Spirit who DWELLS IN US as believers in the SON OF Almighty God the Father.) 3. And every spirit that confesses NOT that Jesus CHRIST is come in the FLESH (or every spirit that confess NOT that Jesus ANOINTED is come in the FLESH. In other words, any one who confess NOT that the ANOINTING of Almighty God the Father is come in the FLESH body of his SON Jesus) is NOT of God: (We must believe in the ANOINTING of Jesus in the FLESH. This is the DOCTRINE or the teaching of CHRIST, which is Jesus the SON OF Almighty God being the ANOITED ONE of hos God and Father the one TRUE God. And if NOT, then that spirit of teaching is NOT of God) and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof you have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4. You are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is IN you, than he that is in the world. (it is Almighty God the Father HIMSELF who is IN you as a believer in his SON Jesus.) 5. They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world hears them. 6. We are of God: he that KNOWS God hears us; he that is not of God hears not us. Hereby know we the spirit of TRUTH, and the spirit of error. 7. Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loves is born of God, and knows God. 8. He that loves not knows not God; for God is love. 9. In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God SENT his only begotten SON into the world, that we might live through him. 10. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and SENT his SON to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12. No man has SEEN God at ANY time (and yet many men did indeed SEE Jesus the SON OF Almighty God the Father). If we love one another, God (the ONE TRUE ALMIGHTY God the FATHER HIMSELF) DWELLS IN US, and his love is perfected in us. 13. Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and HE IN US, BECAUSE he has given us of his SPIRIT. (therefore if you have the eternal Holy SPIRIT DWELLING IN you, then ALMIGHTY God the FATHER HIMSELF DWELLS IN you for the Father and the eternal Spirit are ONE and the SELF SAME BEING. On other words, there are ONLY TWO that the word of TRUTH teaches us to believe in and they are Almighty God the FATHER who is a SPIRIT, AND his SON Jesus who is the Son of MAN a human being that was FILLED WITH the eternal SPIRIT of hos God and Father. Jesus is NOT the FATHER and Almighty God the Father the ONE TRUE God who is an invisible SPIRIT which no man has even SEEN at ANY time is NOT his SON Jesus.) 14. And we have seen and do testify that the Father SENT the SON to be the Savior of the world. (Almighty God the Father did NOT send HIMSELF to be the savior of the world, but rather Almighty God the Father SENT his SON Jesus WITH his SELF SAME ETERNAL SPIRIT DWELLING IN his SON to be the savior of the world. The word of TRUTH teaches us that Jesus OVERCAME SIN THROUGH the ETERNAL SPIRIT. This is WHY Jesus instructed hi disciples to tarry in Jerusalem UNTIL they be ENDUE with POWER from on high, which is the BAPTISM or complete SUBMERSION of the Holy Spirit of Almighty God the Father. This is the CHRIST or the ANOINTING of the Holy Spirit where believers are FILLED with the Holy Spirit speaking in other tongues and magnifying God.) 15. WHOSOEVER shall CONFESS that Jesus is the SON OF God, God (ALMIGHTY God the FATHER HIMSELF) DWELLS IN HIM, and he in God. (please notice that the word of TRUTH does NOT say that whosoever confesses the Jesus is the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God then God the Father will DWELL IN them. But rather the CLEAR, PLAIN, and SIMPLE word of Almighty God says whosoever shall believe that Jesus is the SON OF Almighty God that God himself would DWELL IN them.) 16. And we have known and believed the love that God has to us. God is love; and he that dwells in love dwells in God, and God IN HIM. 17. Herein is our love made perfect , that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is (or AS Jesus was when Jesus was in the world being FILLED with the eternal Spirit), so are we in this world.”
Now that you understand that we must believe in BOTH in order to receive ETERNAL LIFE in the world to come let us read the verse in question one more time. Please read 1 John 5:2 again KNOWING that be must believe is BOTH Almighty God the Father AND in his SON Jesus. 1 John 5:2.
“And we know that the SON OF God is come (HOW do we KNOW this TRUTH? The answer is BECAUSE Almighty God was WITH his SON Jesus CONFIRMING his WORD with SIGNS following. Many times we read where people BELIEVES in Jesus being the CHRIST the SON OF the living and true God, BECAUSE of the WORKS that Almighty God did THROUGH his SON Jesus), and (HE the SON OF Almighty God the Father who came to SHOW us the FATHER) has given us an understanding, THAT we may KNOW HIM (speaking of Almighty God the FATHER whom Jesus came to SHOW us the Father) that is TRUE, and we are IN HIM that is TRUE (again speaking of Almighty God the FATHER BECAUSE we are), EVEN IN his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, AND eternal life.”
You see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, Jesus IS ETERNAL LIFE if so be that we believe in Jesus the CHRIST, the ANOINTED ONE, the SON OF Almighty God the Father. And WHOSOEVER believes in the SON OF Almighty God the Father has the Father the one TRUE God ALSO. In other words, IF we are IN the SON, the we are IN the ONE TRUE ALMIGHTY God the Father ALSO, and THIS IS ETERNAL LIFE to believe in BOTH the Father AND the SON. This is God's WILL that we HONOR the SON Jesus EVEN AS we HONOR Almighty God the Father the one TRUE God. Please read John 5:15-32.
“The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole. 16. And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to SLAY him,because he had done these things ON the Sabbath day. (Here again we see the Jews wanted to KILL Jesus, but this time it was because to them Jesus SUPPOSEDLY broke the Sabbath day, at least in the eyes of the Pharisees, when Jesus healed a man BY the Holy Spirit of Almighty God the Father ON the Sabbath day.) 17. BUT Jesus answered them, My Father WORKS hitherto, and I work. (In other words, Jesus is saying BUT I am ONLY OBEYING what my Father is SHOWING me to DO. Further down in this study you will understand that this means that the Father through his Holy Spirit was showing Jesus what to do and when to do it and Jesus simply OBEYED the leading of the Holy Spirit. In simple words, Jesus was saying I am only doing what Almighty God my Father told me to do.) 18. Therefore (or for this REASON) the JEWS sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the Sabbath, but said ALSO that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. (In other words, the JEWS incorrectly interpreted the words of Jesus and FALSELY ACCUSED Jesus of making himself EQUAL to Almighty God. But as you will plainly see as you continue to read the CONTEXT that Jesus ANSWERED in his DEFENSE the FOLLOWING) 19. Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do NOTHING OF HIMSELF, but what he sees the Father do: for what things soever he does, these also does the Son likewise. (In other words, Jesus is saying, I am NOT making myself EQUAL with my God and Father, because the SON can do NOTHING OF HIMSELF. But I must OBEY my God and Father to DO what ever my Father is DOING. That is to say, what ever Jesus the Son of MAN saw in a dream or a vision or in the written word of God and whatever Jesus heard the Father say to do by the inward voice of the Holy Spirit, then Jesus simply OBEYED what he knew that the Father was telling him to do. This is what Jesus meant when he said his Father was WORKING on the Sabbath day, and so I also must work the same works that I see my father doing. Now to ME, this DEFENSE that Jesus makes right after the Jews FALSELY ACCUSE him of making himself EQUAL with God clearly teaches us that Jesus was in NO WAY claiming to be the great I AM nor was Jesus making himself to be EQUAL with Almighty God the Father, because Jesus HIMSELF clearly and plain said that the SON can do NOTHING OF HIMSELF. Further on you will learn that it was the Father DWELLING IN Jesus the SON who actually did the WORKS that the SON could NOT do OF HIMSELF.) 20. For the Father loves the Son, and shows him all things that himself does: and he will show him greater works than these, that you may marvel. 21. For as the Father raises up the dead, and quickens them; even so the Son quickens whom he will. 22. For the Father judges no man, but has COMMITTED all judgment unto the Son: 23. That (or so that) all men should HONOR the Son, EVEN AS they HONOR the Father. He that honors NOT the Son honors NOT the Father which has SENT him. (In other words, the Bible teaches us that we must believe and have BOTH the Father AND the SON in order to have ETERNAL LIFE in the world to come. But yet the doctrine of the trinity wants us to believe that Jesus IS the I AM as in ONE and the SAME BEING as the I AM. Yes there is absolutely no doubt that Jesus came OUT FROM the one true and only ALMIGHTY God. But this by no means that Jesus IS the one true and ONLY ALMIGHTY God. You see, THE ALMIGHTY God has NO beginning and has NOT been BEGOTTEN, but Jesus the SON OF Almighty God was BEGOTTEN or brought into existence. Yes, there is no doubt that Jesus came OUT FROM Almighty God by or through the spoken WORD of Almighty God. You see God said, “I AM THAT I AM”, which LITERALLY mean that Almighty God said “I SHALL BECOME who I am BECOMING”, which could very well be interpreted that Almighty God HIMSELF literally BECAME a HUMAN BEING. But in the light of the WHOLE word of God we understand the God created all things by his very own spoken WORD. So AGAIN please read “A TRINITARIAN DILEMMA-PHILIPPIANS 2:6” where the Word laid aside all the divine advantages that he had when the Word BECAME FLESH a HUMAN BEING and dwelt among us.) 24. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that SENT me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.(All through the New Testament we see TWO in whom that we taught to believe in, Almighty God the Father AND the SON Jesus. Please read the study “IS THE HOLY SPIRIT a PERSON?” for a deeper understanding that the ETERNAL SPIRIT IS Almighty God the Father HIMSELF who is a SPIRIT.) 25. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. (Jesus has the POWER to raise the dead, because the God OF Jesus GAVE his Son this authority, which you will clearly see in the context of this verse that follows.) 26. For (or BECAUSE) AS the Father has life IN himself; SO has he GIVEN to the Son to have life IN himself; (in other words, Jesus the SON did NOT always eternally exist with or by the side of his God and Father from all eternity past except in the mind and plan of Almighty God. Every thing that Jesus is of has was GIVEN TO him BY his God and Father the one true and only ALMIGHTY God.) 27. And has GIVEN him authority to execute judgment ALSO, BECAUSE he is the Son of MAN. (In other words, all that Jesus was GIVEN TO him BY his God and Father was NOT because Jesus IS THE Almighty God, NOR was it because Jesus was the SON OF GOD, but rather the REASON that Jesus was HIGHLY EXALTED and GIVEN NAME above all name is BECAUSE Jesus is the Son of MAN.) 28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, (Again, all that Jesus is and all that Jesus has INCLUDING IMMORTAL LIFE and the AUTHORITY to raise the dead and give to whom so ever Jesus wills was GIVEN TO him BY HIS God and Father the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God. Remember that Almighty God said I AM THAT I AM, or I will BE what I will BE, or I shall BECOME what or who I am BECOMING. The WORD BECAME a HUMAN BEING so that Almighty God HIMSELF could DWELL IN this body of FLESH that he created for himself to dwell in, which was the SON OF Almighty God the Father. Jesus was GIVEN all POWER to raise the dead and JUDGMENT to give ETERNAL LIFE to whom so ever he wills, BECAUSE Jesus was the Son of MAN and NOT because Jesus was FULLY God, nor because Jesus was the SON of God, but rather BECAUSE that Jesus was the Son of MAN a HUMAN BEING that OVERCAME the enemy BY the Holy Spirit of Almighty God the DWELT IN Jesus. This is what the WHOLE word of God clearly teaches us.) 29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. 30. I can OF MY OWN SELF DO NOTHING: (Simply ask yourself the question HOW can the TRUE God do NOTHING in and of HIMSELF? The TRUTH is that Jesus is NOT the TRUE God who is the FATHER ALONE who DWELT IN HIS SON Jesus as the TRUE God who actually did the WORKS through the human hands of his SON Jesus.) as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek NOT mine OWN will, BUT the will of the Father which has SENT me. (Now in all honesty does this sound like Jesus is saying that he himself is the great I AM or that Jesus is saying that he is EQUAL to Almighty God the Father? Absolutely NOT! Jesus himself clearly and plainly said with absolutely NO interpretation needed that he could do NOTHING in and of himself. Can you not see my dear brothers and sisters, in our Lord Jesus Christ, that IF Jesus were TRULY the Almighty God himself or even EQUAL with Almighty God, then Jesus would have never said that he could do NOTHING of HIMSELF.) 31. If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. 32. There is another that bears witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesses of me is true.”
So here in this passage of scripture we see that it was the Jews who wanted to kill Jesus BEFORE these Jews FALSELY ACCUSED Jesus of making himself EQUAL with Almighty God his God and Father because they incorrectly interpreted the words of Jesus who simply said that God was his Father. The truth of the matter is that the Jews just wanted to KILL Jesus for ANY reason. For you see, in the very next chapter in John chapter 9 right after the Jews picked up some stones to KILL him for simply saying that God was his FATHER we see Jesus healing another man on the Sabbath day and the Jews once again FALSELY ACCUSED Jesus. Only this time the Jews falsely ACCUSED Jesus of being a SINNER. Please read John 9:16, where Jesus is NOW being FALSELY accused of not even being a man of God and a SINNER on top of that. Wow! From one extreme to the other with the FALSE ACCUSATIONS. First these Jews FALSELY accuse Jesus of making himself EQUAL with God and NOW they are accusing Jesus of not even being a man of God and a SINNER all because Jesus healed a man on the Sabbath day. The truth of the matters is that the SOME of the Jews simply wanted Jesus DEAD and out of the way, because Jesus was drawing followers to himself and was making the Pharisees look like hypocrites.
“Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is NOT of God, because he keeps not the Sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a SINNER do such miracles? And there was a DIVISION among them.”
So SOME believed that Jesus was a SINNER and other wondered HOW could a man do such mighty works if indeed he was a SINNER. So in TRUTH they did not know for sure who Jesus was, but some of the LEADERS threatened that if any Jew calls Jesus the CHRIST, then they will be thrown out of the synagogue. A little further on in John 9:30-38 we see that Jesus openly says that he IS the SON of God.
“The man (referring to the blind man from birth who was healed) answered and said unto them(the Jews), Why herein is a marvelous thing, that you know not from whence he is, and yet he has opened mine eyes. (In other words, the blind man who was healed finds it funny so to speak that these wise Jewish scholars cannot see the evidence that is right in front of their faces that proves without a doubt that this man Jesus is FROM Almighty God and that God is WITH him or else HOW could this man Jesus DO such a marvelous thing as heal a blind man who was born blind? The man who was healed goes on to say to these so called wise Jews) 31. Now we know that God hears not sinners: but if any MAN be a worshiper of God, and does his will, him he hears. 32. Since the world began was it not heard that any MAN opened the eyes of one that was born blind. 33. IF this MAN were NOT OF God, he could do nothing. (But here I am, a man who was BORN BLIND and yet this MAN has HEALED me and now I SEE. So clearly to me this MAN Jesus is INDEED from God and God is WITH him or else he could do NOTHING and I would still be blind. DUH, even a sinner like me can see that Almighty God is WITH this MAN Jesus who HEALED me, so why cannot you see this truth?) 34. They answered and said unto him, You were altogether born in sins, and do you teach us? And they cast him out. (this shows us how PRIDEFUL the Jewish leaders were and why they could not see that Almighty God was WITH Jesus. At least SOME of them could not or would not humble themselves to see the truth.) 35. Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Do you believe on the SON of God? (please notice that Jesus asked a very specific question which was, Do you believe on the SON OF God, and NOT, Do you believe that I AM Almighty God, nor Do you believe that I am EQUAL with Almighty God, but rather, Do you believe on the SON OF God?) 36. He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? (or who is the SON OF God, master that I may believe on the one who is the SON OF God?) 37. And Jesus said unto him, You have both seen him, and it is he that talks with you. 38. And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshiped him.”
So then, this man who was blind from birth that had just been healed by this MAN Jesus was now being asked by the MAN Jesus whom the healed knew had just healed him if he believed in the SON OF God? And the man who was healed answered the MAN Jesus who just healed him WHO is that one who is the SON OF God. And Jesus said I AM HE. And the man who was healed answered the MAN Jesus who healed him, YES master or YES Lord, I BELIEVE that YOU are the SON OF God. Now some of you who are reading this study in God's word may have been cast out of a church for NOT believing the false doctrines that they teach. If this is you, be of good cheer for Jesus knows that you have held fast to his word of TRUTH just as this man who was born blind held fast to the truth that he KNEW that IF God was NOT WITH this MAN Jesus who just healed him then he would NOT have been healed, because God does not hear the prayer of a SINNER to heal another. And Jesus knows also those of you who are truly seeking to know the truth so I assure you that as you CONTINUE in God's word you will come to know the TRUTH and the truth will make you free. You see, the MORE that you see the TRUTH that Jesus was a MAN who was ANOINTED with the Holy Spirit of his God and Father, then the more you will walk in the steps of Jesus knowing that since Jesus, being a MAN, overcame sin BY or THROUGH the Holy Spirit of his God and Father that DWELT IN him, then you will know also that this SAME Holy Spirit now DWELLS IN YOU to endue you with power from on high. This TRUTH will then increase your FAITH to do the SAME works that Jesus did as you CONTINUE to feed and meditate on this TRUTH to deposit it as a GOOD TREASURE deep within your HEART so that NO man can steal it from you with deceitful false teaching. This is the main reason of why I write so many studies exposing the ERRORS of INTERPRETATION of the scriptures that have FALSELY conclude Jesus to be FULLY ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF in the flesh. For you see, because this false teaching of Jesus being The ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF some Christians are MISLEAD to then FALSELY conclude the ONLY Jesus can heal the sick and ONLY Jesus can live without sin. And therefore some Christian continue to live in sin, when they do not have to. And also some Christians who have been mislead to falsely believe that ONLY Jesus can heal, because they truly believe that Jesus is THE ALMIGHTY God and this was the reason WHY Jesus was able to heal, then because of this misguided belief they fail to see that they themselves have been EMPOWERED to HEAL the sick. Some Christians do not even know whether or not it is God's will for THEM to be healed. And this is BECAUSE they have NOT been taught the TRUTH of the WHOLE word of Almighty God and how God ANOINTED his SON Jesus to DO the works that God sent his SON to DO. They have NOT been taught the TRUTH that this verse SAME ANOINTING now DWELLS IN THEM as believers in Jesus as the SON of Almighty God the Father. I also teach what I teach because I am thoroughly convinced that NO doctrine of the church that DRIVES people AWAY from God can possibly be a TRUE teaching of God's word of TRUTH. Yes, that is what I just said, the doctrine of the trinity has driven AWAY people from coming to God as well as has caused some Christians to be deceived by false teaches and be converted to another religion. Now you may have never realized this before, but there are Christians who are now turning to ISLAM, because Muslims are EXPOSING some of these SAME ERRORS that I am exposing. But then these Muslims are adding to these truths in God's word like God is GREATER than Jesus their lies telling these weak Christians that ISLAM is closer to the truth than Christianity and that Muslims worship the SAME God of Abraham that the Jews and Christian worship. And in about five minutes times this innocent untaught Christian has been converted to ISLAM all BECAUSE that have not been taught the TRUTH of the WHOLE word of God. Also I have personally heard people say that they word believe in God IF it were NOT for the confusing and impossible to understand doctrine of three persons in one God and one God in three persons, and yet not three Gods, but three Gods in ONE God. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, three SEPARATE persons who are ALL God, but not three Gods, but three persons in ONE God. Seriously there are some who would indeed believe in God IF it were NOT for some of these doctrines of MEN who FALSELY teach that Jesus is THE ALMIGHTY God who was also a MAN at the SAME time according to these man made doctrines of the Roman Catholic church, which were kept by SOME Protestants who broke away from the Roman Catholic church because of OTHER false teachings. One of the principle teachings of the man made doctrine of the trinity is that Jesus is CO EQUAL with Almighty God the Father meaning that Jesus is EQUAL with the Father is every way where neither is GREATER than nor LESS than the other. This is WHY those who teach the doctrine of the trinity try so hard to force verses like John 5:18 to DOGMATICALLY mean without fail that Jesus was making himself EQUAL with his Father, or 1 John 5:2 to mean without fail the Jesus HIMSELF is THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God, who ALONE is the Father. Yes when these and other verses are viewed ALONE and APART from the REST of God's word the do SEEM to be saying that Jesus IS GOD son Christian ASSUME that since Jesus IS God, then he has to be THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God, because they have been INCORRRECTLY taught that the OLD Testament clearly says that there is only ONE God. But this is NOT what the OLD Testament teaches us. Yes agian SOME verses SEEM to be sayin that there is only ONE God, but there are other verses that CLEARLY teach us that the TRUE God is the God OF or OVER all the other gods. And this does NOT mean that Almighty God is over FALSE IDOL man made gods, but rather means that APART from or WITHOUT the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God teh Father they woud be no others gods. In other words, all the gods who are in AUTHORITY have been MADE to be or BECOME gods BY the one TRUE and only ALMIGHTY God the Father. Please see the study "OUR GOD IS ONE!" for a deeper understanding that there is only ONE TRUE ALMIGHTY God who created or brought into existence ALL other gods including his SON Jesus. So then, this man made doctrine of the trinity has NOTHING whatsoever to do with whether or not a person is SAVED or not. These is not one single verse in the whole word of Almighty God where we are taught that we MUST believe that Almighty God is a "TRINITY" or that we must believe in THREE in order to be saved and receive eternal life in the world to come. But we are taught that we must believe in BOTH or in TWO who are Almighty God the Father the ONE TRUE God who is OVER or God OF his SON Jesus. And if we dod NOT BELIEVE in Jesus the SON OF the one true and only ALMIGHTY God the Father, then we do NOT have the Father either. This is why the Jews and the Muslims will NOT be saved UNLESS they BELIEVE and CONFESS Jesus to be the SON OF Almighty God whom th eTRUE God SENT to be the MESSIAH or teh savior of all the world that WHOSEVER BELIEVES in the only begotten SON OF God shall NOT perish, but shall recieve ETERNAL LIFE in the world to come. Thanks for reading. May God bless you richly as you continue to seek the TRUTH of the WHOLE word of Almighty God. Below are some other verses that are used to try and support the doctrine of the trinity and the deity of Jesus. There may be other verses which you may be having trouble seeing any other way that what you were dogmatically taught, but I assure you that each and every verse used by those who teach the doctrine of the trinity does indeed have a different meaning that does NOT CONTRADICT any other part of God's word. Your brother in our Lord Jesus Christ, Mark. RETURN TO
HOMEPAGE
Verses used to try and support the doctrine of the trinity. Genesis 1:26--- Let us make man in our image. Genesis 19:24--- YHWH rained down fire... from YHWH. Isaiah 6:3--- Holy, Holy, Holy. Isaiah 7:14--- Call his name Immanuel (meaning God with us) Isaiah 9:6--- Mighty God, Everlasting Father. Isaiah 48:16--- The Lord and his Spirit has sent me (trinity) Micah 5:2--- From everlasting. Zechariah 12:10--- Look upon me whom they have pierced. Matthew 1:23--- Emmanuel, being interpreted God with us. Matthew 28:19---In the name of the Father, Son, & Holy Spirit. John 1:1--- And the Word was God. John 2:19-22--- Jesus raised himself from the dead. John 5:18--- Making himself equal with God. John 8:24--- If you do not believe I am [he], you shall die... John 8:58--- Before Abraham was, I am. John 10:30--- I and my Father are one. John 14:19--- He who has seen me has seen the Father. John 20:28--- My Lord and my God. Acts 20:28--- He has purchased with his own blood. Romans 9:5--- Christ came...God blessed forever. Ephesians 3:9-11---DID JESUS CREATE ALL THINGS? Philippians 2:6---Thought it not robbery to be equal with God. 1 Timothy 3:16--- God was manifest in the flesh. Titus 2:13--- Looking for... our great God and Savior Jesus... TITUS 3:2 God our Savior toward man APPEARED Hebrews 1:8--- Your throne O' God. 1 John 5:7--- And these three are one. 1 John 5:20--- Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God... 2 Peter 2:1--- God and our Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 3:18--- Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (Isaiah 43:11) Revelation 1:8--- I am Alpha and Omega...the Almighty. Revelation 1:17--- First and the Last (Isaiah 44:6) Revelation 17:14--- WHO IS THE KING OF KINGS
http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009/10/isa-4816.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1461121/posts --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Psalm 136:1-9, MADE BY HIM “O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever. 2 O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever. 3 O give thanks to the Lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever. 4 To him who alone doeth great wonders : for his mercy endureth for ever. 5 To him that by wisdom made the heavens: for his mercy endureth for ever. 6 To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever. 7 To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever: 8 The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever: 9 The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.”
Isaiah chapter 41 through chapter 44 which prophesies of Almighty God doing a NEW THING.
John 1:1-4, MADE BY HIM “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made . 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.” John 1:10, MADE BY HIM “He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.” Romans 1:16-22 creation by God Mark 13:19,20 Jesus is speaking and calls God as the one who CREATED all of creation. “For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be . 20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved : but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen , he hath shortened the days.” *Ephesians 3:9-11 God created all things BY Jesus Christ “And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:” The Greek word “DIA” (#1223) that is translated as BY also means through, for, and for the sake of. The root meaning is the CHANNEL of an act. The reason for why the act was made. The means of, The ground or reason by which something is done or not done, By reason of, on account of, because of for this reason. John 12:11 BECAUSE that BY REASON OF... Romans 8:20 BY REASON OF... Hebrews 5:3 BY REASON HEREOF... Hebrews 5:14 BY REASON OF... 2 Peter 2:2 BY REASON OF..... Matthew 13:13 BECAUSE OF... Matthew 13:58 BECAUSE OF... John 12:30 BECAUSE OF for your sakes... Romans 8:10 BECAUSE OF sin... Colossians 1:5 BECAUSE OF the hope...(diff translation) Colossians 1:9 FOR THIS REASON also...(diff translation) Colossians 3:6 For it is because of...(diff translation) Ephesians 1:15 For THIS REASON...(diff translation) Ephesians 2:4 BECAUSE OF...(diff translation) Ephesians 4:18 BECAUSE OF... Ephesians 5:6 BECAUSE OF...
Colossians 1:12-19 Created BY him and FOR him “Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him (or for IN him, as in, a fixed moment in time for the sake of ) were all things created , that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist . 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence . 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;”
For BY him in the Greek is “hoti”(#3754), which means for, that. “en” (#1722), which means IN, by “auto” (#846) him same self same. The Greek word “DIA or DI” (#1223) that is translated as “BY” also mean through and for, and for the sake of. The root meaning is the CHANNEL of an act. The Greek word “EIS” (#1519) that is translated “for” him also means into indicating the point reached or entered, to the end, to the intent, for the purpose of. Revelation 1:8-11 The Lord God ALMIGHTY who sit upon the throne created ALL things for his pleasure. “And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying , Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was , and is , and is to come . 9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever, 10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying , 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.”
Genesis 1:26--- Let us make man in our image. Genesis 19:24--- YHWH rained down fire... from YHWH. Isaiah 6:3--- Holy, Holy, Holy. Isaiah 7:14--- Call his name Immanuel (meaning God with us) Isaiah 9:6--- Mighty God, Everlasting Father. Isaiah 48:16--- The Lord and his Spirit has sent me (trinity) Micah 5:2--- From everlasting. Zechariah 12:10--- Look upon me whom they have pierced. Matthew 1:23--- Emmanuel, being interpreted God with us. Matthew 28:19---In the name of the Father, Son, & Holy Spirit. John 1:1--- And the Word was God. John 2:19-22--- Jesus raised himself from the dead. John 5:18--- Making himself equal with God. John 8:24--- If you do not believe I am [he], you shall die... John 8:58--- Before Abraham was, I am. John 10:30--- I and my Father are one. John 14:19--- He who has seen me has seen the Father. John 20:28--- My Lord and my God. Acts 20:28--- He has purchased with his own blood. Romans 9:5--- Christ came...God blessed forever. 2 Corinthians 13:14---Trinity Colossians 2:9--- Godhead. Philippians 2:6---Thought it not robbery to be equal with God. 1 Timothy 3:16--- God was manifest in the flesh. Titus 2:13--- Looking for... our great God and Savior Jesus... Hebrews 1:8--- Your throne O' God. 1 John 5:7--- And these three are one. 1 John 5:20--- Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God... 2 Peter 2:1--- God and our Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 3:18--- Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (Isaiah 43:11) Revelation 1:8--- I am Alpha and Omega...the Almighty. Revelation 1:17--- First and the Last (Isaiah 44:6)
Your brother in our Lord Jesus Christ, Mark. AmatterOfTruth.com
http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009/10/phil-26_8991.html
http://judahsdaughter.hubpages.com/hub/God-Let-Us-Make-Man-in-Our-Image
http://www.whoisjesus.com/letus2.html =============================================================================================================================================
EPIC
A JOURNEY THROUGH CHURCH HISTORY
Session 1: A mustard seed. (color mustard yellow) The beginning of the church from around 31AD to 33AD through the first century to 99AD. First persecuted by the Jews, then by the Roman emperor Nero from 64 AD to Pope Clement: his letter to the Corinthians. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Session 2: Persecution Part 1 100AD to 312AD (color dark red) Roman persecution from Nero 64AD through 312AD. Domitian and pagans persecuted the church also. St Ignatius of Bishop of Antioch martyred in AD 115. Tertullian and St Justin Martyr and St Irenaeus. Seven letters of St Ignatius? Heresies from within the church arose. What were some of the heresies? And why were they considered heresies? The word “heresy” means that a believer doubts or completely disagrees with a core teaching of the church as DEFINED by one or more Christian churches or body of believers. It should be distinguished form “apostasy” or a “schism”. Apostasy usually means a TOTAL walking away from God. And a schism usually means a breaking away or slitting from the body or church because of something other than DOCTRINE. Lutheran views as to what is heretical: check out Arminianism http://www.lutheransource.net/FalseDoctrines.htm
Letters of St Ignatius the third bishop of Antioch: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/ignatius.html
Justin Martyr: three main works, first apology second apology, and dialog with Trypho the Jew, but these are not the only preserved writing of Justin the Martyr: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/justin.html
Believers in Jesus Christ were first called the WAY. This was the NAME by which they were PERSECUTED under. Please read the words of Jesus where Jesus says of himself, I am the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE and no man comes unto the Father EXCEPT by ME. All through the Bible there is teaching of the WAY by comparing TWO WAYS, where the one true way LEADS to eternal life and the wrong WAY leads to death and eternal destruction in the lake of fire. Please read Matthew 7:13,14 about the broad and narrow WAYS, TWO ways, but only ONE right way of TRUTH. There is a WAY that SEEMS right to man, but the WAYS thereof is death. So lean NOT to your OWN understanding... Then in Acts we see that those believers in the WAY were sort out and persecuted because they went by name the WAY. Then in Acts we see that it was in Antioch the those in the WAY were first called CHRISTIANS. So now if you called yourself by the NAME Christian then you became guilty of death by the Roman empire, because you were falsely accused of being an ATHIEST. And yes Christians did admit to being ATHIEST, but NOT in the sense of saying as atheists do today that there is NO God whatsoever. Early Christians id not dent that they were atheists in the sense that they did NOT believe in the many false pagan gods as did the Roman empire by law demand to be worshiped as true gods. Nero, Domitian and others heavily killed Christians from 64 Ad to 313 AD. Here is a link to a website that summarizes the persecution of this era: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Books,%20Tracts%20&%20Preaching/Printed%20Books/FBOM/fbom-chap_02.htm
First God chose the Jews to be his people. The God said he would do a NEW THING, which was to bring forth his only begotten Son into the world so that whosoever would believe on him would be saved. Now this was not a NEW THING in that God just suddenly decided one day to CHANGE the WAY that mankind is to be saved, but rather this PLAN of salvation was God WAY from the very beginning even before God ever created mankind upon the new restored earth as recorded in the book of Genesis, the book of beginning. Please read before the foundation of the earth the Lamb was slain. God provided is own sacrifice to reconcile mankind back to himself. Now this gospel or this go news that there is no more need to offer animal sacrifices so that your sins could be covered by could not take away the guilty conscience, but rather now all that is required is that you repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus to have all your past sins washed away and if you commit sin again after all your sins are washed away, then all you need to do is confess them before God and believe that he is faithful and just to forgive you of all your sins and to cleans you from all your unrighteousness. So now salvation is by FAITH and NOT by the works of the law of offering continual sacrifices year after year. So now is a NEW COVENANT that is mark with the sign of FAITH in the shed blood of Jesus and NOT being marked by the CIRCUMSION of the flesh under the OLD covenant given to Abraham. Now this gospel of Jesus Christ was first offered to the JEWS, but then when many if not most of the Jews REJECTED this free gift of salvation to be washed clean of all their past sins and to be made free from the OLD covenant of the law of rituals that were only shadows of the true that was prophesied to come, then God turn to a people who were not his people in order to provoke his people Israel to jealously. Now this does not mean that God turned away completely the Jews, for you see, any Jew can come to God THROUGH his Son Jesus and be accepted of him, but NO MAN can come unto the Father EXCEPT by JESUS the ONLY name under heaven given among men whereby mankind MUST be saved.
Now those in the WAY were first persecuted by the JEWS, because the early church seemed to literally turn the world upside down and many Jews were leaving Judaism to become followers of Jesus or the WAY. The next wave of persecution was by the Roman empire and began primarily with Nero who made it against Roman LAW to be called a CHRISTIAN. But before we get into the persecution of Christians let us try and keep up with what these CHRISTIANS were teaching at the TIME of these particular persecutions. We already discussed a little about the persecution of the Jews was because the followers of Jesus called the WAY taught against the LAW of Moses. Please understand that these early believers did NOT teach against the keeping of the commandments of God, but rather the LAW of Moses pertaining to the ritual servitude of the law. Please read the studies called WORKS OF THE LAW VERSES GOOD WORKS and WE ARE NOT SAVED BY OUR OWN GOOD WORKS for a sound Biblical understanding of what Paul means when he teaching that we as Christians are NOT under the LAW anymore. Then after the New Testament was written the early believers began to have questions as to what some of the New testament writing mean. You see, all of the first apostle were now dead so they could not be asked directly what they meant. Therefore SPECULATION began to arise, and out of this speculation came the teaching of MONARCHIANISM that can be traced back to 100 AD, which is around the time that the last apostle John is said to have died of old age in Ephesus, which is one of the churches that he a pastor over or was a bishop over. The word bishop simply means an overseer or one who over sees the church to help keep it in the WAY following Jesus. Monarchianism stressed that God is a SINGLE BEING and therefore tried to preserve the Old Testament teaching of ONE God, but at the same time tried to teach that now the Godhead was shared as a UNITY between Almighty God the Father and his Son Jesus. Now out of this early church teaching arose TWO main camps so to speak. Some Christians reformed this basic teaching of Monarchianism to say the Jesus was a mere man that was conceived by the Holy Spirit of Almighty God in a miraculous way in the womb of a virgin by the name of Mary that was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit when she accepted the call to become the Mother of the Messiah who was to be given the name Jesus and who would be called the Son of the Highest. This particular belief was called DYNAMIC Monarchianism and the main proponents or teachers of this doctrine were called Theodotians after Theodoret, and the Artemonites, Paul of Samosata, and Algogi. These same beliefs remained throughout the entire history of the church and are still taught today. The other main camp or group of Christians taught was is called today as Modalism, but back then it was called Modalistic Monachianism. Now these believer taught that Almighty God the Father and his Son Jesus were ONE and the SAME BEING and that Jesus was just a manifestation of a different MODE of WORK of the ONE God. In other words, God revealed himself as the father in his WORK of creation, and then God revealed himself as the Son in the WORK of becoming the redeemer of mankind. Modalist or ONENESS believers explain their view as and earthly father can ALSO be a son at the same time, so why cannot God be a Father and a Son at the same time? Again this view of oneness is still taught today among the ONENESS Pentecostals, which are not to be confused with other Pentecostal groups of believers, who teach in the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Anyway these two main views were what the early church writings at this time in history show us as to what was taught by the early church right after the last apostle died. These believers during the year 100 AD to 300 AD also taught MONTANISM, which was the imminent return of Jesus. Now the word imminent does not demand the meaning of an immediate could happen any second type of return that is taught among those who teach a false pre tribulation coming of Jesus so that the church can ESCAPE the time of future great tribulation that many today believe is fast approaching, but rather imminent means it is inevitable and it will happen no matter what your chose to believe. The early church taught about the coming judgment of God to persuade the pagans to believe in the one true and only God and his Son Jesus. There were many other beliefs that arose during this time as well. Mainly the subject that was mostly debated was WHO was Jesus exactly? They wanted to know the relationship between Jesus and Almighty God the Father and more specifically was Jesus a DIVINE being. Some in that day believed the eye witness reports of the apostles that clearly spoke of Jesus as being a MAN, but what they wanted to know was Jesus also a DIVINE being as well? Thus sprang up the teaching that Jesus was a divine being as well a being a human being. But others held to the belief that Jesus was a mere man and taught against Jesus being a divine being in the days of his flesh upon the earth. Now one of these groups who taught against the divinity of Jesus surprisingly came from among those who taught Judaism was to be mixed with Christianity and they were called EBONITES. But there were other groups as well that taught that Jesus was not divine, as in, the human Jesus REMAINED divine when he was born, but rather Jesus became DIVINE at his baptism when the Holy Spirit descended upon him and REMAINED upon him throughout his entire ministry. This is what the DYNAMIC Monachanism taught and then developed the teaching a little later that Jesus became divine when the Holy Spirit descended upon his at his baptism and the Father said this is my Son in who I am well pleased. This teaching became known as ADOPTISM and was widely believed throughout the entire history of the church even to this very day.
It was not until Tertullion that the first mention of the trinity was discussed, which was around 197 AD. to 220 AD. http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/tertullian.html
Pope Clement letter to the Corinthians: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/1clement.html
1Clem 13:4 1Clem
14:1 1Clem 16:1 1Clem 16:2 1Clem 21:4 1Clem 21:5 1Clem 32:3 1Clem 32:4 1Clem 33:1 1Clem 33:2 1Clem 41:3 1Clem 41:4 1Clem 42:1 1Clem 42:2 1Clem 42:3 1Clem 42:4 1Clem 42:5 1Clem 43:1 1Clem 43:2 1Clem 43:3 1Clem 43:4 1Clem 43:5 1Clem 43:6 1Clem 44:1 1Clem 44:2 1Clem 44:3 1Clem 44:4 1Clem 44:5 1Clem 45:1 1Clem 45:2 1Clem 45:3 1Clem 46:4 1Clem 46:5 1Clem 46:6 1Clem 46:7 1Clem 46:9 1Clem 47:1 1Clem 47:2 1Clem 47:3 1Clem 47:4 1Clem 47:5 1Clem 47:6 1Clem 47:7 1Clem 48:1 1Clem 54:2 1Clem 57:2 The author writes because certain factions in Corinth have not given proper respect to the bishops and deacons and have set up new leaders in their place. On the occasion of the epistle, Welborn states (op. cit., p. 1059): Whatever the causes of the conflict in Corinth, money seems to have been involved. Contrasting the former humility of the Corinthians with the ambition which has now given rise to strife, the author states that the Corinthians had once been 'satisfied with the provision (ephodios) of Christ' (2:1). Dionysius of Corinth, in his letter to Soter, observed that it had been the custom of the Roman church from the beginning 'to send contributions (ephodia) to many churchs in every city' (Euseb. Hist. Eccl. 4.23.10). From the Roman point of view of Clement, the younger generation of leaders at Corinth are dissatisfied with the provision for their church. What role did this play in the revolt against the presbyters? Were the established presbyters accused of embezzlement? Did the new leaders seek another contribution, to replace the funds their predecessors stole? Polycarp reports that the presbyter Valens was deposed from office for "avarice" (Ad Phil. 11). The unrest of the 1st and 2d centuries almost always had economic causes; and the agreements which brought strife to an end usually included concrete provisions which served the interests of all parties.
ALL THE EARLY WRITINGS OF THE CHURCH LISTED IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER INCLUDING THE NEW TESTAMENT: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/index.html
Session 3 Part 2 The Persecution of the church. # 1. Who were some of the first Christian APOLOGISTS? First the word “apologists” comes from the Greek word “APOLOGIA” and Paul uses the verb “APOLOGEOMAI”, which is translated as DEFEND or Paul's DEFENSE of his faith in the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ and WHY he believes what he believes. The first early Christian “APOLOGISTS” contended or defended the TRUTH of the GOSPEL as taught by the first apostles that Jesus did indeed come in the FLESH and that Jesus was truly a MAN, a HUMAN being and that Jesus was NOT just some “APPARITION” of a divine Spirit APPEARING as a man as some Christians were FALSELY teaching. One of the very first early church Christian apologist that defended the HUMANITY of Jesus was Tertullian, who fought against the FALSE teachings of Marcion, Gnosticism, and Praxeas who taught patripassianism. Other Anti-Nicean apologist were Ireneas, Athenagoras, Melito of Sardis, Tatian, Justin Martyr, Aristedes, Quadratus, Clement of Alexandria, Dionetus, Theophilus, Hippolytus, Felix, Arnobious, Origen, Lactantius, Eusebius of Caesarea, and the unknown author of the preaching of Peter.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Session #4 Conversion and councils Part 1 Constantius and his son Constantine who was baptized on his death bed in 337AD.
In hoc sign vinces is Latin for In this sign you will conquer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_hoc_signo_vinces http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi_rho http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labarum Constantine stopped the Roman STATE persecution of the Christians with the Edict at Milan. So without the heavy persecution Christians have more time to read and study the scriptures, which leads to many different interpretations of what certain verses mean. An African priest named Arius begins teaching on the humanity of Jesus and his being subject and under the Father's authority and the church at Rome misunderstands his teachings and accuses Arius of being a HERETIC, saying that Arius denies the deity of Jesus. Writing of Arius: http://www.fourthcentury.com/arius-thalia-intro/ http://www.fourthcentury.com/index.php/arius-chart documents of Arius: http://www.fourthcentury.com/index.php/urkunde-chart-opitz The following is a statement of faith that Arius believed. This was in a letter to Constantine where Arius was asking Constantine to be restored to the church: Arius and Euzoïus, to our most reverent and pious lord, Emperor Constantine. (1.) In accord with the command of your devout piety, sovereign lord, we declare our faith, and in writing profess before God that we and our adherents believe as follows: (2.)We believe in one God the Father Almighty, and in the Lord Jesus Christ his Son, who was begotten of him before all ages, God the Word through whom all things were made, both things in heaven and on earth; who descended, and became human, and suffered, and rose again, ascended into heaven, and will again come to judge the living and the dead. (3.)We believe also in the Holy Spirit, and in the resurrection of the flesh, and in the life of the coming age, and in the kingdom of the heavens, and in one catholic church of God, extending from one end of the earth to the other. (4.)This faith we have received from the holy gospels, in which the Lord says to his disciples: “Go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” If we do not so believe and do not truly receive the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, as the whole catholic church and the holy Scriptures teach (in which we believe in every respect), may God judge us both now, and in the coming judgment. (5.) Wherefore we (who have been consecrated to the ministry, and hold the faith and opinions of the church and of the holy Scriptures) encourage your piety, most devout emperor, that we may be reunited to our mother, the church, by your peace-loving and devoted piety, avoiding all superfluous questions and disputes. Then both we and the whole church will be at peace and will offer in common our accustomed prayers for your tranquil reign, and also for your whole family.
The following is the statement of faith of the synod that was against Arius and any one who sided with him: Our faith is as follows: To believe in one God, Father, almighty, incomprehensible, unchangeable and unalterable, administrator and governor of all, just, good, maker of heaven and earth, and all that is in them, the Lord of the Law and the Prophets and the New Testament. (9.) And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son, begotten not from nothing, but from the Father; not made, but a genuine offspring. He was begotten inexpressibly and unspeakably, because only the Father who begot and the Son who was begotten know it, “for no one knows the Father except the Son, or the Son except the Father” [Matt 11:27]. (10.) He always exists and never before did he not exist, for we have been taught from the holy Scriptures that he alone is God’s image. He is not unbegotten, for he is clearly begotten of the Father. This status has not been placed upon him; in fact, it would be godless blasphemy to say so. But the scriptures say that he is the real and truly begotten Son, so we believe him to be unchangeable and unalterable. He has not been begotten or come into being merely by the Father’s will, nor has this status been placed upon him, which would make him appear to be from nothing. But he was begotten as was fitting for him, not at all according to the impermissible idea that he resembles, is of similar nature to, or is associated with any of the things that came into existence through him. (11.) But, because this transcends all thought, conception, and expression, we simply confess that he has been begotten from the unbegotten Father, God the Word, true Light, righteousness, Jesus Christ, Lord of all and Savior. He is the image not of the will or of anything else except the actual being (hypostasis) of the Father. This one, the Son, God the Word, was also born in the flesh from Mary the Mother of God and was made flesh. After suffering and dying, he rose from the dead and was taken into heaven, and he sits at the right hand of the Majesty of the Most High. He is coming to judge the living and the dead. (12.) Just as the holy writings teach us to believe in our Savior, so also they teach us to believe in one Spirit, one catholic church, the resurrection of the dead, and the judgment which will pay back to each man according to what he has done in the flesh, whether good or evil. (13.) We anathematize those who say or think or proclaim that the Son of God is a creation (ktisma); has come into being (genētos), or was made (poiētos), or was not truly begotten; or that there was a time when he did not exist (for we believe that he was and that he is Light); still also those who think he is unchangeable only by his free will [i.e., not according to his essence], as with those who think he did not exist before he was begotten and that he is not unchanging by his nature as the Father is. He has been proclaimed as the Father’s image in every respect, especially in this respect, that he does not change.
Arius write a letter to Eusebius: 1.) To that most beloved man of God, the faithful and orthodox Eusebius, from Arius, unjustly persecuted by father Alexander because of the all-conquering truth which you, Eusebius, also are defending! (2.) Since my father Ammonius is going to Nicomedia, it seemed reasonable and proper to greet you through him, remembering at the same time the innate love and affection which you have for the brothers on account of God and his Christ, because the bishop [Alexander] is severely ravaging and persecuting us and moving against us with every evil. Thus he drives us out of every city like godless men, since we will not agree with his public statements: that there was “always a God, always a Son;” “as soon as the Father, so soon the Son [existed];” “with the Father co-exists the Son unbegotten, ever-begotten, begotten without begetting;” “God neither precedes the Son in aspect or in a moment of time;” “always a God, always a Son, the Son being from God himself.” (3.) Since Eusebius, your brother in Caesarea, and Theodotus, and Paulinus, and Athanasius, and Gregory, and Aetius and all those in the East say that God pre-exists the Son without a beginning, they have been condemned, except for Philogonius and Hellenicus and Macarius, unlearned heretics some of whom say that the Son was “spewed out”, others that he was an “emanation”, still others that he was “jointly unbegotten.” (4.) We are not able to listen to these kinds of impieties, even if the heretics threaten us with ten thousand deaths. But what do we say and think and what have we previously taught and do we presently teach? — that the Son is not unbegotten, nor a part of an unbegotten entity in any way, nor from anything in existence, but that he is subsisting in will and intention before time and before the ages, full <of grace and truth,> God, the only-begotten, unchangeable. (5.) Before he was begotten, or created, or defined, or established, he did not exist. For he was not unbegotten. But we are persecuted because we have said the Son has a beginning but God has no beginning. We are persecuted because of that and for saying he came from non-being. But we said this since he is not a portion of God nor of anything in existence. That is why we are persecuted; you know the rest. I pray that you fare well in the Lord, remembering our tribulations, fellow-Lucianist, truly-called Eusebius [i.e. the pious one].
And Eusebius of Nicomedia in addition wrote thus to Arius:
Since you think properly, pray that everyone will think that way. For it is clear to all that the thing which is made did not exist before it came into being; but rather what came into being has a beginning to its existence.
(1.) A letter of Eusebius of Pamphylia to Euphration, which begins: I confess to my lord by every grace…. And it continues later: For we do not say that the Son is coexisting with the Father, but instead that the Father existed before the Son. For if they coexisted, how could the Father be a father, and the Son be a son? Or how could one indeed be the first, and the other second? And how could one be unbegotten and the other begotten? For the two, if they are equal, likewise exist mutually and are honored equally, one must conclude that either they are both unbegotten or both begotten, as I have said, but it is clear that neither of these is true. For they are neither both unbegotten nor both begotten. For one is indeed the first and best and leads to/precedes the second, both in order and in honor, so that he is the occasion for the second’s existing and for his existing in this particular way. (2.) For the Son of God himself, who quite clearly knows all things, knows that he is different from, less, and inferior to the Father, and with full piety also teaches us this when he says, “The Father who sent me is greater than me” [John 14:28]. (3.) [And it is also written in the same letter:] But he teaches that that one [the Father] is alone true when he says, “that they may know you, the only true God” [John 17:3], not as if one only is God, but that one is the (only) true God, with the very necessary addition of true. For also he himself is Son of God, but not true, as God is. For there is but one true God, the one before whom nothing existed. But if the Son himself is true, it is simply as an image of the true God, and he is God, for [Scripture says] “and the Word was God” [John 1:1], but not as the only true God. (4.) For daring to divide the Word of God and to name the Word as another God, differing in essence and power from the Father, he has departed into as great a blasphemy, as is easily discerned from those very terms he uses. The following is an exact quote from his writings: But surely the image and the one whose image it is are not considered one, but they are two Beings and two Things and two Powers, similarly with other titles [on image of God, see Col 1:15, 2 Cor 4:4]. (5.) He writes as follows, wishing to show the savior as only a man, as the great unspoken mystery unveiled to us by the apostle: For more clearly also the divine Apostle transmits to us the unspoken and mystical theology when he calls and cries out, “There is one God;” then after saying one God he continues to describe another, “One mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” [1 Tim 2:5].
Another letter written to the Bishop Alexander of Alexandria.
(1.) The Priests and Deacons to Our Blessed Father and Bishop, Alexander; greetings in the Lord. (2.) Our faith from our forefathers, which also we learned from you, Blessed Father, is this: We acknowledge One God, alone unbegotten, alone everlasting, alone without beginning, alone true, alone having immortality, alone wise, alone good, alone sovereign, judge, governor, and provider of all, unalterable and unchangeable, just and good, God of the Law and the Prophets and the New Testament; who begat an only-begotten Son before time and the ages, through whom he made both the ages [Heb 1:2] and all that was made; who begot Him not in appearance, but in reality; and that he made him subsist at his own will, unalterable and unchangeable, the perfect creature (ktisma) of God, but not as one of the creatures; offspring, but not as one of the other things begotten; (3.) nor as Valentinus pronounced that the offspring of the Father was an emanation (probolē); nor as the Manicheans taught that the offspring was a one-in-essence-portion (meros homoousion) of the Father; nor as Sabellius, dividing the Monad, speaks of a Son-Father; nor as Hieracas speaks of one torch [lit] from another, or as a lamp divided into two; nor that he who existed before was later generated or created anew into a Son, as you yourself, O blessed father, have often condemned both in church services and in council meetings; but, as we say, he was created at the will of God, before time and before the ages, and came to life and being from the Father, and the glories which coexist in him are from the Father. (4.) For when giving to him [the Son] the inheritance of all things [Heb 1:2], the Father did not deprive himself of what he has without beginning in himself; for he is the source of all things. Thus there are three subsisting realities (hypostaseis). And God, being the cause of all that happens, is absolutely alone without beginning; but the Son, begotten apart from time by the Father, and created (ktistheis) and founded before the ages, was not in existence before his generation, but was begotten apart from time before all things, and he alone came into existence (hypestē) from the Father. For he is neither eternal nor co-eternal nor co-unbegotten with the Father, nor does he have his being together with the Father, as some speak of relations, introducing two unbegotten beginnings. But God is before all things as monad and beginning of all. Therefore he is also before the Son, as we have learned also from your public preaching in the church. (5.) Therefore he thus has his being from God; and glories, and life, and all things have been given over to him; in this way God is his beginning. For he is over him, as his God and being before him. But if the expressions from him [Rom. 11:36] and from the womb [Ps. 109:3 (LXX), 110:3 English] and I came from the Father, and I have come [John 16:28], are understood by some to mean that he is part of him [the Father], one in essence or as an emanation, then the Father is, according to them, compounded and divisible and alterable and material, and, as far as their belief goes, the incorporeal God endures a body.
A letter in defense of the falsely accused Arius:
(1.) Similarly also in his letter to St. Alexander the instructor of the great Athanasius, which begins: I came upon this letter with such anxiety and concern… He clearly is speaking blasphemy when he says the following concerning Arius and his party: (2.) Your letters have misrepresented them [the Arians] as though they were saying that since the Son came into being from nothing (ek tou mē ontos), he must therefore be just like the rest of creation (‘eis tōn pantōn). But they have brought forth their own document, which they have written for you, in which they explain their faith, confessing it with these very words: “The God of the Law and of the Prophets and of the New Testament begat an only begotten son before time began (pro chronōn aiōnōn), through whom he also made the ages (aiōnas) [Heb1:2] and all things, begetting him not in appearance but in reality, causing him to exist by his own will. He is unchanging and unchangeable, God’s perfect creation, but not a creation in the same way like one of God’s other creations.” And so surely indeed their writings speak the truth, since these opinions are certainly held by you also when they confess that the son of God existed before time began, that God also made the ages through him, that he is unchanging, God’s perfect creation, but not like God’s other creations. (3.) But your letter surely misrepresents them as saying that the son is the same as the other created things. They are not saying this! But they clearly draw a distinction, saying that he is, “not like one of the created things.” Take care, then, lest immediately again a pretext be found for arresting them and keeping them from moving about as much as they wish. (4.) Again, you accuse them of saying, “He-who-was begat he-who-was-not”? I would be astonished if someone were able to speak differently. For if there is only one who exists [eternally], it is clear that everything which exists has come into being from him, whatever indeed exists after him. IF it were NOT he alone who exists eternally, BUT the son ALSO exists eternally, how indeed could one who exists beget another who already exists? It would have to follow that there would actually be two who exist eternally. (5.) [So wrote Eusebius to the famous Alexander. But also other letters of his were taken to that holy man, in which were found other various blasphemies, which those of the Arian party defend]
Constantine calls for an empire wide council at Nicaea to settle this controversy; Arianism verses Jesus being ALMIGHTY God. So the First Ecumenical Council of Nicaea met in 325AD. “White”Martyrs were Christians who voluntarily suffered self denial, which later developed into the Christian sect called the Monks, who later started to live in seclusion in Monestaries.
The council produced a negative teaching as well as a positive teaching. What are they?
saint Anthony the Abbot against Arianism. Edict of Milan, which ended the state persecution of Christians and made it LEGAL for Christians to worship in the roman Empire. Constantine Augustus and Licinius Augustus The persecution of Christians ended in 313 when Constantine of the West and Licinius of the East proclaimed the Edict of Milan, which established a policy of religious freedom for all. This is an English translation of the edict.
When I, Constantine Augustus, as well as I, Licinius Augustus, fortunately met near Mediolanurn (Milan), and were considering everything that pertained to the public welfare and security, we thought, among other things which we saw would be for the good of many, those regulations pertaining to the reverence of the Divinity ought certainly to be made first, so that we might grant to the Christians and others full authority to observe that religion which each preferred; whence any Divinity whatsoever in the seat of the heavens may be propitious and kindly disposed to us and all who are placed under our rule. And thus by this wholesome counsel and most upright provision we thought to arrange that no one whatsoever should be denied the opportunity to give his heart to the observance of the Christian religion, of that religion which he should think best for himself, so that the Supreme Deity, to whose worship we freely yield our hearts) may show in all things His usual favor and benevolence. Therefore, your Worship should know that it has pleased us to remove all conditions whatsoever, which were in the rescripts formerly given to you officially, concerning the Christians and now any one of these who wishes to observe Christian religion may do so freely and openly, without molestation. We thought it fit to commend these things most fully to your care that you may know that we have given to those Christians free and unrestricted opportunity of religious worship. When you see that this has been granted to them by us, your Worship will know that we have also conceded to other religions the right of open and free observance of their worship for the sake of the peace of our times, that each one may have the free opportunity to worship as he pleases; this regulation is made we that we may not seem to detract from any dignity or any religion. Moreover, in the case of the Christians especially we esteemed it best to order that if it happens anyone heretofore has bought from our treasury from anyone whatsoever, those places where they were previously accustomed to assemble, concerning which a certain decree had been made and a letter sent to you officially, the same shall be restored to the Christians without payment or any claim of recompense and without any kind of fraud or deception, Those, moreover, who have obtained the same by gift, are likewise to return them at once to the Christians. Besides, both those who have purchased and those who have secured them by gift, are to appeal to the vicar if they seek any recompense from our bounty, that they may be cared for through our clemency. All this property ought to be delivered at once to the community of the Christians through your intercession, and without delay. And since these Christians are known to have possessed not only those places in which they were accustomed to assemble, but also other property, namely the churches, belonging to them as a corporation and not as individuals, all these things which we have included under the above law, you will order to be restored, without any hesitation or controversy at all, to these Christians, that is to say to the corporations and their conventicles: providing, of course, that the above arrangements be followed so that those who return the same without payment, as we have said, may hope for an indemnity from our bounty. In all these circumstances you ought to tender your most efficacious intervention to the community of the Christians, that our command may be carried into effect as quickly as possible, whereby, moreover, through our clemency, public order may be secured. Let this be done so that, as we have said above, Divine favor towards us, which, under the most important circumstances we have already experienced, may, for all time, preserve and prosper our successes together with the good of the state. Moreover, in order that the statement of this decree of our good will may come to the notice of all, this rescript, published by your decree, shall be announced everywhere and brought to the knowledge of all, so that the decree of this, our benevolence, cannot be concealed. From Lactantius, De Mort. Pers., ch. 48. opera, ed. 0. F. Fritzsche, II, p 288 sq. (Bibl Patr. Ecc. Lat. XI). Translated in University of Pennsylvania. Dept. of History: Translations and Reprints from the Original Sources of European history, (Philadelphia, University of Pennsylvania Press [1897?-1907?]), Vol 4:, 1, pp. 28-30. This text is in the public domain.
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DID JESUS PREEXIST?
First of all what is meant by this question, “Did Jesus preexist”? Well this term preexist means different things to different Christian churches or different denominations of the Christian church, who believe that Jesus is the prophesied Messiah. Some church denominations teach that to believe in Jesus preexisting is the very FOUNDATION of true Christianity and that you you do NOT believe that Jesus preexisted, then you are NOT a TRUE Christian. But is this what the word of God truly teaches us that we MUST believe that Jesus preexisted in order to be save. Is not this teaching of Jesus preexisting found in nearly ALL groups of believers, who CLAIM that they are they the ONE and ONLY TRUE church. To the Mormons Jesus preexisted as a created spirit being and that he was the brother of Satan. Now from y understanding the Mormons do believe that Jesus died for their sins like every other Christian, but YET in many other areas they do NOT believe the whole word of Almighty God. For example the Mormons believe that Almighty God was at one time a MAN who progressed to become a God. So then, to preexist to the mind of a Mormon does NOT mean to have ALWAYS existed for all eternity past. And to the Jehovah's Witness the term preexist means that Jesus was a created being just prior to the creation of everything else. In other words, the Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Almighty God Jehovah created Jesus, who then created everything else. Then this spirit being or Michael the archangel called the Word took on the form of a man. They do not believe that Jesus is deity, but rather that Jesus is only the SON OF God. And since they believe that Jesus preexisted as spirit being and that he was the FIRST creation of God, then the preexisting Jesus to them does NOT mean that Jesus has ALWAYS preexisted without a beginning. The Christadelphians believe that Jesus did NOT preexist as a spirit being or as an angel, but rather Jesus PREEXISTED ONLY as the spoken word of Almighty God, which was brought into existence in the fulness of time. They believe that Jesus was created or born as a human being, who was conceived by the spoken word of Almighty God. They believe that Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit at his baptism to receive divine power and then this divine power left when Jesus died on the cross. Christadelpians also believe that man does NOT possess a soul and therefore when a man dies, then the soul itself ALSO dies or ceases to exist. Please read the study “IS THE DOCTRINE OF SOUL SLEEP BIBLICAL?”, which explains the ERROR of Christadelphians on this particular subject of the SOUL of man. Jesus had a SOUL that was not left in hell. And while the SOUL of Jesus was in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights Jesus was CONSCIOUS because the Bible says that he PREACHED to the spirit or the SOULS in prison. Please read the study “WHAT AND WHERE IS PARADISE?” for a deeper understanding that the Old Testament saints are now in heaven awaiting their resurrection to receive their glorified immortal bodies of flesh and bone just like Jesus has now. The Catholic church and many Protestant churches believe that Jesus not only preexisted, but that Jesus ETERNALLY preexisted having NO beginning or ending and therefore was CO ETERNAL with Almighty God the FATHER. Now both the doctrine of the trinity and the doctrine of the deity of Jesus teach that Jesus, as the Son of God, or as God the Son, the second person of the trinity, has always existed and therefore is without beginning nor ending being CO ETERNAL with Almighty God the FATHER and God the Holy Spirit. In other words, the Roman Catholic church and many Protestant churches as well teach the doctrine of the trinity, and the deity of Jesus, which again teaches that God SON has ALWAYS preexisted from all eternity as the second person of the trinity and therefore was WITHOUT beginning the same as God the Father. These two doctrines also teach that Jesus is God INCARNATE which means that Jesus was in and ever shall be fully Almighty God HIMSELF, and that while Jesus was on the earth Jesus was FULLY Almighty God AND fully man at the same time meaning that Jesus has TWO natures, a DIVINE nature and a human nature.
BUT WHICH TEACHING IS THE TRUTH?
So then, the question becomes, Which teaching is the truth? OR are there other teachings as to how Jesus may or may not have preexisted? The following are the different teachings that I have found in my research concerning the verses that seem to teach that Jesus preexisted. #1. Jesus preexisted as the ETERNAL SON, the second person of the trinity, as God the SON. #2. Jesus preexisted as a Spirit being called the Word, who eternally existed with God and was God and therefore had NO beginning nor end. Then God made a human body for the Word to dwell among men and was given the name Jesus, the Son of God and the Son of man being fully Almighty God and fully man at the same time. #3. Jesus preexisted as the Word that was with the God and was a God. And then this Word was SPOKEN forth by Almighty God as PROPHECY to one day be made flesh and dwell among men, given the name Jesus, and called the Son of God and the Son of man whom Almighty God the Father DWELT IN to empower his Son to do the works that he sent him to do. #4. Jesus preexisted as a created ANGEL. Then this Angel of the Lord became flesh to become the Son of God, but was NOT Almighty God himself. Some teach that Lucifer or Satan was the brother of this Archangel of the Lord named Michael. # 5. Jesus always preexisted as the eternal Father himself, who then manifested himself to become the Son of Almighty God the Father where Jesus the Son was FULLY Almighty God and fully man at the same time. This belief is called Modalism or oneness. #6. Now there may be others teaching that fit in one of the categories above, but may vary a little is some way. If you, the reader and seeker of the truth have heard of a different teaching that you personally believe is a more SOUND BIBLICAL teaching than any of the above teachings please let me know and I will include it in this study.
We will now discuss some of the above mentioned teachings of the preexisting Jesus is more detail to see which one is the most sound Biblical teaching according to the WHOLE word of God. Now the widely taught main stream Christian doctrine of the Holy Trinity states that all three persons in ONE God where they are all three called God. There is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, who are said to be the ONE eternal Godhead and therefore they are all three co-eternal and co-equal with each other according to this doctrine of the trinity. For the most part in this particular study in God's word we are only going to focus on teaching of the ETERNAL existence of God the SON to see as to whether or not it is a SOUND BIBLICAL teaching that Jesus as the SON of Almighty God has always preexisted as God SON WITHOUT a BEGINNING. You see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, ALL of the above mentioned Christian Churches cannot be correct, because they all DISAGREE with each other in what they teach. So the purpose of this study is to find out what the word of TRUTH, the Holy Bible, teaches us. And in order to do this we must be thorough to examine all the possibilities. Therefore will will be looking at each belief that I have been made aware of in my research. Please know and understand that the Mormons have their own special Bible as well as two other books that they hold equal to if not greater than the Bible itself. Also know and understand that the Jehovah's Witnesses also have their own Bible that their leaders have translated and as well have the Watch Tower publications that they hold to be sacred to them along with the inspired teaching of the watch tower society. And even the Catholic church holds tradition and church history on the same level as God's word. I say this because I myself will ONLY use the Holy Bible as the source to base the understanding of how Jesus may or may not have preexisted. I may include early church writings as support if they agree with what the WHOLE word of God clearly and plainly teaches. Now in order for the main stream churches of Christianity such as the Roman Catholic church and many Protestant church denominations to continue to support such a belief in a “TRINITY God”, then those church denominations, who teach that Almighty God is a trinity God, must prove without a doubt that Jesus, the Messiah, the SON OF Almighty God the Father, who in their mind is the second God of the trinity, has always existed for all eternity and never had a BEGINNING. Other wise if Jesus cannot be proven without a doubt that he has always existed as the SON OF Almighty God WITHOUT a BEGINNING, then Jesus cannot possibly be proven to be THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God himself. You see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, IF SO BE that the SON OF God did indeed have a BEGINNING, then the SON OF Almighty God could not possibly be THE ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF, but rather a CREATION OF Almighty God. You see, the TRUTH of the matter is that in order for Jesus to be Almighty God himself, then Jesus, the SON OF Almighty God, would need to be an ETERNAL being as well who is WITHOUT a BEGINNING just like God the Father and God the Holy Spirit according to the doctrine of the TRINITY. In other words, in order for these doctrines of the Roman Catholic church that have passed along to some Protestant churches to be found true, then those who teach these doctrines of the trinity and the deity of Jesus must provide absolute sound Biblical proof from that Holy Bible ALONE, the WHOLE word of God, that does NOT contradict any other part of God's word. Here is a list of scriptures that are used by those who teach these doctrines to try and prove that Almighty God is a triune God or a trinity God, being three separate Gods, God the Father, God the SON, and God the Holy Spirit, but yet just ONE God in three persons or three divine beings, where each separate divine being of the trinity has always existed for all eternity without beginning nor ending. The primary or the main verses used to try and prove the literal preexistence of Jesus as God the SON are found in the gospel of John. However there are a few other additional verses used along with the ones found in the book of John as well. Here are all 19 of the main or primary verses used by those who teach that Jesus PREEXISTED: *John 1:1-14,15, 30---The Word was God. *John 3:13---Jesus descended from heaven. *John 6:38---Jesus came down from heaven. +John 6:62---Jesus ascended up to where he was before. *John 8:14---Jesus said I know where I came and where I go. +John 8:23---I am from above, I am not of this world. +John 8:58---Before Abraham was, I am. +John 16:28---I came forth from the Father into the world. +John 17:5---I go away to him that sent me. +John 17:24---You loved me before the foundation of the world. +Philippians 2:6-8---Who was in the form of God. *Galatians 4:4---In the fulness if time God sent forth his Son. *Colossians 1:15-17---Jesus is before all things. +Hebrews 1:10-12---The heavens are the work of your hands. *Hebrews 10:5---You have prepared me a body. *1 Corinthians 10:4---And the Rock was Christ. *1 Corinthians 15:47-The second man is the Lord from heaven. *2 Corinthians 8:9---Though he was rich he became poor. *Revelation 3:14---Jesus is the beginning of creation of God.
Now before we actually begin this study in God's word there are TWO very important questions that must be asked:
QUESTION #1.
Are these “preexistence” statements literal or notional?
By LITERAL preexistence I mean that Jesus LITERALLY preexisted either as the SON OF Almighty God being God the SON or the Jesus LITERALLY preexisted as the Word, where the Word was indeed a LITERAL LIVING SEPARATE BEING who was WITH Almighty God in the beginning. And what I mean by NOTIONAL preexistence sometimes called IDEAL preexistence is that these verses are PROPHECY, in that, Almighty God foretold and promised the COMING of the Messiah. In other words, the written and spoken WORD of God are PROPHECIES that Jesus, the SON OF Almighty God was to one day come into existence as THE CHRIST or the Messiah and this WORD has always in God’s mind or PLAN from all eternity past. But even the WORD itself had a BEGINNING, in that, the WORD needed to be BROUGHT FORTH FROM OUT of Almighty God before God's IMAGES, his thoughts, his plans would be brought forth into a LITERAL EXISTENCE where before they only exists in the MIND and PLAN of God. In other words, NOTIONAL or IDEAL preexistence means that ONLY Almighty God HMSELF has always existed WITHOUT beginning and without and end, and that the Word, and Jesus the SON OF Almighty God BOTH had a BEGINNING where Almighty God is the SOURCE of their ORIGIN or beginning.
QUESTION # 2.
Next it must be determined that if so be you believe that Jesus has LITERALLY preexisted as the WORD, then have these verses, which are CLAIMED to teach a LITERAL preexistence been correctly translated and correctly INTERPRETED? Or do these verse simply just IMPLY a LITERAL preexistence?
What I mean by being correctly INTERPRETED is that whatever INTERPRETATION one concludes for any one verse, then that INTERPRETATION MUST AGREE with the REST of God's word without any contradiction with any other part of the word of TRUTH. In other words, that INTERPRETAION must do more than just IMPLY or SEEM to be saying that Jesus LITERALLY preexisted as the WORD being a LITERALLY SECOND DIVINE Spirit being who was WITH Almighty God and that the WORD himself did NOT have a BEGINNING.
Now in addition to the main or primary verses used to try and prove that Jesus has preexisted as the ETERNAL SON OF Almighty God are as follows: +Genesis 1:26,27 Let us make man in our image +Isaiah 7:14 Immanuel +Daniel 3:25 The fourth like the Son of God http://www.kjvonly.org/doug/kutilek_son_of_god.htm +Daniel 7:13,14 ancient of days???vision of Son of man +Proverbs 8:22 Wisdom = Jesus *Micah 5:2 +Acts 20:28 his own blood +Romans 1:2 which God had promised concerning his son Jesus??? +Ephesians 3:9-11 created BY Jesus Christ +Ephesians 4:8,9 he that ascended descended FIRST +Hebrews 11:3 The worlds were framed by the word of God. 1 Peter 1:10,11 and Jude 9 for those who believe Jesus was Michael the archangel.
Now if so be that you do believe that Jesus preexisted as an ANGEL like the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Mormons, then there are all the ANGEL of the Lord verses, which you can find simply by doing a word search in any Bible concordance. I have not listed these verses in this particular study. I do have other studies that deal with some of these questionable verses like “THE THREE MEN WHO APPEARED TO ABRAHAM?” was one of these men or angels Jesus? But for now let us begin this study in God's word to see what the whole word of God teaches as to HOW Jesus preexisted.
So then, let us begin his study in God;s word by first examining Hebrews 10:5 where Jesus says to Almighty God the Father, you have prepared me a body.
DOES HEBREWS 10:5
“A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME”
PROVE THAT JESUS PREEXISTED? Now when I ask this same question in each of these separate yet connected studies, “Does “ the verse” PROVE that Jesus preexisted?”, what I mean by Jesus preexisting is does that particular verse prove without a doubt that Jesus preexisted as the SON OF Almighty God the Father, being God the SON, the second divine being of the TRINITY God, who has ALWAYS existed WITH God eh Father and therefore is the ETERNAL SON of God WITHOUT ever having a BEGINNING? I am pretty sure from my research that most ALL Christians believe that Jesus PREEXISTED is some way. But the main purpose of this study is to determine HOW the word of TRUTH, the WHOLE word of God teaches us that Jesus PREXISTED?
Here is the first verse with which we will begin this study in God's word to determine HOW Jesus PREEXISTED? Hebrews 10:5
“Wherefore when he comes into the world, he says, Sacrifice and offering you would not, but a body have you prepared me:”
Some Christians dogmatically demand that this verse means without fail that Jesus, as the SON OF Almighty God the Father, has always for all eternity PREEXISTED with Almighty God as the second person or a second divine being WITH God, and this second DIVINE SON OF God descend down from heaven to DWELL in a human body that God PREPARED for his DIVINE SON to be CLOTHED upon with humanity and therefore REMAIN to be FULLY Almighty God and fully a man at the same time. Now other Christians INTERPRET this verse to mean that Almighty God the Father prepared his Son Jesus a HUMAN BODY of flesh BORN of the virgin Mary, and then Jesus entered into the fetus in Mary's womb to be born a human, who was again a God/man being FULLY Almighty God and fully a man at the same time. And yet other Christians say, NO, Jesus did NOT preexist as God's SON, but rather Jesus preexisted as the Word, which was WITH God as a second DIVINE SPIRIT being, whom god sent down from heaven to the earth and then this DIVINE Being called the Word entered into the womb of Mary to be born as the Son of man, but again this DIVINE Word REMAIN to be FULLY ALMIGHTY God while at the same time being fully man as well. So then, in all these INTERPRETAIONS thus far that I have listed above we see one COMMON belief among them all, which is that Jesus LITERALLY preexisted WITH God as a SECOND DIVINE BEING. Some say that this second divine being was the Word. Others say that he was the SON of God. Some say that the Word and the Son had a BEGINNING. Others say that only the SON needed to have a beginning, because the SON is BEGOTTEN of BORN so Jesus could have only preexisted as the SOIRIT being called the Word. Others say NO and that the SON has always existed without ever having a beginning. But no matter HOW Jesus LITERALLY preexisted they ALL agree and make the SAME CLAIM that when he, the Word, or he, the SON OF God, was made flesh and dwelt among men and was given the name Jesus that Jesus REMAINED to be FULLY ALMIGHTY God in the flesh being FULLY ALMIGHTY God and fully a human being at the same time. In other words, ALL these above INTERPRETATIONS dogmatically demand that the BODY that God PREPARED for his Word or for his SON was a HUMAN BODY of FLESH and blood that the Word, or the SON would inhabit or be clothed upon or be made to become and that this is the ONLY way that this verse can be INTERPRETED.
Now AFTER being TAUGHT that this INTERPRETATION is without fail the ONLY possible meaning of his verse for so long, I agree and can see why that this verse SEEMS to be saying that at the TIME Jesus came into the world Almighty God prepared a human body of flesh for an already preexisting DIVINE spirit being whether that SECOND Spirit being is called the Word or where this SECOND Spirit being is called the SON OF Almighty God the Father. But is this truly what the WHOLE word of God teaches us? You see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, upon taking a closer look at the CONTEXT of this verse I myself clearly see that this verse is speaking of Almighty God NOT being PLEASED with the Old Testament animal sacrifices that were offered over and over year after year. In other words, to ME, it is quite clear that the \BODY God prepared for his Son Jesus is his new immortal glorified spiritual body of flesh and bone. And that it was God PLAN all along to ward his only BEGOTTEN SON Jesus with IMMORTALITY only AFTER the WORD, the SPOKEN WORD of God was sent down from heaven with the angel Gabriel to be SPOKEN FORTH to the virgin Mary. And then when Mary AGREED to the SPOKEN WORD of God, then the WORD, as God's SEED, his QUICKENING SPIRIT, was made alive to grow in the womb of Mary to be BORN or BEGOTTEN BY Almighty God the Father who is the SOURCE of the ORIGIN or the BEGINNING of God's SON being brought into existence where the SON had never existed before EXCEPT in the Mind and the PLAN of Almighty God to one day BEGET his only BEGOTTEN SON. So then, in ONE sense God did prepare or make a human body by his spoken WORD, but this is NOT the ONLY BODY that God PREPARED for his SON Jesus. Please keep in mind the CONTEXT of this verse in question, which is speaking of SACRIFICES. Then in the fullness of the time, when Jesus, the only BEGOTTEN SON OF Almighty God, grew to manhood, then God sent down his OWN eternal Holy Spirit to DWELL IN his SON Jesus to EMPOWER his SON to become obedient do all the will of HIS God and Father even to die on the cross for the sins of the whole world. Then after God ANOINTED his Son Jesus with power from on high where Almighty God the Father, the eternal Spirit began to DWELL IN Jesus, the God sent his SON Jesus OUT INTO the world to preach the gospel and do all the will of the Father ending with Jesus being crucified on the cross for the sins of the whole world. And then Almighty God raised his SON from the dead and GAVE to him a NEW GLORIFIED IMMORTAL BODY that he had PREPARED for his SON Jesus even before that foundation of the world.
So then, once again after seeing and understanding the CONTEXT which shows us that the reason Jesus came into the world was to be a PLEASING sacrifice that would END all sacrifices for sin once and for all time, then the BODY that was PRPARED for Jesus was his GLORIFIED SPIRITUAL BODY of flesh and bone that was NOT a corruptible body of flesh as some have falsely concluded that this verse means. In other words, Almighty God NO LONGER ACCEPTED the animal sacrifices, BUT he did ACCEPT the sacrifice that his Son Jesus being the Son of MAN made as an ATONEMENT for the sins of the whole world. And God was so pleased with his beloved Son that he rewarded his Son with IMMORTALITY. To say this another way, the BODY that was PREPARED for Jesus was an IMMORTAL BODY as a REWARD for his SON Jesus doing ALL the will of his God and Father. You see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Greek word that is TRANSLATED as “PREPARED” is “KATARTIZO”, which means TO RESTORE, put in order, to mend, to make complete, to prepare, to ORDAIN, perfect and to make perfect. And the ONLY time this Greek word is TRANSLATED as prepared is in this verse. So all you have to do is be HONEST with yourself to admit that the HUMAN body that some CLAIM to be the body that God prepared for his Son Jesus was NOT a PERFECT body. In other words, the full meaning of this Greek word does NOT fit with a PERISHABLE HUMAN BODY of mere FLESH. But it does indeed fit the human body of Jesus being CHANGED and GLORIFIED to be made PERFECT and IMMORTAL. So again Hebrews 10:5 is speaking of the new GLORIFIED IMMORTAL BODY that God PREPARED or MADE PERFECT for his SON Jesus. Also please take note of the conjunction BUT, which also means YET, as in, yet a future preparing of a BETTER body. A body that is MADE PERFECT just like the Greek word “KATARTIZO” MEANS. In other words, the CONTEXT of this verse teaches us that with the animals sacrifices God was NOT PLEASED. To say this another way, Jesus was simply saying, “ BUT you O God will be or are SATISFIED with me and therefore you have PREPARED ME a BODY, an IMMORTAL body!” Please keep in mind that Jesus ENDURED the cross, BECAUSE of the JOY that was SET BEFORE him. Hebrews 12:1-4
“Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which does so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2. Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who FOR (or BECAUSE OF) the JOY that was SET BEFORE him ENDURED the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3. For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest you be wearied and faint in your minds. 4. You have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.”
Jesus knew that the scriptures spoke of him. He knew that he needed to suffer and die for the sins of the people. And Jesus knew that he would dwell in the house of the Lord forever AFTER going trough the valley of the shadow of death. But yet he SUFFERED being TEMPTED. Jesus knew of the yet COMING JOY being in the house of God forever with his God and Father so he ENDURED the cross of shame to be that PLEASING and ACCEPTABLE sacrifice for sins that would satisfy his God and Father. Please read Isaiah 53:10-12 from the New Living Translation.
“But it was the LORD'S good PLAN to crush him and fill him with grief. Yet when his life is made an offering for sin, he will have a multitude of children, many heirs (Jesus knew that the scriptures spoke of HIM. Jesus knew from the scriptures that he would BECOME the father of everlasting life. Jesus knew that Almighty God the Father would COMMIT this authority to give eternal life to his faithful brethren to be joint heirs with him. Praise the Lord!). He will enjoy a long life (speaking of ETERNAL LIFE. Jesus knew that the scripture promised him eternal life for obeying his God and Father to do all his will. In John 5:26,27 we learn that Jesus is GIVEN IMMORTALITY by his God and Father), and the LORD'S PLAN will prosper in his hands. (Jesus knew the PLAN of his god and Father from the scriptures that spoke of HIM. Jesus knew that this was God's PLAN from before the foundation of the world. To ME this is HOW Jesus PREEXISTED. I myself believe that Jesus preexisted only in the MIND and PLAN of Almighty God to ONE DAY bring FORTH a SON who would be his LAMB to redeem mankind back to himself. And as a REWARD God SET this great JOY before his Son Jesus for becoming obedient to die on the cross for this sins of the whole world. The word of God teaches us that Jesus was TAUGHT morning by morning and that he INCREASE in wisdom, understanding and favor with God as he grew in physical stature.) 11. When he (Almighty God the Father) SEES all that is accomplished by his anguish, he (Almighty God the Father) will be SATISFIED. And because of what he has experienced, my righteous servant will make it possible for many to be counted righteous, for he will bear all their sins.
Philippians 2:8-11 teaches us that Jesus was HIGHLY EXALTED for being that good and faithful servant of God to become obedient unto death on the cross.
“And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9. Wherefore (or for this very REASON) God also has HIGHLY EXALTED him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10. That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11. And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
So I myself conclude that the BODY that was prepared for Jesus was his GLORIFIED IMMORTAL BODY of flesh and bone, and therefore for ME, this verse does NOT prove without fail that Jesus preexisted for all eternity without beginning as God the SON, the second person of the so called trinity. Let us continue this study in God's word by taking a closer look at the next verse is question that SEEMS to be saying or rather is INTERPRETED to IMPLY that Jesus LITERALLY preexisted as the SON of God fro all eternity WITHOUT a BEGINNING.
================================= VERSE #2.
DOES 2 CORINTHIANS 8:9
“THOUGH HE WAS RICH, YET FOR YOUR SAKES HE BECAME POOR”
PROVE THAT JESUS PREEXISTED?
Here is somewhat how the argument goes from those who teach that Jesus preexisted without a beginning as God the SON. Paul says by the Spirit of God that through Jesus Christ was RICH and he gave it all up for our sake and became POOR. Then they dogmatically demand that this verse proves without fail that Jesus preexisted as God the SON without beginning and without end. They say something like, Now if this does not prove that Jesus preexisted in grandeur and splendor with the glory of the Father BEFORE his being born of the virgin Mary, then WHEN was Jesus EVER RICH? Then they drive this point home by saying something like, Certainly Jesus was not rich while he was on the earth! He was born in a borrowed stable, crossed the Sea of Galilee in a borrowed boat, fed the multitudes with borrowed food, rode into Jerusalem on a borrowed beast, ate His last meal in a borrowed room and finally was buried in a borrowed tomb. Jesus once said in Luke 9:58 that,
“The foxes have holes, and the birds of the heaven have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head”.
Now again I agree that in just hearing ONE SIDE of this highly controversial subject this verse does SEEM to be saying that Jesus gave up the riches of heaven to become a poor human being. But is this truly what this verse teaches us in the light of the whole word of God? So then, the questions become what does RICH truly mean, and what does the Bible mean by being POOR? And was Jesus ever rich while he was ON the earth? First let us read 2 Corinthians 8:9 to refresh your memory as to ALL this verse is saying.
“For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was RICH, yet for your sakes he became POOR, that you THROUGH his POVERTY might be RICH.”
This very verse gives us a clue as to what the Bible means by Jesus becoming POOR and how is being POOR is for OUR SAKES. According to this verse the POVERTY of Jesus is what causes US to be RICH. So then, being POOR is definitely NOT speaking of being poor FINANCIALLY, because being poor financially or being rich financially does NOT help one become rich with God. So again, ask yourself the question, How does Jesus being POOR benefit US to make us RICH? Well to me this has NOTHING to do with Jesus being FINACIALLY poor, but has EVERYTHING to do with Jesus being poor in SPIRIT having a CONTRITE heart that is HUMBLE and MEEK that esteems others better than himself. In other words, Jesus made himself poor in SPIRIT by HUMBLING himself during his MINISTRY to preach the gospel to the poor. Now before we get into this study in God's as to what the Bible teaches us about being poor in SPIRIT I would like to bring a few points to your attention about those who argue that Jesus, Mary and Joseph were POOR.
POINT #1. First of ANY verse or argument used AFTER Jesus began his ministry CANNOT be counted as a TRUE argument to try and prove that Jesus was ALREADY POOR and therefore must have given up heaven to become poor, because if so be that Jesus was indeed RICH on earth BEFORE he began his ministry, then it is proven that Jesus did indeed give up all the comforts of earthly riches to BECOME POOR for the sake of the gospel. So then all the so called BORROWED boat to crossed the Sea of Galilee, the borrowed fish and bread to feed the multitudes, the borrowed donkey to ride into Jerusalem, the borrowed room to eat last supper, and no place to lay his head were ALL by CHOICE that Jesus himself made to BECOME poor fro the sake of the gospel and therefore prove NOTHING in the way that Jesus was ALWAYS POOR from birth and that his parents were poor. In other words, the only arguments left for those that dogmatically demand that Jesus Mary and Joseph were “DIRT POOR”, so to speak, is the so called BOROWED stable and the borrowed tomb, which again are only ASSUMED or INTERPRETED to be borrowed.
POINT #2. Please consider the HISTORICAL FACT written in Jewish literature as well as the BIBLICAL linage of both Mary and Joseph in the line of King David.
There is not one woman in the history of the world more known, loved, revered, respected and honored than Mary, the mother of Jesus. Known in her native land as PRICCESS MIRIAM, she is today revered by two great religions; Christianity and Islam. In her native Jewish land, the life and ministry of her Son is the most studied of all historical and religious literature by the Jewish rabbanim of the first century Jewish temple culture. In spite of some defensive aspersions of some Jews concerning her Son, Yehoshua (Jesus), Miriam is held in respect as the ideal mother, who stands by her family even in the most intense moments of social rejection and sorrow. The family of Joseph, the foster father of Jesus, came from a family of royal Davidian princes, all of whom carried the hidden dream of being the Promised One, or the father of the Promised One who would sit on the seat of their ancestral forefather, King David. In contrast, Mary’s family lived in the aura of the majesty and beauty of the temple culture of the Jews in Jerusalem. Joseph’s father flirted with the royalty from Egypt, to Rome, and to Babylon, from Davidian, Maccabean to Herodian, yet he knew that to capture the “hidden” love and devotion of the Jewish population, any ruler had to carry the mantle and the genetic birthright of King David. Miriam (or MARY the mother of Jesus) was a Davidian princess, originally from the non-royal bloodlines of the House of Nathan, the eldest son of Queen Bathsheba, the love of King David’s life. Yet, four hundred years later, the rare fusion of bloodlines occurred when Princess Tamar, the daughter of the Crown Prince Yohanan, was killed in battle with his beloved father, King Josiah, when they sought to hinder the imperial seeking forces of Pharaoh Necho III Wehemibre who was heading north to defend Assyria against the rising imperial power of Nebuchadnezzar’s Babylon. Tamar, a princess of the House of Solomon was betrothed as a child to a Prince Neriah, a prince of the non-royal line of the House of Nathan. He was the 21st in descent from King David. This was a marriage made in heaven, for unbeknown to the Jewish royalty that was crawling with royal Davidian princes, they could never imagine that all would be killed, exiled, executed, assassinated, or died premature deaths until the entire royal bloodline of King Solomon was threatened with extinction. With the LEGAL royal bloodlines of the House of Solomon, now imbedded with the non-royal bloodlines of the House of Nathan, these young princes were recognized as non-royal heirs and thereby not a threat to the Babylonian throne of King Nebuchadnezzar. The God of Israel had a protecting hand over David’s royal bloodline.
POINT #3. Mary and Joseph did indeed have money to PAY for the room at the Inn, BUT there was NO more ROOMS to be rented. It was NOT because Mary and Joseph were POOR that Jesus was born in a stable, but rather there was NO other place AVAILABLE in the inn to rent, so to me the inn keeper rented the stable to Mary and Joseph. Please read Luke 2:1-7.
“And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be TAXED. 2. (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) 3. And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city. 4. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (BECAUSE he was of the house and lineage of David:) 5. To be TAXED with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
7. And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes (this term “swaddling clothe” speaks of TIGHTLY wrapping a baby as mothers do today in swaddling blankets and has NOTHING to do with wrapping Jesus is so called “RAGS” because they were so dirt poor that all they had were rags to keep the baby warm as many of us have been INCORRECTLY taught), and laid him in a manger; BECAUSE there was NO ROOM for them IN the inn.”
Now considering this major world wide event of a census taking or the collecting of TAXES where everyone had to TRAVEL to their home town this would be the busiest and most PROFITABLE time ever for any BUSINESS men such as the INN keeper, who to me undoubtedly CHARGED Mary and Joseph to stay in the stable. What shrewd Jewish business man would GIVE any lodging away for FREE? Keep in mind that this historical event would be liken to the world fair or the Olympics where people come from all over to one place and every hotel is sold out so ANT available space becomes PRIME property to demand a high price. Just MY opinion, but so also is the ASSUMPTION that Mary and Joseph were POOR.
POINT # 4. The wise men brought EXTREMELY VALUABLE GIFTS fit for a KING to the child Jesus. So what happened to all this extreme WEALTH? Please read Matthew 2:1-12.
“Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, 2. Saying, Where is he that is born KING of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. 3. When Herod the king had heard these things, he was TROUBLED, and all Jerusalem WITH him. 4. And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born. 5. And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judea: for thus it is written by the prophet, 6. And you Bethlehem, in the land of Judea, are not the least among the princes of Judea: for out of you shall come a Governor, that shall RULE my people Israel. 7. Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, inquired of them diligently what time the star appeared. 8. And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; (Jesus was most likly approaching the age of two around this time, because the Bible teaches us that Herod had all the male children two years old and younger killed fearing his own throne.) and when you have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also. 9. When they had heard the king, they departed ; and, lo , the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was . 10. When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. 11. And when they were come into the HOUSE, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshiped him: and when they had opened their TREASURES, they presented unto him GIFTS; GOLD, and FRANINCENSE, and MYRRH. 12. And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.”
So then, it has been almost two years now and Mary, Joseph, and the young toddler Jesus are living in a HOUSE. Again living is a HOUSE does not prove without a doubt that Mary and Joseph are RICH, but at the same time it does NOT prove that they are dirt poor either. The main point that I want you to notice is that these wise men from the east brought GIFTS that were befitting TREASURES given to a KING. So the question becomes what happened to all this extreme WEALTH? Some may argue that I am blowing things out of proportion, but considering the ROYAL linage of BOTH Mary and Joseph along with these TREASURES of the wise men opened up and given to the KING of the Jews, then I myself see Jesus, Mary, and Joseph to be quite wealthy.
POINT #5. Joseph took his family to Egypt to stay until the threat of their son being killed had pasted. So the question now becomes HOW did they AFFORD to travel to Egypt for this extended stay IF SO BE they were so wretchedly poor?
Jewish history teaches us the following;
In the days surrounding the birth of Jesus, it was not safe to be recognized or be known as a descendant of the House of David. The Davidian princes were hunted by the Romans, and were despised by the jealous Jewish temple leadership, who were Zadokian cousins presiding as high priests. The ruler of Judea was Herod the Great who at his best, sought to manipulate, or at the least destroy every Zadokian priest that allied himself to Davidian princes. King Herod also targeted every Prince of Israel, who was of the ROYAL House of David, and heirs to the throne of David.
Please continue to read the rest of Matthew chapter 2. Matthew 2:13-23.
“13. And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be you there until I bring you word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him. 14. When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt: 15. And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. 16. Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men. (this verse teaches us that Jesus was most likely around two years old by the time the wise men came to worship the prophesied coming king) 17. Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, 18. In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not. 19. But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, 20. Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life. 21. And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel. 22. But when he heard that Archelaus did reign in Judaea in the room of his father Herod, he was afraid to go thither: notwithstanding, being warned of God in a dream, he turned aside into the parts of Galilee:
My Point is this, what poor family can just pick up and leave at the drop of a hat, so to speak, and stay in a distant land until God told them it was safe to return? Perhaps they used the gifts that the wise men gave the young child Jesus to pay for their travel and long stay in Egypt. Or perhaps Mary and Joseph were indeed RICH considering their ROYAL linage and inherited family WEALTH and they used their own money to fund their refuge in Egypt.
POINT #6. The TOMB was given to Jesus by his great UNCLE, which according to Jewish law or custom was the families responsibility. Also history as well as the Bible teaches us that Joseph of Arimathea ADOPTED Jesus as his son. In other words, the so called BORROWED tomb actually belonged to the FAMILY of Jesus and therefore proves that the FAMILY of Jesus was QUITE WEALTHY after all. Again please consider the historical facts from Jewish literature concerning Joseph or Arimathea who ADOPTED Jesus as his own SON. Here we are reaching into the New Testament history. Here we meet, the “RICH Man of Jerusalem”, the youngest GREAT UNCLE of Jesus, who was a member of the Roman Provincial Council headed by the Roman Procurator Pontius Pilate. He was also a member of the Great Sanhedrin as the Jewish Elder, who represented the hereditarial “Seat of King David” on the council, and a Roman Decurion, a miner of strategic metals for the Roman Empire in the tin, antimony, and lead mines along the Cornwall coast of southwestern Great Britain. Though quickly appearing in the Gospel testimony as the family representative that went to the Procurator Pilate to claim the body of Yehoshua (Jesus), his power and authority all throughout the land of Judea protected the family of Jesus, and the Jewish followers of the Hebrew Nazarene Ecclesia, his last mission was back in Wales and Britain, where he became the “Apostle to the British” and the founder of the British Culdee Ecclesia. Yet, what this RICH man of Jerusalem has been really known best in history was for giving to his nephew the new stone carved “FAMILY” tomb in which to lay the lifeless body of Yehoshua, thereby incurring the wrath of the temple leadership and many members of the Sanhedrin who wanted to dispose of the body like a common criminal, by either burying it in the “potter’s field” or throwing it in the trash heaps outside the gates of the city. From the historical testimony of the New Testament Gospels, this “rich man of Jerusalem” had only an altruistic interest in helping the family of the young Jewish rabbi, Yehoshua ben Yosef (Jesus the son of Joseph). YET, the genealogical testimony depicts a LARGER and MORE dynamic involvement of the ancestors and FAMILY of Jesus. Joseph was NOT a bystander, who offered to help the family of a man, he believed to be the messiah. Joseph was the PATERNAL UNCLE Yehoshua, who had the LEGAL and MORAL RESPONSIBILITY to take the body of any deceased FAMILY MEMBER and give it a proper burial.
Also Joseph of Arimathea being the great uncle became the legal guardian of Jesus. Please read Luke 3:23.
“And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed ) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,”
The phrase “as was supposed” carries the meaning of according to custom, or to do by law. Some Bible scholars say that this means that Joseph of Arimathea adopted Jesus. Plain and simple the FAMILY of Jesus was EXTREMELY WEALTHY. So the TRUTH of the matter Jesus did indeed GIVE UP EARTHLY RICHES to become POOR for our sakes as the Bible clearly and plainly teaches us along with Jewish historical facts.
Now some may still not agree and want to argue that Mary and Joseph were POOR, because they only brought a pair of young But what does the Bible ACTUALLY say. Please read Luke 2:22-24.
“And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; 23. (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;) 24. And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.”
Please notice that the Bible does NOT ACTUALLY tell us WHAT Mary and Joseph offered. In other words it is only ASSUMED that Mary and Joseph offered EITHER two turtledove OR two young pigeons because this is the ONLY PART of the Old Testament law that Luke quoted. There are many times where a writer of the New testament quotes ONLY PART of a verse or passage of scripture, but the INTENT is clear that the writer in truth really wanted to convey to the reader the WHOLE passage of scripture. Now let us read Leviticus 12:7,8 where we understand MORE of what the law actually says, but please keep in mind that this writer is NOT QUOTING the WHOLE passage of scripture EITHER. It is up to YOU the reader to look up and read the ENTIRE passage of scripture if you desire to know ALL that is says.
“And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled , for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the FIRST YEAR for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon, or a turtledove, for a sin offering, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest: 7. Who shall offer it before the LORD, and make an atonement for her; and she shall be cleansed from the issue of her blood. This is the law for her that hath born a male or a female. 8. And if she BE NOT ABLE to BRING a lamb, then she shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons; the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a sin offering: and the priest shall make an atonement for her, and she shall be clean.”
Those who teach that Mary and Joseph are POOR dogmatically demand that without fail that the phrase “And if she BE NOT ABLE to BRING a lamb,”means that Mary and Joseph were POOR, because they ONLY offered two turtledoves or two pigeons and they did NOT offer a LAMB. Again the New Testament simply states ONLY PART of the Old Testament law and ALSO does NOT ACTUALLY say WHAT Mary and Joseph offered. But let us ASSUME that Mary and Joseph did indeed offer ONLY two turtledoves or two young pigeons as many Christians conclude that is what Luke is telling us SIMPLY because he ONLY quotes PART of the Old Testament law. This still does NOT prove without fail that Mary and Joseph were so dirt poor that they could not afford to offer a LAMB to God. You see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, the phrase “And if she BE NOT ABLE to BRING a lamb,” LITERALLY reads as follows:
“and if not she find that hand of her sufficient of flocking”
In other words, God requires a young lamb of the FIRST YEAR. So therefore if she does not find a sufficient lamb of the FIRST YEAR among her flock, THEN she shall offer TWO turtledoves INSTEAD of just ONE turtledove with a lamb, or she shall offer TWO young pigeons INSTEAD of just ONE young pigeon with a lamb. That is to say, this phrase “And if she BE NOT ABLE to BRING a lamb,” has NOTHING whatsoever to Mary and Joseph being POOR. You see, the QUALIFICATION for being POOR is shown to us in Leviticus chapter 14, verse 10 and verses 21 and 22.
“10. And on the eighth day he shall take TWO he lambs without blemish, AND ONE ewe lamb of the FIRST year without blemish, AND three tenth deals of fine flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and one log of oil.... 21. And IF HE BE POOR, and cannot get so much; then he shall take ONE lamb for a trespass offering to be waved, to make an atonement for him, and one tenth deal of fine flour mingled with oil for a meat offering, and a log of oil; 22. AND two turtledoves, OR two young pigeons, such as he is able to get; and the one shall be a sin offering, and the other a burnt offering.”
So then, IF SO BE that Mary and Joseph were truly poor as some Christians CLAIM, then according to Leviticus 14 a POOR person STILL must offer a LAMB of the FIRST year that is without blemish. This is why I myself conclude that Luke ONLY quoted PART of the Old Testament law with the INTENDED meaning of the WHOLE law already being UNDERSTOOD by the Jewish readers. Please keep in mind that the two passages of scripture in the Old Testament are completely different wording in the original Hebrew and therefore it would be quite a stretch to dogmatically demand that the phrase “And if she BE NOT ABLE to BRING a lamb,” mean without fail that Mary and Joseph were so poor that they could not afford to offer a lamb to God seeing that a leper who would truly be far poorer than even the poorest of the poor is still required to offer a LAMB of the FIRST YEAR along with the two turtle doves or the two young pigeons as well. So clearly to ME the New Testament writer INTENDED for the reader to UNDERSTAND that Old Testament law ALREADY so he only quoted PART of the law. Again the Bible simply does not say WHAT Mary and Joseph ACTUALLY offered, but rather Luke just quotes only PART of the ALREADY UNDERSTOOD law of the Old Testament.
Now even if you still do not agree that the family of Jesus was extremely rich you should agree that the Bible APPEARS to lead us to believe that Joseph had DIED sometime after Jesus was lost for three days at the age of twelve. This would explain WHY Joseph of Arimathea ADOPTED Jesus and became the legal guardian of Mary and Jesus. This also means that Jesus took over deceased father's business and was still the legal heir to what ever his earthly inheritance would have been IF SO BE that Jesus did not give it all up to BECOME POOR for our sakes. You see one can be RICH financially whether another person QUALIFIES that person as being RICH in THEIR eyes. So no matter WHAT earthly FINACIAL wealth that Jesus gave up, the mere FACT of just leaving home and his mother behind to go preach the gospel that was STILL being RICH to Jesus. In other words, ANY thing that you personally consider for yourself to be rich even if others do not consider you to be rich and you give it up, then you BECOME POOR in SPIRIT. So the TRUTH of the matter is that even is Jesus could be proven without a doubt that he was the POOREST man on the face of the earth and had absolutely NO FINACIAL WEALTH as some CLAIM, Jesus still became POOR in SPIRIT by giving up what ever he did have that was important to HIM. Some consider their FAMILY their GREATEST TREASURE of ALL. And we know that Jesus left home to travel around and preach the gospel. Jesus BECAME POOR in this way be his OWN CHOICE to have no where to lay his head when he left home to do his Father's WILL. Jesus said in Matthew 5:3 that the poor in SPIRIT shall be blessed and theirs shall be the kingdom of heaven.
“Blessed are the poor in SPIRIT: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”
This is what I personally believe that the verse in question truly means. Jesus was TEACHING us that no matter what we give up for God we become SPIRITUALLY rich because we have willing become poor is SPIRIT. Some times we commit every thing we have and every thing we are to God and say USE me God for your glory, and God lets us keep our earthly treasures, because he knows our hearts and that these earthly goods do NOT OWN us. But at other times even the very poor in man;s eyes are asked to give up what little they do have according to others, but in the eyes of the poor that little is their very LIVING. Jesus said of the widow woman who gave two pennies that she gave MORE that all the rest who gave out of their INCREASE, because she gave what she NEEDED to LIVE. The cross reference in my Bible of Matthew 5:3 referred me back to Isaiah 66:2, which teaches us that what Jesus did ON the earth in the days of his flesh is HOW he made himself POOR in SPIRIT. Isaiah 66:1,2.
“Thus says the LORD (speaking of Almighty God YHWH), The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that you build unto me? And where is the place of my rest? 2. For all those things has mine hand made, and all those things have been, says the LORD: but to THIS MAN will I look, even to HIM that is POOR and of a CONTRITE SPIRIT, and trembles at my word.”
Now to me this does not sound like a MAN coming down from heaven and leaving everything behind to become poor, but rather THIS MAN to whom the Lord will look fears his word and makes himself of a POOR and contrite SPIRIT. Here is another PROPHECY of Jesus being of a POOR and CONTRITE SPIRIT. Psalm 34:1-22.
“I will bless the LORD at all times: his praise shall continually be in my mouth. 2. My soul shall make her boast in the LORD: the HUMBLE shall hear thereof, and be glad. 3. O magnify the LORD with me, and let us exalt his name together. 4. I sought the LORD, and he heard me, and delivered me from all my fears. 5. They looked unto him, and were lightened: and their faces were not ashamed. (speaking of people who truly looked and consider who this HUMBLE man of a POOR and CONTRITE SPIRITE truly was, and then believed on him as the Messiah) 6. THIS POOR MAN cried, and the LORD heard him, and saved him out of all his troubles. 7. The angel of the LORD encamps round about them that FEAR him, and delivers them. 8. O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that TRUSTS in him. (Blessed in the man who is POOR in SPIRIT. So those who TRUST in God and FEAR his word will be made RICH in God and have NO WANT. In other words, Jesus was our EXAMPLE to follow. Jesus became poor in SPIRIT by trusting in God's word.) 9. O fear the LORD, you his saints: for there is NO WANT to them that FEAR him. (this is prophecy of Jesus who is teaching us HOW to be RICH and have NO WANT) 10. The young lions do lack, and suffer hunger: but they that SEEK the LORD shall NOT WANT ANY GOOD THING. 11. Come, you children, hearken unto ME: I (Jesus) will TEACH you the FEAR of the LORD. 12. What man is he that desires life, and loves many days, that he may see good? (Jesus said whatever you FORSAKE for the kingdom of God shall be added to us now in this life and in the world to come.) 13. Keep your tongue from evil, and your lips from speaking guile. (a good man out of the good TREASURE of his HEART shall bring forth good things and and evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart shall bring forth evil things) 14. Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it. 15. The eyes of the LORD are upon the righteous, and his ears are open unto their cry. 16. The face of the LORD is against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth. 17. The righteous cry, and the LORD hears, and delivers them out of all their troubles. 18. The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a BROKEN heart; and saves such as be of a CONTRITE SPIRIT. 19. Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivers him out of them all. 20. He keeps all his bones: NOT ONE of them is BROKEN. (not one of the bones of Jesus was broken, which is the standard practice of one being crucified on a cross. The soldiers broke the legs of the two thieves on the cross, but when they came to Jesus they saw he was already dead so they pierce his side with a spear instead to make sure that Jesus was dead.) 21. Evil shall slay the wicked: and they that hate the righteous shall be desolate. 22. The LORD redeems the soul of his servants: and none of them that TRUST in him shall be desolate.”
The Bibles says that some will TRUST in chariots, and some TRUST in horses, but we shall TRUST in the name of the Lord our God and Jesus was teaches us NOT to TRUST in earthly RICHES, but rather to TRUST in God. This is why Jesus taught us in that whatever FAMILY or houses that we GIVE UP for the sake of the gospel that God will reward us now in this present world a hundred fold and with eternal life in the world to come. Please do not misunderstand what I am saying. I am not teaching that God will make Christians RICH financially, but that God will make us rich SPIRITUALLY. You cannot put a PRICE on the JOY of the Lord and the rewards God gives us for helping others. So in conclusion I myself do NOT see that 1 Corinthians 8:9 proves without fail that Jesus preexisted for all eternity as God the Son the second person of the trinity who never had a BEGINNING. But there are yet more verses to examine more closely so let us continue this study in God word by reading John 8:14 where Jesus says, I know where I came and where I go. Here is the website reference for Jewish history that I used in this study to show that Jesus was of a ROYAL linage destined to be a King: http://www.biblesearchers.com/yahshua/davidian/dynasty2.shtml
==================================== VERSE #3.
DOES JOHN 8:14
“I KNOW WHERE I CAME AND WHERE I GO”
PROVE THAT JESUS PREEXISTED?
John 8:14 where Jesus says,
“Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: FOR (or BECAUSE) I know whence I came, and whither I go; but YOU cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.”
along with other verses like;
John 3:13---Jesus descended from heaven. John 6:38---Jesus came down from heaven. John 6:62---Jesus ascended up to where he was before. John 8:23---I am from above, I am not of this world. John 8:58---Before Abraham was, I am. John 16:28---I came forth from the Father into the world. John 17:5---I go away to him that sent me.
Are used by some church denominations to try and prove that Jesus PREEXISTED for all eternity AS the SON OF Almighty God the Father, the SECOND person of the TRINITY who has always been without beginning and has always been an immortal being and therefore has always been without ending. In other words, these verses in the gospel of John are used by those who teach the doctrine of the TRINITY to try and prove that Jesus has ALWAYS existed AS the so called SECOND person of the trinity, which teaches that God the SON , the second person of the trinity did NOT have a BEGINNING ever, and that Jesus has always been an IMMORTAL being the same as God the Father.
But do these verses truly teach us that Almighty God is a TRINITY and that Jesus has always existed AS God the SON , the SECOND person of the TRINITY, for all eternity WITHOUT ever having a BEGINNING? What does the word of TRUTH, the WHOLE word of God truly teach us? Let us begin this study in God's word by reading this verse in question from an online Greek to English Interlinear LITERAL translation. Here is a link to this online Interlinear Bible: http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/joh8.pdf
And here is just the LITERAL English translation of John 8:14 without the Greek.
“answered Jesus and said to them and if ever I may be witnessing about myself TRUE is the witness of me that I have PERCEIVED (Strong's #1492)? which place (#4159) I CAME (#2064 also translated in this same verse as I AM COMING.) and ? where (#4226) I am under leading (# 5217) you yet not have perceived ? which place I am COMING (#2064) and ? where (#4226) I am under leading (#5217).”
So then, the King James version translates Strong's #1492 as “I KNOW”, but the LITERAL meaning of this Greek word is “I have PERCEIVED” or “I AM PERCEIVING”, which to me makes a BIG difference as to how one may INTERPRET what this verse is TRULY teaching us. For you see, Jesus PERCEIVED by the revelation and teaching of the Holy Spirit that the scriptures spoke of HIM. Now the question becomes WHAT was Jesus PERCEIVING in this particular verse? Let us take a closer look at the next word and you will get a clearer understanding of what this verse truly means. The next Greek word is “pothen” that is translated as “whence” and means “where” in the King James version. But this Greek word “pothen” is translated as “what place” in the LITERAL translation, and is Strong's #4159, which means ORIGIN, as in, Jesus is perceiving or has perceived his ORIGIN from where he IS COMING or his ORIGIN from where he HAS COME. This word also means what place, state, SOURCE or CAUSE that Jesus is PERCEIVING is from his God and Father in heaven. Let us read the CONTEXT now and you will see that Jesus is being TAUGHT basically moment by moment of the Father as what to do and say. In other words, Jesus is giving all the glory to his God and Father by saying that he is PERCEIVING that the ORIGIN of the WORKS he is doing are FROM ABOVE from Almighty God the Father. Please read John 8:1-32.
“Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. 2. And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and TAUGHT them. 3. And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4. They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what say you? 6. This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. (so then the context of John 8:14 is centered in Jesus being TESTED by the Scribes and Pharisees to see if God is truly with Jesus) But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. (now no one really knows for sure what Jesus wrote on the ground, but is does APPEAR the Jesus was HEARING something fro his God and Father as HOW he was going to answers those seeking to trap Jesus in his words.) 7. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. (now this second time that Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground does indeed APPEAR that Jesus PERCEIVED a word of knowledge from the Father within him as to the sins of those who were trying to trap Jesus with his words and what Jesus wrote on the ground MAY have been a secret sin of each of those seeking to accuse him) 9. And they which HEARD it (in other words, Jesus MAY have been writing on the ground something that was not really readable by those standing around, but each time he wrote something on the ground one of his would be accusers were CONVICTED by what they HEARD in their OWN conscience or mind, which was the Holy Spirit telling them that Jesus PERCEIVED their secret sin and he was writing it down for all to see. Or it may be that Jesus also spoke out what he wrote. All we know from sure is that they HEARD what Jesus wrote on the ground), being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those your accusers? Has no man condemned you? 11. She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn you: go, and sin no more. 12. Then spoke Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that follows me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. (so right after the scribes and Pharisees who were convicted of their sins went out of the temple some of the other Pharisees started to find fault with what Jesus was saying) 13. The Pharisees therefore said unto him, You bear record of yourself; your record is not true. (Then Jesus answers in response to this accusation the following) 14. Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: FOR (or BECAUSE) I know (or I am PERCEIVING) whence I came (or the ORIGIN or SOURCE I came), and whither I go; but YOU cannot tell whence I come (or you cannot tell the SOURCE of the ORIGIN of me by the WORKS that I do), and whither I go. (In other words, in the LIGHT of what we just learned that the LITERAL meanings of these words Jesus spoke, Jesus is literally saying, if I bear witness of myself, then my witness is true, BECAUSE I am PERCEIVING that the SOURCE of what I am HEARLING and obeying to do is from my God and Father from heaven above, but yet you have no clue of how I knew what to write on the ground or why I say what I say. You are NOT perceiving that Almighty God is showing me these things and that God in me is the one doing the works you see me do.) 15. You judge after the flesh; I judge no man. 16. And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: FOR (or BECAUSE) I am NOT ALONE, but I and the Father that sent me. 17. It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. 18. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me bears witness of me.(makes TWO) 19. Then said they unto him, Where is your Father? Jesus answered, You neither know me, nor my Father: if you had known me, you should have known my Father also. (In other words, they were not UNDERSTANDING what Jesus was teaching them that Almighty God the Father who DWELT IN him was the SOURCE or the ORIGIN of what Jesus was teaching, saying, and doing) 20. These words spoke Jesus in the treasury, as he TAUGHT in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come. 21. Then said Jesus AGAIN unto them (in other words, Jesus was saying to them, let me explain this another way to you), I go my way, and you shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, you cannot come. 22. Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he said, Whither I go, you cannot come. (What Jesus was saying to these Jews is the same thing Jesus said to Peter and his disciples in John chapter 13 and 14. Jesus said you cannot follow me NOW, but AFTERWARD you shall be able to FOLLOW me. Jesus was speaking of living without sin and doing the WORKS that Jesus was doing, because Jesus had not yet went to the cross to die for their and our sins so that the eternal Spirit could DWELL IN US to empower US to do the works of Jesus and live without sin. Please read the studies “THE POWER AND THE AUTHORITY OF THE BELIEVER!” and “HOW YOU CAN LIVE YOUR LIFE WITHOUT SIN!”) 23. And he said unto them, You are from beneath; I am from ABOVE: you are of this world; I am not of this world. (This verse simply means that some of these Jews were listening to the WRONG VOICE. Jesus was saying to them you are being lead by the god of this world system, but I am listening to the voice from ABOVE who is not influence by the god of this world system. The context of this verse is about SIN and NOT being able to overcome sin in our OWN strength. This verse does NOT mean that Jesus descended down from heaven ABOVE, because he teaches US that we too must be born form ABOVE. See John 3:3 from the Young's LITERAL Translation, “Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from ABOVE, he is not able to see the reign of God;'”) 24. I said therefore unto you, that you shall die in your sins: FOR (or BECAUSE) if you believe not that I am he ( or IF you do NOT believe that Jesus is the chosen anointed one that was prophesied to come to be the savior of the world, who was sent by Almighty God himself, then), you shall die in your SINS. 25. Then said they unto him, Who are you? And Jesus said unto them, Even the SAME that I said unto you from the BEGINNING. (at the very beginning of the ministry of Jesus he told them that Almighty God has ANOINTED him to preach the gospel or deliverance. And in this entire passage of scripture Jesus is saying that it is the FATHER who DWELLS IN him that is the one who is doing the WORKS that they are seeing Jesus do. So Jesus is simply saying that he is PERCEIVING that the SOURCE or the ORIGIN or from what place this voice is from as to what he is HEARING is from above from his God and Father who sent him from the very beginning of his ministry.) 26. I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I SPEAK to the world those things which I have HEARD of HIM. 27. They understood not that he spoke to them of the Father. 28. Then said Jesus unto them, When you have lifted up the Son of man, then shall you know that I am he, and that I do NOTHING OF MYSELF; but as my Father has TAUGHT me, I speak these things. (in other words, Jesus has PERCEIVED that the voice he has been hearing within him and perhaps audibly as well is the voice of his God and Father TEACHING him what to do and say) 29 And he (Almighty God the Father) that sent me is WITH me: the Father has NOT left me alone; FOR (or BECAUSE) I do always those things that please him. (in other words, the ETERNAL Holy Spirit, Almighty God the Father HIMSELF, is DWELLING IN his SON Jesus teaching him what to do and say step by step all along the way and Jesus is simply OBEYING what he HEARS or see the Father saying or doing.) 30. As he spoke these words, many believed on him. (now some of the Jews are starting to understand that Jesus is TEACHING them that Almighty God the Father is WITH Jesus and this is WHY Jesus knew what to write on the ground and how to answer these Pharisees who were NOT there to learn, but where there only to try and trap Jesus with his words.) 31. Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, IF you CONTINUE in my word, then are you my disciples indeed; 32. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
So then, in John 8:14 Jesus is not saying that he LITERALLY descended or came down out of heaven as a spirit being called the Word to become a human being, but rather Jesus was saying that he was PERCEIVING that the SOURCE of the ORIGIN of what he was hearing within himself was his God and Father, the Almighty. Jesus PERCEIVED that the scriptures spoke of HIM. Please read John 5:36-47.
“But I have greater witness than that of John: FOR (or BECAUSE) the WORKS which the Father has given me to finish, the same WORKS that I DO, bear WITNESS of me, THAT (or PROVE THAT) the Father has SENT me. 37. And the Father HIMSELF, which has SENT me, has borne WITNESS of me. You have neither HEARD his VOICE at any time, nor seen his shape. (Jesus was saying the WORKS you see me do are the Father bearing WITNESS that he has SENT me to show to you the one true and only Almighty God and to teach you about what you must do to be saved and receive eternal life in the world to come. Jesus was saying I hear his VOICE but you are NOT hearing his VOICE, nor are you PERCEIVING that these WORKS are his OUTWARD form or appearance of who the Father truly is. The word shape here is the same Greek word used in 1 Thessalonians 5:22 for the APPEARANCE of evil, which is speaking of the evil WORKS that men were doing and shall do, from which we are to abstain.) 38. And you have not his word abiding in you: FOR (or BECAUSE) whom he has SENT, him you believe not. 39. Search the scriptures; for in them you think you have eternal life: and they are they which testify OF ME. 40. And you will not come to me, that you might have life. 41, I receive not honor from men. 42. But I know you, that you have not the love of God in you. 43. I am come in MY Father's NAME, and you receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him you will receive. (I believe that this verse is speaking of the linage of Ishmael who did not believe Jesus by did indeed believe Muhammad to follow his teachings of Islam) 44. How can you believe, which receive honor one of another, and seek not the honor that comes from God only? 45. Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuses you, even Moses, in whom you trust. 46. For had you believed Moses, you would have believed me: FOR (or BECAUSE) he wrote of ME.
Then we read in John 8:42 where Jesus proceeded forth from Almighty God the Father and clearly teaches us that Jesus did NOT come of HIMSELF, but rather it was the Father who SENT him to preach the gospel according to Luke 4:18 through the ANOINTING of the Holy Spirit within him. John 8:41-47.
“You do the DEEDS (or the WORKS) of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, you would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I OF MYSELF, but he SENT me. (now those who teach that doctrine of the trinity claim that Jesus by his OWN FREE WILL of HIMSELF came down to the earth to die for the sins of the world, but this verse teaches us just the opposite that Jesus did NOT come of HIMSELF, but rather that Jesus was SENT by his God and Father.) 43. Why do you not understand my speech? Even because you cannot hear my word. 44. You are OF your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45. And because I tell you the truth, you believe me not. 46. Which of you convinces me of SIN? (Again Jesus is saying in different words that he is following and obey his Father from ABOVE, I am from ABOVE and the WORKS I do PROVE it. Which of you can find SIN in me? None of you because he who is OF God UNDERSTANDS and OBEY God.) And if I say the truth, why do you not believe me? 47. He that is OF God hears God's words: you therefore hear them not, because you are not of God (but you are OF you father the devil, because you are OBEYING and following the lies of the devil).”
Now of course this does not mean that the devil was LITERALLY the father who BIRTHED or BEGOT these Jews, but rather that they were follow the wrong VOICE from BENEATH. So the one meaning of Jesus being OF God is that Jesus followed and obeyed the VOICE of his God and Father. But this word OF God in the light of other verses in the Bible does indeed mean that Jesus was LITERALLY BORN of BEGOTTEN OF Almighty God the Father. There is NO Doubt the Jesus CAME FROM God, was OF God, CAME OUT FROM God, had his ORIGIN from God, but NONE of these verses like John chapter 8 verses 14 and 23 are teaching that Jesus descended down out of heaven above as God the SON having ALWAYS existed WITHOUT BEGINNING and being CO EQUAL with Almighty God. But rather Jesus PERCEIVED that the scriptures spoke of HIM and that Jesus was listening to and obeying the VOICE that was from ABOVE. Please read James 3:14-17, which teaches us that we must do the same thing that Jesus gave us as an example to follow.
“But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. 15. This wisdom descends NOT from ABOVE, but is EARTHLY, sensual, devilish. (this is what Jesus is saying when he said in John 8:23 “ And he said unto them, You are from beneath; I am from ABOVE: you are of this world; I am NOT of this world” You see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, Jesus was simply saying that he was obeying the voice of his God and Father who was from ABOVE and NOT of this present devilish world, and that those who were obey the voice of Satan the devil are of THIS present selfish, sensual, earthly, devilish world.) 16. For (or because) where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. 17. But the wisdom that is FROM ABOVE is first pure , then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, WITHOUT partiality, and WITHOUT hypocrisy.”
Can you not see my dear brothers and sister in our Lord Jesus Christ that ALL these verses that SEEM to be saying that Jesus descended down out of heaven above to come into the world and therefore Jesus is not of this world are actually and truly saying that Jesus loved NOT the things of this present world, which is presently being ruled by the god of this present world, Satan, the Devil. Please read 1 John 2:15-17.
“Love NOT the world, neither the THINGS that are IN the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is NOT in him. 16. For ALL that is IN the world, the LUST of the flesh, and the LUST of the eyes, and the PRIDE of life, is NOT of the Father, but IS OF the world. 17. And the world passes away, AND the LUST thereof (in other words, ALL of the things of the god of this present world shall pass away): but he that does the will of God abides for ever.”
Again, this is what Jesus meant when he said you are of THIS WORLD, but he was NOT of this world. In other words, Jesus LOVED the THINGS of his God and Father that is from ABOVE. We can SAY that we love God, but if our DEEDS do NOT show it, then we are lying against the TRUTH. Jesus said that his kingdom was NOT OF THIS WORLD, but yet WE are IN the kingdom of God right now being IN THIS PRESENT WORLD. You see, while we are LITERALLY present IN this present world we as Christians are NO LONGER OF THIS WORLD, because we have been translated into the kingdom of God's dear Son. So then, in TRUTH we can be seated in heaven places while we are still presently ON the EARTH. And in the SAME WAY Jesus being from ABOVE and NOT of this world does NOT dogmatically demand that Jesus LITERALLY as a spirit being called the Word actually descended down out of heaven above down to the earth to be made a human being. Let us continue this study in God's word by taking a closer look at the next verse in question, John 3:13 which SEEMS to be saying that Jesus came down from heaven.
================================= VERSE #4.
DOES JOHN 3:13
“JESUS CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN”
PROVE THAT JESUS PREEXISTED?
Perhaps the three most convincing verses that seem to be saying without a doubt that Jesus descended DOWN FROM and and then ASCENDED BACK UP to where he was BEFORE is John 3:13, John 6:38, and John 6:62. But as I have said many times that ANY verse when taken OUT of CONTEXT and viewed ALONE and APART from the REST of god's word may SEEM to be saying something that it is NOT TRULY saying. Let us begin this study in God word by first reading all three of these verses OUT of CONTEXT.
John 3:13
“And no man has ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN, but he that CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”
John 6:38
“For I came DOWN FROM HEAVEN, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.”
John 6:62
“What and if you shall see the Son of man ASCEND UP WHERE HE WAS BEFORE?”
Now when one reads these verses alone and apart from the whole word of God and is dogmatically taught that these verses mean without fail that Jesus has PREEXISTED for all eternity without beginning so therefore Jesus IS THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF, then I can see how one could believe this man made doctrine. But when OTHER verses are closely considered and one sees without fail that Jesus is NOT Almighty God HIMSELF and that Jesus CAME OUT FROM Almighty God, then CONFUSION sets in. Sometimes this confusion rises even to the point where some Christians begin to doubt that the Bible is the word of God, because they know that God is NOT the author of confusion and that his word does NOT CONTRADICT itself, but yet to them the Bible does SEEM to contradict itself BECAUSE of what they have been dogmatically TAUGHT that these verses mean without fail that Almighty God is a TRINITY and that Jesus has always eternally existed as God the SON the second person of the trinity.
So then, the purpose of this study is to answer the question as to whether or not these verses teach without a doubt that Jesus PREEXISTED as the SON OF Almighty God for all eternity being God the SON, the second person of the trinity? For you see the MAIN reason as to WHY this doctrine even exists is to TRY and prove that Jesus IS THE ALMIGHTY God HISELF and therefore prove Jesus is DIVINE or DEITY. Well to ME, the mere fact that Jesus CAME OUT FROM the Father along with the clear plain teaching in God's word that Jesus was highly exalted to become a God under his God and Father BY his God and Father is proof enough for ME that Jesus is deity. The fact that Jesus came from God, and that Jesus came out from God and that he was SENT by God is proof enough for ME that Jesus came from THE DIVINE nature of ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF. The fact that Jesus had a miraculous birth is proof enough for ME that Jesus was not just any ordinary human being. So the QUESTION becomes WHY is it so important for Satan to keep this man made doctrine of the trinity and the deity of Jesus which INNCORECTLY teaches that Jesus IS FULLY THE ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF and fully a human being at the SAME time? You see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, when you come to understand that Satan does NOT want YOU to KNOW that the SAME eternal Holy Spirit who DWELT IN his Son Jesus to EMPOWER his Son to over come sin and do the WORKS that he sent his Son to do NOW DWELLS IN YOU to EMPOWER YOU to do the SAME WORKS that Jesus did, then you will understand why Satan wants as many Christians as he can to be DECEIVED into believing these man made doctrines that took many centuries to be developed and forced to be accepted for FEAR of being excommunicated from the church, persecuted, and even martyred for rejecting these false teachings, BECAUSE these false doctrine HIDE the TRUTH of the ANOINTING of Jesus with the INDWELLING of the Holy Spirit to EMPOWER him to do the works that his God and Father sent his SON to do. With that being said let us now read John 3:13 being LEFT IN the CONTEXT of where it is found.
“Jesus answered and said unto him, Are you a master of Israel, and know not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know , and testify that we have seen ; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe , if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no MAN has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, EVEN the Son of MAN which is IN heaven. (please keep in mind that John is writing this RECORD of PAST events concerning Jesus where he is speaking what has ALREADY happened in the future tense as IF Jesus was prophesying of his death, resurrection, ASCENDING into heaven and THEN DESCENDING BACK to the earth for forty days BEFORE Jesus as the Son of MAN Ascended into heaven a SECOND time where the Son of MAN is IN heaven at this present time awaiting his second coming. In other words, this verse has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Jesus PREEXISTING as a SPIRIT being up IN heaven WITH Almighty God as the SON OF God being God the SON, the so called second person of the trinity for all eternity and then one day Almighty God SENT his SON, God the SON DOWN to the earth to be INCARNATED to become a human being and yet REMAIN fully ALMIGHTY God at the same time. The CONTEXT is clearly and plainly speaking of Jesus being CRUCIFIED rather than Jesus being SENT FROM heaven as and ALREADY EXISTING SPIRIT being to be transformed into a human being.) 14. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of MAN be lifted up: (in other words, Jesus as the Son of MAN was SENT by his God and Father to DIE on the cross for the SINS of the whole world. And then AFTER Jesus died and was raised from the dead by his God and Father, Jesus ASCENDED into heaven to receive his new glorified IMMORTAL body of flesh and blood. And THEN Jesus CAME DOWN FROM HEAVNEN as the Son of MAN being highly exalted and glorified by his God and Father to BECOME God the SON who is and always will be UNDER his God and Father the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God. This is what the WHOLE word of God truly teaches us.) 15. That whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten SON, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17. For God sent not his SON into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18. He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed IN the NAME of the only begotten SON OF God.”
No where in the entire Bible do I myself ever find that we are commanded or taught that we must believe that Jesus IS THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF in order to be saved. But I do find many verse that clearly teach us to believe that Jesus is the SON OF Almighty God the Father. However, some of you may still be thinking to yourself about what about this and other verses, which say that Jesus DESCENDED FROM HEAVEN? And think to yourself that these verses must surely prove that Jesus preexisted with the Father IN HEAVEN from all eternity as God the SON? Again these verse do SEEM to be saying that Jesus preexisted so they are indeed a good point to raise and therefore these verses should not be brushed under the rug, so to speak. So again I apologize for not clarifying these verses and passages of scripture in my other studies related to WHO IS JESUS? In fact these verses are so convincing to some Christians that I feel we should take even a CLOSER look at them in order to see what these verses are TRULY saying in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of Almighty God.
Now as we CONTINUE to take a CLOSER look at these verses please keep in mind that whatever we CONCLUDE these verses or passages of scripture to mean, then that the conclusion which one draws or INTERPRETS these verse to mean must AGREE with the REST of God's word. In other words, if one dogmatically demands that these verse mean without fail that Jesus must have preexisted with Almighty God from all eternity past as God's SON being God the SON, the second person of the trinity, then this conclusion or interpretation must AGREE with the rest of God's word. And if it does NOT agree with the WHOLE word of God, then it should be rejected as being a FALSE teaching. So then, let us continue this section by taking an even closer look at one of the most widely used verses to try and prove that Jesus preexisted with the Father in heaven, because it plainly states that Jesus came DOWN FROM HEAVEN or DESCEND from heaven down to the earth. Please read again John 3:13, which does indeed plainly state that Jesus CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN. But again WHAT exactly does this statement of fact TRULY MEAN in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of Almighty God.
“And NO MAN has ascended up to heaven, but he that CAME DOWN from heaven, even the Son of MAN which is IN heaven.”
You see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, once again when this verse is kept in the CONTEXT of where it is found you can see that Jesus is speaking to Nicodemus about the yet FUTURE death, resurrection, ascension into heaven to his God and Father and to our God and Father before the Son of man DESCENDED BACK to the EARTH in order to be seen of his disciples for forty days to show himself ALIVE from the dead in a new flesh and bone immortal body that he received from his God and Father the one true and only Almighty God. In other words, this verse does NOT dogmatically mean without fail that Jesus descended from heaven at the time in which he was BORN of a woman. But rather this verse is referring to WHEN Jesus ASCENDED FIRST into heaven and then he DESCENDED BACK to the earth for a short time before he ASCENDED a second time back into heaven to now be IN heaven at the right hand of the Father awaiting his second coming. Those who teach the false doctrine of soul sleep where the dead are dead and no not one righteous believer has ever ascended into heaven to be present with the Lord after they have died also MISINTERPRET this verse found in John 3:13. But in truth NO MAN had ever ascended into heaven BEFORE that TIME in history when Jesus being a MAN ascended into heaven with the souls of the Old Testament saints. In other words, this verse is speaking of WHEN Jesus was a MAN ro a HUMAN BEING, so therefore this verse has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Jesus PREEXISTING in heaven before the Word BECAME or was MADE flesh. Please read the study called “WHAT AND WHERE IS PARADISE” for a deeper understanding of why the doctrine of soul sleep is not a sound Biblical teaching, but for now let us continue with this study in God's word. This phrase “CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN” is used five more times in the Bible and in these five times they are referring to Jesus being the bread of life COME DOWN from heaven. All these other five uses of this phrase “CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN” are found in John 6:38-58. Again the CONTEXT teaches us that Jesus was sent from God to do his Father's will, which was to die on the cross in order to BECOME the BREAD of LIFE so that whosoever will eat of this true bread of life shall live and not perish. Jesus said in John 6:51 that he was the bread of life and that this bread of life was his flesh which he would one day very soon lay down for the sins of the world.
“I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I WILL GIVE is my flesh, which I WILL GIVE for the life of the world.”
Please keep in mind that the gospels and the entire New Testament was written AFTER all these events of Jesus had already taken place. In other words, John was giving his account of what he remembered Jesus doing and teaching. So at times it may SEEM that Jesus CAME DOWN from heaven at his BIRTH. But the truth of the matter is that one of the reasons that Jesus was born into to world to TEACH us of Almighty God the Father. You see in the Bible the word "BREAD" is often used to speak of a "TEACHING". So also please keep in mind that the term or the word “BREAD” is used in scripture to speak of DOCTRINE or TEACHING. Jesus used the term LEAVEN to refer to the FALSE TEACHINGS of the Sadducees and Pharisees. Please read Matthew 16:5-12, which teaches us that BREAD can also mean TEACHING. In other words, it was the TEACHING that Jesus is the ONLY WAY to the Father that CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN. The TEACHING of Jesus brings LIFE. God's word QUICKENS us or makes us alive from being spiritually dead in our sins. Jesus came to SHOW us the Father, to TEACH us who the one true and only Almighty God is by SHOWING us the father's WORKS. Jesus was the EXPRESS IMAGE of his God and Father. The WORKS that people SEEN Jesus doing were actually done BY HIS God and Father who DWELT IN his SON Jesus.
“And when his disciples were come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread. 6. Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. 7. And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no BREAD. 8. Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O you of little faith, why reason you among yourselves, because you have brought no BREAD? 9. Do you not yet UNDERSTAND, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets you took up? 10. Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets you took up? 11. How is it that you do NOT UNDERSTAND that I spake it NOT to you concerning BREAD, that ye should beware of the LEAVEN of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? 12. Then understood they how that he bade them NOT beware of the leaven of BREAD, but of the DOCTRINE of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.”
So again, it was the BREAD of LIFE or more precisely it was the TEACHING that Jesus was the ONE whom the scriptures PROPHESIED would be raised up from among the people to be the savior of the world that came down from heaven. You see, in truth Jesus was teaching the Jews of his yet FUTURE death, resurrection, ascension and his COMING DOWN from heaven only after he was going to be drawn up into heaven to be given IMMORTALITY by his God and Father and would be then that Jesus would COME DOWN from heaven BACK to the earth to show that he had conquered death hell and the grave and was ALIVE forever more and to show that he was indeed the SON of Almighty God. Please read Proverbs 30:4 from the New Century Version.
“Who has GONE UP to heaven and COME BACK DOWN ? Who can hold the wind in his hand? Who can gather up the waters in his coat? Who has set in place the ends of the earth? What is his name or his SON'S name? Tell me, if you know! 5. Every word of God is true. He guards those who come to him for safety. 6. Do not add to his words, or he will correct you and prove you are a liar.”
Please notice that the WHEN that Jesus CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN was only AFTER Jesus had FIRST ASCENDED UP into heaven after he was raised from the dead to be given IMMORTAL life from his God and Father. And then only AFTER Jesus had ascended UP into heaven is WHEN Jesus came BACK DOWN from heaven to show himself ALIVE by many infallible proofs. So then, to use these verses to try and prove that Jesus preexisted with the Father IN heaven as God the SON is to ADD to the word of God and going beyond what the whole word of God truly teaches us. Please read the full version of this study under the two titles “John 3:13-WHEN DID JESUS DESCEND FROM HEAVEN?”, and “JESUS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD!”, which deal with HOW the Word was MADE flesh by being conceived in the womb of the virgin Mary. But for now let us move on to the next verse in question John 6:38 where again this verse SEEMS to be saying that Jesus came down from heaven as an ALREADY preexisting SON of Almighty God to be BORN as the Son of MAN.
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VERSE #5. DOES JOHN 6:38 “FOR I (JESUS) CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN” PROVE THAT JESUS PREEXISTED?
Before we actually get into taking a closer look at this verse I want my readers and seekers of the TRUTH to know that whatever one concludes this verse to mean, then that INTERPRETATION must AGREE with the REST of God's word with absolutely NO CONTRADICTIONS with any other part of the clear, plain, and simple word of Almighty God. Also please keep in mind that the MAIN REASON of WHY some Christians dogmatically demand that verse like John 6:38, John 6:62, and John 3:13 to mean with out fail that Jesus preexisted is to TRY and prove that Jesus has ALWAYS existed without beginning as God the SON with God the Father for all eternity and therefore thus prove that Jesus IS THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God, who became a human being and yet REMAINED FULLY Almighty God while being a man at the same time. To me, the sole REASON that this doctrine of a PREEXISTING Jesus came into being was to try and prove that doctrine of the trinity and the doctrine of the deity of Jesus. In other words, in order to prove that these doctrines are SOUND BIBLICAL teaching then it must be proven that Jesus IS THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God.
So then let us begin this study in God's word by reading the verse in question being left in the ENTIRE context of where it is found. I realize that this is a rather long context, but if you are TRULY desiring to know what this verse is TRULY teaching us, then it is necessary to read the entire context to see the truth straight from the word of God your self rather than me just dogmatically telling you what this verse means and threaten you that if you do not believe exact what I teach then you shall not be saved. Again I caution you to search the word of truth for YOURSELF when you hear teaching that says you MUST believe that teaching in order to be saved or you MUST belong to that particular church in order to be saved. These kind of teachers and churches are not always teaching you the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so search the word of God daily to SEE if what you are being taught is the TRUTH of the WHOLE word of God. Here is John 6:1-71. Again please read the entire context and read the verse by verse explanations that I give throughout this passage of scripture.
“After these things (speaking of the miracles of healing) Jesus went over the sea of Galilee, which is the sea of Tiberias. 2. And a great multitude followed him, because they SAW his miracles which he did on them that were diseased. 3. And Jesus went up into a mountain, and there he sat with his disciples. 4. And the passover, a feast of the Jews, was nigh. 5. When Jesus then lifted up his eyes, and saw a great company come unto him, he said unto Philip, Whence shall we buy bread, that these may eat? 6. And this he said to prove him: for he himself knew what he would do. 7. Philip answered him, Two hundred pennyworth of bread is not sufficient for them, that every one of them may take a little. (in other words, Philip MAY have been saying, Lord we ONLY have two hundred pennyworth to but bread and this would only be enough to fee this many people a tiny bit of bread.) 8. One of his disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter's brother, said unto him, 9. There is a lad here, which has five barley loaves, and two small fishes: but what are they among so many? (in other words, with all the money we have and all the food that can be gathered from among the people will still NOT be enough to feed this many people.) 10. And Jesus said, Make the men sit down. Now there was much grass in the place. So the men sat down, in number about five thousand. 11. And Jesus took the loaves; and when he had given thanks, he distributed to the disciples, and the disciples to them that were set down; and likewise of the fishes as much as they would. (in other words, Jesus OBEY what he either saw in a vision of dream or he heard by the Holy Spirit dwelling in him to take these five barley loafs of BREAD and two SMALL fishes to bless them and give thanks to god for them, and then to by FAITH instruct his disciples to feed the people. Now I myself see this miracle manifesting much like the bottle of oil that never ran dry in the Old Testament. So as each disciple took some bread and fish that basket never seem to go empty no matter how much they kept on taking out to feed the fiev thousand of more people.) 12. When they were filled, he said unto his disciples, Gather up the fragments that REMAIN, that nothing be lost. 13. Therefore they gathered them together, and filled twelve baskets with the fragments of the five barley loaves, which remained over and above unto them that had eaten. (this does not dogmatically mean that the apostle carried with them eleven EMPTY baskets in order to have twelve baskets to hold all the left as some atheist claim to deceive and confuse Christians. The simple solution to this dilemma is that one basket at a time was gathered and then poured out into a pile to keep from littering the country side. They may have taken the left overs to the city dump or fed then to the animals. The Bible simply does not tell us all the details.) 14. Then those men, when they had SEEN the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a TRUTH that PROPHET that should COME INTO the world. (in other words, this multitude of people after SEEING this miracle BELIEVED that Jesus was INDEED that PROPHET which the scriptures foretold or prophesied to COME into the world who would be KING to free the people for their enemies.) 15. When Jesus therefore perceived (or KNEW) that they would come and take him by force, to make him a KING, he departed again into a mountain himself alone. 16. And when even was now come, his disciples went down unto the sea, 17. And entered into a ship, and went over the sea toward Capernaum. And it was now dark, and Jesus was not come to them. 18. And the sea arose by reason of a great wind that blew. 19. So when they had rowed about five and twenty or thirty furlongs, they see Jesus walking on the sea, and drawing nigh unto the ship: and they were afraid. (in the gospel of Matthew the disciples feared that they were seeing a spirit or a ghost walking of the water) 20. But he said unto them, It is I; be not afraid. 21. Then they willingly received him into the ship: and immediately the ship was at the land whither they went. 22. The day following, when the people which stood on the other side of the sea saw that there was none other boat there, save that one where into his disciples were entered, and that Jesus went not with his disciples into the boat, but that his disciples were gone away alone; 23. (Howbeit there came other boats from Tiberias nigh unto the place where they did eat bread, after that the Lord had given thanks:) 24. When the people therefore saw that Jesus was not there, neither his disciples, they also took shipping, and came to Capernaum, seeking for Jesus. 25. And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when came you hither? 26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, You seek me, NOT because you saw the miracles, but because you did EAT of the loaves, and were filled. 27. Labor NOT for the MEAT which perishes, BUT for THAT MEAT (BUT do labor or work for that FOOD, speaking of SPIRITUAL food, which is the WORDS or the TEACHINGS of Jesus, that LIVING BREAD) which endures unto everlasting life, which the Son of MAN shall give unto you: for (or BECAUSE) him has God the Father sealed. (the word sealed here means to ATTEST to or to AUTHENTICATE, to bear WITNESS that Jesus was TRULY sent by Almighty God. In other words, Jesus was saying forget about filling your bellies and CONSIDED these WORKS of healing that you see me do because they TESTIFY that I am the ONE which the scriptures have prophesied to COME into the world. Jesus is saying quite thinking about filling your BELLY and pay ATTENTION to what I am SAYING for I have the WORDS the will produce eternal life in you, if so be that you hear and obey what I TEACH you to DO) 28. Then said they unto him, What shall we DO, that we might work the works of God? 29. Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the WORK of God, that you BELIEVE on him whom he has sent. (In others words, Jesus is saying that what work you need to be doing right now is to BELIEVE what I am TEACHING you because it is Almighty God who has SENT me to preach the gospel of salvation) 30. They said therefore unto him, What SIGN show you then, that we may see, and believe you? What do you work? (in other words, the Jews now want PROOF that Jesus is truly who is saying that he is. They are asking Jesus to given them a SIGN that they may know that God SENT Jesus and that He is speaking WORDS FROM GOD) 31. Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He (where these Jews were speaking of Moses that) gave them BREAD FROM HEAVEN to eat. (in other words, Moses gave us a SIGN so where is YOUR SIGN?) 32. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you NOT that bread from heaven; but my Father gives you the TRUE BREAD FROM HEAVEN. (In other words, Moses did NOT send that manna down from heaven, but is was my Father in heaven who gave your ancestor that manna that they eat and died, but now my Father gives you TRUE BREAD FROM HEAVEN that if you eat you will NOT DIE but shall be given eternal life.) 33. For the BREAD of God is he which comes down from heaven, and gives life unto the world. (the phrase “is he which” is not in the original text. The LITERAL Greek reads, “For the BREAD of THE GOD is the one descending out of the heaven and gives life to the world” The word “BREAD” in the Bible at times is referring to TEACHING or the WORDS of God coming down from heaven to give eternal life to the world so that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES the WORDS of Jesus and that Jesus died for their sins may have eternal life in the world to come if so be that they CONTINUE in the WORDS of Jesus to OBEY them. In other words, Jesus was saying that WHAT he was TEACHING them at that moment in time were coming down out of heaven from God to Jesus t speak forth the WORDS that he was HEARING from his god and Father to speak. Also another meaning of this verse is that Jesus is literally the LIVING WORD of Almighty God that came into existence when Mary AGREED to the SPOKEN WORD of Almighty God spoken to he by the angel Gabriel. Now Jesus is saying that he is that LIVING BREAD that God sent down from heaven. That is to say, Jesus was teaching us that he is the ONE which the WRITTEN WORD of God has prophesied to COME). 34. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us THIS BREAD. 35. And Jesus said unto them, I am the BREAD of LIFE (in other words, are you not hearing and understand what I am saying to you? I am the PROPHESIED WORD of God that was to COME. I am the LIVING WORD. I am the WORD OF THE LIFE that was MADE ALIVE to become a living human being, the Son of MAN. The written and spoken word of God by the prophets said that I would BE and here I am. Jesus is saying, I am THAT WORD that Almighty God sent from heaven to become ALIVE, and I am SENT out into the world to teach you the WORDS of God in order for those who BELIEVE and obey my WORDS will inherit eternal life in the world to come): he that comes to me shall never hunger; and he that believes on me shall never thirst. 36. But I said unto you, That you also have seen me, and believe not.(the LITERAL Greek does not have punctuation and reads as follows, “and I said that unto you and you have seen me and not you are believing” So the emphasis is both SEEING Jesus and BELIEVING that Jesus is the Messiah, the prophesied one that was to come. Remember that Jesus had just told these particular Jews that they were NOT SEEKING him because of the MIRACLES they SAW, but rather they were just seeking more physical FOOD to EAT like they ate the day before when Jesus gave them a free meal of fish and bread. Now Jesus in these following verses is speaking of his FUTURE SECOND coming when Jesus shall descend or come down out of heaven where every EYE shall SEE him, but NOT EVERY eye that SEE his coming shall BELIEVE that he is the MESSIAH.) 37. All that the Father GIVES me shall come to me; and him that comes to me I will in no wise cast out. 38. For I came down from heaven, NOT to do mine own will, but the WILL of him that sent me. 39. And THIS the Father's WILL which has sent me, that of all which he has given me I should lose nothing, but should RAISE it up again at the LAST DAY. 40. And this is the WILL of him that sent me, that every one which SEES the Son, AND BELIEVES on him, may have everlasting life: and I will RAISE him up at the LAST DAY. (the LITERAL Greek is as follows: “ but this, or and this, or this ALSO, or this YET is the will of the one SENDING me that every one that is BEHOLDING the Son AND BELIEVING on him may be having life eternal and I shall be raising him that last day.” You see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, we are not truly and actually GIVEN to Jesus UNTIL that LAST DAY when ONLY the good and faithful servants of God who CONTINUE to believe and ENDURE right up to the very END shall be RAISED from the dead and given the right to eat of the tree of ETERNAL LIFE in the world to come.) 41. The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the BREAD which came down from heaven. 42. And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that he said, I came down from heaven? (in other words, the Jews just repeated the words that Jesus spoke and murmured because they did NOT UNDERSTAND what Jesus was saying to them. In verse 41 it seems to me that they MISUNDERSTOOD that Jesus was saying that he was LITERALLY BREAD that came down from heaven. In other words, these Jews could understand how God would send BREAD out of heaven, but they could not UNDERSTAND what Jesus MEANT by him saying that HE was that BREAD that came down from heaven. So they said in verse 42, HOW is it that Jesus said he came down from heaven? They were still yet WONDERING what Jesus MEANT by these words.) 43. Jesus THEREFORE answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. (in the following verses Jesus EXPLAINS what HE means by the words he spoke in this entire passage of scripture) 44. No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the LAST DAY. (So then, Jesus is speaking about his SECOND coming when he shall RAISE the dead IN CHRIST ONLY. In other words, all OTHERS who SEE Jesus at his SECOND COMING and then RECOGNIZE or ACKNOWLEDGE that he is the MESSIAH shall be saved ALIVE to go into the 1000 year reign of Jesus in their MORTAL bodies to be TAUGHT of the Lord. But ONLY the good and faithful believers in Jesus Christ will be DRAWN up to meet Jesus in the air.) 45. It is written in the prophets, And they SHALL be ALL TAUGHT of God. Every man therefore that has heard, and has LEARNED of the Father, comes unto me. 46. Not that any man has seen (or no man has clearly discerned or perceived with understanding) the Father, save he which is OF God, he has seen (or clearly discerned and truly understands) the Father. 47. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believes on me has everlasting life. 48. I am THAT BREAD of life. (Jesus is NOT LITERALLY saying that he himself is a LITERAL loaf of BREAD that came down from heaven, but rather Jesus is saying that his is the SPOKEN WORD of God that was SENT DOWN from heaven by Almighty God with his angel Gabriel that he SPOKE to the virgin Mary and was MADE LIVING in the womb of Mary to be BORN a HUMAN BEING. The literal Greek is saying, “I am THAT BREAD OF THE LIFE, meaning that Jesus CAME FORTH OUT FROM GOD BY the SPOKEN LIVING WORD OF LIFE, the LIFE GIVER who gave his spoken WORD LIFE.) 49. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50. THIS is the BREAD which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51. I am the LIVING BREAD which came down from heaven: if any man eat of THIS BREAD, he shall live for ever: and the BREAD that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. 52. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? (again the Jews MISUNDERSTOOD Jesus and THOUGHT that Jesus was going to give his LITERAL FLESH to eat. The Roman Catholic church still MISUNDERSTAND this passage of scripture and falsely teach that the BREAD and WINE actually and literally change in SUBSTANCE to the LITERAL FLESH and BLOOD of Jesus. Please read the study “Is the doctrine of TRANSUBSTANTIATION BIBLICAL?”) 53. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54. Whoso eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, has eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55. For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56. He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, dwells in me, and I in him. 57. As the living Father has sent me, and I live BY the Father (every man shall not live by bread ALONE, but BY every WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Jesus came to SPEAK the WORDS of his God and Father in order to bring ETERNAL LIFE to those who BELIEVE and OBEY this BREAD or these LIVING WORDS that came down out of heaven from God the Father): so he that eats me, even he shall live by me. (in other words, Jesus is comparing EATING with LIVING. So ask yourself WHAT die Jesus EAT of his Father that caused him to LIVE of be GIVEN eternal LIFE? The answer is that Jesus lived BY the WORDS of his God and Father and Jesus SPOKE these WORDS that he himself received from the Father teaching us that we shall ALSO be given ETERNAL LIFE in so be that we live BY the WORDS of Jesus.) 58. THIS is THAT BREAD which CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eats of THIS BREAD shall live for ever. (In other words, the THIS BREAD is the TEACHING or the WORDS of Jesus that he himself RECEIVED from his God and LIVING FATHER in heaven. Remember in verse that Jesus said I am the BREAD of THE LIFE that came down from heaven) 59. These THINGS (these matters of UTTERANCE or these WORDS) said he in the synagogue, as he TAUGHT in Capernaum. 60. Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? (SOME of the disciples along with others THOUGHT that Jesus was LITERALLY saying that they must eat HIM in order to be saved. Others realized that Jesus was speaking of DYING, but they could not figure out WHY the MESSIAH should DIE. This was a HARD teaching to UNDERSTAND, but his closest disciples STUCK with Jesus to HEAR him out to explain these HARD sayings. So I encourage YOU my readers and seekers of the TRUTH to read and study all the studies that I have written on this subject of the TRINITY so that you can weigh ALL the evidence BEFORE you draw a final conclusion as what you choose to believe.) 61. When Jesus knew (or PERCEIVED) in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Does this offend you? 62. What and if you shall SEE the Son of MAN ASCEND UP where he was BEFORE? (this is yet another verse used to TRY and prove that Jesus PREXISTED WITH Almighty God as the SON of God or as God the SON, the so called second person of the trinity in order to try and prove that Jesus is THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF. We will look at this verse more closely in the next section, but for now I will point out that this verse says the Son of MAN and NOT the SON OF GOD that SHALL be seen by his disciples ASCENDING UP where he was BEFORE. So again WHEN did the apostles SEE the Son of MAN ascend up into heaven? The answer is forty days AFTER Jesus DESCENDED BACK DOWN to the earth AFTER Jesus was crucified, rose from the grave and ACENDED UP to heaven for the FIRST time to receive his reward of ETERANL LIFE that was one of the prizes of joy that was set before Jesus that strengthened him to ENDURE the cross to die for SINNERS like you and I ONCE were before we accepted Jesus as our savior. Please read the study “HOW YOU CAN LIVE YOUR LIFE FREE FORM SIN!”)Also please know and understand that the Son of MAN could NOT have PREEXISTED for all eternity without BEGINNING, because mankind was CREATED and therefore had a BEGINNING. Nor could Jesus have PREXISTED as the SON OF God for all eternity WITHOUT BEGINNING, because a SON is BEGOTTEN or BORN, or BROUGHT INTO EXISTENCE where the SON never existed before EXCEPT in the MIND and PLAN of Almighty God to ONE DAY bring forth his only BEGOTTEN SON into the world by his SPOKEN WORD. So the only way that I myself can understand that Jesus preexisted was as the WORD of God. Please read the study “JOHN 1:1-THE WORD WAS GOD!”) 63. It is the SPIRIT that quickens (or it is the eternal Holy Spirit being Almighty God the Father himself who MAKE ALIVE his WORDS to BE or to BECOME what God has SPOKEN forth to BECOME.); the flesh (physical food) profits nothing: the WORDS that I SPEAK unto you, THEY are SPIRIT, and THEY are LIFE. (it is the bread of life or the leaven of life, or the DOCTRINE of life, or the TEACHING of life, or the WORDS of life that CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN that were GIVEN to JESUS to SPEAK FORTH as a PROPHET and SERVANT of Almighty God the Father. And NOT that Jesus was LITTERALLY a PREEXISTING Spirit being as God the SON the so called second person of the trinity. The WORD was SENT down from heaven by the angel Gabriel and was SPOKEN to the virgin Mary. And then when Mary AGREED to the SPOKE WORD of Almighty God by saying BE it DONE unto me ACCORDING to your WORD, then the SPOKEN WORD of Almighty God was MADE to become a HUMAN BEING in which Almighty God the Father DWELT IN when the eternal Holy Spirit descended from heaven in the form of a dove to ANOINT or DWELL IN his SON Jesus to EMPOWER his SON to preach the gospel and do all the WILL of his Father who BEGOT his SON into the world.) 64. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. (This verse does NOT mean that simply because Jesus KNEW from the beginning that Jesus therefore must be ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF. The word translated as “knew”here literally mean “PERCEIVED”. In other words, Jesus PERCEIVED by Almighty God the Father who DWELT IN him who should betray him. The beginning could mean from the very moment Jesus chose Judas, or it could mean anytime BEFORE that actual event took place. You see, Jesus was GIVEN revelation knowledge all through his ministry. Please read the record of the transfiguration where Jesus is TOLD plainly what death he should die. Before this time Jesus only knew what he read from the scriptures and PERCEIVED by the Holy Spirit who DWELT IN him to lead and guide Jesus into all truth.) 65. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 67. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will you also go away? 68. Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? YOU (or you are the ONLY one to) have the WORDS of eternal life. (Jesus was THE ANOINTED TEACHER sent by Almighty God as the BREAD of LIFE CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN to TEACH mankind the WORDS of eternal life. This is what John 6:38 means when Jesus said I COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN. Jesus was saying that he was being sent by his God and Father to TEACH the WORDS of eternal life and what we MUST believe in order to forgiven of our past sins to be place back into a right relationship with Almighty God so that the Father could DWELL IN us in the same way that Almighty God the Father DWELT IN his SON Jesus to EMPOWER his SON to do the WORKS that his God and Father SENT his SON to do. And one of those WORKS was to TEACH us the WORDS of eternal life so that we would believe on the name of the SON OF Almighty God to endure unto the end to receive eternal life in the world to come.) 69. And WE (the very disciples of Jesus who were EYEWITNESSES of Jesus) BELIEVE and are SURE that you are THAT CHRIST, the SON OF the living God. (all through the New Testament you will find that the very apostles and deciples of Jesus di NOT believe and confess or teach that Jesus was the One TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF, but rather they clearly and plainly taught that Jesus is the SON OF almighty God the Father whom his God and Father ANOINTED. This is what the word CHRIST means, to be ANOINTED by Almighty God with his very own self same eternal Holy Spirit in order to be EMPOWERED to do the WORKS that God has sent us to do.) 70. Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71. He spoke of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.”
================================ VERSE #6. DOES 1 CORINTHIANS 15:47 “THE SECOND ADAM IS THE LORD FROM HEAVEN” PROVE THAT JESUS PREEXISTED?
Does 1 Corinthians 15:47 prove without a doubt that Jesus preexisted for all eternity without beginning as God the SON the second person of the trinity? Here is the verse in question.
“The first MAN is of the earth, earthy: the second MAN is the Lord from heaven.”
First of all the question is NOT whether or not Jesus PREEXISTED, because most every Christian believes that Jesus preexisted in some way. But rather the question is did Jesus preexist ALONG SIDE Almighty God as God the SON as the doctrine of the trinity and the doctrine of the deity of Jesus teach? Those who teach the doctrine of the trinity dogmatically demand without fail that this verse proves without a doubt that Jesus preexisted as the Lord of heaven, God's Son who is CO ETERNAL and CO EQUAL with Almighty God the Father. But what does the word of TRUTH teach us? Let us read this verse in the CONTEXT of where it is found to see what this verse is truly teaching us. Please read 1 Corinthians 15:12-52 where the main SUBJECT in the RESURRECTION and being given new SPIRITUAL IMMORTAL BODIES of flesh and bone like our Lord Jesus Christ was given after his resurrection from the dead.
“Now if Christ (or now if the ANOINTED ONE) be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? (so the main subject throughout this entire passage of scripture is teaching that Jesus was indeed raised from the dead and given a new spiritual immortal body to give us assurance that we also shall be raised from the dead and be given a glorified immortal body of flesh and bone just like Jesus) 13. But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ ( the ANOINTED ONE) not risen: 14. And if Christ (the ANOINTED ONE) be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ (the ANOINTED ONE): whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ (the ANOINTED ONE) raised : 17. And if Christ (the ANOINTED ONE) be not raised, your faith is vain; you are yet in your sins. 18. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19. If in this life only we have hope in Christ (the ANOINTED ONE), we are of all men most miserable. 20. But now is Christ (the ANOINTED ONE) risen from the dead, and become the FIRST fruits of them that slept. (Jesus the anointed one is called the FIRST BORN from the dead and the FIRST BORN among many brethren, and the FIRST BORN of every creature where all these verses are speaking of Jesus being the FIRST HUMAN BEING to be raised from the dead AND GIVEN IMMORTALITY.) 21. For since by MAN came death, by MAN came ALSO the resurrection of the dead. (this verse clearly teaches us that Jesus NEEDED to be a MAN, the Son of MAN a HUMAN BEING in order to redeem mankind back to Almighty God) 22. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ (or even so in the ANOINTED MAN Jesus) shall all be made alive. 23. But every man in his own order: Christ (or the ANOINTED MAN Jesus) the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's (those who believe that Jesus is the SON OF God and the Son of MAN who was ANOINTED by his God and Father) at his coming. 24. Then comes the END (speaking of the END of the 1000 year reign of Jesus), when he (speaking of Jesus) shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, EVEN the Father;(Here in this verse Almighty God is CLEARLY and PLAINLY identified as being the FATHER to which Jesus his SON commits the kingdom of God back into his Father's hands) when he (speaking of Almighty God the Father) shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25. For he (Jesus) must reign, till he (Almighty God the Father) has put all enemies under his feet (under his Son's feet). 26. The LAST enemy that shall be destroyed is DEATH (which is destroyed in the lake of fire after the 1000 year reign of Jesus). 27. For he (Almighty God the Father) has put all things under his feet (The feet of his SON Jesus). But when he (the Father) said all things are put under him (his SON Jesus), it is manifest (CLEARLY shown, clearly revealed, clearly made known) that he (Almighty God the Father) is EXCEPTED, which did put all things under him (His SON Jesus). 28. And when all things shall be subdued unto him (Jesus), then shall the Son also himself be SUBJECT unto him (Almighty God the Father) that put all things under him (Jesus the SON OF Almighty God the Father), that God may be ALL in ALL. (So from this passage of scripture it is clearly made perfectly clear that Jesus is UNDER and SUBJECT to his God and Father the ONLY ONE TRUE MOST HIGH ALMIGHTY God the FATHER even after the 1000 year reign of Jesus ruling and reigning in his Father's kingdom that was GIVEN to the SON to reign. So then, DURING the earthly ministry BEFORE Jesus became obedient unto death on the cross Jesus was UNDER and SUBJECT to his God and Father. Then AFTER Jesus was HIGHLY EXALTED by his God and Father to rule at his Father's side Almighty God was still over his SON, but Jesus was GIVEN ALL POWER over every thing else. Then AFTER the 1000 year reign of Jesus he will commit the rule of his Father's kingdom back into his Father's hands and Almighty God the Father will resume his full power and authority over ALL including his SON Jesus. So then, the word of TRUTH at NO time EVER teaches us that Jesus is CO EQUAL with his God and Father. Therefore for ME, I must REJECT the FALSE teaching of the doctrine of the trinity. You are free to do as you desire, but before you make you final decision I implore you to consider the WHOLE matter.) 29. Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead? (Remember that Paul is teaching about FALSE teachers. In verse he spoke of the false teaching that there was NO resurrection and now Paul is speaking out against those FALSE teachers that baptize in proxy for the dead. The Mormons follow this FALSE teaching of baptizing for the dead) 30. And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? 31. I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. 32. If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantage it me, if the dead rise not? Let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die. 33. Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. 34. Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame. 35. But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come? (The Jehovah's Witnesses FALSELY teach that Jesus rose from the dead as a SPIRIT being and that he has ALREADY returned INVISIBLY and is presently reigning. This cannot possibly be true, because the first thing Jesus is going to do is destroy all the weapons of war and eliminate war. Second the word of TRUTH clearly says that EVERY EYE shall SEE him and I can tell you for one that my eyes have NOT yet seen the physical bodily return of Jesus) 36. Thou fool, that which you sow is not quickened, except it die: 37. And that which you sow, you sow not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38. But God gives it a body as it has pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. (this is one verse that can be used to show that there may very well be animals in the world to come. I say his because some dogmatically demand that there will be absolutely NO animal in heaven or the world to come. All I know for sure is that the lamb will lay down with the wolf and the lion with eat grass like the ox, so it sounds like to me there WILL be animals in the world to come.) 40. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differs from another star in glory. 42. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (the natural body comes FIRST and then it is raised to become a spiritual body) 45. And so it is written, The first man Adam was MADE (created) a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. (the literal Greek reads, “...the first human Adam became into soul living and the last Adam into SPIRIT making live” In other words, AFTER Jesus became obedient unto death on the cross his God and Father HIGHLY EXALTED his SON Jesus and GAVE his SON to have IMMORTALITY in himself even as his Father has always possessed immortality and ALSO Jesus was GIVEN power and authority to MAKE ALIVE the dead. So the first Adam was made a living mortal soul with a mortal human body and the Jesus the last Adam was made an IMMORTAL SPIRIT with an IMMORTAL BODY of flesh and bone) 46. Howbeit that was NOT FIRST which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and AFTERWARD that which is spiritual. (in other words, the SPIRITUAL BODY or the SPIRITUAL MAN was NOT FIRST, but rather that which was FIRST is the NATURAL HUMAN BODY. That is to say, Jesus did NOT come down out of heaven with a SPIRITUAL BODY FIRST to then become a HUMAN being in a NATURAL EARTHLY BODY to then be HIGHLY EXALTED to be given a SPIRITUAL BODY. This makes absolute NO sense to ME to say the Jesus ALWAYS existed WITH God the Father as God the SON who was EQUAL in every way with God the Father from all eternity past to one day come down out of heaven to become a MAN to die for the sins of the people only to be exalted back to a level that is UNDER and now SUBJECT to his God and Father. The word of TRUTH teaches us that there was a JOY set before Jesus that encouraged and strengthened Jesus to ENDURE the cross. So I ask you my dear brothers and sisters in out Lord Jesus Christ WHAT king of JOY is it to be DEMOTED from being EQUAL with God the Father DOWN to being UNDER and SUBJECT to God the Father. Can you not see, that Jesus needed to be a MAN to redeem mankind, because it was a MAN who disobeyed God to bring sin into the world and death by sin.) 47. The first man (NOT the first Adam, but the FIRST MAN or the FIRST BODY) is of the earth, earthy: the second man (or the SECOND BODY) is the Lord from heaven. (Acts 2:36 clearly teaches us that Almighty God the Father MADE his SON Jesus to be BOTH Lord and CHRIST. “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified , both Lord and Christ.” And Philippians 2:4-11 agrees with this interpretation that Jesus die not become HIGHLY EXLATED until AFTER he became obedient to die on the cross for the sins of the whole world. Please read the study “Philippians 2:6- A TRINITARIAN DILEMMA!” So to ME Paul is speaking AFTER the fact when he identifies the second man or the second Adam as the Lord from heaven. Jesus has already come the FIRST time and NOW the disciples are WAITING the RETURN of the Lord FROM heaven. Also the Greek word “EK or EX” that is TRANSLATED as “FROM” can is also translated as “IN” in other places in the Bible, so this verse could just as easily read “...and the second man is the Lord IN heaven.”, which is where our Lord is at this present time. This Greek word also denotes ORIGIN or more precisely SOURCE and is translated many ways such as from, WITH, BY, and OF heaven. I personally do not know any Christian who denies that the SOUCE of the ORIGIN of Jesus came from HEAVEN. There is NO DOUBT that the SOURCE of ORIGIN of the human Jesus did indeed come FROM heaven above. This interpretation agrees with all the other verses that clearly teach us that Jesus came OUT FROM God and that the SON is OF God. No one is doubting the MIRACULOUS BIRTH of Jesus who was begotten OF Almighty God the Father and BORN of a HUMAN woman, a VIRGIN. The question at hand is did Jesus always preexist as God the SON as the doctrine of the trinity dogmatically teaches?) 48. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49. And as we have borne the image (the likeness, the form) of the earthy, we shall also bear the image (the likeness, the form) of the heavenly. 50. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither does corruption inherit incorruption. 51. Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep (die), but we shall all (all who are good and faithful believers in Jesus the Christ, the anointed one of Almighty God the Father shall) be changed (given new glorified immortal spiritual bodies of flesh and bone just like Jesus was given and now has being made both Lord and Christ), 52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump (speaking of the 7th trumpet of Revelation immediately after the time of great tribulation): for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
So then, from the CONTEXT it is made perfectly clear that the doctrine of the trinity is a FALSE teaching, because the word of TRUTH in this passage of scripture without fail teaches us that Jesus, the SON OF Almighty God is NOT EQUAL with his God and Father. And the Greek word “EK or EX” in the verse in question denotes SOURCE of ORIGIN of our Lord Jesus Christ, which teaches us that Jesus did indeed HAVE a BEGINNING and therefore CAME OUT FROM Almighty God being the SOURCE of his ORIGIN. Also we learned that this same Greek word that is TRANSLATED as “...and the second MAN is the Lord “FROM” heaven” could just as easily be translated as “and the second MAN is the Lord “IN” heaven.” Again this study in God's word is NOT to learn whether of not Jesus preexisted, because all Christians believe that Jesus preexisted in SOME way. But rather this study is to determine whether of not the DOCTRINE of the trinity is proven by this verse. In other words, does this verse in 1 Corinthians 15:47 prove without fail that Jesus preexisted as God the SON, the second person of the trinity, who is CO EQUAL and CO ETERNAL with Almighty God the Father. So then, I myself have to conclude that the CONTEXT of this verse in question proves that Jesus did NOT preexist as God the SON as the doctrine of the trinity FALSELY teaches. Let us move on to Galatians 4:4 the next verse in question.
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VERSE #7. DOES GALATIANS 4:4
“IN THE FULNESS OF TIME GOD SENT FORTH HIS SON”
PROVE THAT JESUS PREEXISTED?
In order to try and prove the doctrine of the trinity and the doctrine of the deity of Jesus some Christ use the REASONING that is order for God to SEND is SON, then the SON must ALREADY EXIST in heaven with Almighty God the Father for all eternity without a beginning. Let us begin this study in God's word by reading Galatians 4:4.
“But when the FULNESS of the TIME was COME, God SENT FORTH his SON, made of a woman, made under the law,”
Now while this logic that the SON must ALREADY EXIST BEFORE the SON can be SENT FORTH is TRUE it does NOT DOGMATICALLY DEMAND without fail that the SON OF Almighty God preexisted for all eternity without a BEGINNING. In other words, this verse here in Galatians 4:4 clearly and plainly teaches us that this SON that was sent forth was MADE of a woman and MADE UNDER the law and NOT that the SON OF god was sent forth from heaven down to the earth TO BE MADE of a woman, made under the law. But rather this verse means that Jesus was ALREADY born of a woman under the law and THEN in the FULNESS of THE TIME when it was time for Jesus to be ANOINTED with the eternal Holy Spirit of Almighty God to preach the gospel then Almighty God SENT FORTH his SON out into the world to do all his will. In the fulness of the time when Jesus began to be about 30 years of age God SENT FORTH his SON Jesus out into the world to PREACH the gospel. And in John 17:16-22 Jesus says that in the same way that God SENT his SON INTO the world Jesus SENT his disciple INTO the world.
“They (speaking of the disciples of Jesus and all believers in Jesus) are NOT of the world, EVEN AS (or in the SAME WAY AS) I am NOT of the world. (Jesus being NOT of this world does NOT DOGMATICALLY DEMAND that it means that the SON OF God was BORN IN HEAVEN in eternity past BEFORE the SON was SENT down ONTO the EARTH to be BORN of a woman under the law and THEN SENT OUT INTO the world to preach the gospel. But rather this phrase simple means that we follow and obey the voice from ABOVE and do not partake of the sinful things of this world. It means that we as Christians are BORN from ABOVE by the eternal Holy Spirit the DWELT IN Jesus the SON OF Almighty God.) 17. Sanctify them through your truth: your word is truth. 18. AS you have SENT me into the world, EVEN SO (or in the SAME WAY) have I ALSO SENT them into the world. (Can you not see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, that this phrase “SENT INTO the world” does NOT DOGMATICALLY DEMAND that it mean being SENT down from heaven ONTO the EARTH. But rather this phrase simply means being SENT OUT INTO the world. In the fulness of the time Jesus was sent out into the world to preach the gospel.) 19. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. 20. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21. That they ALL may be ONE; AS YOU, Father, are IN me, and I in you, that they ALSO may be ONE in us: that the world may believe that you have sent me. (Jesus being ONE with the Father does NOT DOGMATICALLY DEMAND that Jesus is THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God as some FALSELY teach. But rather being ONE with the Father simply means that they AGREE as ONE. Their WILLS have merged to be UNITED in AGREEMENT for the SAME purpose.)
Also please consider the Almighty God was NOT always a Father and that Jesus was NOT always his SON, but rather the SON was BEGOTTEN OF Almighty God, and THEN Almighty God BECAME a Father on a certain DAY that he BEGOT his SON. Please read Hebrews 1:1-14.
“God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in TIME PAST unto the fathers by the prophets,(In other words, God did NOT speak at ANY time in the OLD Testament BY his SON. Therefore any CLAIMS that the Angel of the Lord was the preexisting Jesus is a FALSE claim according to this passage of scripture. Verse on here says that in times past God spoke by his PROPHETS and in verse 2 we are clearly and plainly told that God in these LAST DAYS has spoken to us BY his SON.) 2. Has in these last days spoken unto us BY his SON, whom he has appointed heir of all things, BY whom also he made the worlds; (Some Christians use this verse to try and prove that Jesus created all things. But the TRUTH of the matter is that Almighty God the Father is the creator of all things and the Almighty God created all things FOR his Son Jesus. You see, the Greek word “DIA” (#1223) that is translated as BY also means through, FOR, BECAUSE OF, and FOR the SAKE OF. The root meaning is the CHANNEL of an act. The REASON for why the act was made. The means of, The GROUND or reason by which something is done or not done, By reason of, on account of, because of, for this reason. Also the LITERAL translation of this verse is as follows “on last one of the days these talks to us in Son whom he places tenant of all through whom also eons he MAKES” In other words, this verse is actually speaking about the ages to come that God makes through his Son Jesus and NOT this present world being made through a preexisting SON of Almighty God. You see the Father has GIVEN all authority and POWER to rule and reign over the WORLD TO COME for a 1000 years to MAKE all the decisions that need to be made. This is what this verse is speaking of rather that the beginning of all creation. We will cover Revelation 3:14 in the next section where Jesus says “I am the BEGINNING of CREATION”. Also please read the study “EPHESIANS 3:9-11- DID JESUS CREATE ALL THINGS?” for a SOUND BIBLICAL teaching on who the WHOLE word of God teaches is the creator of all things.) 3. Who being the brightness of his glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE of his PERSON (Jesus the SON OF God is the EXPRESS IMAGE of the person of God), and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; (now some Christians try and use this verse to try and prove that Jesus as the Word is upholding all things, but in truth the LITERAL Greek is again speaking of the world to come where Jesus is GIVEN all power to rule and reign for a 1000 years. Hers is the LITERAL translation, “Who being from radiance of the esteem and emblem of the understanding of him CARRYING ON besides the ALL to the declaration of the ability of him through himself cleansing making of the sins of us is seated in right hand of majesty in heights.” As you can see Jesus if GIVEN POWER to carry on to rule in his Father's kingdom at his Father's right hand. Also this verse teaches us that Jesus over came sin through the POWER of the Father.) 4. Being MADE so much BETTER than the ANGELS, as he has BY inheritance OBTAINED a more excellent name than they. (Hebrews 2:7-9 and Psalms 8:3-5 teaches us that the first estate of Jesus, the SON OF Almighty God was made a little LOWER or INFERIOR to the angels. And Philippians 2:4-11 teaches us that it was only AFTER Jesus as the Son of MAN became obedient to do all the will of HIS God and Father even to die on the cross for the sins of the whole world that the Father HIGHLY EXALTED his SON Jesus to INHERIT a more excellent name that is above all of God's creation. Basically Jesus is SECOND in rank and power only to his God and Father the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God.) 5. For unto which of the ANGELS said he (Almighty God the Father) at ANY TIME, You are my SON, THIS DAY have I BEGOTTEN you? (First of all this verse should prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that Jesus did NOT preexist as a ANGEL, which some like the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses FALSELY teach, because this verse clearly says that God never said at ANY TIME to one of the ANGELS to be his SON. Secondly the phrase “THIS DAY I have BEGOTTEN you” clearly teaches us that Jesus the SON OF Almighty God was BEGOTTEN or brought forth into existence on a CERTAIN DAY, which teaches us without a doubt that the SON did INDEED HAVE a BEGINNING. The every words “SON”and “BEGOTTEN” demand a BEGINNING for Jesus the only BEGOTTEN SON OF God. So then, the ONLY way that Jesus could have preexisted is as the WORD. We will go deeper into this further on in this study of God's word as to HOW Jesus may have preexisted as the Word.) And again, I WILL BE to him a Father, and he SHALL BE to me a SON? 6. And AGAIN, WHEN he brings in the FIRST BEGOTTEN into the world, he said, And let all the angels of God worship him. (this verse is speaking of the SECOND COMING of Jesus when Almighty God brings his SON Jesus BACK into the world to rule and reign for a 1000 years. This is WHEN every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord TO the GLORY OF Almighty God the Father. And all the angels shall worship the SON OF God.) 7. And of the angels he says, Who makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8. But unto the SON he said, Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of your kingdom. (Those who teach the doctrine of the trinity and the doctrine of the deity of Jesus use this verse to TRY and prove that Jesus IS GOD, in that, Jesus is the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God. No it is TRUE that Jesus has been HIGHLY EXALTED to be a God who is UNDER and SUBJECT to his God and Father, this verse does NOT prove that Jesus is THE ALMIGHTY God, who ALONE is the FATHER, because the VERY NEXT verse clearly and plainly teaches us that the Father is God OVER his SON Jesus.) 9. You (my SON) have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; THEREFORE (or for this VERY REASON) God (THE GOD, Almighty God the FATHER), EVEN YOUR God, (clearly without a doubt show us that Almighty God the FATHER is God EVEN OVER his SON Jesus, who HIS God and Father says to his SON Jesus EVEN YOUR God) has ANOINTED you with the oil of gladness above your fellows. 10. And, You, Lord (speaking of Almighty God the FATHER and NOT his SON Jesus. Please see the study “EPHESIANS 3:9-11-DID JESUS CREATE ALL THINGS?”, but for now know that the word “Lord” here can mean a lord as a common man, who is s land owner, or it can mean Lord and referring to Jesus who was MADE to be both Lord and Christ. Of in cam mean LORD as referring ONLY to YHWH, the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God the FATHER. Also know that verse 10 here is QUOTED from Psalm 102:25 verse is quoting Psalm which is definitely speaking of Lord as being Almighty God the FATHER. So if Lord referred to Almighty God the Father in the Old Testament in Psalm 102, then you can be sure without a doubt that the name Lord here in Hebrews 1:10 is STILL YET referring to Almighty God the Father as the CREATOR who), in the beginning has laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11. They shall perish; but you remain; and they all shall wax old as does a garment; 12. And as a vesture shall you fold them up, and they shall be changed: but you are the same, and your years shall not fail. 13. But to which of the ANGELS said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool? (This ONE verse alone should prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that Jesus did NOT preexist as an ANGEL as some FALSELY teach, because God said to his SON, his only BEGOTTEN SON to sit on his right hand. It was the SON OF Almighty God whose first estate was MADE to be a little LOWER that the ANGELS. But then after Jesus the Son of MAN became obedient to do all the will of HIS GOD and Father, then Almighty God the Father HIGHLY EXALTED his only BEGOTTEN SON to inherit a place far ABOVE the ANGELS.) 14. Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?”
So then, from Hebrews chapter on we can eliminate Jesus preexisting as a ANGEL like is taught by the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Mormons, because to NONE of the ANGELS did God ever say, “You are my SON, this day have I begotten you.” We can also eliminate Jesus preexisting as the SON OF God as well clearly seeing that Jesus was BEGOTTEN on a CERTAIN DAY. Therefore the only way that Jesus could have preexisted is as the Word. So then, this leaves us with only TWO possibilities as to HOW Jesus preexisted as the Word.
POSSIBILITY #1.
Jesus preexisted as the Word, where the Word was an actual LITERAL divine Spirit being separate from Almighty God, which Almighty God chose to use to create all things.
POSSIBILITY #2.
Jesus preexisted as the Word, where the Word was God's very OWN Word that was WITHIN HIMSELF that God SPOKE FORTH to create ALL things.
Now personally I myself choose possibility #2 where the Word that was WITH God is referring to God's very own SPOKEN WORD that Almighty God brought forth all things including his SON Jesus by SPEAKING FORTH his thoughts and PLANS in the FORM of his WORD and the spoken WORD BECAME the expressed IMAGE of what God desired to BE. The Bible says that Jesus CAME OUT FROM God, which agrees with the SPOKEN WORD possibility. Jesus understood that the scriptures SPOKE of HIM so he perceived form the scriptures that his ORIGIN was FROM ABOVE and came through God's SPOKEN WORD. This is why Jesus said, “I CAME FROM HEAVEN.” Jesus knew fro the scriptures that the SOURCE of his ORIGIN came from heaven above. Let us take a brief look at the LITERAL translation of John 1:1, which says,
“In beginning was the SAYING and the SAYING was TOWARD THE God and God was the SAYING” Here is the link to the Greek to English Interlinear Bible that I use: http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/joh1.pdf
The word “TOWARD” as defined by the American Heritage Dictionary means; 1. in the direction of, 2. in a position facing, 3. somewhat before in time, approaching, 4. with regard to, in relation to, 5. in furtherance of partial fulfillment of. 6. BY WAY OF ACHEIVING; WITH A VEIW TO, 7. IN PROGRESS or IMMINENT, TRACTIBLE, Coming, favorable, future. Also the word “TOWARD” carries the meaning of forward motion, which again agrees with the interpretation of the Word being the SPOKEN WORD. Now in some translations read “in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was “WITH” THE God, and God was the Word.” The English word translated as “WITH” in the King James Version is the Greek word “PROS”, Strong's #4313, that is translated as “the SAYING was “TOWARD” THE God” in the LITERAL translation. This Greek word has many meanings such as to, for, near, with the God, was toward the God, was BECAUSE OF the God, was or is BELONGING TO the God, is PERTAINING TO the God, was or is NIGH UNTO the God like Romans teaches us that the word is NIGH you and even in your MOUTH, and the SAYING was WITHIN THE God.
Now any one of the definitions could be used in this verse. I personally believe that the best definition is “the SAYING was WITHING THE God, and God was the SAYING.” To me this AGREES perfectly with the OLD Testament where God says, “I AM THAT I AM” The LITERAL translation of this verse in Exodus 3:14 is as follows:
“I SHALL BECOME WHAT I AM BECOMING”
To me this AGREES with the DEFINITION of the Greek word "PROS" in John 1:1, which could be translated as follows:
“In beginning was the SAYING and the SAYING was WITHIN THE God and God was the SAYING.”
All of creation was brought into existence by or through the SPOKEN WORD of Almighty God so WHY try and force the Word in John 1:1 to now mean a LITERAL separate divine CO EQUAL and CO ETERNAL Spirit being along side Almighty God who created all things? All the verses in the New Testament that SEEM to be saying that Jesus created all things actually says that Almighty God created all things BY Jesus, which the writers MAY have INTENDED the reader to understand that Almighty God created all things BY his WORD, his SPOKEN WORD. You see the disciples of Jesus KNEW that the SOURCE of the miraculous VIRGIN birth of Jesus was FROM GOD who SENT his WORD DOWN FROM HEAVEN ABOVE by the Angel Gabriel who SPOKE FORTH God's WORD to Mary. And then when Mary AGREED to God's SPOKEN WORD, then the WORD was MADE flesh in the womb of Mary to be BORN as the Son of MAN. Is this not what the WHOLE word of God teaches us? To ME there is just NOT enough SOUND BIBLICAL evidence to support the INTERPRETATION that the Word was a SEPARATE SECOND PERSON or divine Spirit being that was WITH Almighty God for all eternity WITHOUT ever having a BEGINNING as some dogmatically DEMAND is the ONLY way to INTERPRET John 1:1. Let us move on to the next verse in question, which is Revelation 3:14 where Jesus says, “I am the BEGINNING of CREATION”. =================================
VERSE #8.
DOES REVALTION 3:14
“THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD”
PROVE THAT JESUS PREEXISTED?
“And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things says the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the BEGINNING of the CREATION of God;”
Now some Christians INTERPRET this verse to mean that Jesus is God the SON who was actually the CREATOR of ALL things. And they use verses like Ephesians 3:9-11 to try and support their INTERPRETATION. Please read the study “EPHESIANS 3:9-11 DID JESUS CREATE ALL THINGS?” for a deeper understanding that Almighty God is the CREATOR who created all things FOR or FOR the SAKE OF his SON Jesus having his Son in his MIND of PLAN as the reason for creating all things. Other Christians INTERPRET this verse in Revelation 3:14 to mean that Almighty God the Father is the actual creator who USED his SON Jesus as the MEANS BY WHICH God created all things. But this interpretation does not agree with the rest of God's word, because the SON OF Almighty God was BEGOTTEN or brought INTO EXISTENCE on a certain DAY. Again please read the above mentioned study which shows and explains the verse where Almighty God says THIS DAY I have BEGOTTEN you. Along this same line of thinking other Christians understand that the Jesus did NOT preexists as the SON OF Almighty God, but rather Jesus preexisted as the Word. Therefore Jesus as the WORD created all things. Now the Jehovah's Witnesses teach along this line of reasoning saying that Almighty God Jehovah CREATED Jesus as a SPIRIT BEING called the WORD, who then created all other things. But really none of these INTERPRETATION truly agree with the WHOLE word of Almighty God. For you see no matter HOW you INTERPRET the PREEXISTENCE of Jesus you can never make Jesus to have ALWAYS preexisted as an IMMORTAL being or so called second person of the TRINITY, because 1 Timothy 6:13-16 clearly teaches us that ALMIGHTY God ALONE has always possessed IMMORTALITY.
“I give you charge in the sight of God, who quickens ALL things (or in the sight of Almighty God the father the ONLY SOVEREIGN God who makes alive ALL things), AND before Christ (the ANOITED ONE) Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 14. That you keep this commandment (or that you keep this principle or this teaching) without spot, UNREBUKABLE, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15. Which in his TIMES (speaking of both the first and second comings of Jesus) he shall SHOW, WHO is the blessed and ONLY POTENTATE, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16. Who ONLY has IMMORTALITY, dwelling in the light which NO MAN can approach unto; whom NO MAN has SEEN, NOR CAN SEE: to whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen.”
Now all one needs to do is THINK this through for YOURSELF and ask yourself two simple questions: #1. Did men SEE Jesus? #2. Has any man other than Jesus SEEN Almighty God the FATHER? To ME the answer is obvious that Almighty God the FATHER is the ONLY one who has ALWAYS possessed IMMORTALITY. Therefore there can be NO SECOND person of the so called TRINITY who has ALWAYS been IMMORTAL for all eternity. You see the TRUTH of the matter is that Jesus, the SON OF God was GIVEN ETERNAL LIFE or IMMORTALITY by his God and Father. Please read John 5:26,27, which clearly and plainly teaches us that Jesus did NOT preexist as an IMMORTAL being as a SECOND person of the so called TRINITY, because he need to be GIVEN IMMORTALITY after he became obedient unto death on the cross.
“For AS (or in the SAME WAY that) the Father HAS life IN himself; SO HAS he GIVEN TO the Son to HAVE LIFE IN himself; 27. AND has GIVEN him authority to execute judgment ALSO, BECAUSE he is the Son of MAN.”
So then, to ME to only way that I myself have found to interpret Revelation 3:14 where Jesus says that he is the BEGINNING of the CREATION of God is to say that this verse means that Almighty God has his SON Jesus in his MIND to bring forth into existence BEFORE Almighty God THOUGHT of any other thing or being to create. Let us take a look at some other translations of the verse. Here is Revelation 3:14 from the Bible in Basic English.
“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea say: These things says the true and certain witness, the HEAD of God's new order.”
Here is Revelation 3:14 from the Common English Bible.
“Write this to the angel of the church in Laodicea: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the RULER of God's creation.”
Here is Revelation 3:14 from the Holman Christian Satndard.
“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: "The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the ORIGINATOR of God's creation says:”
Here is Revelation 3:14 from the New International Readers.
“Here is what I command you to write to the church in Laodicea. Here are the words of the One who is the Amen. What he gives witness to is faithful and true. He RULES OVER what God has created. He says,”
Here is Revelation 3:14 from the New Revised Standard.
“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ORIGIN of God's creation.”
Here is Revelation 3:14 from the Message Bible.
“Write to Laodicea, to the Angel of the church. God's Yes, the Faithful and Accurate Witness, the FIRST of God's creation, says:”
Here is Revelation 3:14 from the Young's Literal Translation.
“And to the messenger of the assembly of the Laodiceans write: These things saith the Amen, the witness -- the faithful and true -- the CHIEF of the creation of God;”
The Greek word that is translated as beginning in the King James Bible is “ARCHE”, which means commencement, or chief. And carries the meaning of order or rank. In other words, this Greek word can mean FIRST, as in, the FIRST creation that God created. Or FIRST, as in, the CHIEF or HIGHEST being that Almighty God has created. And another possible meaning I that God created all thing with FIRST having his SON Jesus is his mind and plan as to one day bring forth into existence. But not matter which of these three possible interpretation is chosen the end result is the same, and that is Jesus was CREATED at some point in time and therefore could not possibly be THE ALMIGHTY God. This Greek word “ARCHE” also means a BEGINNING. To COMMENCE means to BEGIN. But again the meaning of begin or origin or originator in the light of the WHOLE word of God means that the IDEA of having a SON was the ORIGINATOR or the active cause of Almighty God creating all things. In other words, Almighty God himself BEGAN to create all things with is SON Jesus is MIND as the FIRST or PRIMARY focus for the REASON of ALL creation. You see the Greek word “DIA” that is translated as “BY” in Ephesians 3:9-11 where this verse SEEMS to be saying that ALL things were created BY Jesus Christ is actually saying that all things were created FOR Jesus Christ or FOR the SAKE OF Jesus Christ.
“And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world has been hid in God, WHO created all things BY (DIA) Jesus Christ:”
You see, the Greek word “DIA” (#1223) that is translated as BY also means through, FOR, BECAUSE OF, and FOR the SAKE OF. The root meaning is the CHANNEL of an act. The REASON for why the act was made. The means of, The GROUND or reason by which something is done or not done, By reason of, on account of, because of, for this reason. The base meaning of the word "CHANNEL" is to direct something towards something. The whole idea of to channel is direct everything that one is channeling to a specific point or place. To channel is to direct, to guide along some desired course. So then the ACT of creation is DIRECTED towards the ETERNAL PURPOSE of Almighty God of having a SON who would become the everlasting Father or more precisely God's SON would become the Father or the beginning of ETERNAL LIFE being the FIRST born from the dead among many brethren. Again please read the study “EPHESIANS 3:9-11 DID JESUS CREATE ALL THINGS?” for a deeper understanding that Almighty God himself is the creator of all things and that his SON Jesus was the REASON FOR which the Father created all things. So then I myself must conclude that Revelation 3:14 does NOT prove without fail that Jesus ETERNALLY preexisted for all eternity as the so called SECOND person of the TRINITY. At best this verse can be interpreted as the Word being the MEANS by which all things were created BY Almighty God HIMSELF. But this verse in Revelation says that Jesus is the BEGINNING of GOD'S creation, and NOT that God USED Jesus as his means to create all things. In other words, to me this verse is better interpreted and Jesus being the FIRST or the CHEIF or the PRINCIPLE reason of God's creation.
Let us continue this study in God's word by reading the next verse in question 1 Corinthians 10:4.
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VERSE #9.
DOES 1 CORINTHIANS 10:4
“AND THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST”
PROVE THAT JESUS PREEXISTED?
Some Christians dogmatically teach that without fail Jesus PREEXISTED as the second person of the trinity or as the Son of Almighty God the Father. Other teach that Jesus PREXISTED as an ANGEL who then changed form to become the Son of Almighty God the Father. And yet others teach that Jesus PREEXISTED as a SPIRIT being along side or WITH Almighty God as the WORD. But what does the WHOLE word of God teach us? Let us begin this study in God's word by reading this verse is question. Here is 1 Corinthians 10:4.
“And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.”
Now some Christians interpret this verse to dogmatically without fail mean that Jesus PREEXISTED in the Old Testament, because Paul clearly identifies the rock the Moses smote or hit with a stick in the wilderness was CHRIST. And then they say that Jesus IS THE ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF, because they take other Old Testament verses which clearly and plainly teach us that Almighty God Yehweh himself is the ROCK and conclude since Paul say Jesus is the rock and these other verse say that Almighty God is the rock, then therefore Jesus must without fail be THE ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF. But again is this SOUND BIBLICAL teaching based upon the WHOLE word of Almighty God? As I have said may times that any verse when taken out of context and viewed alone and apart from the whole word of God may SEEM to be something that it is not truly saying. So then let us read this verse in question being left in the context of where it is found. Please read 1 Corinthians 10:1-11.
“Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2. And were all baptized unto Moses (some Bible scholars teach that Moses was a type or figure of Jesus Christ and we as Christians are baptized in Jesus as the people of Israel were baptized unto Moses) in the cloud and in the sea; 3. And did all eat the same SPRITUAL meat; 4. And did all drink the same SPIRITUAL drink: for they drank of that SPIRITUAL Rock (Paul is teaching us a SPIRITUAL lesson from these things written in the Old Testament) that followed them: and that Rock was CHRIST (the ANOINTING of Almighty God or more specifically the ETERNAL Holy Spirit who DWELT IN Jesus, the SON OF Almighty God the Father. Whenever you read the word “CHRIST” do not automatically substitute the name Jesus for the word “CHRIST”, because the word Christ is not Jesus' last name. But rather this word means that Jesus is the chosen one whom Almighty God the Father DWELT IN to empower his Son to do the works that he sent his So to do. Please read the study “JESUS THE CHRIST” for a deeper understanding of what I mean by this.). 5. But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6. Now these things were OUR EXAMPLES, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7. Neither be you idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8. Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9. Neither let us tempt CHRIST (the ANOINTING or more precisely, the ETERNAL SPIRIT, who DWELET IN Jesus the SON OF Almighty God and Father. You see the truth of the matter is that Almighty God the eternal Holy Spirit himself was that one who stood before Moses on the rock that he instructed Moses to strike with the rod of Aaron. Please read Exodus 17. So what Paul is teaching us hear it for us NOT to tempt the Holy Spirit, the CHRIST, or the ANOINTING within us.), as some of them also tempted (Almighty God the eternal and invisible Spirit that went before them as a pillar of cloud by day and went behind them or followed them as a pillar of fire by night. In other words, CHRIST ro Almighty God did not DWELL IN the people of Israel as he now DWELLS IN us as believers in his Son Jesus, but rather was with them in the wilderness, But they tempted God saying is the Lord with us or not?), and were destroyed of serpents. 10. Neither murmur you, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11. Now ALL these things happened unto them for EXAMPLES: and they are written for OUR admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.”
So then, from the CONTEXT we clearly see that the literal physical rock in the Old Testament was a SPIRITUAL lesson TEACHING us of the coming the CHRIST, the coming of the ANOINTED ONE of Almighty God to be our Messiah, our savior, the atonement for our sins, our redeemer. But Paul was not just comparing that physical rock only as an EXAMPLE written for US, but ALL these things HAPPENED unto God's people FOR OUR EXAMPLE and OUR admonition. In other words, Jesus did NOT PREEXIST as that physical rock any more than Jesus preexisted as a literal physical LAMB that was literally ALREADY slain from before the foundation of the world, which would be BEFORE any lambs were ever created. NO! A thousand times NO! These were written for our EXAMPLE. These verses that SEEM to be teaching that Jesus preexisted in some form are TYPES, SHADOWS, and FIGURES or PROPHESIES foretelling of the coming of Jesus to be the Messiah or the savior, whom Almighty God himself would raise up from AMONG the PEOPLE. Jesus preexisted in PROPHECY foretelling us of his coming. These things HAPPENED and were WRITTEN for our example and for our admonition or WARNING. I mean THINK this through for yourself. IF SO BE that Jesus PREEXISTED in some literal form whether it be as the Son of Almighty God being the second person of the trinity, or whether it be that Jesus preexisted as an ANGEL or some SPIRIT being called the WORD that was WITH God, but yet was ONE and the SELF SAME BEING as Almighty God himself, then WHY does the word of TRUTH, the Holy Bible teach us in Luke 2:52 that Jesus INCREASED in FAVOR with BOTH Almighty God the Father and man? Luke 2:52.
“And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.”
Now IF SO BE that Jesus himself had always PREEXISTED with Almighty God or was Almighty God himself, then this would mean that Jesus would have ALREADY had or possessed ALL the favor he had always had preexisting with God from all eternity past. But yet the word of TRUTH clearly teaches us that Jesus INCREASED in wisdom and favor WITH GOD. Other verses like John 17:5 that are used to dogmatically demand without fail that Jesus preexisted from all eternity past and therefore concluded that Jesus had NO BEGINNING ever and thus is CO ETERNAL with Almighty God the Father can be interpreted in other ways that do NOT contradict any other part of God's word. John 17:5
“And now, O Father, glorify you me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world was.”
Now again when one views this one verse ALONE and APART from the REST of God's word it does indeed SEEM to be saying that Jesus PREEXISTED before the world was created with Almighty God as a SEPARATE BEING from Almighty God the Father who shared the GLORY that belonged to Almighty God himself. But when this verse and others are interpreted in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of God, then it becomes clear that Jesus UNDERSTOOD the SCRIPTURES that spoke OF HIM being the one prophesied to come. In other words, Jesus understood of the glory that the SON OF God would be glorified with by the Father was prophesied from the BEGINNING. Jesus understood that the scriptures spoke of HIM so when he read Proverbs 8 Jesus saw the THOUGHTS and PLANS of Almighty God an how his SON REJOICED before him in the inhabitable part of the earth BEFORE the earth was ever created for mankind. Please take a close look at Proverbs 8:22-31
“The Lord (YHWH Almighty God the owner and possessor of all, who we now know as the Father) possessed (acquired, owned, brought forth, formed, created) me (Jesus or more precisely the WORD, as in, the Word literally being a second separate divine Spirit being, OR the Word being the SPOKEN WORD of Almighty God, which to me agrees better with the WHOLE word of God.) in the beginning of his way, before HIS works of old (speaking of Almighty God's works). 23. I (Jesus, the SON in the form of God's WORD that he spoke through his prophets and had them write it down for all generations) was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 24. When there were no depths, I (Jesus, the SON in the form of his WORD) was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. 25. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I (Jesus, the SON, in the form of his WORD was) brought forth: 26. While as yet HE (Almighty God who we now know as the Father, but was not yet actually a Father as yet, because his SON Jesus was NOT YET BORN or begotten seeing that HE Almighty God) had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. 27. When HE (Almighty God who we know know as the Father) prepared the heavens, I (Jesus, the SON, in the form of the WORD only) was there: when HE (Almighty God the Father) set a compass upon the face of the depth: 28. When HE (Almighty God the Father) established the clouds above: when HE (Almighty God the Father) strengthened the fountains of the deep. 29. When HE (Almighty God the Father) gave to the sea HIS (God the Father’s) decree, that the waters should not pass HIS (God the Father’s) commandment: when HE (God the Father) appointed the foundations of the earth: 30. Then I (Jesus, the SON in the form of the WORD) was BY him,(or with his Father, the Word was WITH God in the THOUGHTS of God or came to be in existence as as result of God giving BIRTH to his FIRST SPOKEN WORD to bring forth a SPIRIT being as his SON that God called his WORD) as one brought up with him: and I (Jesus, the SON being in the form of the WORD whether that be the IMAGE of God's THOUGHTS or and actual separate SPIRIT being) was daily HIS delight, rejoicing always before HIM; 31. Rejoicing in the habitable part of HIS earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.”
One can readily see from this passage of scripture that Jesus himself is saying that Almighty God the Father was behind all that was created and that he, God's WORD WITHIN Almighty God of one day bringing forth his only BEGOTTEN Son was there with the one true God BEFORE the FOUNDATIONS of the EARTH as God's delight rejoicing before Almighty God IN the inhabitable part of the EARTH that had NOT YET been CREATED. So clearly to ME, Jesus as God's SON was with God at this time before the foundation of the world ONLY in God's THOUGHTS, in God's PLAN to one day bring forth his SON in to existence. The reason I say this is because HOW could Jesus rejoice before his God and Father IN the inhabitable part of the EARTH when the earth had NOT yet been created as yet EXCEPT in the MIND and the PLAN of ALMIGHTY God. So you see, when Jesus said glorify me with the glory I had with you before the world began to me Jesus was praying to his God and Father, I am getting ready to go through a time very shortly Father that when I take on the sins of the world you are going to turn your back on me, so I pray that you return me to the glorious delight that you had for me before the world began and before I was ever BORN. You see, Jesus knew the scriptures spoke of him. Jesus knew that he was the chosen one sent by Almighty God to become that sacrifice for mankind because the Spirit of God taught him morning by morning from the scriptures. Jesus saw the END from the Scriptures, but he still had to BELIEVE. And because of the joy that was set before Jesus he endured the cross for us knowing that his God and Father is FAITHFUL to perform his spoken word. So then, because Jesus became obedient even unto death on the cross Almighty God HIGHLY EXALTED his Son and GAVE him a name that is above every name. Also John 17:5 in the LITERAL Greek can be translated in a number of ways. First let us read this verse again from the King James version.
“And now, O Father, glorify you me with your own self with the glory which I HAD with you BEFORE the world WAS.”
Please notice that I have emphasized three words. The word that is translated as "I HAD" is the Greek word "ECHO" Strong's # 2192, which means to hold, to keep, or to be as a possession or as a condition. In other words, in the light of the rest of Gods's word Jesus is asking his God and Father to glorify him with the glory which God has promised and is holding in store for him. Thayer's Greek to English Lexicon defines this word to mean to have in store. Hebrews 12:1-4 teaches us that Almighty God set something that brought JOY in view before his Son Jesus which gave his SON strength to ENDURE the suffering of the cross. “Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which does so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2. Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who FOR (or BECAUSE OF) the JOY that was SET BEFORE him ENDURED the cross, despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3. For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself,lest you be wearied and faint in your minds. 4. You have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.”
Now we as Christians have a PRIZE that is set before us to strengthen us to ENDURE unto the end that is RESERVED in heaven for us, so why is it so hard to see that Jesus was simply praying and asking God to glorify his Son with the glory that was being RESERVED in heaven for him. The word that is translated as "BEFORE" can also mean previous and the word that is translated as "WAS" also means "TO BE". Now some Bible scholars interpret John 17:5 to mean that Jesus was asking to be glorified with the glory which Almighty God the Father was HOLDING IN STORE for him to enjoy prior to the world yet to come. This interpretation does agree with the truth of the whole word of God which teaches us that Jesus is in heaven NOW in his glorified state sitting at the right hand of his Father on his Father's throne. But even if the writer did not mean the world to come and truly meant before the foundation of the world, the fact that a JOY was set before Jesus still holds true. In other words, Jesus asking the Father to glorify him with the JOY that was set before him still agrees with the whole word of Almighty God as we have already seen from Proverbs chapter 8 where Jesus rejoiced in the habitable place of the earth BEFORE the earth was every created. Proverbs 8:29-31. “When HE (Almighty God the Father) gave to the sea HIS (God the Father’s) decree, that the waters should not pass HIS (God the Father’s) commandment: when HE (God the Father) appointed the foundations of the earth: 30. Then I (Jesus, the SON in the form of the WORD) was BY him,(or with his Father, the Word was WITH God in the THOUGHTS of God or came to be in existence as as result of God giving BIRTH to his FIRST SPOKEN WORD to bring forth a SPIRIT being as his SON that God called his WORD) as one brought up with him: and I (Jesus, the SON being in the form of the WORD whether that be the IMAGE of God's THOUGHTS or and actual separate SPIRIT being) was daily HIS delight, rejoicing always before HIM; 31. Rejoicing in the habitable part of HIS earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.”
1 Peter 1:3-13 teaches us that the prophets of old were desiring to look into this glory that was to follow in the world to come.
“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy has begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4. To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fades not away, RESERVED in heaven for you, 5.Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6. Wherein you greatly REJOICE, though now for a season, if need be, you are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7. That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perishes, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and GLORY at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 8. Whom having not seen, you love; in whom, though now you see him not, yet believing, you REJOICE with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9. Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. 10. Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11. Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified BEFORE HAND the sufferings of Christ, AND the GLORY that should FOLLOW. 12. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. 13. Wherefore gird up the loins o your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto yo at the revelation of Jesus Christ;”
I believe that Jesus UNDERSTOOD that the scriptures spoke of HIM and so Jesus knew that this GLORY was stored up in heaven being RESERVED for him. So in John 17:4 Jesus is simply asking his God and Father to glorify him with the ETERNAL LIFE that was reserved for him by his Father's side which was planned for his SON BEFORE the foundation of the world and certainly given to him before the world to come. Let us now read the entire chapter of John 17, all 26 verses, with the focus on John 17:22 where Jesus GAVE us the same GLORY that Jesus is ASKING in prayer to be GORIFIED with the GLORY that he had BEFORE the world ever was by Almighty God the Father. But I want you to read this chapter with the Hebrew Jewish mindset that way that they talked and understood things. What I mean by this is that many things written in the Bible are written in the PAST tense, but yet they are speaking of a FUTURE event. In other words, the GLORY that Jesus was asking to be glorified with is the PROMISE of ETERNAL LIFE, which is the SAME glory that Jesus has ALREADY GIVEN US as believers. John 17:1-26 “These words spoke Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the HOUR is come; glorify your Son, that your Son also may glorify you: (In other words, Jesus is asking the Father to NOT leave his soul in hell, but to GLORFY him by RAISING him from the dead and GIVEN him the PROMISE REWARD of IMMORTALITY that was ordained before the foundation of the world.) 2. As you have GIVEN him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as you have given him. (this is speaking of the second coming of Jesus where Jesus has been GIVEN th authority to give eternal life to all who have endure unto the end holding fast to their faith and obedience to the WORDS of Jesus that were sent down from heaven and given to Jesus to preach and teach to his fellow man. Jesus came to show us the FATHER and HIS WORDS.) 3. And this is life eternal, that they might know YOU the only true God, AND Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (the word of TRUTH clearly teaches us that we must have BOTH the SON and the Father in order to receive eternal life. Therefore is we do NOT believe that Jesus is the SON OF Almighty God the Father, then we are NOT truly believing and obey what Almighty God desires us to believe and thus we do NOT have the Father either. This is why God rejected his chosen people the Jews who rejected that Almighty God had a SON. The same is true of the Muslims who do NOT believe that God has a SON. ONLY Christians believe that Almighty God has a SON. The WHOLE foundation of Christianity is that we believe that Jesus is the SON OF Almighty God the Father. So why do some churches dogmatically demand that Jesus is the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF, when the word of TRUTH clearly teaches us that we must believe in BOTH? Jesus is saying, and THIS is ETERNAL LIFE that mankind must believe that YOU FATHER are the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God who sent your only begotten SON Jesus to die for their sins.) 4. I have glorified you on the earth: I have finished the WORK which you gave me to do. (in other words, Jesus is saying that he was that GOOD and FAITHFUL servant to do ALL that his God and Father led him to do so in the next verse Jesus is simply asking the Father for his reward of eternal life that was ordained from before the world was.) 5. And now, O Father, glorify you me with your OWN SELF with the glory which I had with you before the world was. 6. I have manifested your name unto the men which you gave me out of the world: yours they were, and you gave them me; and they have kept your word. ( Please notice that verse 5 is sandwiched between two verse where Jesus is basically saying I have don all you have led me to do so NOW do what you promised to do if I obey you to do all your will. Glorify me with your OWN SELF. Glorify me with the same IMMORTAL LIFE that your yourself have always possessed. As to verse 6 mankind will not be actually given TO Jesus UNTIL the SECOND COMING of Jesus. Even the wicked of mankind will be GIVEN to Jesus to break in pieces with a rod of iron, while ONLY the RIGHEOUS who are IN Jesus Christ will be GLORIFIED with the IMMORTALITY of Almighty God the Father who ONLY has always possessed immortality. John 5:26,27 clearly teaches us that Jesus was GIVEN IMMORTALITY by his Goad and Father AFTER Jesus FINISHED the works that the Father led him to do. Please read the study “John 5:18-JESUS MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD”) 7. Now they have KNOW that ALL THINGS whatsoever YOU HAVE GIVEN are OF YOU. 8. For I have given unto them the WORDS which YOU GAVE ME; and they have received them, and have known SURELY that I CAME OUT FROM YOU, and they have believed that you did send me. (the apostle of Jesus most definitely BELIEVED that the SPOKEN WORD that CAME OUT FROM Almighty God did indeed BRING Jesus INTO EXISTENCE by the WORD, the SPOKEN WORD being SENT from heaven down to the earth with the angel Gabriel who SPOKE the WORD of God to the virgin Mary and then when Mary AGREED saying BE it done ACCORDING to your WORD, then the WORD, the SPOKEN WORD was MADE or BECAME ALIVE in the womb of Mary to be BORN the Son of MAN who would be called the SON OF the HIGHEST other wise the disciples of Jesus would have never written and preach this MIRACYLOUS BIRTH of Jesus. Plain and simple Jesus ONLY preexisted in the MIND and PLAN of Almighty God who ORDAINED his COMING SON to BE brought into existence in the fulness of time. Jesus CAME OUT FROM the Father and was NOT Almighty God the FATHER HIMSELF any more that ALL of creation that CAME OUT FROM Almighty God the Father of ALL.) 9. I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which you have given me; for they are yours. 10. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. (everything Jesus is and has was GIVEN to him BY his God and Father the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God) 11. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to you. Holy Father, keep through your own name those whom you have given me, that they may be ONE, AS WE ARE. (Jesus is saying that he is leaving this world to ascend up to heaven to become ONE with the Father and he is praying that all believers will be KEPT unto that great and glorious day when we too shall be made ONE with the Father. The meaning of ONE here is speaking of being GLORIFIED with IMMORTALITY the same as Almighty God and NOT that we actually become one and the self same being as Almighty God the Father. Mormonism FALSELY teaches that we all shall PROGRESS to become God or many gods. Mormonism FALSELY teaches that Almighty God the Father was once a MAN who PROGRESSED to become Almighty God the Father. Please read the study “MORMONISM VERSES BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY!”) 12. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in you name: those that you gave me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. (some Christians who FALSELY teach that ALL of mankind will EVENTUALLY be SAVED argue that Judas was NOT LOST, but here in this verse Jesus says that Judas the son of perdition was lost. This FALSE teaching is called Universalism. Please read the study “IS UNIVERSALISM A SOUND BIBLICAL TEACHING?”) 13. And now come I to you; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have MY JOY fulfilled in themselves. (Jesus is speaking of the JOY of IMMORTALITY and being HIGHLY EXALTED to sit on his Father's throne at his Father's right hand. So Jesus is saying that he gave us this same PROMISE of JOY to receive ETERNAL LIFE in the world to come. Jesus is praying that we be not deceived so that this promise of eternal life will be FULFILLED IN US in the same way that Jesus is believing that the Father will GLORIFY him with this GLORY of eternal life that was ordained for him from before the world was.) 14. I have given them your word; and the world has hated them, because they are NOT of the world, EVEN AS I am not of the world. (this does NOT mean that we are ALIENS from another world, but rather that we are NOT of this present world of darkness and sin, because we OBEY the WORD of Almighty God and the WORDS of his SON Jesus who died for our sins to make us free from the bondage of sin. The world hates us because we preach AGAINST SIN and the darkness of this present world that blinds their eyes to the word of TRUTH. Jesus was NOT of this world the SAME WAY that WE are NOT of this world. This only difference is that Jesus became a MASTER of over coming sin to live his ENTIRE life WITHOUT sin. Whereas WE are still LEARNING. Please read the study “HOW TO LIVE YOUR LIFE FREE FROM SIN!”) 15. I pray NOT that you should take them out of the world, BUT that you should KEEP them FROM the EVIL. (You see Jesus was IN the WORLD, but Jesus was NOT OF the world, in that he kept himself FROM EVIL that was IN the world.) 16. They are NOT of the world, EVEN AS I am NOT of the world. (Some Christian churches DOGMATICALLY DEMAND that Jesus was PREEXISTED IN HEAVEN for ALL ENERNITY as God the SON, because Jesus said that he was NOT of the WORLD in John 8:23 “And he said unto them, You are from beneath; I am from above: you are of this world; I am not of this world.” , but yet here in this verse Jesus plainly states EVEN AS or in the SAME WAY that I am ABOVE and NOT of this WORLD so ALSO are YOU from ABOVE and NOT of this WORLD. What Jesus is saying is that WE as BELIEVERS follow the voice and words form ABOVE and we do NOT follow to voice of the god of this present WORLD.)
17. Sanctify them through your truth: your word is truth. 18. AS you have sent me into the world, EVEN SO have I ALSO sent them into the world. (Some Christian churches DOGMATICALLY DEMAND that Jesus was SENT DOWN FROM HEAVEN INTO the world by God the Father as a PREEXISTING God the SON who is CO EQUAL and CO ETERNAL with God the Father to be made a human being the Son of man and YET STILL REMAIN to be FULLY ALMIGHTY God and fully man at the same time. But yet the word of TRUTH clearly teaches us in this verse that in the SAME WAY that Almighty God SENT his SON Jesus into the world Jesus has ALSO SENT US INTO the world. So then, are we to believe that WE CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN AS WELL just like we are dogmatically taught is some churches that these same words in many other places in the Bible mean when they are speaking of JESUS being SENT INTO the world? NO! A thousand times NO! These words simple mean that Jesus and US are sent OUT into the world. These words have nothing whatsoever to do with a PREEXISTING Jesus up in heaven who was supposedly SENT DOWN FROM HEAVEN INTO the world. To ME the only way that I myself can rationally see Jesus preexisting is in the MIND and PLAN of Almighty God to one day in the fulness of time to BRING FORTH his only BEGOTTEN SON into the world by his SPOKEN WORD that was ORDAINED from BEFORE the foundation of the world) 19. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, (Jesus sanctified himself THROUGH the ETERNAL SPIRIT, Almighty God, the FATHER who DWELT IN his SON Jesus to EMPOWER his SON to live WITHOUT SIN. Jesus also used the word of TRUTH, the promises WRITTEN in God's word to defeat and over come our enemy Satan, the devil. Jesus did this to be the lamb without spot or blemish to free us from the bondage of sin. His atonement cleansed us from all of our pasts sins so that the Father could also come and DWELL IN US so that we could be endued with POWER from on high to do the SAME works that Jesus did through the FATHER who DWELT IN him.) that (or so that, or in order that) they ALSO might be sanctified through the truth. 20. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them ALSO which shall believe on me through their word; (in other words, Jesus is prayed this prayer for EVERY BELIEVER in Jesus Christ being the SON OF Almighty God the Father who was SENT and ANOINTED by his God and Father to die for the sins of the whole world so that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES shall NOT perish, but shall be GLORIFIED with ETERNAL LIFE in the world to come.) 21. That they all may be one; as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that you have sent me. (here in this verse we see that WE as believers are made to be ONE WITH Almighty God the Father is the SAME way the Jesus was saying that he was ONE with the Father in John 10:30, which is another verse used to try and prove that Jesus himself is THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God the FATHER, simply because Jesus said the words, “I and my FATHER are ONE”)Now if so be that this those words in John 10:30 prove that Jesus IS THE ALMIGHTY God, the these words of Jesus in John 17:21 also prove that WE as believers are ALMIGHTY God as well. These are the SAME exact Greek words that are translated as ONE in BOTH of the passages of scripture. Please read the study called “JOHN 10:30- I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE!” for a more in depth study on this subject of why the doctrine of the trinity is a FALSE teaching that took many centuries to develop and was never taught by Jesus nor his disciples) 22. And the GLORY which you GAVE me I HAVE GIVEN them; that (or so that) they may be one, even as we are one: (Jesus is speaking of the PROMISE of ETERNAL LIFE that the Father GAVE to Jesus and now Jesus has GIVEN us this SAME promise of GLORY even though we have not yet received our GLORY of ETERNAL LIFE as yet) 23. I in them, and you in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that you have sent me, and have loved them, as you have loved me. (this verse is speaking of our promised resurrection and being GLORIFIED with ETRERNAL LIFE at the second coming of Jesus. It is only then that the WORLD will KNOW that Jesus truly is the MESSIAH.) 24. Father, I will that they ALSO, whom you HAVE GIVEN me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my GLORY, which you HAVE GIVEN me (PAST tense and yet Jesus had NOT YET actually been GLORIFIED as yet): for (or BECAUSE) you loved me BEFORE the foundation of the world. (Jesus is speaking of his resurrection from the dead and his being GIVEN his new GLORIFIED immortal body of flesh and bone, which Jesus descend back down to the earth to show his disciples for forty days before Jesus ascended back up into heaven where he was before right after his resurrection. You see Jesus told Mary Magdalene NOT to touch hen BECAUSE he had NOT YET ASCENDED to his God and Father. BUT then later that same evening Jesus appeared to his disciples and asked them the TOUCH him to prove to then that he was NOT a SPIRIT of a GHOST, but rather that he had a BODY, a new GLORIFIED IMMORTAL BODY of flesh and bone.) 25. O righteous Father, the world has not known you: but I have known you, and these have known that you have sent me. (this teaches us that people can KNOW God without having preexisted in heaven with God from all eternity past. Jesus PERCEIVED from reading the scriptures and LISTENING to the voice of his God ad Father from above and little by little day by day INCREASED in wisdom and favor of God. Jesus came to understand that the scripture spoke of HIM. In other words, Jesus LEARNED to KNOW God and he TAUGHT his disciples to KNOW God as well.)
So then, all the verse that we have taken a CLOSER look at thus far have NOT proven without fail the DOCTRINE of the trinity where Jesus preexisted in heaven as God the SON for all eternity with Almighty God the Father and was CO EQUAL with Almighty God the Father. But rather the CONTEXT of every one of these verses along with the rest of God's word prove without fail that the doctrine of the trinity and the doctrine of the deity of Jesus are FALSE teachings, which need to be DRASTICALLY reformed and rewritten or thrown out and rejected altogether.
Now please read Psalm 89:19-27, which clearly teaches us that Almighty God himself is THE ROCK and God OF his SON Jesus.
Psalm 89:19-27.
“Then you (My God and My Father) spoke in VISION to your holy one (the Bible teaches us that Jesus separated himself to pray to his God and Father. And we are also told that it would take all the books in the world to tell of Jesus and even then all would not be told. So even though the New Testament does not specifically tell us of Jesus having a vision and what Jesus saw in that vision we still know that Almighty God spoke to his SON Jesus through visions and revelations by the Holy Spirit. So then Almighty God spoke to Jesus in a VISION), and said, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one CHOSEN OUT of the people. 20. I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him: (as in other places David is a SHADOW or a FIGURE or a PROPHECY or the coming Messiah, Jesus, the Son of Almighty God. In other words, through VISIONS and other means Almighty God REVEALED to Jesus that the scriptures spoke of HIM.) 21. With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him. 22. The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him. 23. And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him. 24. But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. 25. I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. 26. He (speaking of Jesus) shall cry unto me, You are MY father, MY God, and the ROCK of my salvation. (Jesus was saved from hell. God did not leave the soul of his Son Jesus in hell, but rather saved his soul alive by resurrecting his Son from the dead and giving his Son eternal life.) 27. Also I will make him my FIRSTBORN, higher than the kings of the earth.”
In verse 27 we clearly see that this passage of scripture is a PROPHECY of Jesus whom Almighty God will make to be his FIRSTBORN child. Jesus is described as being the FIRSTBORN of every creature in Colossians 1:15, the FIRSTBORN from the dead in Colossians 1:18, and the FIRSTBORN among MANY brethren in Romans 8:29. And Jesus is the only one whom the Bible teaches us that Almighty God HIGHLY EXALTED and gave a name about every other name to be made a King of kings and a Lord of lords. You can read these verses later, but for now the focus of this study is to determine to WHOM the ROCK of the Old Testament is referring. Is the ROCK speaking of YEHWEH the Almighty, or is the ROCK referring to Jesus? And if so be that the ROCK is referring to Jesus, then does this prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that Jesus IS THE ALMIGHTY God himself? In other words, does 1 Corinthians 10:4 prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that Jesus himself PREEXISTED? And if so be that Jesus himself is proven to have preexisted, then does this prove that Jesus himself is THE ALMIGHTY God? Here in Psalm 89 we can clearly and plainly see that Jesus is NOT the ROCK, but rather Jesus is calling HIS God and Father the ROCK of his own salvation. There are several places in the New Testament where Jesus did indeed fulfilled this prophecy by crying out to his God and Father calling Almighty God in MY God, MY God, why have your forsaken me in Matthew 27:46, touch me not, for I ascend to MY Father and your father, and to MY God and your God in John 20:17, and then in Revelation 3:12 we read where Jesus called Almighty God his God four times in that single verse, which to me makes it blatantly clear that Almighty God the Father is God over his Son Jesus.
“Him that overcomes will I (Jesus) make a pillar in the temple of MY God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of MY God, and the name of the city of MY God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from MY God: and I will write upon him my new name.”
Now some or the following verse clearly and plainly refer to Almighty God as being THE ROCK, as in, being a fortress or a defense to be trusted. Then in other verses in the Old Testament speaking of the rock that Moses smote with the rod of Aaron are most definitely referring to the coming Messiah who will give LIVING WATER to those who believe in him as the Son of Almighty God who died for their sins.
Exodus 17:1-6 speaks of the rock of Horeb that Almighty God himself stood before to bring forth the life giving water when Moses smote the rock. Numbers 20:1-13 speaks of the rock of Horeb that Moses was commanded to SPEAK to, but Moses smote the rock twice. Deuteronomy chapter 8 speaks of the rock or Horeb. Deuteronomy chapter 32 is speaking of Yehweh. 1 Samuel 2:2 is speaking of Yehweh. 2 Samuel chapter 22 is speaking of Yehweh. 2 Samuel 23:3 is speaking of Yehweh. Psalm 18 is a prophecy of Jesus who is speaking to HIS God as being his ROCK. Psalm 28 is a prophecy of Jesus crying out to his ROCK. Psalm 31 is a prophecy of Jesus calling upon his ROCK for strength. Now some INTERPRET verse 10 to mean that the person speaking hear could not be Jesus because this person sinned. But if you read this Psalm carefully you will see that men were seeking to take this mans life. Did not Jesus PRAY in the garden for strength right before he surrendered himself to be crucified? Did take Jesus freely take upon OUR sins as his OWN when he bore OUR sins upon the cross? Well this Hebrew word that is translated as iniquity carries that meaning of looking at the PUNISHMENT of sin. So another was to communicate verse 10 would be to say, my strength fail because of the punishment that awaits me. Psalm 42 is speaking of God being the rock. Psalm 61 is speaking of God being the rock higher than I. Psalm 62 is speaking of God as being our only rock. Psalm 72 is a prophecy of Jesus calling out to his rock.
Psalm 78 is the rock in the wilderness that was broken for the people of Israel. They remembered that Almighty God was their rock. It is not so much the rock itself, but what the rock provided for the people. What I mean by this is that Almighty God himself created the rock, created the water stored in or beneath the rock, then provided a way for the rock to be broken in order to bring forth water to give LIFE to SAVE the his people. Please read the study “Titus 2:13 WHO IS OUR SAVIOR GOD OR JESUS?”.
Psalm 92:15 is speaking of Yehweh. Psalm 94 is speaking of Almighty God Yehweh. Psalm 95 is speaking of Yehweh.
Psalm 105 teaches us that Almighty God sent Moses who smote or hit the rock, but it was Almighty God himself who was the one who opened the rock to gush forth waters like rivers.
Psalm 114 again teaches us that is was Almighty God himself who turned the rock into standing water.
Isaiah 17 is speaking of God being the rock. Isaiah 48:21 teaches us again that God is the one who caused the water to come out of the rock.
Jeremiah 23:29 likens God's word to a hammer that breaks the rock.
In 1 Peter 2:8 and Romans 9:33 Jesus is called a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense to those who REJECT him as being the MESSIAH that give to those who BELIEVE upon him LIVING WATER to drink. So in the same way that Jesus is MADE to be both Lord and Christ, RASIDED UP by HIS God be a savior of the people, HIGHLY EXALTED by HID God and Father to be MADE a King of kings, Jesus is MADE to be “A” rock that was broken so that whosoever DRINKS the water of LIFE that is brought forth by Almighty God from the rock shall LIVE and not perish. In other words, the whole word of God clearly teaches us that the literal physical “ROCK” in the wilderness was a TYPE or a FIGURE of the coming MESSIAH, Jesus, the CHRIST, whom Almighty God himself sent and gave to be broken for our sin so that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES that Jesus is the Son of Almighty God shall not perish by shall have eternal life. So then, while 1 Corinthians 10:4 says that ROCK is CHRIST and the Old Testament says that THE ROCK is Almighty God HIMSELF does NOT dogmatically mean without fail that Jesus is THE ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF as some FALSELY conclude. NOR does this mean that Jesus PREEXISTED as the SECOND person of the trinity as some falsely teach. But rather this verse simple means that the verses in the Old Testament speaking of the literal physical rock that was broken and brought forth water was a TYPE or a FIGURE that was a PROPHECY of the coming Messiah, Jesus, the CHRIST, who would become obedient to do all the will of his God and Father to be HIGHLY EXALTED and given a name above all names so that every knee shall bow and confess that Jesus Christ in the anointed one to the glory of Almighty God the Father. In truth every thing that Jesus was, is, or ever shall be, was GIVEN to him by his God and Father the ALMIGHTY. So the living water that Jesus will give to all the faithful believers was COMMITTED unto him to do so by his God and Father who is over ALL including his SON Jesus. Again I do not teach these truths to bring Jesus down, but rather to show YOU who you truly are being IN CHRIST Jesus. I teach the HUMANITY of Jesus so you can see that the eternal Spirit, Almighty God the Father himself DWELT IN his SON Jesus and that this SAME eternal Spirit, Almighty God the Father HIMSELF now DWELLS IN YOU as a BELIEVER in Jesus being the SON OF Almighty God the Father. Please read 1 John 4:6-16.
“We are of God: he that knows God hears us; he that is not of God hears not us. Hereby know we the spirit of TRUTH, and the spirit of error. 7. Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loves is born of God, and knows God. 8. He that loves not knows not God; for God is love. 9. In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God SENT his only begotten SON into the world, that we might live through him. 10. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and SENT his SON to be the propitiation for our sins. 11. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12. No man has seen God at any time (because God is SPIRIT and he is INVISIBLE so that NO man can EVER SEE him). If we love one another, God DWELLS IN us, and his love is perfected in us. 13. Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and HE IN US, BECAUSE he (Almighty God the Father) has GIVEN us of his Spirit. (this verse along with many others verse clearly teaches us that Almighty God and the Holy Spirit are ONE and the SELF SAME BEING. So we have Almighty God the FATHER who IS the Holy Spirit and we have God's SON Jesus.) 14. And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world. 15. Whosoever shall CONFESS that Jesus is the SON of God, God DWELLS IN him, and he in God. (No where in the word of TRUTH, the Holy Bible, have I myself ever found that we are commanded or taught to CONFESS or BELIEVE that Jesus HIMSELF IS THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God. But here we are CLEARLY and PLAINLY taught to believe and CONFESS that Jesus is the SON of Almighty God the Father.) 16. And we have known and believed the love that God has to us. God is love; and he that dwells in love dwells in God, and God IN him.”
And if so be that God is IN US, then most assuredly God is WITH us. And since God is with us he must surely be for us. And since God is for us, then who can be against us. Jesus said that WORKS that he did YOU shall do ALSO. Almighty God the Father is our ROCK and Jesus his SON his our sure FOUNDATION. So in conclusion I my self do not see that 1 Corinthians 10:4 proves without a doubt that Jesus preexisted for all eternity without a beginning as God the SON the second person of the trinity. Let us move on to the next verse in question.
================================= VERSE # 10.
DOES MICAH 5:2
“WHOSE GOINGS FORTH HAVE BEEN FROM OLD, FROM EVERLASTING”
PROVE THAT JESUS PREEXITED?
Some Christians use Micah 5:2 to try and prove without fail that Jesus preexisted as the SON OF Almighty God for ALL ETRNITY as God the SON without ever having a BEGINNING. Other Christians, who have understood the the SON OF God was BEGOTTEN to mean without a doubt that Jesus as the SON OF God did INDEED have a BEGINNING, but the ORIGIN of eth BEGINNING of the Son of God was of OLD from EVERLASTING. In other words, some Christians believe that Jesus, the SON OF Almighty God di INDEED have a BEGINNING, but his BEGINNING was NOT when Jesus was BORN of the VIRGIN Mary, but rather the INITIAL BEGETTING of Jesus was so far in eternity past that you might as well say that Jesus the Son of God has existed forever and the use Micah 5:2 to try and prove this teaching.
So then, which teaching is the TRUTH of the whole word of God? Is either of these two teachings a sound Biblical teaching that agrees with ALL of God's word? Or is there yet a third teaching that perhaps is even a more sound Biblical teaching than either of these two above teachings? Let us begin this study in God's word by reading Micah 5:2 with the FOCUS on the words that those who teach the above two doctrines EPHASIZE to try as support their doctrine.
“But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings FORTH HAVE BEEN have been from of old, FROM EVERLASTING.”
Then they present their argument that MAN can NOT SAVE himself and that ONLY God can SAVE US. THEREFORE Jesus HAD to BE GOD in order for him to be our SAVIOR. Then they quote some verses which SEEMS on the surface to support their point of view. They often quote Isaiah 43:11 first to show without a doubt the Almighty God ALONE is our SAVIOR and that we have NO OTHER savior but the ALMIGHTY.
“I, even I, am the LORD (YHWH or the ALMIGHTY God); and beside me there is NO savior.”
Then they quote a verse from the NEW Testament where our SAVIOR is clearly speaking of Jesus the SON OF Almighty God the Father. They often quote Titus chapter 2 verse 10 and verse together to show that Jesus is our SAVIOR, so therefore Jesus IS THE ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF in the FLESH being FULL Almighty God and fully man at the same time.
“Not purloining, but showing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in all things. 13. Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious APPEARING of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ; (speaking of the SECOND COMING of Jesus) 14. Who GAVE HIMSELF for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
Those who teach that Jesus preexisted as the SON OF Almighty God from all eternity past whether God's SON had a BEGINNING or whether God's SON never had a BEGINNING both claim that Jesus IS THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF, becasus in the OLD Testament it is clearly seen that ONLY Almighty God Yehweh is our SAVIOR and that there is NO OTHER SAVIOR other than Almighty God HIMSELF and yet in the NEW Testament Jesus, the SON OF Almighty God the Father is said to be our SAVIOR. Therefore they conclude the Jesus the SON OF Almighty God IS THE ONE TRUE GOD who ONLY is our SAVIOR. Then SOME Christians conclude based upon the PREVIOUS conclusion that since Jesus, the Son of Almighty, God IS ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF, then the SON OF Almighty God had to have ALWAYS EXISTED for all eternity WITHOUT ever having a BEGINNING. But yet OTHER Christians realize that that conclusion can NOT be true, BECAUSE the terms “SON”and “BEGOTTEN” demand that the SON OF Almighty God the Father HAVE a BEGINNING. BUT WHEN was the BEGINNING of Jesus the SON OF Almighty God the Father being BROUGHT FORTH take place? This is where Micah 5:2 comes into play. You see, some Christians read the phrase, “FROM EVERLASTING” and conclude that the ORIGIN of Jesus being brought FORTH had to be from ETERNITY PAST, because Micah 5:2 says, WHOSE goings FORTH were of from OLD, FROM EVERLSTING. Therefore some conclude that Jesus has always preexisted as the SON OF Almighty God the Father FROM all ETERNITY past.
But is this TRULY what this verse is teaching us that Jesus was begotten of God in ETERNITY past? So the question now becomes: #1. Did Jesus the SON OF Almighty God ALWAYS exist as GOD the SON, the SECOND person of the TRINTY without ever having a BEGINNING as the doctrine of the trinity teaches dogmatically demanding that Jesus is CO ETERNAL with God the Father, where neither the Father nor his Son had a BEGINNING, but have ALWAYS existed as IMMORTAL beings. The doctrine of the trinity also teaches that Jesus, the SON OF Almighty God the Father is CO EQUAL with God the Father where neither is greater than nor less than the other. OR #2. Was Jesus the SON OF Almighty God the Father BEGOTTEN OF God in ETERINTY PAST? OR #3. Was Jesus BEGOTTEN as the SON of God WHEN the Word was MADE FLESH and BORN of the VIRGIN Mary?
Let us now take a CLOSER look at Micah 5:2 being LEFT in the CONTEXT of where it is found to see what this verse is TRULY teaching us in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of Almighty God the Father. Micah 5:1-6.
“Now gather yourself in troops, O daughter of troops: he has laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel (The judge of Israel here is speaking of Jesus the long awaited coming King of Israel. Please see Micah chapter 4.) with a rod upon the cheek (this is a prophecy of the long await coming King of the Jews their MESSIAH. Matthew 27:29,30 is one of the fulfillment of this prophecy of Jesus who is smote on the cheek with a reed. “And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand [the symbol of a ruler]: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews! 30. And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head.” The gospel of Luke says that the smote him on his face.). 2. But you, Bethlehem Ephratah, though you be little among the thousands of Judah (speaking of the little town of Bethlehem where Jesus was BORN of the virgin Mary), yet OUT of YOU shall HE (speaking of the COMING SON OF God to BE BORN in Bethlehem SHALL he, Jesus) COME FORTH UNTO ME that is to be RULER in Israel (this wording is important to the TRUE meaning of this verse. In other words, this COMING FROTH UNTO God is speaking of the FIRST COMING of Jesus when the Word of God came down from heaven by the angel Gabriel to be SPOKEN to the virgin Mary. And when Mary agreed to the SPOKEN Word of Almighty God the Word, the SPOKEN word that was WITHIN God from the beginning was now in the fullness of the time MADE to be ALIVE in the womb of Mary to be BORN the Son of MAN who was to be called the SON of the HIGHEST); whose (speaking of the yet coming SON OF God) GOINGS FORTH (please notice that the GOINGS forth are PLURAL speaking of BOTH the FIRST and the SECOND COMINGS of Jesus. In other words, BOTH of the PROPHESIED GOINGS FORTH of Jesus, the SON OF God and COMING KING of Israel) have been from of OLD, from everlasting. 3. THEREFORE will he give them UP (or BECAUSE the Jews reject the FIRST GOING FORTH of Jesus as the coming King and deliverer and had there Messiah crucified Almighty God gave his chosen people UP. That is to say blindness in part has come over the eyes of Israel), UNTIL the time that she which travails has brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.(this is speaking of the time of great tribulation when Israel shall travail in pain until the cry out to be saved. God's people Israel will travail as a woman in birth, until their Messiah is BROUGHT FORTH speaking of the SECOND GOING FORTH of Jesus.) 4. And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for NOW shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. 5. And this MAN shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he (the Assyrian, the ANTICHRIST) shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men.
So then, from the CONTEXT you can clearly see that this verse in question Micah 5:2 is PROPHECY of the GOINGS forth of the coming Messiah that had it ORIGIN from OLD, from ANCIENT times speaking of before the foundation of the world. The Bible teaches us that the LAMB was SLAIN from BEFORE the foundation of the world, but this does NOT LITERALLY mean that Jesus was crucified and died for or sin BEFORE mankind was every created. But rather the ORIGIN of God's PLAN of salvation was of from OLD, FROM EVERLASTNG or from ANCIENT times. What this verse is TRULY teaching us is that the ANCESTRY or the LINAGE from which Jesus would be BORN was ordained by God in ancient times and NOT that the SON OF God was ACTUALLY BEGOTTEN in ancient times. Please read Micah 5:2 from some other translations and you will clearly see what I mean. Here is Micah 5:2 from the Bible in Basic English.
“And you, Beth-lehem Ephrathah, the least among the FAMILIES of Judah, out of you one WILL COME to me who is to be ruler in Israel; whose going out has been PURPOSED from time past, from the eternal days.”
From this translation it is made clear to us that the goings forth of Jesus were PURPOSED from time past before these goings forth were to take place, from eternal days. Now whie the Hebrew words translated as eternal days can mean from everlasting or from eternity past these words also mean from ANCIENT days, from OLD times, and from the beginning of the world.
Here is Micah 5:2 from the Common English Bible.
“As for you, Bethlehem of Ephrathah, though you are the least significant of Judah's forces, one who is to be a ruler in Israel on my behalf WILL COME OUT from you. His ORIGIN is from remote times, from ANCIENT DAYS.”
From this translation along with the other translation that we have already looked at we clearly see that the ORIGIN of Jesus the Messiah WILL COME OUT of the family line of Judah, which was PURPOSED to BE from long ago from ANCIENT DAYS.
Here is Micah 5:2 from the Complete Jerusalem Bible.
“But you, Beit-Lechem near Efrat, so small among the CLANS (or FAMILIES) of Y'hudah, out of you WILL COME FORTH to me the future ruler of Isra'el, whose ORIGINS (plural meaning the TWO GOINGS FORTH of Jesus the coming King of Israel speaking of the FIRST and SECOND COMINGS of the Messiah) are far in the past, back in ANCIENT TIMES.”
Again the two coming of the Messiah were PURPOSED or were ORDAINED in ANCIENT TIMES but not without fail from all eternity past.
Here is Micah 5:2 from the Good News Translation.
“The Lord says, Bethlehem Ephrathah, you are one of the smallest towns in Judah, but out of you I will bring a ruler for Israel, whose FAMILY LINE goes back to ancient times.”
From this translation we can see that the ORIGIN of the Messiah is speaking of his ANCESTRY or his FAMILY LINE being out of Judah.
Here is Micah 5:2 from the New International Reader Bible.
“The LORD says, "Bethlehem, you might not be an important town in the NATION of Judah. But OUT of YOU WILL COME a ruler over Israel for me. His FAMILY LINE goes back to the early years of your nation. It goes all the way back to days of long ago." Bethlehem was also called Ephrathah.”
This verse clearly shows us that the ORIGIN of eth Messiah or the King that is PROPHESIED TO COME WILL COME OUT of the FAMILY LINE of the nation of Judah and his ORIGIN was PURPOSED all the way back to days of long ago.
Here is Micah 5:2 from the Young's Literal Translation.
“And thou, Beth-Lehem Ephratah, Little to be among the chiefs of Judah! From thee to Me he cometh forth -- to be ruler in Israel, And his COMINGS FORTH [are] of old, From the days of antiquity.”
From this translation we can see that this verse is speaking of the FIRST AND SECOND COMINGS of the Messiah and that his ORIGIN or his FAMILY LINE will be from JUDAH. Now I would like you to read Isaiah 13:6-10, which is a PROPHECY of the SECOND GOING FORTH of Messiah, or SECOND COMING of the Jesus to execute the wrath of Almighty God.
“Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. 7 Therefore shall all hands be faint , and every man's heart shall melt : 8 And they shall be afraid : pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth : they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. 9. Behold, the day of the LORD comes, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. 10. For the STARS of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the SUN shall be darkened IN his GOING FORTH, and the MOON shall not cause her light to shine.”
Can you not see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, that Micah 5:2 is speaking of the GOINGS forth of Jesus have been PURPOSED or ORDAINED from ANCIENT times for the Messiah's ANCESTRY or FAMILY LINE to be out of Judah and NOT that the SON OF Almighty God was BEGOTTEN in eternity past. The Hebrew word translated as GOINGS FORTH also means ORIGIN speaking of ANCESTRY, FAMILIY LINE or DESCENT. So I myself must conclude that Micah 5:2 is NOT speaking of Jesus ACTUALLY and LITERALLY being BEGOTTEN by Almighty God in eternity past, but rather this verse is speaking of the ORIGIN of Jesus being OUT of the ANCESTRY or the FAMILY LINE of JUDAH and that his GOINGS FORTH were ORDAINED by his God and Father from ANCIENT time even before the foundation of the world. This interpretation AGREES with the interpretation that Jesus PREXISTED as the WORD WITHIN Almighty God who BROUGHT FORTH his SPOKEN WORD in PROPHECY to ONE DAY bring forth his Son in the fullness of the time when the Word was MADE alive in the womb of the virgin Mary to be BORN or be BEGOTTEN as the Son of MAN and called the SON OF the HIGHEST. Let us take a look at the next verse that is used to try and prove the doctrine of the trinity and that Jesus preexisted as the SON OF Almighty God from all eternity WITHOUT ever having a BEGINNING. Colossians 1:15-17 is often used by BOTH sides of this controversy to try and support there point of view.
====================================
VERSE #11.
DOES COLOSSIANS 1:15-17
“JESUS IS BEFORE ALL THINGS”
PROVE THAT JESUS PREEXISTED?
This passage of scripture is actually used by BOTH sides of the controversy to try and prove on one hand that Jesus has always existed as God the SON, who was WITHOUT BEGINNING, and on the other hand it is used by the other side of the argument to try and support that Jesus did indeed have a BEGINNING by being the FIRST BORN of EVERY creature. Let us begin this study in God's word by reading this verse in question that can be INTERPRETED an a number of ways, then we will take a closer look at this passage of scripture word by word in order to see which of these different ways of interpretation of this passage of scripture AGREES with the REST of God's word WITHOUT any contradictions? Colossians 1:15-17.
“Who is the image of the invisible God, the FIRSTBORN OF EVERY CREATURE: 16. For BY him were ALL THING CREATED, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: ALL THINGS were created BY him, and FOR him:
So then, let us read some of the following INTERPRETATIONS that have been concluded by different groups of Christians as to what this passage of scripture means. Now we all can know and understand that WHATEVER INTERPRETATION that is concluded as to what this passage of scripture means then that INTERPRETATION MUST AGREE with the REST of God's word WITHOUTT ANY CONTRADICTIONS.
INTERPRETATION #1. Those who teach the doctrine of the trinity dogmatically demand that this passage of scripture without fail means that Jesus preexisted for all eternity AS the SON OF Almighty God the Father being the SECOND person of the TRINITY, God the SON who is CO EQUAL with the Father in every way where neither is less than nor greater than the other, and CO ETERNAL with Almighty God the Father where both the Father and the Son have always existed for all eternity and neither the Father nor the Son had a BEGINNING.
INTERPRETATION #2. Some Christians, who can NOT ACCEPT that doctrine of the trinity, which falsely teaches that Jesus the SON OF Almighty God the Father is EQUAL to HIS God and Father, because this CO EQUAL teaching of the doctrine of the trinity does NOT AGREE with the REST of God's word, teach that Jesus preexisted AS the SON OF Almighty God the Father being his DIVINE SON who has always existed from all eternity WITHOUT BEGINNING, and God created all things THROUGH his Son Jesus.
INTERPRETATION #3. Other Christians, who can NOT ACCEPT the doctrine of the trinity, which falsely teaches that Jesus is co equal AND co eternal with Almighty God, because the mere terms of Jesus being the SON OF the ALMIGHTY God the FATHER demand that Jesus as the SON have a BEGINNING. Therefore they teach that the ONLY way Jesus could had PREEXISTED was as the Word. Now under this line of reasoning in interpretation #3 there are TWO DIFFERENT ways that Christians INTERPRET Jesus preexisting as the Word. The first interpretation of Jesus preexisting as the Word will be considered as INTERPRETATION #3 and the second way of interpreting Jesus preexisting as the Word will be explained under INTERPRETAION #4. So then, ONE interpretation of Jesus preexisting as the Word teach that in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH THE God, and the Word was God, which they INTERPRET as meaning that the Word was a SEPARATE SPIRIT being who was WITH THE God for all eternity. And then in the fullness of time this DIVINE SEPARATE Spirit being called the Word came down out of heaven down to the earth and was INCARNATED as the Son of Almighty God to be the DIVINE SON OF God. But yet SOME Christians, who do indeed do NOT believe in the doctrine of the TRINITY and therefore believe that Jesus could have ONLY preexisted as the Word, who THEY dogmatically demand to be a SEPARATE Spirit being who has always existed WITH God in the beginning, still yet dogmatically demand that Jesus if FULLY ALMIGHTY God in the flesh and fully man at the same time. In other words, some Christians, who do NOT believe in the doctrine of the trinity, but they still yet believe that Jesus, while he was on the earth that he was the DIVINE Son of God. That is to say, the Word being INCARNATED in the flesh means that Jesus must without fail be the DIVINE Son of God. And therefore being DIVINE or being DEITY, then Jesus must without fail be FULLY ALMIGHTY God in the flesh and fully man at the SAME time.
INTERPRETATION #4. Then there are some Christians, who believe that Jesus PREEXISTED as the Word of God BEFORE the foundation of the world. But rather that the Word existing as a SEPARATED Spirit being they believe that the Word has always existed WITHIN THE ONE TRUE and ONLY WISE God.
And again there may be other interpretations as well, but any other interpretation will FIT in one of the above FOUR different interpretations with perhaps some slightly different points of view.
Now with that being said I want to begin this particular study in God's word by FIRST giving you, the reader, and seeker of the truth, the INTERPRETATION that I myself have conclude from all the evidence, and then I will give you all the evidence from the WHOLE word of God explaining how I came to believe what I believe. So then here is what I personally have come to believe that Colossians 1:15-17 means in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of Almighty God the Father.
“Who (speaking of Jesus, the SON OF Almighty God the Father,) is the IMAGE OF the invisible God (Jesus being the IMAGE OF his God and Father demands that Jesus NOT be ONE and the SELF SAME BEING as the FATHER, the INVISIBLE God), the FIRSTBORN OF EVERY CREATURE: (the word FIRST BORN here means TWO things. FIRST this word means that Jesus was the FIRST creature to be BORN of BROUGHT INTO existence of EVERY creature meaning without fail that Jesus being MADE, CREATED, BORN or brought into existence where this creature had never existed before was PRIOR to EVERY OTHER creature. SECOND this word means that Jesus is the FIRST, as in, Jesus is the HIGHEST of every creature that Almighty God has MADE, CREATED, BEGOTTEN, or brought into existence where this creature had never existed before. Either way this verse in TRUTH clearly teaches us that this CREATURE that is referring to Jesus did indeed have a BEGINNING. The questions now becomes, WHEN was the BEGINNING of the CREATURE that Almighty God brought forth into existed where this CREATURE Jesus was BOTH FIRST, as in, PRIOR to EVERY other creature, AND was ALSO FIRST, as in, Jesus being the HIGHEST creations over all the others of God's creation? Now those who teach INTERPRETATION #1, INTERPRETATION #2, and INTERPRETATION #3 ALL dogmatically demand that the WHEN Jesus was BEGOTTEN be without fail in all eternity past BEFORE the foundation of the world, or BEFORE all of CREATION. And they REASON and demand that it MUST be that Jesus preexisted for all eternity, because HOW could Jesus be the CREATOR and create ALL THINGS if Jesus was not BEGOTTEN from all eternity? Again please keep in mind that to some Christians, this phrase, “Who being the FIRST BORN of EVERY CREATURE dogmatically means that Jesus never had a BEGINNING!” Anyway the main focus right now is HOW can Jess be the CREATOR to create ALL THINGS if so be that Jesus did NOT exist for all eternity or at least preexist in eternity past BEFORE creation began? Well the answer is quite simple! You see my dear brothers and sister in our Lord Jesus Christ, the CREATURE that is being spoken of here in Colossians 1:15-17 here is The NEW CREATION of Almighty God. The term FIRST BORN is speaking of the RESURRECTION of the dead where Jesus was the FIRST CREATURE to EVER inherit ETERNAL LIFE. The very CONTEXT of this verse in question CLEARLY and PLAINLY teaches us that Jesus is the FIRSTBORN from the DEAD in the very next verse Colossians 1:18, “And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the BEGINNING, the FISRTBORN FROM THE DEAD; that [or so that, or IN ORDER THAT] in all things he might have the PREEMINENCE.” The word “PREEMINENCE” means to be ABOVE all others. In other words, Jesus was HIGHLY EXALTED to become a God over all of the creation of Almighty God the Father only AFTER Jesus as the Son of MAN became obedient unto death on the cross to redeem WHOSOVER believes IN him so that ALL THEY who are IN him should become JOINT HEIRS with the FIRST BORN of EVERY other NEW CREATURE IN Jesus Christ. Romans 8:29 teaches us that Jesus is the FIRST BORN AMONG many BRETHREN.)
16. For (or BECUASE) BY him (or because IN him, or BECAUSE OF him, or on ACCOUNT OF him) were ALL THINGS (were ALL THEY, speaking of the NEW CREATURES who are IN Jesus) CREATED (in other words, the LITERAL Greek reads as follows, “that IN him IS CREATED the ALL or the ALL or the THEY who are IN him IS CREATED), that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: ALL THINGS were created BY him, and FOR him: (the ALL things is speaking of the ALL WHO are IN Jesus Christ or BY the MEANS of Jesus ALL who are or will be NEW CREATURES were or have been CREATED FOR, or TOWARD, or INTO Jesus meaning that this was the GOAL or the purpose that Jesus died fro our sins and went BEFORE us so that we shall be LIKE HIM.) 17. And he is BEFORE ALL THINGS (meaning that Jesus is OVER not only ALL the WHO that are found to be IN him, but also that Jesus has been HIGHLY EXALTED to be OVER the angels as well), and BY him ALL THINGS CONSISTS. (the LITERAL Greek of verse 17 read as follows. “ And he is before or OVER ALL and the ALL IN him has together STOOD or has cohesion” in other words, Jesus is OVER ALL who have become NEW CREATURES being IN him and we are made ONE with Jesus because we have STOOD or we have OVER COME with him.)”
So to me, I clearly see this passage of scripture speaking of the yet COMING world that Almighty God the Father MADE POSSIBLE through his SON Jesus where ALL authority and power is GIVEN to Jesus by his God and Father to rule and reign over all the creation of Almighty God during the 1000 year reign of Jesus. This INTERPRETAION AGREES with Ephesians 1:15-23
“Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith IN the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, 16. Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; 17. That the GOD OF our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory (this verse is one of many that clearly and plainly teaches us that Jesus is NOT the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God, because the SON OF God has a GOD who is OVER him and that one true and only ALMIGHTY God is the FATHER. In other words, Jesus was the IMAGE of his God and Father.), may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18. The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his INHERITENCE in the saints, 19. And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe (or who are IN Jesus), according to the working of his mighty power, 20. Which he wrought in Christ (or which Almighty God brought to pass IN his Son the ANOINTED ONE whom he made to be both Lord and Christ), when he (Almighty God the Father) raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21. Far ABOVE ALL principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22. And has put all things (or has made Jesus to be Kings over all his SUBJECTS speaking of his enemies that will be taught of the Lord during the 1000 year reign of Jesus) under his feet, and GAVE him to be the HEAD OVER all things to the church (or AND the Father has made his SON Jesus to be the head over all the called out ones), 23. Which is his body, the fulness of him that fills all in all.”
And both of these passages of scripture, the verse is question in Colossians 1:15-17 and this one here in Ephesians 3:15-23 AGREE with Hebrews 1:2.
“God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2. Has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he has appointed (or whom his God and Father has MADE) heir of all things, by whom (or on account of whom, because of whom, for whom. For the sake of whom) also he made the worlds (the ages, this present world and the worlds or ages to come); 3. Who being the brightness of his glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE of his person (again Jesus being in the IMAGE of Almighty God the Father clearly and plainly teaches us that Jesus is NOT Almighty God HIMSELF in the flesh being FULLY ALMIGHTY God and fully man at the SAME TIME. But rather Jesus being in the express IMAGE of his God and Father means that the WORKS that Jesus did through the power f the eternal Spirit who DWELT in him shows us the true nature and character of the one true and only Almighty God the Father), and upholding all things by the word of his power (or also carrying on together with the all declaring the ability of him), when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;”
All three of these verses are speaking of the world yet to COME that was made POSSIBLE by the ATONEMENT that Jesus the SON OF Almighty God made for all of mankind so that WHOSOEVER of any person whatsoever who BELIEVES IN Jesus as the Messiah shall be saved or forgiven of all their past sins so that the SAME eternal Spirit can DWELL IN them to empower the BELIEVER to OVER COME sin in order to have the right to obtain eternal life in the world to come. Now for ME, I myself must conclude that INTERPRETATION #4 is the only SOUND BIBLICAL interpretation that agree with the whole word of God without having any contradictions. Here again is the interpretation that I myself personally choose.
INTERPRETATION #4. Then there are some Christians, who believe that Jesus PREEXISTED as the Word of God BEFORE the foundation of the world. But rather that the Word existing as a SEPARATED Spirit being they believe that the Word has always existed WITHIN THE ONE TRUE and ONLY WISE God. In other words, I and many other Christians believe that Jesus PREEXISTED ONLY as the SPOKEN WORD of Almighty God as the PLAN and WILL of God and therefore Jesus did NOT come into ACTUAL literal existence UNTIL the SPOKEN WORD of God was MADE ALIVE in the womb of Mary and was BORN or BEGOTTEN of God as the Son of MAN nine months later. Then in the FULLNESS of time God ANOINTED his SON Jesus when Almighty God the Father began to DWELL IN his SON at his baptism in water by John the baptist. To say this another way, the Word has always existed WITHIN Almighty God BEFORE God ever began creating. And God created all things BY his SPOKEN WORD that was WITHIN HIMSELF being his THOUGHTS and PLANS to one day bring forth into existence where that never existed before EXCEPT in the MIND and the PLAN of God. You see the LITERAL translation of John 1:1 says,
“In beginning was the SAYING ans the SAYING was WITHIN THE God, and God was the SAYING.”
Also please consider the LITERAL translation of Exodus 3:14, where God say, “I AM THAT I AM”, which LITERALLY means that God is saying,
“I SHALL BECOME what or who I AM BECOMING”
Everything and everyone that Almighty God created were created by the SPOKEN WORD of Almighty God himself including his SON Jesus, who was brought into existence when God sent his WORD down from Heaven to be SPOKEN by his angel Gabriel to the VIRGIN Mary. And then when Mary AGREED to the SPOKEN WORD saying BE it DONE unto me ACCORDING to your WORD, then the SPOKEN word was MADE to become living flesh in the womb of Mary to be BORN the Son of MAN.
To me Acts 2:22-38, the first sermon preached by the apostle Peter clearly teaches us that the doctrine of the trinity is a FLASE teaching and therefore should be rejected.
“You men of Israel, HEAR these WORDS; Jesus of Nazareth, a MAN approved of God among you BY miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as you yourselves also know: (Jesus said in John 5:19 and John 10:14 that he could OF HIMSELF do NOTHING and that the Father IN him did the WORKS.) 23. Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God (or God bringing forth his SON into the world by his WORD has always had this in his mind and plan even before the foundation of the world to be the LAMB of God to take away the sins of the world), you have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24. Whom God has raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. (because God has SPOKEN it to COME to pass and everything that God prophesies in his word shall come to pass.) 25. For David speaks concerning him (Jesus), I (Jesus reading and understanding that the scripture SPOKE of HIM being the prophesied coming Messiah that was to come. I Jesus) FORESAW the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 26. Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27. Because you (MY God and MY Father) will not leave my soul in hell, neither will you suffer your Holy One to see corruption. 28. You have made known to me the WAYS of life; (or you my God and Father have TAUGHT me how to receive ETERNAL LIFE) you shall make me full of JOY with your countenance.(or you my God and my father shall GLORIFY me with your OWN SELF with the GLORY that you have promised me from before the foundation of the world TEACHING me that you WORD, you written word is speaking of ME as being your elect one whom you have chosen to be your servant to die for the sin of the world.) 29. Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us unto this day. 30. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins (speaking of the loins and linage of David), according to the flesh, he (Almighty God) would raise up Christ (his ANOINTED ONE whom he has GIVEN ALL POWER and AUTHORITY) to sit on his throne; 31. He (David being a prophet and an inspired writer of God's word) seeing this before spoke (or wrote) of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32. This Jesus has God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33. Therefore being by the right hand of God EXALTED, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he has shed forth this, which you now see and hear. (or after Jesus became obedient unto death on the cross his God and Father reward his SON Jesus with the PROMISE JOY of ETERNAL LIFE, being HIGHLY EXALTED to the HIGHEST position second only to his God and Father and also has RECEIVED that PROMISE of pouring out or sending the Holy Spirit of the Father along WITH his Father which the Jews were witnessing by seeing and hearing.) 34. For David is NOT ascended into the heavens: but he said himself (in other words, Paul is explaining that many things that David himself said were in TRUTH speaking of the coming Messiah Jesus that was PROPHESIED to come by the SPOKEN WORD of Almighty God), The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit you on my right hand, 35. Until I make your foes your footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God has MADE that same Jesus, whom you have crucified, BOTH Lord and Christ. (every thing that Jesus is or that Jesus has was GIVEN TO him BY HIS God and Father the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God who ALONE is the FATHER) 37. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? (or what shall we do to be saved? Please read the study “HOW CAN I BE SAVED?” for the basic steps that one must take in order to be saved with the promise that they will KNOW and be ASSURED that they are TRULY SAVED never doubting again of whether or not that they are saved.) 38. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
So then, I myself must conclude that Colossians 1:15-17 does NOT prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that Jesus preexisted for all eternity WITHOUT ever having a BEGINNING as the SON OF God being God the SON the so called SECOND person of the trinity. To ME, I clearly see that the whole word of God teaches us that the SON OF God did indeed HAVE a BEGINNING and that the SON OF Almighty God the Father is NOT EQUAL with HIS God and Father. The whole word of God clearly and plainly teaches us that everything Jesus is and has was GIVEN TO him BY HIS God and Father the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God. Let us continue this study in God word with the next verse in question that is used to try and prove that Jesus himself AS the SON OF Almighty God the Father has ALWAYS preexisted WITHOUT ever having a BEGINNING. John 1:1 is probably one of the most widely used verses to try and prove eh doctrine of the TRINITY and the doctrine of the deity of Jesus.
================================= VERSE #12.
DOES JOHN 1:1
“THE WORD WAS GOD”
PROVE THAT JESUS PREEXISTED?
Now those who teach the doctrine of the trinity and the doctrine of the deity of Jesus dogmatically demand that Jesus is FULLY ALMIGHTY God in the flesh and fully man at the SAME time, because they have INCORRECTLY INTERPRETED this verse along with John 1:14 and FALSELY ASSUME that since the Word was made flesh that this therefore means without fail that Jesus himself IS the WORD. So then, from this first FALSE ASSUMPTION that Jesus himself IS the WORD they incorrectly conclude that since John 1:1 says that the Word WAS God, then therefore this means without fail that JESUS HIMSELF IS THE ALMIGHTY God. In other words, they try and SUBSTITUTE a mathematical formula where if A=B, and B=C, then A=C by comparing the Word the became flesh and then reversing it to mean that Jesus IS the Word. Here is how their argument goes. They say that if the Word was made FLESH = Jesus, and the Word WAS God = the Word being ALMIGHTY God, then Jesus must therefore BE THE ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF in the FLESH, because Jesus = the Word.
But is this TRULY what John 1:1-14,15,18, and 30 mean in the light of the WHOLE word of Almighty God? Does John 1:1 prove without fail that Jesus is THE ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF and therefore preexisted as God the SON, the SECOND person of the TRINITY, God the SON, for all eternity WITHOUT ever having a BEGINNING?
First of all most every Christians AGREES that Jesus came FROM God, that Jesus is OF God, that Jesus CAME OUT FROM Almighty God, which means that Almighty God is the SOURCE OF his SON Jesus. All Christians I would say believe that Almighty God has always existed without beginning. But when it comes to the SON OF Almighty God, who is BEGOTTON OF Almighty God, then SOME Christians dogmatically demand that the SON OF Almighty God NEVER had a BEGINNING. Now to ME and many other Christians it is blatantly clear that the terms “Father”, “SON”, and “BEGOTTEN OF God” without a doubt demand that the “SON OF” God HAVE a BEGINNING. Jesus, the “SON OF” Almighty God was BEGOTTON OF God and therefore the SON had a BEGINNING. So then, to many Christians like myself we simply cannot accept the false teaching of the doctrine of the trinity that INCORRECTLY states and dogmatically demands that Jesus, the SON OF Almighty God is CO ETERNAL with Almighty God, which means according to the doctrine of the trinity that Jesus AS the SON OF God has always existed WITHOUT EVER having a BEGINNING AS God the SON, the so called SECOND person of the TRINITY. Also there are some Christians who do NOT believe in the doctrine of the trinity that still dogmatically teach that Jesus preexisted as the SON OF God from all eternity past, but they do admit to the TRUTH that since Jesus was BEGOTTEN, then Jesus did indeed HAVE a BEGINNING. Although they still dogmatically demand that the BEGINNING of Jesus when he was FIRST BEGOTTEN was in ETERNITY past.
But again, is EITHER of these teachings what the whole word of God TRULY teaches us? Can this mathematical formula be SUBSITUTED and used in every situation and still be found true?
Now those who teach the doctrine of the trinity often use WATER as a way to illustrate the trinity, where water can be found in THREE different separate FORMS and yet all three of these separate forms are still considered to be ONE element called water. They begin their argument or line of reasoning by saying that water can be a LIGUID, a SOLID as ice or frozen WATER, and a GAS as steam or WATOR vapor, but yet all THREE separate FORMS of water are all still WATER. So then, according to the logic of those who teach the doctrine of the trinity let us use this same logic to say that the LIQUID = the Word that was God, and LIQUID was made to become a SOLID, where the SOLID represents Jesus, the Word MADE flesh or in this case the LIQUID made SOLID. But then the doctrine of the trinity and the doctrine of the deity of Jesus go on to say that since Jesus IS the Word and the Word was God, then Jesus IS THE ALMIGHTY God in the FLESH, which is exactly what some Christians who teach the doctrine of the trinity are saying, But when we use their same logic or example of using WATER WATER being in THREE separate forms, a LIQUID being God the Father, a SOLID being God the SON, and GAS being God the Holy Spirit, then their line of reasoning no longer hold “WATER”, so to speak. In other words, their line of reasoning falls apart and is proven to not be sound logic. Let me explain what I mean by this. According to those who teach the doctrine of the trinity the WORD was God therefore Word is THE ALMIGHTY God and thus the WORD is compared to water in the FROM of a LIQUID. That is to say, God the Father = LIGUID. Then the WORD was made FLESH where the flesh we know is speaking of Jesus. In other words, the WORD was made to become JESUS, which is represented by water being in the FORM of frozen water or a SOLID, the SECOND person of the trinity. Now according to those who teach the doctrine of the trinity who INCORRECTLY try and use the mathematical formula if A=B, and B=C, then C=A to CLAIM that since the WORD was made to become Jesus, then Jesus IS the WORD. And since the WORD WAS God, then JESUS IS God let us see what happens when we us their illustration of WATER being three in one in the same mathematical formula. The LIQUID, which represents the WORD that was God, which was made to become a SOLID, which represents Jesus, the WORD made to become FLESH. Therefore, ACCORDING to those who teach the doctrine of the trinity, the SOLID, which is the LIQUID made to become SOLID that represents Jesus IS FULLY LIQUID and FULLY a SOLID at the SAME TIME. In other words, a SOLID = a LIQUID. Or that is to say the LIQUID, that represents the WORD that was made to become a SOLID that represents Jesus, the WORD that was made to become FLESH is one and the same BEING or one and the same as LIQUID where SOLID=LIQUID and LIQUID=SOLID. Can you not see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, that this mathematical formula does NOT work is every situation. The TRUTH of the matter is that the WORD was MADE to BECOME flesh. So then, ONCE the WORD represented by LIQUID was MADE to BECOME a SOLID, then the LIGUID took on a DIFFERNT FORM to BECOME into being FULLY a SOLID and is NO LONGER a LIQUID. In other words, LIQUID took on a NEW FORM to be MADE into a SOLID, being FULLY SOLID and no longer a LIQUID. That is to say, this NEW FORM of water is NO LONGER it's previous FORM, which was once a LIQUID. So then, the WORD that was in the FORM OF God took on ANOTHER form, which was a HUMAN BEING, the Son of MAN being FULLY a HUMAN BEING. The SOURCE of the SOLID CAME FROM LIQUID, but once the LIQUID was MADE to BECOME SOLID, then the SOLID is no longer LIQUID. In a similar way the WORD was MADE to BECOME Jesus. The SOURCE of Jesus CAME FROM the WORD OF God, but once the WORD was MADE to BECOME Jesus, then Jesus is NO LONGER the WORD. Let me say this another way. We all know and agree that Almighty God made or created ALL things BY, THROUGH, or WITH his SPOKEN WORD. And God SAID, let there BE light and then what God HIMSELF desired to BE came into being only AFTER God SPOKE FORTH his desire to BE in the FORM of his WORD. In other words, what God WAS his WORD BECAME. So in the same way that a TREE that came forth OUT FROM God by his SPOKEN WORD to be MADE to become a TREE where the tree is FULLY a tree and NO LONGER the Word, then so is Jesus NO LONGER the Word in that same sense that a tree is no longer the Word. The Word was made to become a tree, The Word was MADE to become flesh or a human being.
So then, simply put Jesus PREEXISTED in the form of the SPOKEN WORD of Almighty God that was WITHIN Almighty God for all eternity as God's THOUGHTS, desires and PLAN to one day in the fullness of the time bring forth in only begotten Son into existence. And this ORIGIN of the SON OF Almighty God was PLANNED and ORDAINED from before the foundation of the world.
Let me prove this to you by the word of TRUTH, the written word of Almighty God, the Holy Bible. So then, let us begin this section in this study of God's word by closely examining this verse in John 1:1 as it reads in the ORIGINAL LITERAL Greek. And please keep in mind that as you take a look at what the literal original Greek actually translates word for word that the Greek word "theos" that is translated as "God" in English is NOT capitalized in the original language. In other words, "theos" is simply read, understood, and translated as "god" in the mind of those who read and write Greek. This is WHY the definite article "THE" is so important so that the Greek word "theos" can be known when the writer is speaking of THE GOD as opposed to a LESSER god who is UNDER THE ONE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God, THE GOD of gods.
Here is John 1:1 in the original Greek translated word for word is as follows:
“In beginning was THE word and THE word was with THE god and god was THE word.”
Here is another original Greek translation of John 1:1, which reads as follows:
“In beginning was the SAYING and the SAYING was TOWARD THE God and god was the SAYING.”
Please notice that this translation says that the Word or the SAYING was TOWARD THE God. The Greek word “PROS” that is translated as “WITH” in the King James version ALSO means TOWARD the God, pertaining to the God, by the side of the God, ACCORDING TO the God, because of the God, and WITHIN the God. This Greek word “PROS” also carries the meaning as a DIRECTION towards a purpose, which is the direction, as in, whither or FOR which it is PREDICTED.
This definition AGREES with the word of TRUTH found in Isaiah 55:8-11, where God sends FORTH his WORD into the world to do what God desires in his THOUGHTS for his WORD to do.
“For MY THOUGHTS are not your thoughts, neither are your ways MY WAYS, says the LORD. 9. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my THOUGHTS than your thoughts. 10. For AS the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven, and returns not thither, but waters the earth, and makes it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater (or AS in a similar way that the rain and snow comes DOWN OUT of heaven to the earth, then the rain and snow shall ACCOMPLISH what I Almighty God SENT the rain and snow to DO):
In other words, Almighty God SENT FORTH his SPOKEN WORD that CAME FORTH FROM OUT of the MOUTH of God DOWN OUT of heaven down to the earth to be SPOKEN by his angel Gabriel to the VIRGIN Mary. And then when Mary AGREED to the SPOKEN WORD OF God by saying, be it DONE ACCORDING to your WORD, then the SPOKEN WORD of Almighty God was MADE o BECOME ALIVE in the womb of Mary to be BORN the Son of MAN nine months later. That is to say, the SPOKEN WORD was MADE to become living flesh in the womb of Mary to be BORN a HUMAN BEING who was FULLY a HUMAN being that CAME FORTH OUT FROM God by God's SPOKEN WORD. Please read John 16:27-30, which clearly teaches us that Jesus CAME OUT FROM God.
“For the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me, and have BELIEVED that I CAME OUT FROM God. 28. I CAME FORTH FROM the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. (Jesus knew that the scriptures spoke of HIM. Jesus understood that the written WORD of God were PROPHECIES of HIM. So Jesus knew and understood from the scriptures that he was to leave the world and RETURN unto HIS God and Father AFTER he ACCOMPLISHED all the WILL of his God and Father that his Father SENT his SPOKEN WORD to do,) 29. His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speak you PLAINLY, and speak NO proverb. (in other words, the disciples were saying NOW we UNDERSTAND what you mean when you said he who see YOU has SEEN the FATHER. We now understand that you were NOT saying that you yourself were the Father, but rather you were saying that you came to SHOW us the FATHER to be the ONE TRUE God BY the WORKS that Almighty God the FATHER DID by your hands witnessing to us that Almighty God is TRULY WITH you Jesus.) 30. Now are we SURE that you know all things, and need not that any man should ask you: by this we BELIEVE that you CAME FORTH FROM God.”
The disciples of Jesus understood perfectly that Jesus was NOT Almighty God HIMSELF, but rather BELIEVED that Jesus CAME FORTH OUT FROM God. You see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, God's SPOKEN WORD that was sent forth into the earth by the angel Gabriel ACCOMLPISHED step one of God's PLAN of salvation that was kept SECRET from before the foundation of the world, when the WORD was MADE to BECAME living flesh in the womb of Mary to be BORN nine months later as the Son of MAN. Then in the FULLNESS of the time after the Son of MAN had grown to manhood, then Almighty God ANOINTED his SON, Jesus, with his very OWN SELF SAME ETERNAL HOLY SPIRIT to EMPOWER his SON to ACCOMPLISH ALL the WILL of HIS God and Father to become obedient unto death on the cross as the prefect sacrifice for the sins of the whole world. Then AFTER the SPOKEN WORD of God ACCOMPLISHED all the PLAN of God up to that point in time, then Almighty God the Father HIGHLY EXALTED his SON, Jesus to accomplish step two of God's PLAN of salvation. Please remember and keep in mind that the ORIGINAL LITERAL Greek language says in John 1:1 the following:
“In beginning was the SAYING and the SAYING was WITHIN THE God and god was the SAYING.”
And then, what God THOUGHT to BE, then God SPOKE FORTH his WORD OUT of his MOUTH what God PLEASED God to bring forth into BEING where it never existed before EXCEPT in the MIND and PLAN of God. Then the WORD, the SPOKEN WORD OF Almighty God was SENT DOWN OUT of heaven DOWN to the earth to ACCOMPLISH the WILL of Almighty God that God sent his WORD to accomplish. This is what Jesus meant when he said in John 6:38,
“For I CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, not to do mine OWN will, but the WILL OF of him that SENT me.”
You see, the TRUTH of the matter is that Jesus came down out of heaven AS the SPOKEN WORD of Almighty God. And THEN Jesus was SENT OUT INTO the world to DO the WILL of HIS God and Father only AFTER the Father ANOINTED his SON Jesus with his very own self same eternal Holy Spirit to empower his SON, his SPOKEN WORD to ACCOMPLISH want God sent his SPOKEN WORD, his SON Jesus to accomplish. The SPOKEN WORD was MADE to BECOME FLESH. One thing you need to understand is that Jesus is ALWAYS going to be JESUS. In other words, the SPOKEN word that CAME FORTH OUT FROM Almighty God was made to become Jesus, the SON OF Almighty God and Jesus, the SON OF Almighty God is ALWAYS going to REMAIN or continue to BE Jesus the SON OF Almighty God the Father, in that, Jesus is NOT going to RETURN to Almighty God as the WORD. But rather Jesus RETURNED to HIS God and Father after he accomplished the WILL of His God and Father. To ME, it is much easier to believe that Jesus preexisted as the SPOKEN WORD of God the was SENT by God down out of heaven to be brought into BEING as a living human being in the womb of the VIRGIN Mary, that to try and comprehend how a separate Spirit being came down of heaven and enter into the womb of Mary to be born a GOD/man being FULLY ALMIGHTY God and fully a MAN at the SAME time. I mean to ME, we already understand that the Holy Spirit DWELLS IN US and that we are the TEMPLE of the Holy Spirit. So to ME, it is far easier to understand that the SPOKEN WORD was MADE to BECOME a living fetus of flesh and blood in the womb of the VIRGIN Mary to be BORN as the Son of MAN nine months later, because we already understand that everything that was made or created was done so BY the SPOKEN WORD of Almighty God. So the ME, it is far easier to understand and believe that Jesus was ANOINTED WITH the Holy Spirit of His God and Father, than to try and comprehend how a SUPPOSED second person of the so called trinity as God the SON, that is claimed to never having a BEGINNING as the SON OF Almighty God descend down out of heaven and was INCARNATED to be a GOD/MAN with TWO natures, a DIVINE nature and a human nature, being FULLY almighty God and fully a human being at the SAME time. To ME, it is far easier to understand and believe that Jesus was FILLED with the eternal Spirit who DWELT IN Jesus the SAME way that the eternal Holy Spirit now DWELLS IN us as believers. Now when we take the LITERAL translation of John1:1, which says,
“In beginning was the SAYING and the SAYING was WITHIN THE God and god was the SAYING.”
And then we COMPARE scripture with scripture and let the word of TRUTH interpret itself it becomes even MORE CLEAR that Jesus PREEXISTED as the SPOKEN WORD of Almighty God that was WITHING God from before the foundation of the world. Please read Exodus 3:14.
“And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shall you say unto the children of Israel, I AM has sent me unto you.”
The English phrase “I AM THAT I AM” is translated from the Hebrew words, “EHYEH ASHER EHYEH” which can be translated several ways such as.
“I am that I am” “I am what I am” “I am who I am” “I will be what I will be” “I shall be what I shall be” “I will be who I will be” “I am the self existing one” “I shall be whatever I shall be” “I am the BECOMING one”
And the ORIGINAL LITERAL TRANSLATION that I personally believe best compliments the WHOLE word of God is as follows:
“I SHALL BECOME what or who I am BECOMING”
In other words, the SPOKEN WORD that was WITHIN THE God shall BECOME what or who he is BECOMIMG. And God was the SAYING, the Word, the DECLARATION of PROPHECY that shall BE. To Me, this is what I personally believe is the CORRECT understanding of John 1:1 that AGREES with the WHOLE word of Almighty God. So then, I must conclude that John 1:1 does NOT prove without a doubt that Jesus preexisted AS the SON OF Almighty God the Father, being God the SON, the so called SECOND person of the trinity. who has always existed for all eternity WITHOUT ever having a BEGINNING. Let us take a look at Philippians 2:6, which is the next verse in question that is used to try and prove the doctrine of the trinity and the deity of Jesus where Jesus is THE ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF.
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VERSE # 13.
DOES PHILIPPIANS 2:6
“WHO WAS IN THE FORM OF GOD”
PROVE THAT JESUS PREEXISTED?
Again the question is not whether of not Jesus preexisted, but as to HOW Jesus preexisted? I the studies above we have conclude from the word of Almighty God that is was not possible for Jesus to have preexisted as a ANGEL, because Hebrews 1:13 clearly teaches us that God did NOT say to ANY of the ANGELS, “Sit at my right hand.”
Here is Hebrews 1:13 from God's Word Translation.
“But God NEVER said to ANY of the ANGELS, "Sit in the highest position in heaven until I make your enemies your footstool.”
Also we know that SPOKEN WORD of God was MADE to become a little LOWER or INFERIOR to the ANGLES and then when Jesus became obedient unto death on the cross to die for the sins of the whole world then HIS God and Father HIGHLY EXALTED his SON Jesus to be far ABOVE the ANGELS to rule over and judge the angels. Therefore it is made perfectly clear to all who are seeking the TRUTH of the WHOLE word of God that Jesus did NOT preexist as an ANGEL. Jesus was NOT Michael the archangel, nor was Jesus the ANGEL of the Lord in the Old Testament. Please read the study “IS JESUS MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL?”
We also concluded from the above verses compared in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of God that Jesus could NOT have possibly preexisted as God he SON, because Jesus was NOT HIGHLY EXALTED to become a God at his Father's right hand second only to HIS God and Father UNTIL AFTER Jesus became obedient unto death of the cross to die for the sins of the WHOLE world. We will come this verse again in this study in a moment. Then we concludes that Jesus could NOT have preexisted as the SON of Almighty God for all ETERNITY who did NOT HAVE a BEGINNING, because the very words, Father, SON OF the Father, and the only BEGOTTEN SON OF God demand that BOTH the SON and the Father have a BEGINNING. Now this does NOT mean that Almighty God HIMSELF literally had a BEGINNING, but rather that God has ALWAYS existed being the ONLY SELF existing IMMORTAL eternal Spirit who has ever been WITHOUT BEGINNING, but God was NOT ALWAYS a FATHER. In other words, God did not actually BECOME a Father UNTIL he brought forth into existence his only BEGOTTEN SON Jesus, which means without a doubt that the SON OF almighty God did indeed HAVE a BEGINNING. So then, we are left will only THREE possibilities as to HOW Jesus PREEXISTED!
POSSIBILITY #1. Jesus was BEGOTTEN or brought FORTH INTO EXISITENCE is all eternity past HAVING a BEGINNING, and then the SON OF God was sent down from out of heaven down to the earth to be INCARNATED as the HUMAN Jesus. But again from the studies above we have concluded that this possibility does NOT AGREE in complete harmony with the WHOLE word of Almighty God.
POSSIBILITY #2. Jesus preexisted as the Word, where the Word was a separate Spirit being from Almighty God called the Word. And the this Spirit being called the Word was sent down from out of heaven down to the earth to be INCARNATED as a HUMAN being. Again this interpretation does NOT AGREE completely with the WHOLE word of God.
POSSIBILITY #3. Jesus PREEXISTED as the SPOKEN WORD of Almighty God, which we have CLEARLY and PLAINLY shown in the previous study “DOES John 1:1- THE WORD WAS GOD- PROVE THAT JESUS PREEXISTED?” to be the most plausible interpretation that does NOT contradict any other part of God's word.
Let us now take a closer look at Philippians 2:6 being left in the context of where it is found. Now some who teach the doctrine of the trinity interpret this verse as saying that Jesus had the very nature of God and that Jesus did not think that it was wrong to be EQUAL with God.
Now on the SURFACE this verse from the King James Version may APPEAR or may SEEM to be saying that Jesus is EQUAL with Almighty God the Father, but I assure you that this verse is NOT saying that Jesus is EQUAL with Almighty God, because if we leave this verse in the CONTEXT of where it is found, then WE also must NOT think that it is wrong to be EQUAL with Almighty God as well. As I have said many times that ANY verse when taken OUT of CONTEXT and viewed ALONE and APART from the REST of God's word may SEEM to be saying something that it is NOT TRULY saying. You see the CONTEXT of this verse is teaching US to have the SAME MIND that Jesus was thinking. Therefore IF SO BE that Jesus is truly saying in Philippians 2:6 that he is EQUAL with Almighty God and that Jesus did NOT consider it to be EQUAL with God was robbery or that to be EQUAL with Almighty God was wrong, then WE ALSO must have this SAME MIND that Jesus SUPPOSEDLY had according to some Christians and therefore think that WE also are EQUAL with Almighty God the Father in every way as well. Please read Philippians 2:6 in it's CONTEXT and prayerfully consider the consequences of INCORRECTLY interpreting this verse to dogmatically mean without fail that Jesus is saying that he is EQUAL with HIS God and Father is every way where neither is greater than nor less than the other as the doctrine of the trinity FALSELY teaches. Here is Philippians 2:3-11, which clearly and plainly teaches that WE as Christian are to have the SAME MIND as Jesus.
“Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of MIND let each esteem other BETTER than themselves. 4. Look NOT every man on his OWN things, but every man also on the things of others. 5. Let THIS MIND be in you, which was ALSO in Christ Jesus: (In other words, in truth, Jesus HUMBLED himself and he esteemed all others including his God and Father BETTER than himself. And this SAME MIND that was IN Jesus is to also be in US as well. So then, IF SO BE, that Jesus is truly saying in verse 6 as some Christians CLAIM that he is EQUAL with Almighty God the Father in every way, then WE ALSO are to have this SAME MIND that Jesus SUPPOSEDLY had, according to those who teach the doctrine of the trinity. In other words, IF SO BE that the doctrine of the trinity is true, then according to verse 5 here WE are to have the SAME MIND as Jesus as say that WE are EQUAL with Almighty God as well. But again I assure you that Jesus is NOT saying that he is EQUAL with his God and Father the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God, because this INTERPRETATION of those who teach the doctrine of the trinity would CONTRADICT the clear, plain, and SIMPLE word of TRUTH found in John 14:28 where Jesus clearly states that the Father is GREATER than he is. So then, LET this SAME MIND be in YOU, which ALSO was in the ANOINTED ONE Jesus:) 6. Who (speaking of Jesus or more precisely speaking of the Word that was with THE God and was God BEFORE the Word was MADE FLESH. You see my dear brothers ans sister in our Lord Jesus Christ, John 1:1 does NOT say in the beginning was JESUS, and JESUS was WITH THE God and JESUS was God. And neither does John 1:1 say that in the beginning was the SON OF the Almighty God, and the SON OF THE God was WITH THE God, and the SON OF THE God was God. But rather the CLEAR, PLAIN and SIMPLE word of TRUTH clearly states that in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with THE God and the Word was God. And then in John 1:14 it says that the Word was MADE flesh. Please read the study "JOHN 1:1- THE WORD WAS GOD" for a deeper understanding of what John l:1 truly says in the LITERAL Greek. So then, the WORD), being in the FORM of God, thought it NOT robbery to be EQUAL with God: (Now please understand that the WORD itself is NOT the one who is actually doing the THINKING here, but rather the MIND that is doing the THINKING here in this verse is the MIND of HUMAN JESUS after the Word was MADE FLESH. You see, Jesus was GIVEN ALL power and authority by his God and Father. Jesus COULD have used this power in what ever way he so chose to use it, but Jesus did NOT do his OWN WILL. But rather Jesus HUMBLE himself to become OBEDIENT to his God and Father. Please consider Luke 9:54-56 where the disciples of Jesus, who were given at that time just limited power and authority and they asked Jesus shall WE COMMAND down fire from heaven to consume them. But Jesus rebuked them saying that they were of the WRONG MIND or the wrong spirit. So then, in truth this verse is teaching us that the WORD was with God was SENT FROM God by the angel Gabriel down to the earth to be SPOKEN to Mary and then the WORD was MADE to become a HUMAN BEING that was then GIVEN the NAME of Jesus. And eventually in the fullness of time the only begotten SON OF God was also GIVEN all power and authority to bare or to be in the very IMAGE or FORM of Almighty God being ANOINTED by his God and Father where Almighty God the Father the ETERNAL SPIRIT DWELT IN his SON Jesus to EMPOWER his SON to do all that the Father SENT his only BEGOTTEN Son OUT INTO the world to do. In other words, the writer of Philippians is speaking of TWO forms of God in the same context. At times the writer is speaking of the WORD BEFORE the Word was MADE FLESH, who we all know is JESUS. Then at other times the writer is speaking of Jesus AFTER the Word was MADE flesh. The writer keeps switching back and forth between the Word and Jesus and therefore it SEEM as if JESUS himself, the only BEGOTTEN SON OF Almighty God has always preexisted in heaven, which would mean that Jesus was BEGOTTEN AGAIN a second time in HUMAN form. The truth of the matter is that the disciples recognized and understood that Jesus was the WORD of God MADE flesh so they spoke in terms as IF Jesus was the WORD even after the WORD was MADE to become flesh.) 7. But made himself of NO REPUTATION, and took upon him the FORM of a servant, and was MADE in the likeness of MEN: 8. And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. (Now on the surface these verse SEEM to be saying that Jesus preexisted with God in the FORM of God, and then this FORM of God took on ANOTHER FORM being MADE in the likeness of MEN. But what these verses are actually saying is that Jesus preexisted NOT as Jesus, and NOT as the SON OF Almighty God, but rather Jesus preexisted in the FORM of God as God's WORD. Now this is NOT to DOGMATICALLY DEMAND that this means without fail that the WORD was a SECOND PERSON apart from Almighty God the FATHER, because in TRUTH Almighty God was NOT LITERALLY a FATHER as yet, because his SON had NOT YET been BEGOTTEN or brought into existence, UNTIL the WORD was MADE to BECOME FLESH, a SEED in the womb of the virgin Mary to be BORN a HUMAN BEING and only later in the fullness of time was the only begotten SON OF Almighty God the Father was ANOINTED by his God and Father where Almighty God the FATHER, the ETERNAL Holy Spirit began to DWELL IN his Son Jesus to EMPOWER his SON to do all that the Father SENT him OUT into the world to do. Now again another way to interpret these three verses in the LIGHT of the whole word of God is that Jesus was GIVEN ALL POWER and AUTHORITY by his God and Father so for all practical purposes Jesus as a HUMAN BEING was indeed in the FORM of Almighty God himself. Not that Jesus himself was THE Almighty God the Father, but rather that Jesus had been GIVEN ALL the POWER and the AUTHORITY that Almighty God the Father HIMSELF possessed when the eternal Holy Spirit descended from heaven to REST upon Jesus ANOINTING or EMPOWERING him to over come sin and do all the WORKS that his God and Father SENT him out into the world to do. But yet this HUMAN Jesus did NOT even one time THINK to OVERTHROWN his God and Father like Lucifer had done. In other words, the HUMAN Jesus, who was in the FORM of Almighty God, in that, Jesus had been GIVEN all power and authority by his God and Father to bare the IMAGE of God, but yet Jesus, the Son of MAN and the SON OF God, did NOT ABUSE his God given power and authority like Lucifer did when Lucifer said I will EXALT my throne ABOVE the clouds and be like the MOST HIGH God. But rather the HUMAN Jesus, though he had been GIVEN all power HUMBLED himself and took upon himself the FORM of a SERVANT after the WORD was MADE in the likeness of MEN. In other words, this human Jesus willing became OBEDIENT unto death on the cross and to do ALL his Father's will. Jesus COULD HAVE called a legion of angels to save him, but he HUMBLED himself to OBEY his God and Father the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God and for this very REASON his God and Father REWARDED his SON with ETERNAL LIFE and made him to become "A" God second only to the Father HIMSELF. Keep reading because this is what the WHOLE word of God clearly teaches us.) 9. WHEREFORE (or for this very REASON that Jesus the Son of Almighty God the Father became OBEDIENT to his God and Father to die on the cross that his) God ALSO has HIGHLY EXALTED him, and GIVEN him a NAME which is above every NAME: 10. That AT the NAME of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; (the NAME of Jesus means the salvation of Yehovah or Almighty God SAVES. Please read the study "TITUS 2:13-WHO IS OUR SAVIOR GOD OR JESUS?") 11. And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, TO the glory OF God the Father.”
So again IF SO BE that those who teach the doctrine of the trinity are correct and Jesus is truly saying that he is EQUAL to Almighty God the Father, then WE ALSO are to have this SAME MIND that Jesus had and WE ALSO are think it NOT ROBBERY to be EQUAL with Almighty God our Father as well. But we should all know that this was NOT what Jesus nor this verse is saying in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of Almighty God.
But some may still argue and say, what about Jesus being in the FORM OF God?
Well an HONEST translation would CORRECTLY be translated as, “Who was in the IMAGE OF God”
Now the Roman Catholic church in France for many years have always translated Philippians 2:6,7 as follows:
“Being of DIVINE STATUS, Christ did NOT greedily HOLD ON TO the RANK that made him EQUAL to God”.
But then several bishops in France, who were scholars of God's word, got together after studying this passage of scripture more CLOSELY and decided that to be FAIR to to original text these verses should have been translated as follows:
“Christ Jesus is God's IMAGE; but he did NOT choose to SEIZE BY FORCE EQUALITY with God.”
But this translation caused much controversy among the Catholics in France and they demonstrated against the church saying that this translation is just like saying that,
“If Jesus refused to SEIZE equality with God, then it must be said that Jesus or the Word did NOT ALREADY possess EQUALITY with God"
In other words, another DILEMMA for the doctrine of the trinity, which states that Jesus is co EQUAL and co ETERNAL with Almighty God the FATHER, which mean that Jesus, the SON OF Almighty God the Father, must have always been EQUAL with God from all eternity. Anyway these French Catholics put so much pressure on these bishops, who were Bible SCHOLARS, that these bishops gave in and made a COMPROMISE by changing the translation of Philippians 2:6,7 to the following:
“Christ Jesus is God's IMAGE; but he did NOT choose to CLAIM to be the same as God”
But this new revised translation did not set well with the Catholic in France either. They said that that if Jesus did not choose to claim that he was the SAME as God, then this would imply that Jesus nor the Word was EVER the SAME as God.
Again yet another DILEMMA for the doctrine of the trinity. In other words, these Catholic bishops were just trying to be HONEST by CORRECTING translating Philippians 2:3-11, but the lay Catholics, who are NOT Bible SCHOLARS, and do NOT understand what the original Greek language ACTUALLY says revolted against these bishops and said that this would be BLASPHEMY to say the Jesus was never EQUAL with God or the Jesus was never the SAME as God, BECAUSE this is what they had been TAUGHT to believe for so many years. They could not or WOULD not see the TRUTH because they refuse to lay aside what they had previously been brainwashed to believe by the Roman catholic church for so long. Any way the Roman Catholic bishops sent their findings to the pope in Rome in 1969 and the pope sanctioned that this translation was Biblical so the change was made and the OFFICIAL Roman Catholic translation in France is that Jesus is the IMAGE of God and that Jesus did NOT seek to be EQUAL with Almighty God his Father and that Jesus did not CLAIM to be the SAME as God.
Now this OFFICIAL change that was made by the Roman Catholic church in France is like a direct DENIAL or a direct CONTRADICTION to the doctrine of the trinity that was originally formed over many centuries by the Roman Catholic church. So the question is WHY would these Catholic bishops push for such a change, which would CONTRADICT what they themselves had been TAUGHT by the roman Catholic church? Perhaps their CONSCIENCE would NOT let them translate Philippians 2:3-11 any other way than the CORRECT way. These Roman Catholic bishops just wanted to be FAITHFUL and HONEST to the ORIGINAL Greek text. And their fellow brothers and sisters in the Lord persecuted these bishops for teaching them the TRUTH. Does this not sound familiar to the words of Jesus who said why do you try to kill me for telling you the TRUTH! Here is what The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology has to say concerning this passage of scripture in Philippians chapter 2, verses 3 through 11. Now please keep in mind that these are highly educated BIBLICAL sources that I am giving you.
"Although Jesus, the Son of God, in his preexisting being AS the Word was in the form or IMAGE of God, he (the Word, both now and before the Word was made flesh) and the Son of MAN resisted the temptation to be EQUAL with God (Phil. 2:6). That is to say that in the days of his flesh in his earthly existence Jesus was obedient to God, even unto death on the cross (Phil. 2:8) .... Then ONLY AFTER the completion of his work on earth Jesus was HIGHLY EXALTED and has indeed been raised to the right hand of God (Eph. 1:20; 1 Pet. 3:22) .... But he is STILL NOT made EQUAL to God. Although completely co-ordinate with God, he remains SUBORDINATE to him (cf. 1 Cor. 15:28)." 1968 Zondervan- p. 80, vol. 2.
This Greek word “MORPHE” that is translated as FORM, NATURE, and IMAGE actually refers to the OUTWARD appearance according to the New International dictionary of New Testament Theology. Also Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon agrees that “MORPHE” is EXTERNAL appearance. So therefore those who translates this Greek word “MORPHE” as NATURE to IMPLY that Jesus was FULLY the DIVINE ALMIGHTY God and fully man at the same time are not accurately honest with their translation. Yes some concordances do say that this word means nature, but in the light of all the other meanings of this word, then the TRUE meaning of “nature” would better mean “character” rather than divine nature or human nature meaning the very inner being of species, an in, human species, or divine species. The Strong's concordance says that “morphe” means form, outward appearance, nature and character. The Strong's concordance goes on to say that “morphe”denotes characteristic form or feature OF a person or thing. Now on the other hand if so be that the writer INTENDED this FORM OF God to mean the very INNER BEING, then he would have chosen to use the Greek word “MORPHOO”, which refers to the INTERNAL form as opposed to the OUTWARD form. This word “morphoo” is used in Galatians 4:19 expressing the CHANGE in the CHARACTER corresponding to the INNER spiritual man or the INNER NATURE of the new born again creature born from above by the word of God. So then, IF the writer truly wanted to clearly show that the Word was in the INWARD NATURE of God, the very being of God, then he would have used the Greek word “MORPHOO”, rather than the Greek word “MORPHE”. In Mark 16:12 after the resurrection of Jesus we read where Jesus appears in ANOTHER FORM or in ANOTHER or a DIFFERENT “MORPHE”. So then, did Jesus change his INWARD NATURE here in Mark 16:12. The answer is NO of course not, but rather Jesus changed his OUTWARD appearance, because this is what this Greek word “MORPHE” means. Only Almighty God can look upon the heart or the inner “MORPHOO”. When people SAW the WORKS and the CHARACTER of Jesus they saw the “MORPHE” or the FORM of Almighty God the Father himself. The saw the EXPRESS IMAGE of Almighty God when they SAW the WORKS being done by the hands of Jesus, which were actually being done BY Almighty God the FATHER who was DWELLING IN his SON. You see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, Jesus was the FORM OF God, in that, Jesus was the EXPRESS IMAGE of his God and Father the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God. We get the English word morphosis, which means to CHANGE form. More commonly used as metamorphosis. Some Greek scholars have HONESTLY translated the Greek word “MORPHE” as IMAGE in Philippians 2:6, which to me makes quite a lot of sense when you view the Word of God as the SPOKEN WORD of God as opposed to the Word being ANOTHER spiritual being that was with God in a beginning. In others words, Almighty God spoke forth his Word by his angel Gabriel to the virgin Mary and the Word CHANGED FORM and BECAME a HUMAN form. Jesus said in John 6:63 that it is the SPIRIT that quickens or makes ALIVE and then went on to says that the WORDS he SPOKE that he received FROM God were SPIRIT. In other words, the SPOKEN WORDS of Almighty God make ALIVE, they produce LIFE. God's WORDS are SPIRIT. So in the light of this scripture it is very easy to see how Almighty God SENT his WORD, which was his PLAN to bring forth a SON into existence, down from heaven with his angel Gabriel, who then SPOKE God's WORD to the virgin Mary, and then when Mary AGREED to the SPOKEN WORD of God, then the WORD, being SPIRIT was MADE to become ALIVE in the womb of Mary to be BORN a HUMAN BEING. Truly a DIVINE ORIGIN of our Lord and savior Jesus the ANOINTED ONE of Almighty God the Father, who became the IMAGE, the EXPRESSED IMAGE of his God and Father as Almighty God EXPRESSED his THOUGHTS in the FORM or IMAGE of his THOUGHTS that was WITHIN him to COMR FORTH OUT of the MOUTH of God to BECOME the IMAGE of what God desired to BE. Now when we take the LITERAL translation of John1:1, which says,
“In beginning was the SAYING and the SAYING was WITHIN THE God and god was the SAYING.”
And then we COMPARE scripture with scripture and let the word of TRUTH interpret itself it becomes even MORE CLEAR that Jesus PREEXISTED as the SPOKEN WORD of Almighty God that was WITHING God from before the foundation of the world. Please read Exodus 3:14.
“And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shall you say unto the children of Israel, I AM has sent me unto you.”
The English phrase “I AM THAT I AM” is translated from the Hebrew words, “EHYEH ASHER EHYEH” which can be translated several ways such as.
“I am that I am” “I am what I am” “I am who I am” “I will be what I will be” “I shall be what I shall be” “I will be who I will be” “I am the self existing one” “I shall be whatever I shall be” “I am the BECOMING one”
And the ORIGINAL LITERAL TRANSLATION that I personally believe best compliments the WHOLE word of God is as follows:
“I SHALL BECOME what or who I am BECOMING”
In other words, the SPOKEN WORD that was WITHIN THE God shall BECOME what or who he is BECOMIMG. And God was the SAYING, the Word, the DECLARATION of PROPHECY that shall BE. To Me, this is what I personally believe is the CORRECT understanding of John 1:1 that AGREES with the WHOLE word of Almighty God. So then, I must conclude that John 1:1 does NOT prove without a doubt that Jesus preexisted AS the SON OF Almighty God the Father, being God the SON, the so called SECOND person of the TRINITY, who has always existed for all eternity WITHOUT ever having a BEGINNING. Also I would like to draw your attention to the fact that most every verse in the New Testament only speaks of TWO individual separate persons, Almighty God the Father, AND his SON Jesus. Even here I John 1:1 there SEEMS to be TWO rather than THREE being mentioned, Almighty God AND his WORD. In fact the only time where we do find three being mentioned are verses that some Bible scholars QUESTION as to whether or not they were tampered with by the Roman Catholic church. Please read the study “IS THE HOLY SPIRIT a PERSON? Or a POWER?” for a deeper understanding that the Holy Spirit IS the ETERNAL SPIRIT who alone has always self existed for all eternity. In other words, the eternal Holy Spirit IS Almighty God who ALONE has always possessed IMMORTALITY in himself as 1 Timothy 6:13-16 clearly teaches us.
“I give you charge in the sight of God, who quickens all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 14. That you keep this commandment (or this TEACHING) without spot, UNREBUKABLE, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15. Which in his times (speaking of the first and second comings of Jesus) he (Jesus) shall SHOW (Jesus came to show us the FATHER to be the one true God), who is the blessed and ONLY Potentate (or who is the ONE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God), the King of kings, and Lord of lords;(these two phrases often confuse some Christians because Jesus is called the King of kings and the Lord of lords in the book of Revelation. Please read the study called “Revelation 17:14 WHO IS THE KING OF KINS?”, but for know please know that Jesus was MADE to become a King of kings and a Lord of lords BY HIS God and Father the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God.) 16. Who ONLY has IMMORTALITY, (Jesus was GIVEN immortality BY HIS God and Father only AFTER Jesus became obedient unto death on the cross) dwelling in the light which NO man can approach unto; whom NO man has seen, NOR CAN SEE (because the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God IS the ETERNAL Holy Spirit who is INVISIBLE. The Bible clearly teaches us that man HAS SEEN Jesus and that every eye shall SEE Jesus when he comes again. So the WHO here in this verse is most definitely referring to Almighty God the FATHER): to whom be honor and power everlasting.(all the glory and honor goes to the Father who has ordained for us to honor his SON even as we honor Almighty God the Father himself) Amen.”
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------- So then, to me I myself believe that the whole word of Almighty God places far more EMPHASIS on Jesus being a MAN, the Son OF MAN, as oppose to being referred to as the SON OF Almighty God. What I mean by this is that some Christians dogmatically demand that Jesus being the SON OF Almighty God means without fail that Jesus IS THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF. In other words, the Roman Catholic church and many main stream Protestant churches that came out of the Catholic church dogmatically demand that Jesus coming OUT FROM God means without fail the Jesus IS FULLY ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF in the flesh and fully man at the SAME time, which they teach means that Jesus is CO EQUAL with Almighty God the Father, which to them means without fail that Jesus is EQUAL in every way to the Almighty God the Father where neither is greater than nor less than the other, and that Jesus is CO ETERNAL with Almighty God the Father, which to them means that Jesus has ALWAYS existed AS the SON of Almighty God the Father, being God the SON, the SECOND person of the so called TRINITY. But as we have CLEARLY and PLAINLY seen from this study in God's word that these man made teachings of the doctrine of the trinity and the doctrine of the deity of Jesus are NOT SOUND BIBLICAL teachings, because that do NOT AGREE with the WHOLE word of Almighty God.
The following is a list of 19 different thoughts that definitely contradict what I have always been taught about Jesus being God in the flesh, being FULLY God and FULLY man at the SAME time. And that Almighty God, the Father and his Son Jesus are CO-EQUAL with each other in every way where neither is greater than or less than the other. I have pondered over these and other scriptures that sparked these questions in me for many years and have have written several in-depth studies of God's word relating to this highly controversial subject of whether or not Jesus is God, as in, one and the same as being the ONE TRUE GOD and ONLY Almighty God, as the doctrine of the trinity teaches. You see, there can be ONLY ONE ALMIGHTY God, because the very word "ALMIGHTY" clearly means that there can be NO OTHER god or God that is GREATER or more MIGHTIER than the God who is ALL mighty, hence the word or title the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God. So then, the question is since the Bible teaches us in 1 Corinthians 8:6 that to us as Christians there is but ONE God and that ONE God IS the FATHER, then HOW can Jesus, the SON of Almighty God, the Father, also be the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God seeing that the doctrine of the trinity also teaches us that Jesus is NOT the FATHER and Almighty God the FATHER is NOT his SON Jesus? 1 Corinthians 8:6 "But to US there is but ONE God, the Father,..." Please consider carefully and prayerfully the following 19 things to ponder about Jesus and how they CONTRADICT what many of us have been TAUGHT about the "DOCTRINE" of the trinity. The scripture references are given at the end of this study. Also there are several IN DEPTH studies on specific verses that have been points of controversy, because of the way in which they have been INTERPRETED. All that I am asking is that you at least take time to HEAR the WHOLE matter by CONSIDERING these many OTHER possible interpretations that do NOT CONTRADICT the WHOLE word of God. But for now in this study I am presenting to you some thoughts or points to THINK about by considering the CLEAR, PLAIN, and SIMPLE word of Almighty God over the IMPLIED complex INTERPRETATION of these verses used to try and prove the "DOCTRINE" of the trinity.
POINT #1. Jesus had a WILL of his OWN that was different from the WILL of Almighty God, the Father and therefore Jesus needed to become OBEDIENT to his Father's WILL saying NOT MY will, but YOUR will be done. So then, how can Jesus be one and the same being as Almighty God the Father and have a DIFFERENT WILL that needed to be brought UNDER the will of his God and Father the one true and ONLY ALMIGHTY God?
POINT #2. Jesus was TEMPTED with evil to sin against his God and Father and the word of God plainly states that Almighty God CANNOT be TEMPTED with evil. So then, since ALMIGHTY God himself CANNOT be tempted, then HOW can Jesus be the ONE true and ONLY Almighty God seeing that Jesus himself was tempted in all points like as well are tempted, but Almighty God himself CANNOT be tempted?
POINT #3. Jesus did NOT KNOW the day nor the hour of his return, but yet Almighty God the Father does know that day and hour of his Son's return. HOW can this be IF what we have been TAUGHT is the truth that Jesus IS FULLY God and full flesh at the SAME time? I mean THING this though for yourself! How can Almighty God KNOW and NOT KNOW the very SAME thing at the same time? You see IF Jesus is truly the one true and ONLY ALMIGHTY God, then Jesus would BE the FATHER at the SAME time that Jesus is the SON and Jesus would therefore KNOW that day and the hour of his return, because Jesus would BE the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God. However, the WORD of TRUTH plainly states that that Jesus himself did NOT KNOW the day nor the hour of his return when at the SAME time his God and Father DID KNOW the day and the hour of his Son's return. Therefore the DOCTRINE of the trinity is simple not BIBLICAL, because for Jesus to be EQUAL with his Father, then Jesus WOULD KNOW everything that his Father knows.
POINT #4. Jesus COULD NOT DO any mighty work of healing in his own home town, when the Bible says that NOTHING is impossible with Almighty God. Keep in mind that the word of God does not say that Jesus WOULD not heal these people, but rather that Jesus COULD NOT in that Jesus was NOT ABLE to do any mighty work of healing in his own home town.
POINT #5. Jesus could do NOTHING OF HIMSELF, but rather Almighty God, the Father, by his Holy Spirit DWELLING IN his SON Jesus did the works. So then, HOW can the DOCTRINE of the trinity be true when this man made doctrine teaches us that Jesus is EQUAL to the Father in every way where neither is less than or greater than the other? The truth of the matter is that the DOCTRINE of the trinity is NOT a SOUND BIBLICAL teaching! It needs to be rejected as a false teaching.
POINT #6. Jesus was ANOINTED BY Almighty God, the Father to preach the gospel and to heal the sick, which raises the question, “Why did Jesus, the SON of Almighty God need to be anointed with the Holy Spirit OF Almighty God, IF Jesus was truly THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God in the flesh, being FULLY God and fully man and EQUAL with ALMIGHTY God in every way where neither is greater than of less than the other as the DOCTRINES of the trinity and the deity of Jesus teaches?” The truth of the matter is that Jesus is NOT the one true and ONLY Almighty God who alone is the FATHER according to 1 Corinthians 8:6.
POINT #7. Jesus said there is NONE good but the Father ONLY, when Jesus himself was addressed as good master or teacher. All through the Bible we clearly see that Jesus and Almighty God the Father are DIFFERENT and SEPARATE persons, so then why do some blindly accept the false teaching that Jesus IS FULLY God is the flesh and as be EQUAL with God in every way where neither is great than or less than the other. It should be clear to even the casual reader of God's word that Jesus consider his Father to be GREATER than himself. So then, WHY do some Christians cling to the man made doctrine that falsely teaches that Jesus is EQUAL to Almighty God?
POINT #8. Jesus said the Father is GREATER than ALL in the SAME context where he says that he and the Father are ONE, which literally means that they AGREE as one and NOT that they are one and the SAME being. Can you not see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, that IF this TRULY meant that Jesus and the Father are ONE and the SAME being, then the DOCTRINE of the trinity is still in error, because the doctrine of the trinity plainly states that Jesus is NOT the FATHER. Also IF the phrase in John 1:1 "...the Word WAS God." truly means that Jesus is GOD, in that, Jesus is THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God, then this would ALSO make Jesus to BE the FATHER, and therefore would contradict the teaching of the doctrine of the trinity. However the WHOLE word of TRUTH clearly and plainly teaches us that Jesus in NOT the FATHER.
POINT #8. Jesus was, is NOW and always will be UNDER or SUBJECT unto THE one true and ONLY Almighty God the FATHER. Often Christians TRY and explain away these CONTRADICTIONS between the man made teachings of the doctrine of the trinity and the clear plain and simple word of God by reasoning that Jesus was only under his Father while he was in the FLESH. However, IF this were true, then they would be CONTRADICTING their own belief, because they would be in fact saying that Jesus was NOT FULLY God in the FLESH and not fully EQUAL with Almighty God the Father. The truth of the matter is that no matter how you slice of dice it the clear plain and simple word of truth cannot be reasoned away. Please be absolutely sure that you carefully and prayerfully read all the verses below that clearly teach us that Jesus is UNDER and SUBJECT to his God and Father even now while Jesus is seated on his Father's throne in heaven and even after the 1000 year reign of Jesus will still be UNDER and SUBJECT to his God and Father, the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God. Therefore we must conclude that Jesus is NOT the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God, because being ALL MIGHTY God means that there is NO God that is OVER you!
POINT #9 Jesus plainly calls Almighty God, the Father, HIS GOD and HIS FATHER by saying words like MY God and MY Father. And God the Father HIMSELF says to his SON Jesus that he is the GOD of his Son Jesus saying EVEN YOUR God has anointed YOU in Hebrews 1:9. Again the very word "ALMIGHTY" means that there is NO God over or above the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God the Father of ALL including being the Father and God of his only begotten SON Jesus.
POINT #10. Jesus NEVER once claims that he himself is the one true and only Almighty God, or called himself God, or referred to himself as being EQUAL with HIS God and Father. In fact Jesus, nor the rest of God's word teaches us that Jesus is equal with Almighty God. The word teaches that Jesus is the SON OF Almighty God. The word teaches us that Almighty God the Father is GREATER than Jesus. So why then do some still dogmatically cling and teach the doctrines of men that clearly CONTRADICT the clear plain and simple word of TRUTH, the Holy Bible?
POINT #11. Jesus rather plainly states 80 times that he is the Son of MAN. Even when Jesus is addressed as being the SON OF God, Jesus immediately turns it around and calls himself the Son of MAN. Please read the study called "JESUS THE SON OF MAN" where you will learn why the Bible speaks of Jesus being the Son of MAN twice as much as it refers to Jesus being the Son of God. In fact there is only one time where the Bible clearly and plainly comes straight out and states that Jesus is God. And even in the context of this one time where Almighty God the Father calls his Son God it is clearly understood that Almighty God the Father is God OVER his Son Jesus being EXALTED to be a God at the Father's right hand to sit upon his Father's throne.
POINT #12. What ever the Word was in the beginning BEFORE the Word BECAME or the word was MADE to become FLESH is not what is in question, but rather what is in question is what the Word BECAME, or what the Word was MADE. The Bible teaches us that the Word BECAME FLESH and dwelt among us. So then, this HUMAN MAN that was CREATED or MADE by the Word of Almighty God the Father was GIVEN the name Jesus who dwelt among mankind some 2000 years ago. The Bible goes on to tell us that he, the Word that was with God stripped himself of ALL his glory and took upon himself the NATURE of man and became FLESH and blood just like you and I. Again I want to point out that if one dogmatically demands that since A=B, and B=C, then A=C to automatically mean that since the Word = Almighty God, and the Word = Jesus, then therefore Jesus = Almighty God, then you are ALSO dogmatically saying that Jesus IS the FATHER even if you are not aware that you are doing son, and therefore you are contradicting your own teaching of the doctrine of the trinity.
POINT #13. Jesus PRAYED to HIS God the Father for himself and others showing that he depended upon Almighty God, his God and Father. Now IF Jesus were truly FULLY Almighty God in the flesh then he would have no need to pray to anyone, because Jesus himself would already be THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God and therefore Jesus would BE the FATHER. This is the doctrine called ONENESS of Modalism that teaches that Jesus IS the FATHER and Almighty God the Father IS the SON at the same time as being different manifestations of the same one true God.
POINT #14. Jesus and Almighty God, the Father, are clearly shown in multiple verses of the Bible that they are TWO separate and distinct beings and that we as believers must believer and HONOR them BOTH in order to obtain eternal life in the world to come. So then, clearly the doctrine of oneness or Modalism is also a FALSE teaching as well.
POINT # 15. Jesus INCREASED in knowledge of God and in the grace and favor of HIS God and Father. Jesus also increased in the Spirit and he learned obedience by the things he suffered. In other words, IF Jesus were truly and FULLY God, then would not this be THE one true and ONLY Almighty God OBEYING HIMSELF? WHY would an ALMIGHTY and and ALL KNOWING God need to LEARN anything. Can you not see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ that these man made doctrines do NOT make any sense when they are examined in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of Almighty God. Therefore they must be rejected as FALSE teachings.
POINT #16. Jesus was HIGHLY EXALTED by Almighty God the Father to the highest place there is without being OVER Almighty God the Father HIMSELF. And please keep in mind that Jesus was EXALTED to be a God under his God and Father only AFTER Jesus the SON learned obedience to his God and Father by his death on the cross. Again, there can only be ONE true God, who ALONE is THE ALMIGHTY God, who has NO other God OVER him and the Bible calls this ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God, the FATHER. The Bible also clearly teaches us that Jesus is NOT the FATHER. Therefore Jesus can NOT be the one true and ONLY ALMIGHTY God, who ALONE is the FATHER.
POINT #17. Jesus was GIVEN to have IMMORTAL LIFE in himself EVEN AS the Almighty God, the Father, has life in himself. Or in the exact same way that Almighty God the Father has life in himself is the SAME eternal life that Almighty God the Father GAVE ETERNAL LIFE unto his SON Jesus when God resurrected his Son from the dead. Now please think about this for a moment, IF Jesus was truly ALMIGHTY God in the FLESH, being FULLY God and fully man at the SAME time as many of us have been TAUGHT, then WHY would THE one true and ONLY Almighty God NEED to be GIVEN ETERNAL LIFE seeing and knowing that Almighty God is already an eternal and SELF EXISTING being. Can you not see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, that even if your TRY to REASON this truth away by saying that Jesus stripped himself of his eternal life so that he could die for the sins of man. then you are CONTRADICTING your own doctrine of the trinity which clearly states that Jesus is EQUAL with the Father in every way. The TRUTH of the matter is that Jesus and his God and Father are NOT equal.
POINT # 18. The Bible plainly teaches us that everything that Jesus is and has was GIVEN to him BY HIS God and Father, the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God. POINT #19. Jesus was COMMANDED of Almighty God the Father. Again why would one COMMAND their OWN SELF to do something? And if they were separate but EQUAL in every way as the DOCTRINE of the trinity states, then you also have to ask yourself, do two beings who are EQUAL in every way were neither is greater than or less than the other COMMAND each other to do things. Absolutely NOT, no person being EQUAL with another would ever COMMAND them to do anything, but rather they would ASK them. Jesus ASKED his Father many times in prayer, but in comparison with Jesus ASKING his God and Father in prayer we see that Almighty God, the Father, gave his Son COMMANDMENTS that Jesus obeyed and kept in order to please his God and Father THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God.
POINT #20. Also
Jesus, the HUMAN MAN, the Son of MAN, the
SON OF God, had a
beginning.
No matter HOW you look at it, if there is a Father and a Son, then at
some point in TIME the Son needed to be BORN or to be BROUGHT into
existence
by the BEGETTING of his God and Father. Therefore the human Jesus,
the SON OF Almighty God the Father, did in fact have a BEGINNING. And also I have come to learn that there are some Christians who are leaving their Christian faith for this very same reason. Some are becoming atheist and some are converting to Islam, because these groups are pointing out the very same things that the Holy Spirit has shown me and which I have just shown you in these 19 points to ponder. To ME there is absolutely no need for all of this confusion if the WHOLE TRUTH of God's word was taught and then in unity we all spoke the same thing. The TRUTH of the matter is that every scripture that is used to TRY and teach or support the DOCTRINE of the trinity and that Jesus is FULLY THE ALMIGHTY God in the flesh, FULLY God and fully man at the SAME time and that Jesus is one and the same with God the Father, being co-equal and co-eternal with Almighty God the Father, can be interpreted ANOTHER way that does NOT contradict the whole word of God, if they are left in the context of where they are found and the WHOLE word of God is taken into account and weighed along side of the interpretation that is concluded. In other words, ALL the scriptures that PLAINLY show that Jesus is separate from the Father and that Jesus is under or subject to his God and Father CANNOT be interpreted in any other way. So then, the only way for there to be harmony with the WHOLE word of God, is for us to go back and rethink the verses that are used to TRY and teach the DOCTRINES of the trinity and the deity of Jesus. After the Holy Spirit revealed these 19 plus contradictions to me I had to put away these false teachings of these man made "DOCTRINES" of the trinity and of the deity of Jesus and embrace what the Holy word of Almighty God TRULY teaches despite the persecution and rejection that comes from my fellow brothers and sisters in Jesus, the CHRIST. If you desire to know the TRUTH of the WHOLE word or God, then I implore you follow up by reading the following in-depth studies that are SOLIDLY and SOLELY based upon the WHOLE word of Almighty God. Since the nature of these studies are highly controversial and go against the "mainstream" teaching of the Roman Catholic church and many Protestant church that split off from the Catholic church I encourage you to read the "OPENING PRAYER" and "THE WHOLE MATTER" first before beginning these studies. Then it would be best to read these studies in the order that they are listed for this is how they were revealed to me by the Holy Spirit. But no matter in what order you choose to read them I again ask that you carefully and prayerfully read them with and honest and sincere heart seeking only the TRUTH of the WHOLE word of Almighty God. "JESUS
THE CHRIST" "JESUS
OUR FELLOW SERVANT" "THE DEITY OF JESUS AND THE TRINITY" "DID
JESUS CREATE ALL THINGS?" "WHO
IS OUR SAVIOR; GOD THE FATHER OR JESUS?" "JESUS
THE NAME ABOVE ALL NAMES!"
Since the writing of the above studies in God's word the Holy Spirit has led me to write many more studies on this highly controversial study focusing specifically on the verses that SEEM to be saying that Jesus preexisted for all eternity and therefore some have concluded that this proves without a doubt that Jesus IS THE ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF. Here is the expanded list of these added studies that expose the ERRORS of interpretation made by those who dogmatically demand that our God is a TRINITY God or a TRIUNE God much like the false pagan gods who were being widely worshiped during the founding or the beginning of the Christian church.
http://www.antipas.org/books/trinity/trinity3.html
…..................
Isaiah 49:5-8 And now says the Lord that FORMED me FROM the WOMB to be his servant.... John 5:22-30 The Father GAVE his Son Jesus ALL power, authority and judgment... Acts 17:31 GOD will judge BY the MAN whom he has ODAINED... Romans GOD will judge BY Jesus Christ... Acts 2:22 A MAN approved OF God BY the MIRACALS which GOD DID BY him. Acts 2:22-30 clearly proves the doctrine of the trinity to be a false teaching and the Jesus is not co-equal with his God and Father. Acts 3:15 / Acts 5:30,31 / Acts 10:40-42 Ephesians 1:19-21 Eph 2:7? Hebrews 3:2 Jesus who was faithful to him that APPOINTED him. The word “appointed” here in every other place is translated as “MADE”. Hebrews 1:1,2 by whom he made APPOINTED the worlds (the AGES) IN him or IN WHOM he appointed or committed the ages. On account of whom he constituted the ages. He was a "man made strong" (Psalm 80:17);
http://www.antipas.org/books/trinity/trinity3.html "I Am From Above" (John 8:23). This statement is often used to teach that Jesus was in heaven before he came down to earth. The context of the verse, however, shows that this interpretation is incorrect. Jesus declared to the Jews: "Ye are from beneath: I am from above," then, in explanation, he continued: "Ye are of this world; I am not of this world." Christ was "from above" and "not of this world" because God was his Father, and he manifested wisdom and characteristics that were divine. A man who "loves the world" is "from beneath," or "earthy," but one who has "the love of the Father" dwelling in him is "from above" (1 John 2:15). Jesus told Nicodemus that a person must be "born from above" (John 3:3 -- margin) if he would inherit the kingdom of God. Such a. one is begotten by the word of God (I Peter 1:23; 1 John 3:9-10), by a "wisdom that descendeth from above" (James 3:15-18). The character that he will develop is one molded by the Word that dwells in him (John 17:17), so that he can claim to be "from above" though he was never literally in heaven. That is the sense in which Christ's words are to be understood. He was "not of this world" in the same sense as John exhorted believers to be "not of this world" (1 John 2:15). The Christ-follower is expected to look beyond the earthy things of this world to the glory yet to be revealed, and to become mentally and morally changed by the influence which is "from above." Christ provided an example of this. "I Came Down From Heaven" (John 6:38). "This is a hard saying, who can understand it?" asked the disciples (v.60). It was followed by one even more difficult: "What and if ye shall see the Son of Man ascend up where he was before?" So ridiculous did this sound to some of Jesus' disciples that they left him (v.66). And that conclusively proves that they knew nothing of the theory of a pre-existent Christ. Moreover, consider the title the Lord used. He described himself as "Son of Man." Was the pre-existent one a Son of Man? Evidently he was if this reference is relied upon as proof of his supposed pre-existence. What did the Lord mean by these difficult sayings? They appear at the end of a long conversation with the Jews, based upon the giving of manna in the wilderness, and the circumstances provide the key to their meaning. The manna is described as "bread from heaven" (John 6:32), and the Lord likened himself to anti-typical manna or "bread from heaven" (vv. 32-33). Does this description mean that the manna was manufactured in heaven, at the dwelling place of God, and wafted down in a thick cloud every night through the illimitable spaces above to the wilderness below? Or did God send His spirit to earth, and there manufacture it? Undoubtedly the latter, as any reasonable person will concede. That is the sense, therefore, in which we must understand the Lord's allusions to himself. Consider the circumstances of his birth. The angel told his mother: "The holy spirit shall come upon thee, the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee, therefore that holy thing that shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God" (Luke 1:35). Jesus was "the only begotten Son of God" and therefore from above. Paul taught that "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself" (2 Cor. 5:19). That which was in Christ (the Spirit) had come down from heaven, and tabernacling in the flesh of Jesus, ascended into heaven after his resurrection. That this is the true meaning, is shown by the explanatory words of the Lord himself. To the confused disciples he declared: "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing" (John 6:62-63). God, by His spirit, descended to earth to provide one of the human race capable of conquering sin (see Ps. 80:17), and having done so, He withdrew this one to heaven, having changed his nature from a body of flesh to one of spirit, for it should be clearly understood that a spirit being is corporeal (1 Cor. 15:44-45). Thus the Spirit ascended where it was before, though in a different form. It descended as the power of God; it ascended as a Son of Man made immortal. "The Glory I Had with Thee Before The World was" -- John 17:5 Do these words mean that Christ was personally with the Father from the very beginning? or are they expressive of the fact that God, as a wise Architect (Hebrews 11:10), foresaw the glory of His completed plan? The latter without doubt! This is shown beyond question because of the use of similar language in the same manner. Thus Peter taught that the Lord was "foreordained before the foundation of the world but was manifested in these last times for you" (1 Peter 1:20). John describes him as "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Rev. 13:8). Was Jesus "slain from the foundation of the world?" Typically, yes, in the sacrifices provided; but literally, no. In like manner, God, who knows the end from the beginning, foresaw the glory of the Son and proclaimed it through the prophets. The ultimate glory of Jesus was in the mind and purpose of the Father from the very beginning. He also provided for the ultimate glory of Christ's followers, so that the Lord prayed: "The glory which Thou gavest me, I have given them" (John 17:22). Do Christ's followers possess his glory now? They do not, they are merely "in hope" of it (see Romans 5:2). How can Christ then claim to have given it to them? Only in the sense that he has provisionally bestowed it, foreknowing that they to whom it is given in promise will fulfil the conditions to ultimately receive it in reality. Thus, an accepted follower at Christ's coming could well speak to the Lord as Jesus prayed to the Father: "Glorify thou me with the glory that I had (in promise) with thee before (this millenial) world began!" God foreknows the completed purpose, and knowing that He wilt bring it to consummation, is able to "call those things which be not as though they are" (Rom. 4:17). Paul taught: "God chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy, without blame before Him" (Eph. 1:4). If John 17:5 proves the pre-existence of Jesus, Ephesians 1:4 must prove the pre-existence of all who are followers of him! The same language is used of other men whom God has used in a special way. Of Jeremiah it is written: "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations" (Jeremiah 1:5). Does that prove the pre-existence of Jeremiah? If not, why should John 17:5 be used to teach the pre-existence of Jesus, and so be made to conflict with many other references which speak of him as the son of David born 1900 years ago? Similar language is used of Paul (Gal. 1: 15) and others. When Christ returns, his accepted followers will be granted a glory similar to that bestowed upon the Son. They will be "conformed to the image of God's Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren" (Rom. 8:29).
In CONTRAST we have the complete genealogy of the Son of God Jesus Christ from Adam the FIRST man all the way through to the SECOND Adam Jesus the CHRIST. Jesus the messiah was the promised SEED of a woman all the way back to Genesis. The theme of the entire Old Testament is PROPHECY of the COMING SON OF God, the Messiah speaking of a CERTAIN DAY in the fulness of TIME that a CHILD would be BORN. So yes, Jesus preexisted in the MIND and PLAN of Almighty God and of this TRUTH there is no doubt. But to try and force the word of God to mean without fail that Jesus preexisted as a ANGEL of as a SPIRIT BEING called the WORD to ME is going beyond what the clear, plain, and simple word of TRUTH is actually teaching us. Yes there is no doubt the Jesus CAME OUT FROM Almighty God. This TRUTH is found all through the Bible. But to DOGMATICALLY demand and teach that Jesus preexisted as the SON of Almighty God from all eternity in that the SON OF Almighty God the Father NEVER had a BEGINNING is to CONTRADICT the very word or truth, which clearly teaches us that the SON OF Almighty God did indeed have a BEGINNING. Please read the study “DID JESUS HAVE A BEGINNING?”, but for now let us continue this study in God's word to learn if the Bible teaches us that Jesus preexisted. Luke 2:52 teaches us that Jesus INCREASED in wisdom and favor with God and man. Psalm 80:17 a prophecy of Jesus being made strong by God for himself. So IF Jesus preexisted is some bodily SPIRIT BEING before the word was made flesh or became a human being, then whatever divinity the word once had was stripped away COMPLETELY when the word was made into a human body for Almighty God the Father to DWELL IN. Also please keep in mind that the Word can NO LONGER be the Word since the Word was MADE or BECAME a human being void of any divine power except that which was GIVEN to the SON OF Almighty God by the INDWELLING presence of Almighty God the Father himself through his very own self same Holy Spirit. Now IF Jesus preexisted only in the FORM of the DIVINE spoken WORD OF Almighty God, then when the SPOKEN WORD became a human being the word of Almighty God would continue to exist as it always has since the first time the spoken word was brought forth and spoken by Almighty God to create all things. But no matter HOW you INTERPRET the WORD to be the end result is always the same, which is the Word itself did indeed have a BEGINNING. The Bible teaches us that ONLY Almighty God has always had IMMORTALITY. The Bible also teaches us that God is a SPIRIT. The Bible also teaches us the Jesus over came sin by or through the ETERNAL SPIRIT. The Bible also teaches us that Jesus could do NOTHING in and of himself and that it was Almighty God the FATHER IN his Son Jesus who actually did the works of healing and raising the dead. So to ME, Almighty God the Father and the ETERNAL Holy Spirit are ONE and the SELF SAME INVISIBLE ETERNAL SPIRIT BEING who always possessed IMMORTALITY. But Jesus, the SON OF Almighty God the ETERNAL SPIRIT was GIVEN eternal life BY HIS God and Father. So to ME it does not matter whether or not Jesus PREXISTED as the WORD as a SEPARATE SPIRIT being, because once the Word was MADE flesh the Word set aside all the DIVINE power that it once had IF SO BE that it had any of it's own power apart from Almighty God himself. No where do I myself find that the WORD of God is called a SPIRIT. And no where do I myself find in God's word where the Word is ETERNAL, in that the Word has ALWAYS existed and therefore has NO beginning. But I do find many places where the word of God is BROUGHT FORTH, which in the original language means to be BORN of brought into existence. So then let us ASSUME that Jesus ONLY preexisted in the MID and PLAN of Almighty God as his spoken and written WORD and then let us look at the SOUND BIBLICAL evidence that support such and assumption to see if this teaching agrees with the WHOLE word of Almighty God.
JESUS AS THE PROPHSIED SEED!
Throughout the Old Testament the promise of Christ is proclaimed; throughout the New Testament the person of Christ is described. He was the "seed of the woman" promised from the beginning, to destroy the law of sin and death which was the product of the misguiding influence of the serpent (Gen. 3:15). The New Testament comments: "When the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth His son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law" (Gal. 4:4). If Christ pre-existed, how could he be described as the "seed of the woman?" Abraham was taught: "In thy seed shall all nations be blessed" (Genesis 22:18). Paul commented: "And that SEED is Christ" (Galatians 3:16). Would Abraham imagine that his seed (son) existed before he did? Of course not! Where is there any evidence in Genesis that Jesus was then living in any form? There is none! Moses, Israel's law-giver and leader, who typified the coming Law-giver and Leader (Jesus Christ) told the Jewish nation: "The Lord thy God will raise up unto Thee a Prophet FROM THE MIDST OF THEE, OF THY BRETHREN, LIKE UNTO ME; unto him ye shall hearken" (Deuteronomy 18:5). In the New Testament, Peter quoted those very words and applied them to Jesus Christ (Acts 3:22; 7:37), and Paul taught: "Therefore it behooved him to be made like unto his brethren . . . ." (Hebrews 2:17). Can the words of Moses above apply to a pre-existent angel? Could such a one be truthfully described as "raised up from the midst of thee," "of thy brethren, like unto Moses?" Only a false theory could possibly make those words apply to a pre-existent angel. Jesus was the son of David, and David was told: "When thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, WHICH SHALL PROCEED OUT OF THY BOWELS, and I will establish his kingdom for ever. I WILL BE HIS FATHER, and he SHALL BE My son (2 Sam. 7:12-14). The prophecy relates to Christ, as the New Testament comment upon it makes abundantly clear (see Luke 1:32-33; Hebrews 1:5), and with that clearly established, note well the future tense used in relation to him. God says: "I WILL BE his Father," he "SHALL BE My son." If Jesus were already in existence, should not God have said: "I am his Father," "he is My son"? Mary was told: "He shall be (not is!) great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David; and he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end" (Luke 1:32-33). These words of the angel Gabriel state that Jesus "SHALL BE called the Son of the Highest," and he shall reign on the throne of "his father David." Can these expressions apply to one already in existence? Consider also the preaching of the Apostles. Did they proclaim belief in a pre-existent angel who had assumed human form? They did not. Listen to Peter's preaching: "David . . . being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the FRUIT OF HIS LOINS, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne" (Acts 2:30). Whom did David believe would sit upon his throne? An angel who was already in existence? No; he believed the one who would reign there would be "the fruit of his loins," that is, a descendant. The boy born of Mary was a descendant of David, not a pre-existent angel assuming human form! Isaiah declared: "A virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel" (Isa. 7:14). That prophecy was fulfilled in the birth of Jesus (Matthew 1:23), whom Peter described as "a man approved of God . . . by miracles and wonders which God did by him" (Acts 2:22). In short, God revealed Himself in a man of His providing who became the pattern for all those who would approach unto Him in hope of eternal life. God does not expect that such will attain unto the perfection they behold in the Son, but He does require of them that they build into their lives some of the divine characteristics that they see there revealed. By so doing, they develop a character worthy of perpetuation in a body of incorruptible glory in the Age to come (1 Cor. 15:53-57). The theory that sets forth Jesus as a pre-existent angel, however, destroys this pattern, and mystifies and distorts the beautiful doctrine of God-manifestation in the man Christ Jesus. And remember that a correct understanding of the relationship of the Father and the Son is essential to salvation (John 17:3). “And now Jehovah the one forming me from the belly (“womb” in all other translations) as a servant belonging to him, has said for me to bring back Jacob to him…” (Isaiah 49:5). Psalm 89:27 I will MAKE him my FIRST BORN higher than the kings of the earth. “…your [David’s] seed...will establish his kingdom to time indefinite. I shall become his father, he will become my son” (2 Sam. 7:14-16). GENEALOGY: “I [Luke] resolved also, because I have traced all things from the start with accuracy, to write them in logical order to you, most excellent Theophilus that you may know fully the certainty of the things that you have been taught orally” (Luke 1:3, 4). If the idea of pre-human existence of Jesus were true, then from his own words, Luke could not possibly have left out this vital information for Theophilus to “know fully.” Luke firmly and plainly places the coming into existence of the Son of God at the time of his conception in Mary’s womb (Luke 1:32, 35),
In his detailed birth narrative Matthew uses the word genesis in 1:1 and 1:18. In Bauer’s Greek-English Lexicon genesis is defined as: “One’s coming into being at a specific moment, birth.” Also “state of being - existence” and “of ancestry as point of origin.” However, one’s actual origin — one’s genesis — implies the event of one’s coming into existence and so refers to the time of one’s conception in the womb and not to the event of one’s birth. According to all Greek-English lexicons the usual Greek word for “birth” is gennesis and not genesis, although this can also mean “birth.” However, “birth” is not the right meaning in the context of Matthew 1:18 because the next thing stated in verse 18 of Matthew’s account is that “Mary…was found to be pregnant by holy spirit.” So the word genesis, as used in 1:18, does not concern Jesus’ birth but his begetting i.e. his point of coming into existence — his beginning. So because the Greek of Matthew 1:18 has the word genesis and not gennesis it should never have been translated as “…the birth of Jesus Christ was ...” but as: “The origin of Jesus Christ was…” or “The beginning of Jesus Christ was…” Also Matthew 1:1 is best translated as “The book of the origin” of Jesus Christ…” or “The book of the beginning of Jesus Christ…” This shows that Jesus ‘originated’ in a line from Abraham, and so Darby’s translation reads: “Book of the generation of Jesus Christ.” In fact, Associate Professor of Religious Studies Dr. Bart Ehrman states that: “the earliest and best manuscripts agree in introducing the passage with the words: ‘The beginning of Jesus Christ happened this way.’ The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture, p. 75. Also Dr Hagner in the Word Biblical Commentary understands that Matthew 1:18: Picks up the genesoos, ‘origin’ of 1:1 and suggests that the Biblos genesoos, ‘record of origin,’ now reaches its goal. So although Matthew 1:1 involves Jesus’ ancestry — his origin because of his line of descent from Abraham through David, yet logically it “reaches its goal” when Jesus comes into actual existence at the end of that line i.e. his begetting as stated in verse 20.
MICAH 5:2 DOES NOT PROVE EXISTENCE BEFORE CREATION — BUT MESSIAH’S ORIGIN AS “ANCESTRY’’ The ORIGIN of Jesus goes all the way back to Adam the first human being. But more specifically this verse is speaking of the ancestry of David and the city of David.
WHY even bother with a HUMAN genealogy IF SO BE Jesus came STRAIGHT DOWN from Heaven as a SPIRIT BEING and entered into the womb of the virgin Mary to be born as a so called GODMAN who was supposedly 100% FULLY ALMIGHTY God and yet 100% fully human at the same time. The Jews were NOT looking for a preexisting angel or spirit being to come down out of heaven down to the earth to be the savior of the world. No they were looking for a MAN a HUMAN BEING whom God was WITH to deliver them. They were looking for THE CHRIST the ANOINTED ONE of Almighty God.
The ONLY reason argue for a PREEXISTENT Jesus is to try and prove that Jesus is the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF in the flesh.
But the whole word of God clearly teaches us that Jesus was a MAN a HUMAN being whom Almighty God the Father DWELT IN to empower his SON to do the works that he sent his SON to do.
No where do I myself find anywhere in God's word of TRUTH, the Holy Bible, that teaches us that we MUST without fail believe that Jesus IS THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF in the flesh.
But rather I do find where we MUST believe that Jesus is the SON OF Almighty God the Father and that we must believe in BOTH the Father AND the SON.
Ephesians 4:1 God chose us BEFORE the foundation of the world, but this does not mean that we all LITERALLY preexisted as spirit beings before mankind was ever created. The Bible teaches us that there is just ONE SPIRIT, And that ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT is Almighty God the FATHER.
WHAT DID THE APOSTLES SAYS? “Some of the crowd...began saying: ‘This is for certainty the prophet’. Others were saying: ‘This is the Christ’” (John 7:40, 41). “‘Who are men saying the Son of Man is?’ They [the disciples] said: ‘Some say John the Baptist, others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets’” (Matt. 16:13, 14). And John 1:49 gives Nathaniel’s recognition of Jesus as: “Rabbi, you are the Son of God, you are king of Israel.” In no case does anyone suggest that Jesus was a pre-existent spirit.
NO EXISTENCE PRIOR TO BIRTH ACCORDING TO PAUL The apostle Paul expresses Jesus’ coming into existence in the same terms as do Matthew and Luke. As generally translated Paul states that: “…when the full limit of the time arrived, God sent forth his Son, who came to be (Gk genomenon) out of (from) a woman…” (Gal. 4:4). However, because of the aorist participle in the Greek it is better rendered: “…when the full limit of the time arrived, God sent forth his Son, who having come to be (Gk genomenon) out of (from) a woman…” The aorist participles in this verse show that the “sending” occurred after the birth of God's Son, and not before his birth i.e. the time when he came to be or exist. Indeed the Greek word genomenon is from the form ginomai and this is defined as: “To come into existence. To come into being through process of birth (Gal. 4:4).” (Bauer’s Lexicon). This excludes the idea of one who came through Mary as would be the case with someone who had had a prehuman existence. If there was a pre-existence, then terms such as incarnation or transmigration or transmutation or transformation would be appropriate. But in the case of the Son of God, the Bible describes the beginning of a new person, exactly as prophesied in Psalm 2:7 and 2 Samuel 7:14 just as Galatians 4:4 quite clearly shows that Jesus was the Son of God precisely because he had a mother as well as a Father. JESUS’ GENEALOGY In the gospel of Matthew the genealogy of Jesus runs back through David to Abraham. The genealogical record given by Luke takes things even further back to Adam (Luke 3:38). Both Matthew and Luke had ample opportunity for mentioning a pre-existence if they had believed in a pre-human Son, but no such thing is described in their detailed accounts. Closely linked with Matthew’s genealogical list is the statement that Jesus came into existence in Mary’s womb (Matt. 1:20). The time and location of the origin of the Son of God are made 10 transparently clear. Luke also tells that the Son of God came into existence in Mary’s womb. (Luke 1:32, 35) and throughout the synoptic gospels Jesus is called
6. DID THE SON SPEAK PRIOR TO HIS RECORDED LIFE? “He [God] has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son” (Heb. 1:2). Jesus, the Son, became God’s spokesman only “at the end of these days” whereas God previously had used prophets and angels as His agents (Heb. 1:1, 2:2). If Jesus had been previously an archangel (Michael), then, as a messenger and as one “standing in behalf of the sons of your people” (Dan. 12:1) he most likely would have spoken for God prior to “the end of these days.” Yet in saying “to which one of the angels did he [God] ever say: ‘You are my son…” Hebrews 1:5 shows that the Son was never an angel. 7. NO BIBLE TEXT SAYS THE SON GOES BACK TO THE FATHER Jesus never says he will be returning to the Father as if he had been with Him previously, but says: “…and was going to God.” John 13:3 “I am going my way to the Father.” John 14:12, 28; 16:28 “I am going to the Father.” John 16:10, 17 “I am ascending to my Father.” John 20:17 The Greek is clear on this and the NWT, NKJV, NRSV, Rotherham, and KJV are main versions that are correct for all these verses. The NIV and some others wrongly report Jesus as “going back” or returning to the Father.
THE SON OF GOD (NOT JUST A BODY) WAS SACRIFICED “When he comes into the world he says…you prepared a body for me” (Heb. 10:5). This body was not something that the Son was poured into! If such was the case then only the body was sacrificed. However, it is plain from the Scriptures that the Son himself died (Rom. 5:10). The Son of God was the sacrifice offered as God’s “lamb.”
References like Isaiah 42,1 show how God sometimes speaks of future events in the present tense to express the certainty of their fulfilment. (See also Romans 4,17 KJV which shows how God speaks of things which do not exist, as though they already do exist). Certainly, in the New Testament there are some verses, which are sometimes thought to support the notion that Jesus pre-existed. However, if they are approached from the correct premise that Jesus is a man, and that men simply do not pre-exist, (for then they are not men!) a vastly different picture emerges. A few of these references are discussed below. 1.
John 1:1-2 The Greek word " logos " (logos), which is used here is NOT a proper name. (It does not have a capital letter, as is incorrectly shown in most translations!) It is a noun which simply means "a spoken word". It can also mean the inward thought which is expressed by the spoken word. Of course, in Greek, "logos", is a masculine noun. However this is no proof of personality! Many words which are neuter in English, are either masculine or feminine in Greek. For example, in Greek the word translated "beginning" in this same verse, is feminine. No one would seriously claim that this means that "beginning" should be regarded as having a feminine pre-existent personality! In the same way it is quite improper to give "logos" a masculine personality , or make it into a proper name, as the theologians have done. For a more detailed discussion of this subject, see Bible Digest papers Nos 6 &33. 2.
John 1:15 This does not mean that Jesus existed before John. He was, in fact, conceived six months after John. It does mean that Jesus ranks above John , not in time but by right of birth. The Greek verb "was" literally means "came into existence". The Greek word translated "before", can mean either "before in time" or "superior in rank". Clearly, it is the second of these meanings which is intended here. The verse is saying that Jesus holds His superior rank, not by right of prior existence, but because He was born to it as Son of God. 3.
John 6:38 Again, the words are simply a statement of divine origin - not of personal pre-existence in heaven. All Jesus is saying is that He is like the manna which God miraculously provided for Israel. (see verses 31, 32, 51, and 48 -58 of the same chapter). 4.
John 6:62 These words are spoken in the same context as the previous verse discussed. (See John 6:38 above) Certainly they do speak of His personal ascension to the place where He had His origin . However Jesus is not speaking about personal pre-existence in that place of origin! All that is implied is that, after His death and resurrection, He will ascend in person to be with the God who is the source of His existence. (and effective "spiritual eating" (see verse 52) depends on our faith in those things. 5.
John 8:23 For the Jews, the source of their physical existence and their spiritual values was "from below". This contrasts with Jesus, whose physical existence and spiritual values had their origin "from above". The Jews lived in the Kingdom of men. Jesus lived and served in the Kingdom of God. 6.
John 8:38 Any man who knows what it is to spend time with God in the secret place, ought to know what this means. In the place of prayer, deep within our hearts and minds, heaven comes down to earth and a man communes with God until he is able to speak, not on his own authority, but as he is taught by God. (John 8,28). 7.
John 8:42 This is simply a statement in Jewish idiom, of the biological origin of Jesus. Every Jew "came forth" from his father's body. (see Gen 15,4 and 2 Sam 7,12). In using this language, Jesus is expressing his claim for His divine origin and begettal. The one essential difference in his case, of course, was that Jesus came forth from his Father's mouth as a spoken word which accomplished God's purpose through the miracle of the Virgin Birth. 8.
John 8:42 Jesus is not the only one who was "sent by God". Almost identical words are used about John the Baptist. (John 1,6). And the same words are used of disciples to say that they also are sent in exactly the same way that Jesus was."As the Father has sent me, even so I send you". (John 20,21). These words when used about Jesus do not imply that He pre-existed in Heaven any more than they do for John the Baptist, or for us. 9.
John 8:56 This statement by Jesus refers to the story (in Gen 17,15-17) where God promised 99 year old Abraham that his 89 year old wife would conceive and bear a son. Abraham fell on his face before God, rejoicing in faith. God's long standing promise that the savior of the world would be his descendant (Gen 12,3) was about to begin its fulfilment, with the birth of Isaac. 10.
John 8:58 Jesus is usually said to be claiming the divine name "I am" for Himself. This is supposed to show that He is God and therefore existed before He was born! However a careful study of other uses of the words "I am" in John's Gospel, shows that they are used repeatedly by Jesus, without any suggestion at all that the divine name is meant. In fact,
the Greek grammar requires that in this verse, another word should be
understood as implied after "am". In other places, where
Jesus uses the words the translators have recognised this by
inserting the word "he". If this is also done in verse 58, as it ought to be, then we are left with the simple statement by Jesus that He is the one spoken of in the prophetic writings, long before Abraham's time. [For a more detailed discussion of this verse, see HOUSMAIL No 47.] 11.
John 17:5 God spoke in a similar way about Jeremiah. (Jeremiah 1,4) The words spoken of Jesus do not imply pre-existence for Him any more than they do for Jeremiah! All the verse says is that before the world, was made, it was God's plan to glorify Jesus. It does not mean that Jesus was present when the plan was made. 12.
Philippians 2:5-11 This is something Jesus did as a man ..... not something He did before He was born! "(He) emptied himself" of all human ambition for recognition, status, power and authority. (The KJV says "He made Himself of NO reputation" -- meaning no reputation amongst men ) For a more detailed discussion of these verses, read Chaptyer 11. 13.
Colossians 1: 15-16
In the Hebrew language, the word "firstborn" means more than simply "born first in time". It also means to be born as the first son of a father, the first of a family, who is by right of that birth, the legal heir to his father's estate. The word when used about Jesus, describes Him as God's first and only begotten Son, the first born of God's family, taking rank and precedence over all others, as the heir of all creation. He is first born in rank because of His divine begettal. He is also in a special sense, first born in time, not because He pre-existed His human birth, but because He is the first to be raised from the dead. (Acts 13,33 "This day have I begotten thee . ) He was raised (or begotten) from the dead, both as the firstborn in time, and the firstborn in rank, of all God's "new creation". (Col 1,17-18). 14.
Hebrews1:2 This does not mean that Jesus was actually present at the Creation, doing the work! What it does mean is that because Jesus was CENTRAL to the whole PLAN of Creation, it can be said that ALL came into existence by (or through) God's intention to be the Father of Jesus. In another "spiritual" sense, it can also be said that Jesus brought us all into existence by His death on the cross. Without that Adam would have perished unforgiven, in the day that he sinned, and none of us would have been born! This is another one of those areas where Biblical language often speaks of things which do not yet exist, as though they already did! (Romans 4:17) 15.
Hebrews 5:7 It has been suggested by some, that "a life on earth" implies another life before His time on earth. However, that is saying much more than is written! If there is a contrast, it is surely between His time on earth, and the life that He now experiences in Heaven. ( after His time on earth). CONCLUSION
it leads to great confusion. It becomes virtually impossible to regard Jesus as really a man. If, instead, we begin with the scriptural premise that Jesus really is a man, just like all other men, (with the sole exception of His virgin birth and His sinless life), there is no longer any "mystery" requiring us to abandon all logic. In spite of His supernatural origin, and the miracle of His virgin birth, Jesus is not himself a supernatural being. He is just like us in every way. He is a man who makes God real to other men. He reveals what it will be like for us when God lives in us, as He does in Jesus. That IS Good News. If it is possible for one man to please God, then other men are left without excuse for their failure. Other men also, can become what God wants them to be. Under the Lordship of Jesus, the grace of God not only forgives the past, but also guarantees that our sinful carnal nature can be transformed, until we have become just like the man Jesus.
WHAT BIBLE SCHOLARS HAVE TO SAY: CONFIRMATION FROM LEADING SCHOLARS: Raymond Brown was America’s leading Catholic biblical theologian. In his Birth of the Messiah he stated that Matthew and Luke: show no knowledge of Jesus’ pre-existence; seemingly for them the conception was the becoming (begetting) of God’s Son. (p. 31). Distinguished Greek scholar F. C. Baur says: “The idea of pre-existence lies completely outside the Synoptic [Matthew, Mark and Luke] sphere of view.” Church History of the First Three centuries (p. 65.). In the Hastings Dictionary of the Bible Vol. 4, p. 576 Professor William Sanday of Oxford noted that: …there is not a single reference in the Synoptic Gospels to Jesus having been the Son of God before his birth.
The TRUTH of the matter PAGANISM came BEFORE Christianity and even though the first Christians were Jewish Christians these Jews who believed that Jesus was indeed the messiah were INFLUENCED by the Gentiles or the pagan religions all around them. In the Old Testament God seemed to always be dealing with his people Israel who were being deceived into following the beliefs of the false pagan religions so why is is so had for some Christians to see that the SAME thing has happen in the Christians church. This concept of a “TRINITY” a triad of deities, or a triune god has been around many centuries before the Son of god was ever born. As I just said even God's chosen people the Jews were deceived into follow many of these pagan practices. In other words, paganism was MIXED with Judaism at different times in history where even the Jews worshiped some of the pagan false gods. What I mean by this is that almost all the pagan religions of the world worship a “TRINITY” god. Hinduism, Taoism, Buddhism, all believe in a trinity.
http://www.torahofmessiah.com/enyprexist.html http://focusonthekingdom.org/articles/Who%20Is%20Jesus.pdf Jehovah's Witnesses believe: They teach that Jesus was created by God just prior to creation. Jesus then created everything else. (Col 1:16,17 NWT inserts "other" before "things" to make the text read, "By His all OTHER things were created". The word "other" inserted throughout the text is not in the original Greek.) Jesus is not considered to be equal to God at all but a lesser being. Jesus ceased to exist at His death for 3 days. Mormons believe: "As man now is, God once was...As God now is, man can become." Is a saying that accurately describes Mormon view of Jesus. Mormons believe that Jesus was created by God and is a "brother" to Satan. Like H.W. Armstrong, they teach divine progression. Jesus was once just a man who lived on another planet. He eventually progressed to be equal to God and came to colonize planet earth with "gods to be" or humans. Unforeseen to Christ, Satan (Jesus' brother) put a kink in this plan when he deceived Adam and Eve. Jesus was then required to die for fallen man, His creation. Jesus therefore is a model for us and one day we will be equal to God and colonize other planets too. There are millions of other planets being colonized right now in the same way in other galaxies. What makes earth's colonizing process unique is Satan's deception of Adam. Jesus is the God of planet earth. The Mormon hope is to marry, through a Mormon Temple ceremony, as many earth women as possible for eternal celestial marriage. In the resurrection all good Mormon men will call from the dead those women they married in a temple ceremony. They will then fly off to some uninhabited planet with their many polygamous wives and populate that planet.
http://www.truthiseternal.com/pre.html http://www.truthiseternal.com/eprog.html
http://watchtowerinvestigated.co.uk/2013/08/28/the-jehovahs-witness-view-of-jesus-by-jason-wright/ http://www.becomingone.org/gp/gp4.htm
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/trinity.html
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DOES 1 CORINTHIANS 10:4 PROVE THAT JESUS PREEXISTED?
Some Christians dogmatically teach that without fail Jesus PREEXISTED as the second person of the trinity or as the Son of Almighty God the Father. Other teach that Jesus PREXISTED as an ANGEL who then changed form to become the Son of Almighty God the Father. And yet others teach that Jesus PREEXISTED as a SPIRIT being along side or WITH Almighty God as the WORD. But what does the WHOLE word of God teach us? Let us begin this study in God's word by reading this verse is question. Here is 1 Corinthians 19:4.
“And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.”
Now some Christians interpret this verse to dogmatically without fail mean that Jesus PREEXISTED in the Old Testament, because Paul clearly identifies the rock the Moses smote or hit with a stick in the wilderness was CHRIST. And then they say that Jesus IS THE ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF, because they take other Old Testament verses which clearly and plainly teach us that Almighty God Yehweh himself is the ROCK and conclude since Paul say Jesus is the rock and these other verse say that Almighty God is the rock, then therefore Jesus must without fail be THE ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF. But again is this SOUND BIBLICAL teaching based upon the WHOLE word of Almighty God? As I have said may times that any verse when taken out of context and viewed alone and apart from the whole word of God may SEEM to be something that it is not truly saying. So then let us read this verse in question being left in the context of where it is found. Please read 1 Corinthians 10:1-11.
“Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2. And were all baptized unto Moses (some Bible scholars teach that Moses was a type or figure of Jesus Christ and we as Christians are baptized in Jesus as the people of Israel were baptized unto Moses) in the cloud and in the sea; 3. And did all eat the same SPRITUAL meat; 4. And did all drink the same SPIRITUAL drink: for they drank of that SPIRITUAL Rock (Paul is teaching us a SPIRITUAL lesson from these things written in the Old Testament) that followed them: and that Rock was CHRIST (the ANOINTING of Almighty God or more specifically the ETERNAL Holy Spirit who DWELT IN Jesus, the SON OF Almighty God the Father. Whenever you read the word “CHRIST” do not automatically substitute the name Jesus for the word “CHRIST”, because the word Christ is not Jesus' last name. But rather this word means that Jesus is the chosen one whom Almighty God the Father DWELT IN to empower his Son to do the works that he sent his So to do. Please read the study “JESUS THE CHRIST” for a deeper understanding of what I mean by this.). 5. But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6. Now these things were OUR EXAMPLES, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7. Neither be you idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8. Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9. Neither let us tempt CHRIST (the ANOINTING or more precisely, the ETERNAL SPIRIT, who DWELET IN Jesus the SON OF Almighty God and Father. You see the truth of the matter is that Almighty God the eternal Holy Spirit himself was that one who stood before Moses on the rock that he instructed Moses to strike with the rod of Aaron. Please read Exodus 17. So what Paul is teaching us hear it for us NOT to tempt the Holy Spirit, the CHRIST, or the ANOINTING within us.), as some of them also tempted (Almighty God the eternal and invisible Spirit that went before them as a pillar of cloud by day and went behind them or followed them as a pillar of fire by night. In other words, CHRIST ro Almighty God did not DWELL IN the people of Israel as he now DWELLS IN us as believers in his Son Jesus, but rather was with them in the wilderness, But they tempted God saying is the Lord with us or not?), and were destroyed of serpents. 10. Neither murmur you, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11. Now ALL these things happened unto them for EXAMPLES: and they are written for OUR admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.”
So then, from the CONTEXT we clearly see that the literal physical rock in the Old Testament was a SPIRITUAL lesson TEACHING us of the coming the CHRIST, the coming of the ANOINTED ONE of Almighty God to be our Messiah, our savior, the atonement for our sins, our redeemer. But Paul was not just comparing that physical rock only as an EXAMPLE written for US, but ALL these things HAPPENED unto God's people FOR OUR EXAMPLE and OUR admonition. In other words, Jesus did NOT PREEXIST as that physical rock any more than Jesus preexisted as a literal physical LAMB that was literally ALREADY slain from before the foundation of the world, which would be BEFORE any lambs were ever created. NO! A thousand times NO! These were written for our EXAMPLE. These verses that SEEM to be teaching that Jesus preexisted in some form are TYPES, SHADOWS, and FIGURES or PROPHESIES foretelling of the coming of Jesus to be the Messiah or the savior, whom Almighty God himself would raise up from AMONG the PEOPLE. Jesus preexisted in PROPHECY foretelling us of his coming. These things HAPPENED and were WRITTEN for our example and for our admonition or WARNING. I mean THINK this through for yourself. IF SO BE that Jesus PREEXISTED in some literal form whether it be as the Son of Almighty God being the second person of the trinity, or whether it be that Jesus preexisted as an ANGEL or some SPIRIT being called the WORD that was WITH God, but yet was ONE and the SELF SAME BEING as Almighty God himself, then WHY does the word of TRUTH, the Holy Bible teach us in Luke 2:52 that Jesus INCREASED in FAVOR with BOTH Almighty God the Father and man? Luke 2:52.
“And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.”
Now IF SO BE that Jesus himself had always PREEXISTED with Almighty God or was Almighty God himself, then this would mean that Jesus would have ALREADY had or possessed ALL the favor he had always had preexisting with God from all eternity past. But yet the word of TRUTH clearly teaches us that Jesus INCREASED in wisdom and favor WITH GOD. Other verses like John 17:5 that are used to dogmatically demand without fail that Jesus preexisted from all eternity past and therefore concluded that Jesus had NO BEGINNING ever and thus is CO ETERNAL with Almighty God the Father can be interpreted in other ways that do NOT contradict any other part of God's word. John 17:5
“And now, O Father, glorify you me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world was.”
Now again when one views this one verse ALONE and APART from the REST of God's word it does indeed SEEM to be saying that Jesus PREEXISTED before the world was created with Almighty God as a SEPARATE BEING from Almighty God the Father who shared the GLORY that belonged to Almighty God himself. But when this verse and others are interpreted in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of God, then it becomes clear that Jesus UNDERSTOOD the SCRIPTURES that spoke OF HIM being the one prophesied to come. In other words, Jesus understood of the glory that the SON OF God would be glorified with by the Father was prophesied from the BEGINNING. Jesus understood that the scriptures spoke of HIM so when he read Proverbs 8 Jesus saw the THOUGHTS and PLANS of Almighty God an how his SON REJOICED before him in the inhabitable part of the earth BEFORE the earth was ever created for mankind. Please take a close look at Proverbs 8:22-31
“The Lord (YHWH Almighty God the owner and possessor of all, who we now know as the Father) possessed (acquired, owned, brought forth formed, created) me (Jesus or more precisely the WORD) in the beginning of his way, before HIS works of old (speaking of Almighty God's works).
24. When there were no depths, I (Jesus, the SON in the form of his WORD) was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25. While as yet HE (Almighty God who we now know as the Father, but was not yet actually a Father as yet, because his SON Jesus was NOT YET BORN or begotten seeing that HE Almighty God) had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
28. When HE (Almighty God the Father) established the clouds above: when HE (Almighty God the Father) strengthened the fountains of the deep. 29. When HE (Almighty God the Father) gave to the sea HIS (God the Father’s) decree, that the waters should not pass HIS (God the Father’s) commandment: when HE (God the Father) appointed the foundations of the earth: 30. Then I (Jesus, the SON in the form of the WORD) was BY him,(or with his Father, the Word was WITH God in the THOUGHTS of God or came to be in existence as as result of God giving BIRTH to his FIRST SPOKEN WORD to bring forth a SPIRIT being as his SON that God called his WORD) as one brought up with him: and I (Jesus, the SON being in the form of the WORD whether that be the IMAGE of God's THOUGHTS or and actual separate SPIRIT being) was daily HIS delight, rejoicing always before HIM; 31. Rejoicing in the habitable part of HIS earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.”
One can readily see from this passage of scripture that Jesus himself is saying that Almighty God the Father was behind all that was created and that he, God's Son was there with his Father BEFORE the FOUNDATIONS of the EARTH as God's delight rejoicing before Almighty God IN the inhabitable part of the EARTH that had NOT YET been CREATED. So clearly to ME, Jesus as God's SON was with God at this time before the foundation of the world ONLY in God's THOUGHTS, because HOW could Jesus rejoice before his God and Father IN the inhabitable part of the EARTH when the earth had NOT yet been created as yet EXCEPT in the MIND and the PLAN of ALMIGHTY God. So you see, when Jesus said glorify me with the glory I had with you before the world began to me Jesus was praying to his God and Father, I am getting ready to go through a time very shortly Father that when I take on the sins of the world you are going to turn your back on me, so I pray that you return me to the glorious delight that you had for me before the world began and before I was ever BORN. You see, Jesus knew the scriptures spoke of him. Jesus knew that he was the chosen one sent by Almighty God to become that sacrifice for mankind because the Spirit of God taught him morning by morning from the scriptures. Jesus saw the END from the Scriptures, but he still had to BELIEVE. And because of the joy that was set before Jesus he endured the cross for us knowing that his God and Father is FAITHFUL to perform his spoken word. So then, because Jesus became obedient even unto death on the cross Almighty God HIGHLY EXALTED his Son and GAVE him a name that is above every name.
Please read Psalm 89:19-27, which clearly teaches us that Almighty God himself is THE ROCK and God OF his SON Jesus.
Psalm 89:19-27.
“Then you (My God and My Father) spoke in VISION to your holy one (the Bible teaches us that Jesus separated himself to pray to his God and Father. And we are also told that it would take all the books in the world to tell of Jesus and even then all would not be told. So even though the New Testament does not specifically tell us of Jesus having a vision and what Jesus saw in that vision we still know that Almighty God spoke to his SON Jesus through visions and revelations by the Holy Spirit. So then Almighty God spoke to Jesus in a VISION), and said, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one CHOSEN OUT of the people. 20. I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him: (as in other places David is a SHADOW or a FIGURE or a PROPHECY or the coming Messiah, Jesus, the Son of Almighty God. In other words, through VISIONS and other means Almighty God REVEALED to Jesus that the scriptures spoke of HIM.) 21. With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him. 22. The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him. 23. And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him. 24. But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. 25. I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. 26. He (speaking of Jesus) shall cry unto me, You are MY father, MY God, and the ROCK of my salvation. (Jesus was saved from hell. God did not leave the soul of his Son Jesus in hell, but rather saved his soul alive by resurrecting his Son from the dead and giving his Son eternal life.)
In verse 27 we clearly see that this passage of scripture is a PROPHECY of Jesus whom Almighty God will make to be his FIRSTBORN child. Jesus is described as being the FIRSTBORN of every creature in Colossians 1:15, the FIRSTBORN from the dead in Colossians 1:18, and the FIRSTBORN among MANY brethren in Romans 8:29. And Jesus is the only one whom the Bible teaches us that Almighty God HIGHLY EXALTED and gave a name about every other name to be made a King of kings and a Lord of lords. You can read these verses later, but for now the focus of this study is to determine to WHOM the ROCK of the Old Testament is referring. Is the ROCK speaking of YEHWEH the Almighty, or is the ROCK referring to Jesus? And if so be that the ROCK is referring to Jesus, then does this prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that Jesus IS THE ALMIGHTY God himself? In other words, does 1 Corinthians 10:4 prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that Jesus himself PREEXISTED? And if so be that Jesus himself is proven to have preexisted, then does this prove that Jesus himself is THE ALMIGHTY God? Here in Psalm 89 we can clearly and plainly see that Jesus is NOT the ROCK, but rather Jesus is calling HIS God and Father the ROCK of his own salvation. There are several places in the New Testament where Jesus did indeed fulfilled this prophecy by crying out to his God and Father calling Almighty God in MY God, MY God, why have your forsaken me in Matthew 27:46, touch me not, for I ascend to MY Father and your father, and to MY God and your God in John 20:17, and then in Revelation 3:12 we read where Jesus called Almighty God his God four times in that single verse, which to me makes it blatantly clear that Almighty God the Father is God over his Son Jesus.
“ Him that overcomes will I (Jesus) make a pillar in the temple of MY God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of MY God, and the name of the city of MY God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from MY God: and I will write upon him my new name.”
Now some or the following verse clearly and plainly refer to Almighty God as being THE ROCK, as in, being a fortress or a defense to be trusted. Then in other verses in the Old Testament speaking of the rock that Moses snote with the rod of Aaron are most definitely referring to the coming Messiah who will give LIVIBF WATER to those who believe in him as the Son of Almighty God who died for their sins.
Exodus 17:1-6 speaks of the rock of Horeb that Almighty God himself stood before to bring forth the life giving water when Moses smote the rock. Numbers 20:1-13 speaks of the rock of Horeb that Moses was commanded to SPEAK to, but Moses smote the rock twice. Deuteronomy chapter 8 speaks of the rock or Horeb. Deuteronomy chapter 32 is speaking of Yehweh. 1 Samuel 2:2 is speaking of Yehweh. 2 Samuel chapter 22 is speaking of Yehweh. 2 Samuel 23:3 is speaking of Yehweh. Psalm 18 is a prophecy of Jesus who is speaking to his God as being his ROCK. Psalm 28 is a prophecy of Jesus crying out to his ROCK. Psalm 31 is a prophecy of Jesus calling upon his ROCK for strength. Now some INTERPRET verse 10 to mean that the person speaking hear could not be Jesus because this person sinned. But if you read this Psalm carefully you will see that men were seeking to take this mans life. Did not Jesus PRAY in the garden for strength right before he surrendered himself to be crucified? Did take Jesus freely take upon OUR sins as his OWN when he bore OUR sins upon the cross? Well this Hebrew word that is translated as iniquity carries that meaning of looking at the PUNISHMENT of sin. So another was to communicate verse 10 would be to say, my strength fail because of the punishment that awaits me. Psalm 42 is speaking of God being the rock. Psalm 61 is speaking of God being the rock higher than I. Psalm 62 is speaking of God as being our only rock. Psalm 72 is a prophecy of Jesus calling out to his rock.
Psalm 78 is the rock in the wilderness that was broken for the people of Israel. They remembered that Almighty God was their rock. It is not so much the rock itself, but what the rock provided for the people. What I mean by this is that Almighty God himself created the rock, created the water stored in or beneath the rock, then provided a way for the rock to be broken in order to bring forth water to give LIFE to SAVE the his people. Please read the study “WHO IS OUR SAVIOR---GOD OR JESUS?”.
Psalm 92:15 is speaking of Yehweh. Psalm 94 is speaking of Almighty God Yehweh. Psalm 95 is speaking of Yehweh.
Psalm 105 teaches us that Almighty God sent Moses who smote or hit the rock, but it was Almighty God himself who was the one who opened the rock to gush forth waters like rivers.
Psalm 114 again teaches us that is was Almighty God himself who turned the rock into standing water.
Isaiah 17 is speaking of God being the rock. Isaiah 48:21 teaches us again that God is the one who caused the water to come out of the rock/
Jeremiah 23:29 likens God's word to a hammer that breaks the rock.
In 1 Peter 2:8 and Romans 9:33 Jesus is called a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense to those who REJECT him as being the MESSIAH that give to those who BELIEVE upon him LIVING WATER to drink. So in the same way that Jesus is MADE to be both Lord and Christ, raised up to be a savior of the people, highly exalted to be made a King of kings, Jesus is made to be “A” rock that was broken so that whosoever DRINKS the water of LIFE that is brought forth by Almighty God from the rock shall LIVE and not perish. In other words, the whole word of God clearly teaches us that the literal physical “ROCK” in the wilderness was a TYPE or a FIGURE of the coming MESSIAH, Jesus, the CHRIST, whom Almighty God himself sent and gave to be broken for our sin so that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES that Jesus is the Son of Almighty God shall not perish by shall have eternal life. So then, while 1 Corinthians 10:4 says that ROCK is CHRIST and the Old Testament says that THE ROCK is Almighty God HIMSELF does NOT dogmatically mean without fail that Jesus is THE ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF as some FALSELY conclude. NOR does this mean that Jesus PREEXISTED as the SECOND person of the trinity as some falsely teach. But rather this verse simple means that the verses in the Old Testament speaking of the literal physical rock that was broken and brought forth water was a TYPE or a FIGURE that was a PROPHECY of the coming Messiah, Jesus, the CHRIST, who would become obedient to do all the will of his God and Father to be HIGHLY EXALTED and given a name above all names so that every knee shall bow and confess that Jesus Christ in the anointed one to the glory of Almighty God the Father. In truth every thing that Jesus is was GIVEN to him by his God and Father the ALMIGHTY. So the living water that Jesus will give to all the faithful believers was COMMITED unto him to do so by his God and Father who is over ALL including his SON Jesus. Again I do not teach these truths to bring Jesus down, but rather to show YOU who you truly are being IN CHRIST Jesus. I teach the HUMANITY of Jesus so you can see that the eternal Spirit, Almighty God the Father himself DWELT IN his SON Jesus and that this SAME eternal Spirit, Almighty God the Father HIMSELF now DWELLS IN YOU as a BELIEVER in Jesus being the SON OF Almighty God the Father. Please read 1 John 4:6-16.
“We are of God: he that knows God hears us; he that is not of God hears not us. Hereby know we the spirit of |