JOHN 8:14,23 JESUS CAME FROM ABOVE!

      SPELLING EDITED

 


JOHN 8:14,23 JESUS CAME FROM ABOVE!


DOES JOHN 8:14,23 PROVE THAT JESUS PRE-EXISTED 

AS GOD'S ETERNAL SON IN ETERNITY PAST?

 

DOES JOHN 3:31 teach us that Jesus PRE-EXISTED?

      

We all agree that Jesus came from God. We all agree that Jesus pre-existed in SOME form. But the controversy comes about as to HOW did Jesus pre-exist. What I mean by this is did Jesus pre-exist AS God's eternal divine Son being a SEPARATE person of the ONE God who was WITH the God AT his SIDE in all eternity past?

Or did Jesus preexist as an IMAGE which the only true God had WITHIN Himself as a desire to one day have a Son who He Himself would bring forth and beget on a certain day in the future?

Or did Jesus have his BEGINNING in eternity past as the Jehovah’s Witnesses teach?

Now, John 8:23 is probably the main verse of Scripture that is used by Christians who believe that Jesus pre-existed as God's eternal divine Son as a SEPARATED person, who was WITH the God AT his SIDE in eternity past because Jesus said he is not of THIS world. Trinitarian Christians also use John 8:14 and John 3:31 as well because these verses of Scripture say that Jesus was FROM ABOVE. Let us first read these three verses out of their context and then we will see what the Bible itself teaches us as to what these verses truly mean when they are interpreted in the light of the whole word of God.

 

 John 3:31.

 

“He that comes from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaks of the earth: he that comes from heaven is above all.”

 

John 8:14.

 

“Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know where I came, and where I go, but you cannot tell where I come, and where I go.”

 

John 8:23.

 

“And he said unto them, You are from BENEATH; I am from ABOVE: you are of THIS world; I am NOT of this world.

 

When these verses are read alone and apart from the rest of God’s word, they SEEM to teach that literally Jesus pre-existed up in heaven and came down to the earth as God the Son to become the Son of MAN like some other verses of Scripture. But is this what these verses of Scripture are TRULY saying when they are correctly interpreted in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of God?

What I mean by this is that almost any verse when it is viewed ALONE and APART from the REST of God's word may SEEM to be saying something that it is NOT truly saying. This is why we must compare Scripture with Scripture and also be sure to use the WHOLE word of God to see if what we have INTERPRETED agrees with every other part of God's word.

We really only have three possibilities as to HOW Jesus pre-existed. I will list these three possible ways in no particular order. 

 

#1. Either Jesus LITERALLY and ALWAYS pre-existed as a LITERAL SEPARATE person who was WITH God at His SIDE in eternity past without ever having a beginning as the doctrine of the Trinity teaches.

 

#2. Jesus was brought into existence as God's FIRST creation as a literally Spirit person who was with God at God’s side in eternity past as the Jehovah’s Witnesses teach. 

 

#3. Jesus pre-existed WITHIN the Almighty God as God's IMAGE, desire, dream. or plan to bring forth a Son in the future. And Jesus was brought into literal existence at his virgin birth and became God’s eternal Son after the cross.

 

So whichever interpretation one concludes, then ALL the verses of Scripture in the Bible must speak in AGREEMENT to whichever INTERPRETATION one chooses to believe.

Now. as for myself, I personally have chosen the latter interpretation #3 of Jesus preexisting WITHIN the Almighty God as God’s plan of salvation, and here is why.  Jesus said that he KNEW the Scriptures spoke of HIM. Jesus KNEW the PROPHECY in Isaiah of a CHILD being BORN of a VIRGIN spoke of HIM. And, therefore, Jesus knew by the revelation of his God and Father that the SOURCE of him being conceived in the womb of Mary his mother was from ABOVE. That is why Jesus said that he was from above and came from heaven. Also, Jesus was saying that HE is hearing words spoken to him from ABOVE that are NOT of this world, but rather, the words he spoke were from God. And that those Jews who did NOT believe in him were listening to THEIR father the devil that is from BENEATH. And, therefore, ALL UNBELIEVERS will REMAIN of THIS world and die in their sins, if so be, that they continue to listen to the father of LIES to follow the ways of this world. Jesus was NOT OF this world, in that, Jesus did not follow the ways of this world.

Let us now read the CONTEXT of John 8:23 that clearly teaches us that those from BENEATH are UNBELIEVERS only and NOT those of us who BELIEVE on Jesus as being the Christ, the Son of the living God, who died for our sins. Jesus says to us as BELIEVERS that WE are IN the world but NOT OF this world, which again, shows us that Jesus is referring to ONLY those who do NOT believe in him, as being the ones from BENEATH and OF THIS present world.

 

Please read John 8:12-32.

 

“Then spoke Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that FOLLOWS me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. (The subject of the context is about being a FOLLOWER of Jesus as the Messiah that was prophesied to come)

13. The Pharisees, therefore, said unto him, You bear record of yourself; your record is not true.

14. Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know where I CAME, and where I go, but you cannot tell where I come, and where I go. (In other words, Jesus was UNDERSTANDING that the SCRIPTURES that spoke of HIM and THE unbelieving Jews did NOT understand that the Scriptures prophesied of Jesus as being the Messiah. To say this another way, these UNBELIEVING Jews did NOT believe the prophecies that Jesus was miraculously CONCEIVED in the womb of the VIRGIN Mary without a HUMAN father. They did not believe that Jesus was conceived in the womb of the VIRGIN Mary BY the SPOKEN word of the prophecy of God. And they did NOT understand the Scriptures that spoke of the suffering and death of Jesus and his ascending up into heaven for a time before he would come to rule and reign and deliver them from the armies that seek to destroy them. The LITERAL translation reads that Jesus was PERCEIVING from where he came and where he would be going)

15. You judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

16. And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. (In other words, Jesus was saying that God was WITH him by DWELLING IN him. And that he was only speaking what God himself was teaching him to speak. This is one of the many, many verses that prove that Jesus was NOT Yahweh Himself during the days of his flesh because Yahweh was WITH the Son of MAN. Jesus said he could nothing of himself and it was the FATHER dwelling IN him who did the works bearing witness that he was sent OUT into the world FROM or BY God above)

17. It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

18. I am one that bears witness of myself, and the Father that sent me bears witness of me.

19. Then said they unto him, Where is your Father? Jesus answered, You neither know me NOR my Father: if you had known me, you should have known my Father also. (Later, Jesus plainly tells the unbelieving Jews that THEY are OF THEIR father the DEVIL which infuriated these UNBELIEVING Jews who wanted to KILL Jesus because of his WORDS or teaching about them having Satan as their father)

20. These WORDS spoke Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.

21. Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and you shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, you cannot come.

22. Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he said, Where I go, you cannot come.

23. And he said unto them, You are from BENEATH; (Meaning that these UNBELIEVING Jews were of their father the DEVIL from BENEATH) I am from ABOVE: (Meaning that Jesus is hearing, believing, and obeying his God and Father to TEACH the TRUE BREAD or TRUE TEACHING of God come down from heaven. Jesus was teaching the WORDS of God that the Father SPOKE to the Son of MAN, which spoke OF Jesus. So Jesus was simply repeating what he heard the Father speak. Keep in mind that Jesus was speaking TO the NON-believers saying) you are of THIS world; I am NOT of this world. (Meaning that these unbelieving Jews were OBEYING the god of THIS present world and that Jesus was OBEYING his God and Father who is NOT of this present world system. KNOW you NOT that whom you OBEY his SERVANTS you ARE?)

24. I said therefore unto you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe NOT that I am HE, you shall die in your sins.

25. Then said they unto him, WHO are you? And Jesus said unto them, Even the SAME that I said unto you from the BEGINNING (Speaking of the beginning of his MINISTRY when his God and Father SENT or COMMISSIONED His human Son Jesus to go out INTO the world to proclaim that the kingdom of God is at hand, Jesus was ANOINTED by Almighty God to SHOW us the Father as being the one true and only Almighty God. Please read the study “JOHN 8:24 IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE I AM!”)

26. I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that SENT me (Meaning that THE God who IS SENDING his Son Jesus OUT into the world in the present TENSE to reveal the Scriptures and to show us the Father who) is TRUE; and I speak to the world those things which I have HEARD OF HIM.

27. They understood not that he spoke to them of the Father.

28. Then said Jesus unto them, WHEN you have lifted up the Son of MAN, then shall you KNOW that I am HE, (Now, the unbelieving Jews falsely accused Jesus of making himself equal with God by him saying that God was his Father but they also said that they had but one Father who is God. Jesus DEFENDS himself by saying that he himself can do NOTING OF himself and that he is only obeying what his God and Father is telling him to do. Also, you need to know that the PROPHECIES teach of God ANOINTING a MAN who will be the Messiah and Jesus is saying I am HE the one prophecies to be the Christ which means the ANOINTED OF God) and that I do nothing OF myself; but as my Father has TAUGHT me, I speak these things. (Or I speak ONLY what the Father has shown me to speak, thus what I speak are HIS words and NOT my own words or my own TEACHING. But rather, the BREAD or the TEACHING that came down from heaven that speak of ME being given that teaching from God)

29. And he that sent me (Or more precisely the one who IS SENDING me) is WITH me (Also, teaching us that Jesus was NOT Almighty God HIMSELF): the Father has not left me alone; for I do always those things that please Him.

30. As he spoke these WORDS, many believed on him.

31. Then said Jesus to THOSE Jews which believed on him, If you continue in MY word, then are you, my disciples, indeed; (What Jesus taught was God's WORDS of a NEW COVENANT)

32. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

 

So then, the TRUE sound Biblical meaning of John 8:23 where Jesus says, “you are from BENEATH and I am from ABOVE” is that these UNBELIEVING Jews were being deceived by the god of this present world from BENEATH and that Jesus was following the TRUE teaching of his God and Father from ABOVE.

Please skip on down to verse 44 which is still the CONTEXT of verse 23 where Jesus says PLAINLY to these same UNBELIEVING Jews that they are of THEIR father the DEVIL who we KNOW is from BENEATH.

 

Please read John 8:41-45.

 

You do the DEEDS of YOUR father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. (Even these unbelieving Jews say that the one true God is their Father)

42. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, you would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; (Or for OUT OF the God I came forth and am arriving, Again, to me, this speaks of God’s spoken word of prophecy that came forth out from God arriving or being fulfilled) neither came I of myself, but he sent me. (The word Greek word translated here as SENT means SENDS or is sending in the present tense, as in, God COMMISSIONED or ANOINTED the Son of MAN to speak in Yahweh's name on behalf of God the word that God Himself gave to Jesus to speak)

43. Why do you NOT understand my speech? (Or my WORDS that I have heard from God which is the TRUE BREAD or TRUE TEACHING of God come down from heaven that speaks of ME) even because you cannot hear (Or understand) my word.

44. You are of your father the devil, (Or YOU are from BENEATH listening to the LIES of the enemy of the TRUE God, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode NOT in the truth because there is NO truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. (KNOW you NOT that whom you SERVE HIS servants you ARE?) 

45. And because I tell you the TRUTH, you believe me NOT.”

 

Verse 45 teaches us that BECAUSE one is told and believes LIE first then it is hard for them to see the TRUTH after sincerely believing false teaching. The Jews who did NOT believe are the ones Jesus is speaking of being from below believing earthly things. So again, Jesus is speaking to THOSE Jews who did NOT BELIEVE, telling THEM that THEY are from BENEATH by believing and following the LIES of their father the DEVIL.

Remember that if one chooses to dogmatically demand that Jesus must without fail had PRE-EXISTED as a SEPARATE divine eternal Spirit being who was WITH the God at His side and was sent down from out of heaven BY the one true and only Almighty God to come down out of heaven down into the world to BECOME flesh, then their INTERPRETATION directly contradicts 1 Timothy 6:13-16 which clearly teaches us that there was only ONE who has always had IMMORTALITY in Himself. Jesus was GIVEN eternal life to be having in himself after the cross.

 

1 Timothy 6:13-16.

 

“I give you CHARGE in the sight of God, who quickens all things, (Or who gives life to all things, or I give you CHARGE before Yahweh the one true and only Almighty God who ALONE and BY HIMSELF created all things) AND before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;

14. THAT you keep this commandment (Or I give to CHARGE before Almighty God and his SON Jesus THAT you KEEP this TEACHING) without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

15. Which in his times (Speaking of the first coming of Jesus and his second coming as well during the Millennial age of Jesus) he (Jesus) shall show, who is the blessed and ONLY Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; (The word Potentate means the ONLY Sovereign or ALMIGHTY God over ALL including being THE God over his Son Jesus. Some Christians think this verse is speaking of Jesus as being the ONLY Almighty God because Jesus is also called the King of kings and the Lord of Lords, but Jesus did NOT come to SHOW us HIMSELF. Rather Jesus came to SHOW us the FATHER to be the ONLY TRUE God. Remember that Jesus came to destroy the works of Satan, the Devil who is the “god” of this present world that wants to be worshiped as being the true God. Jesus clearly identified the FATHER as being the ONLY TRUE God in John 17: 1-3)

16. Who ONLY has immortality, (Meaning that Almighty God who is SPIRIT, the one and ONLY eternal Spirit, is the ONLY one who has always been IMMORTAL or ETERNAL has self-existing life in himself) dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; WHOM no man has seen, nor can see: (God is SPIRIT, who is INVISIBLE and cannot be SEEN with mortal eyes. But Jesus was seen by many people, and he will yet be seen again by every eye at his second coming. So then, the “WHO ONLY” is the who that has always been the divine immortal eternal invisible Spirit which is Almighty God the FATHER) to whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen.”

 

So then, IF SO BE that Jesus did PREEXISTED as a SEPARATE divine ETERNAL Spirit WITH Almighty God by his side, then that would make TWO, who always had IMMORTALITY, which would again be a DIRECT CONTRADICTION with the word of Almighty God, which we just read here in 1 Timothy 6:13-16 that clearly and plainly teaches us that there was but ONE ONLY who ONLY has always possessed IMMORTALITY within himself.  And that ONE eternal being, who has always possessed in himself immortality is clearly IDENTIFIED as being the INVISIBLE God who is SPIRIT. In other words, The Holy Spirit IS the FATHER seeing that the is but ONE ETERNAL Spirit. Please read the study “THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE FATHER!” for a deeper understanding that the Bible ITSELF truly only teaches us of TWO separate persons rather the THREE as the doctrine of the Trinity teaches.

Yes, Jesus is indeed a SEPARATE person from Almighty God the Father but he did not become a second person apart from the Almighty God until the word was made to become FLESH and dwell among mankind at the virgin birth. Jesus did not actually become God's ETERNAL Son until AFTER the cross when God raised up the Son of MAN from the dead and GAVE His human Son eternal life to be having in himself even as the Father has always had immortality in Himself. Please read the three-part study “WHEN DID JESUS BECOME GOD'S ETERNAL SON?”

So then, all of these verses in QUESTION that SEEM to teach that Jesus PRE-EXISTED as God's SON in eternity past do NOT dogmatically demand that Jesus MUST have LITERALLY pre-existed, without fail, AS God eternal Son, who was WITH the God AT the God's SIDE in eternity past. For you see, in TRUTH, they ALL AGREE with the understanding that Jesus KNEW that the word prophecy of God spoke of him as being the one prophesied to come. 

There is not one single PROPHECY of God the SON coming down from out of heaven down to the earth to become flesh but yet REMAINING the fully Almighty God having TWO natures at the same time, one divine, and one human.

NOR are there any PROPHECIES of Almighty God Himself coming down out of heaven down to the earth to become flesh but yet REMAINING fully Almighty God having TWO natures at the same time, one divine, and one human.

And there are no prophecies of God bring His Son into existence in eternity past and then sending his only begotten Son down to the earth to become flesh.

But rather, EVERYTHING we read in the PROPHECIES, concerning HOW Jesus would come, speak of the SPOKEN WORD of God’s PROPHECY becoming flesh.

Jesus UNDERSTOOD that the Scriptures prophesied of him as being the ANOINTED of God to be the Savior of the world. And Jesus KNEW of the GLORY that was set before him that would follow if he OBEYED his God and Father to do ALL his will including to ENDURE the cross.

1 Peter 1:3-13 teaches us that the prophets of old were desiring to look into this glory that was to follow in the world to come.

 

1 Peter 1:3-13.

 

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy has begotten us again (Or has begotten us by the gospel of Jesus Christ to be born again as God's NEW creation created IN Jesus Christ) unto a lively hope BY the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4. To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fades not away, RESERVED in heaven for you,

5. Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

6. Wherein you greatly REJOICE, though now for a season, if need be, you are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

7. That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perishes, though it is tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and GLORY at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

8. Whom having not seen, you love; in whom, though now you see him not, yet believing, you REJOICE with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

9. Receiving the END of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

10. Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

11. Searching what, or what manner of TIME the Spirit of Christ which wain s them did signify when it  (Speaking of the ANOINTING of God’s Holy Spirit that spoke to God’s prophets God's SPOKEN word of PROPHECY and inspired men of old in the Old Testament to write down those prophecies in the Scriptures. The Spirit of Christ means the Spirit of ANOINTING. It was the SAME Spirit who dwelt IN Jesus that also inspired men of old to write down the prophecies of God which) testified BEFOREHAND the sufferings of Christ, (Speaking of the ANOINTED Messiah of God raised up from among the people of God) AND the GLORY that should FOLLOW. (Can you not see that the disciples of Jesus did not behold the GLORY as of the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son of God until AFTER the cross which is when God glorified the Son of MAN, Jesus, and GAVE him eternal life?)

12. Unto whom it was revealed, that NOT unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things,which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

13. Wherefore, gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the END for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;”

 

I believe that Jesus UNDERSTOOD that the Scriptures spoke of him as being the one prophesied to come. And thus, Jesus knew that of his GLORY that was stored up in heaven being RESERVED for him. And BECAUSE Jesus overcame the world is the very reason that God HIGHLY EXALTED the Son of MAN to be made Lord and God over the world to come for 1000 years. And, WHEREFORE, if we gird up our loins to endure unto the end then we also have HOPE of the resurrection to be glorified and be made parkers of the divine nature of immortality to be like Jesus. 

So then, in John 17:4 Jesus is simply asking his God and Father to glorify him with the ETERNAL LIFE that was reserved for him to JOIN his God and be by his Father's side in the world which was planned for his SON BEFORE the foundation of the world. And certainly, all the prophecies are being fulfilled in the ORDER in which they were prophesied. In other words, a Son was born of a virgin FIRST. And then that Son of MAN born of a virgin was GIVEN to die on the cross. And then, a NAME would be GIVEN to that Son of MAN born of a virgin and he shall be CALLED the Mighty God WHEN the government is laid upon his shoulders in the world to come. That is what PROPHECY clearly teaches us without any interpretation needed.

Now please read Psalm 89:19-27 which clearly teaches us that Almighty God Himself is THE ROCK and God OF his SON Jesus.

 

Psalm 89:19-27.

 

“Then you (My God and My Father) spoke in a VISION to your holy one. (The Bible teaches us that Jesus separated himself to pray to his God and Father. And we are also told that it would take all the books in the world to tell of Jesus and even then all would not be told which the disciple saw as witnesses of the works Jesus did through the eternal Spirit dwelling in him. So even though the New Testament does not specifically tell us of Jesus having a vision and what Jesus saw in that vision, other than the vision on the mount of transfiguration, we still know that Almighty God spoke to his SON Jesus through visions and revelations by the Holy Spirit. So then, Almighty God spoke to Jesus in a VISION), and said, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one CHOSEN OUT of the people. (So God did not choose a pre-existing Son that He sent down from heaven, but rather, God EXALTED His human Son chosen out of the PEOPLE)

20. I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I ANOINTED him: (As in other places, David is a SHADOW or a FIGURE, as in, a PROPHECY of the coming Messiah, Jesus, the miraculously conceived Son of Almighty God in the womb of the Virgin Mary. In other words, through VISIONS and other means, Almighty God REVEALED to Jesus that the Scriptures spoke of him as being the one prophesied to come into existence by being born of a virgin without having an earthly father. Also, know that King David was anointed to be the King over the children of Israel as well. So parts of this passage of Scripture refer to King David in the Old Testament. So some things apply to both Jesus and King David while other verses apply ONLY to Jesus as PROPHECY)

21. With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.

22. The enemy shall not exact upon him, nor the son of wickedness afflict him.

23. And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.

24. But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.

25. I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.

26. He (Speaking of Jesus) shall cry unto me, You are MY father, MY God, and the ROCK of my salvation. (Jesus was saved from hell. God did not leave the soul of his Son Jesus in hell, but rather saved his soul alive by resurrecting his Son from the dead and giving his Son eternal life) 

27. Also, I will make HIM my FIRSTBORN, higher than the kings of the earth.”

 

Please read the studies “WHAT DOES COLOSSIANS 1:15-17 TRULY MEAN?”, WHAT DOES FIRSTBORN OF EVERY CREATURE TRULY MEAN?”, and “COLOSSIANS 1:15-17 WHO CREATED ALL THINGS?” But for now, in verse 27, we clearly see that this passage of Scripture is a PROPHECY of Jesus whom Almighty God will make to become his FIRSTBORN child. Clearly, it should be obvious to every Christian that King David was NOT the FIRSTBORN son of God. Jesus is described as being the FIRSTBORN of every creature in Colossians 1:15, the FIRSTBORN from the dead in Colossians 1:18, and the FIRSTBORN among MANY brethren in Romans 8:29. And Jesus is the only one whom the Bible teaches us that Almighty God HIGHLY EXALTED and gave a name about every other name to be made a King of kings and a Lord of lords. And ALL of these prophecies were fulfilled DURING the days of his FLESH and right after the cross except for Jesus actually RULING as the King of kings which will be fulfilled during the world yet to come.

You can read these verses and the studies listed above later, but for now, the focus of this section of this study is to determine to WHO the ROCK of the Old Testament is referring. Is the ROCK speaking of YAHWEH the Almighty, or is the ROCK referring to Jesus? And, if so be, that the ROCK is referring to Jesus in any of those verses of Scripture, then does that prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that Jesus IS THE ALMIGHTY God Himself or that Jesus literally pre-existed? In other words, does 1 Corinthians 10:4 prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that Jesus himself literally PRE-EXISTED? And if so be that Jesus himself is proven to have pre-existed, then does this prove that Jesus himself is THE ALMIGHTY God? For you see, even if one interprets the Scripture to mean that Jesus literally pre-existed, that still does not prove that Jesus is the Almighty God Himself.

Here in Psalm 89, we can clearly and plainly see that Jesus is NOT the ROCK, but rather, Jesus is calling HIS God and Father the ROCK of his own salvation. There are several places in the New Testament where Jesus did indeed fulfill this prophecy by crying out to his God and Father calling Almighty God saying MY God, MY God, why have you forsaken me in Matthew 27:46. Jesus also spoke of his Father as being his God saying to Mary magdalen, touch me not, for I ascend to MY Father and your father, and to MY God and your God in John 20:17. But Trinitarian Christians try to explain those verse away by claiming that the Father was only the God of the HUMAN side, as in, the human nature of Jesus. However, in Revelation 3:12 which is after the cross and the glorification of Jesus, we read where Jesus called Almighty God his God four times in that single verse, which to me, makes it blatantly clear that Almighty God the Father is THE Almighty God over His Son Jesus, even His now gloried highly exalted Son. And seeing that a God who IS the Almighty can NOT have another God over him proves beyond any shadow of a doubt the Jesu could not possibly be the one true and only Almighty God who alone is always clearly identified as being the FATHER. Please read the study “IS JESUS ALMIGHTY GOD?” which proves that the God OF Jesus is the only true God and that Jesus is the SON OF God.

 

Revelations 3:12.

 

“He that overcomes will I (Jesus) make a pillar in the temple of MY God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of MY God, and the name of the city of MY God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from MY God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

 

Now some of the following verses clearly and plainly refer to Almighty God as being THE ROCK, as in, being a fortress or a defense to be trusted. Then in other verses in the Old Testament, speaking of the rock that Moses smote with the rod of Aaron, are most definitely referring to the coming Messiah, who will give LIVING WATER to those who believe in him as the Son of Almighty God who died for their sins. They do not prove that Jesus literally pre-existed because they can easily be seen as TYPES and SHADOWS prophesying or the coming Messiah.

Exodus 17:1-6 speaks of the rock of Horeb that Almighty God himself stood before to bring forth the life-giving water when Moses smote the rock.

Numbers 20:1-13 speaks of the rock of Horeb that Moses was commanded to SPEAK to, but Moses smote the rock twice.

Deuteronomy chapter 8 also speaks of the rock of Horeb.

Deuteronomy chapter 32 is clearly speaking of Yahweh.

1 Samuel 2:2 is speaking of Yahweh.

2 Samuel chapter 22 is speaking of Yahweh.

2 Samuel 23:3 is speaking of Yahweh.

Psalm 18 is a prophecy of Jesus, who is speaking to his God Yahweh as the one being his ROCK.

Psalm 28 is a prophecy of Jesus crying out to Yahweh his as being ROCK. So again, Yahweh is the rock.

Psalm 31 is a prophecy of Jesus calling upon Yahweh his ROCK for strength. 

Now, some Christians INTERPRET verse 10 to mean that the person speaking here could not be Jesus because this person sinned. But if you read this Psalm carefully you will see that men were seeking to take this mans life. Did not Jesus PRAY in the garden for strength right before he surrendered himself to be crucified? Did take Jesus freely take upon OUR sins as his OWN when he bore OUR sins upon the cross? Well, this Hebrew word that is translated as iniquity carries that meaning of looking at the PUNISHMENT of sin. So another way to communicate verse 10 would be to say, my strength fails, because of the punishment that awaits me for sin.

Psalm 42 is speaking of God or Yahweh being the rock.

Psalm 61 is speaking of God or Yahweh being the rock, who is higher than I.

Psalm 62 is speaking of God or Yahweh as being our only rock.

Psalm 72 is a prophecy of Jesus calling out to his rock, who is Yahweh.

Psalm 78 is the rock in the wilderness that was broken for the people of Israel. 

They remembered that Almighty God was their rock. It is not so much the rock itself, but rather, it is what the rock provided for the people. What I mean by this is that Almighty God Himself created the rock, created the water stored in or beneath the rock, then provided a way for the rock to be broken in order to bring forth water to give LIFE to SAVE his people from dying of thirst. Please read the study “Titus 2:13 WHO IS OUR SAVIOR GOD OR JESUS?”. For you see, there can be TWO Saviors that are NOT one and the self-same being. It is Yahweh who is THE Savior that has chose to use a MAN to be the Savior of the world.

Psalm 92:15 is speaking of Yahweh.

Psalm 94 is speaking of Almighty God Yahweh.

Psalm 95 is speaking of Yahweh.

Psalm 105 teaches us that Almighty God sent Moses, who then smote or hit the rock but it was Almighty God Himself who was the one who opened the rock to gush forth waters like rivers.

Psalm 114 again teaches us that is was Almighty God himself who turned the rock into standing water.

Isaiah 17 is speaking of God or Yahweh as being the rock.

Isaiah 48:21 teaches us again that God is the one who caused the water to come out of the rock.

Jeremiah 23:29 likens God's word to a hammer that breaks the rock.

And in 1 Peter 2:8 and Romans 9:33 Jesus is called a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense to those who REJECT him as being the MESSIAH that gives to those who BELIEVE upon him LIVING WATER to drink. But Peter was also called a rock. So being called the rock or the stone does not make one to BE Almighty God Yahweh Himself.

So in the same way that Jesus is MADE to be both Lord and Christ that Yahweh Himself raised up to be a Savior of the people and to be highly exalted to be made a King of kings is how Almighty God made Jesus be “A” rock, In other words, Jesus was made a rock symbolically that was broken so that whosoever DRINKS the water of LIFE that is brought forth by Almighty God from the rock shall LIVE and not perish. It is always Yahweh PERFORMING His own word of PROPHECY where Jesus is the FULFILMENT of Yahweh’s prophesied word. Jesus is the spoken word of God made flesh that was PROPHESIED in the Old Testament.

In other words, the whole word of God clearly teaches us that the literal physical “ROCK” in the wilderness was a TYPE or a FIGURE of the coming MESSIAH, Jesus, the CHRIST, whom Almighty God Himself sent or commissioned and gave to be broken for our sin so that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES that Jesus is the Son of Almighty God shall not perish but drink of the living water and shall have eternal life.

So then, while 1 Corinthians 10:4 says that ROCK is CHRIST and the Old Testament says that THE ROCK is Almighty God HIMSELF does NOT dogmatically mean, without fail, that  Jesus is THE ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF as some FALSELY conclude.

NOR does this mean that Jesus PRE-EXISTED as the SECOND person of the Trinity as some falsely teach.

But rather, this verse simply means that the verses in the Old Testament speaking of the literal physical rock that was broken and brought forth water was a TYPE or a FIGURE that was a PROPHECY of the coming Messiah, Jesus, the CHRIST, who would become obedient to do all the will of his God and Father to be HIGHLY EXALTED and given a name above all names so that every knee shall bow and confess that Jesus Christ in the anointed one to the glory of Almighty God the Father.

In truth, every thing that Jesus is was GIVEN to him by his God and Father the ALMIGHTY. So the living water that Jesus will give to all the faithful believers was COMMITTED unto him to do so by his God and Father who is over ALL including his SON Jesus.

Again, I do not teach these truths to bring Jesus down, but rather I teach what I teach to show YOU who you truly are being IN CHRIST Jesus. You are ANOINTED by God to do the SAME world that Jesus did THROUGH the ANOINTING that dwelt IN him. The SAME Holy Spirit who dwelt IN Jesus now dwells IN you to empower you to live without sin and do the mighty word of healing that God did through His human Son during the days of hs flesh and no does through us.

I teach the HUMANITY of Jesus so you can see that the eternal Spirit, Almighty God the Father Himself DWELT IN His human SON, Jesus, and that this SAME eternal Spirit, Almighty God the Father HIMSELF, now DWELLS IN YOU as a BELIEVER in Jesus being the Christ, the SON OF Almighty God the Father. Nowhere in the Scripture are we taught or commanded that we must believe that Jesus is Almighty God Himself in the flesh in order to be saved. That is a man-made doctrine that actually teaches against Jesus being ANOINTED in the flesh.

 

Please read 1 John 4:6-16.

 

“We are of God: he that knows God hears us; he that is not of God hears not us. Hereby know we the spirit of TRUTH, and the spirit of error.

7. Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God, and everyone that loves is born of God and knows God.

8. He that loves not knows not God; for God is love.

9. In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God SENT his only begotten SON into the world, that we might live through him. (Again, the word translates as SENT in the past tense means SENDS in the present tense, as in, God COMMISSIONS the Son of MAN to go out into the world to preach the kingdom is at hand. The word commission means to give power and authority to one to accomplish the task that they are given to do)

10. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and SENT (COMMISSIONED) his SON to be the propitiation for our sins.

11. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

12. No man has seen God at any time. (Because God is SPIRIT and He is INVISIBLE so that NO mortal man can EVER SEE him) If we love one another, God DWELLS IN us, and his love is perfected in us.

13. Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and HE IN US, BECAUSE he (Almighty God the Father) has GIVEN us of his Spirit. (This verse along with many other verses of Scripture clearly teach us that Almighty God and the Holy Spirit are ONE and the SELF-SAME BEING. So we have Almighty God the FATHER who IS the Holy Spirit and we have God's SON Jesus whom God made become a life-giving Spirit by GIVING the Son of MAN, Jesus the power and the authority to JUDGE the living and the dead. Acts 17 teaches us that Almighty God will judge the world BY the MAN that He APPOINTED or ORDAINED)

14. And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

15. Whosoever shall CONFESS that Jesus IS the SON OF God, God DWELLS IN him, and he in God. (Nowhere in the word of TRUTH, the Holy Bible, have I myself ever found that we are commanded or taught to CONFESS or BELIEVE that Jesus HIMSELF IS THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God. But here we are CLEARLY and PLAINLY taught to believe and CONFESS that Jesus is the SON OF Almighty God the Father)

16. And we have known and believed the love that God has toward us. God is love, and he that dwells in love dwells in God, and God IN him.”

 

And since that God is IN us, then most assuredly God is WITH us. And since God is with us he must surely be FOR us. And since God is FOR us, then who can be against us. Jesus said that WORKS that he did YOU shall do ALSO. Almighty God the Father is our ROCK and Jesus His SON is our sure FOUNDATION.

But yet, in the LIGHT of all this evidence from God's word of TRUTH, there are some Christians who will say what about this verse or what about that verse because they have been dogmatically demand that the ONLY meaning those verses can have is that Jesus MUST, without fail, PRE-EXISTED as God the SON, the second person of a Godhead Trinity God who was WITH God by His SIDE from all eternity past WITHOUT ever having a BEGINNING. So for all the DOUBTING Thomas Christians I will explain in detail ALL the verses in QUESTIONS that I have been made aware that are used by Trinitarian Christians to try and prove Jesus literally pre-existed in the eternity past without ever having a beginning. You see, Trinitarian Christians MUST prove that Jesus literally pre-existed in the eternity past and that there are THREE separate persons or their whole doctrine of the Trinity falls apart. 

Thanks for reading and may God bless you richly as you continue to seek the truth of the WHOLE word of Almighty God. Below is a list of the studies I mentioned within this study along with all the other studies that I have related to this subject of HOW did Jesus PRE-EXIST. We all agree that Jesus preexisted is some form so the question is not IF Jesus preexisted, but rather, in what form as to HOW Jesus pre-existed. I myself believe that Jesus pre-existed as God’s spoken word of PROPHECY that first existed in the MIND of God as God’s PLAN of salvation the He Himself would perform and bring into existence one step at a time.

Your brother in our Lord Jesus Christ,

Brother Mark.

 

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VERSES USED TO TEACH THAT JESUS PREEXISTED!

Here is a link that will give you links to all the studies that I have written on every verse of Scripture that I have been made aware of that are used to teach that Jesus pre-existed and to try and prove the doctrine of the Trinity.

>>>VERSES USED TO TEACH THAT JESUS PRE-EXISTED!<<<

Simply click on the link and then scroll down to find the verse of Scripture that you would like to study to learn its true sound Biblical meaning when it is correctly interpreted in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of Almighty God. And then click on that link to read the study on that particular verse of Scripture. 

Thanks for reading and may God bless you richly as you continue seeking the truth of the whole word of God.

Your brother in our Lord Jesus Christ,

Brother Mark.

 

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AMatterOfTruth.com


         12. No man has seen God at any time (because God is SPIRIT and he is INVISIBLE so that NO man can EVER SEE him). If we love one another, God DWELLS IN us, and his love is perfected in us.

         13. Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and HE IN USBECAUSE he (Almighty God the Father) has GIVEN us of his Spirit(this verse along with many others verse clearly teaches us that Almighty God and the Holy Spirit are ONE and the SELF SAME BEING. So we have Almighty God the FATHER who IS the Holy Spirit and we have God's SON Jesus.)

         14. And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

         15. Whosoever shall CONFESS that Jesus is the SON of GodGod DWELLS IN him, and he in God. (No where in the word of TRUTH, the Holy Bible, have I myself ever found that we are commanded or taught to CONFESS or BELIEVE that Jesus HIMSELF IS THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God. But here we are CLEARLY and PLAINLY taught to believe and CONFESS that Jesus is the SON OF Almighty God the Father.)

         16. And we have known and believed the love that God has to us. God is love; and he that dwells in love dwells in God, and God IN him.”



             And since that God is IN US, then most assuredly God is WITH us. And since God is with us he must surely be FOR us. And since God is FOR us, then who can be against us. Jesus said that WORKS that he did YOU shall do ALSO. Almighty God the Father is our ROCK and Jesus his SON his our sure FOUNDATION.

            But yet in the LIGHT of all this evidence from God's word of TRUTH there are some Christians, who will say what about this verse or what about that verse, because they have been dogmatically demand that the ONLY meaning these verses can have is that Jesus MUST without fail PREEXISTED and God the SON who was WITH God by his SIDE from all eternity past WITHOUT ever having a BEGINNING. So for all the DOUBTING Thomas Christians I will explain in detail ALL the verses in QUESTIONS that I have been made aware. 

            Thanks for reading and may God bless you richly as you continue to seek the truth of the WHOLE word of Almighty God. Below is a list of the studies I mentioned within this study along with all the other studies that I have related to this subject of HOW did Jesus PREEXIST. We all agree that Jesus preexisted is some form so the question is not IF Jesus preexisted, but rather in what form as to HOW Jesus preexisted in eternity past.

             Your brother in our Lord Jesus Christ,

             Mark.

RETURN TO HOMEPAGE

AT

AMatterOfTruth.com