JOHN 8:14,23 JESUS CAME FROM ABOVE!

              

DOES JOHN 8:14,23 

PROVE THAT

JESUS PREEXISTED 

AS GOD'S ETERNAL SON

      

             We all agree that Jesus came from God. We all agree that Jesus preexisted in SOME form. But the controversy come as to HOW did Jesus preexist in eternity past. What I mean by this is did Jesus preexist AS God's eternal divine Son being a SEPARATE person of the ONE God, who was WITH the God AT his SIDE in all eternity past?

             Or did Jesus preexist as an IMAGE, which the God had WITHIN himself as a desire to one day have a Son who he himself would bring forth and beget on a certain day in the future?

             Now John 8:23 is probably the main verse used by Christians who believe that Jesus preexisted as God's eternal divine Son as a SEPARATED person, who was WITH the God AT his SIDE in eternity past, but they also use John 8:14 and John 3:31 as well They use these verse,because they say that Jesus was FROM ABOVE. Let us first read these three verses and then we will see what the Bible itself teaches us as to what these verses mean, when they are interpreted in the light of the whole word of God.

 John 3:31

He that comes from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaks of the earth: he that comes from heaven is above all.


 John 8:14

Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but you cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.


 John 8:23


          “And he said unto them, You are from BENEATH; I am from ABOVE: you are of THIS world; I am NOT of this world.


           

             These verses SEEM to teach that Jesus preexisted up in heaven and came down to the earth as God the Son to become the Son of MAN like many other verses, but is this what they are TRULY saying when they are correctly interpreted in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of God?

              What I mean by this is that most any verse when it is viewed ALONE and APART from the REST of God's word may SEEM to be saying something that it is NOT truly saying. This is why we must compare scripture with scripture and also be sure to use the WHOLE world of God to see if what we have INTERPRETED agrees with every other part of God's word.

            We really only have TWO possibilities as to HOW Jesus preexisted. Either Jesus LITERALLY preexisted as a SEPARATE person who was WITH God at his SIDE or Jesus preexisted WITHIN the God as God's IMAGE, desire, dream or plan to bring froth a Son in the future,

            So which ever interpretation one concludes, than ALL the verses in the Bible must speak in AGREEMENT to which ever INTERPRETATION one chooses to believe.

            Now as for myself I personally have chose the latter interpretation of Jesus preexisting WITHING the God and here is why.  Jesus said that he KNEW the scriptures spoke of HIM. Jesus KNEW the PROPHECY in Isaiah of a CHILD being BORN of a VIRGIN spoke of HIM and therefore Jesus knew by the revelation of his God and Father that the SOURCE of him being conceived in the womb of Mary his mother was from ABOVE. Also Jesus was saying that HE is hearing words spoken to him from ABOVE that are NOT of this world but are from God, and that those who did NOT believe on him were listening to THEIR father the devil from BENEATH and therefore ALL UNBELIEVERS will REMAIN of THIS world and die in their sins, if so be that they continue to listen to the father of LIES

             Let us now read the CONTEXT of John 8:23 that clearly teaches us that those from BENEATH are UNBELIEVERS.only and NOT those of us who BELIEVE on Jesus being the Christ, the Son of the living God, who die for our sins. Jesus says to us as BELIEVERS that WE are IN the world, but NOT OF this world, which again shows us that Jesus is referring to ONLY those who do NOT believe on him as being from BENEATH and OF THIS present world.

          Please read John 8:12-32.


         “Then spoke Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that FOLLOWS me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

         13. The Pharisees therefore said unto him, You bear record of yourself; your record is not true.

         14. Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I CAME, and whither I go; but you cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go(In other words, Jesus was UNDERSTANDING the SCRIPTURES that spoke of HIM and THEY did NOT understand that the scriptures spoke of HIM. To say this another way these UNBELIEVING Jews did NOT believe that Jesus was miraculously CONCEIVED in the womb of the VIRGIN Mary without a HUMAN father. They did not believe that Jesus was conceived in the womb of the VIRGIN Mary BY the SPOKEN word of God. And they did NOT understand the scriptures that spoke of the suffering and death of Jesus and his ascending up into heaven for a time before he would come to rule and reign an deliver them from the armies that seek to destroy them. The LITERAL translation reads that Jesus was PERCEIVING from where he came and where he would be going.)

         15. You judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

         16. And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. (In other words, Jesus was saying that God was WITH him by DWELLING IN him. And that he was only speaking what God himself was teaching him to speak. This is one of the many, many verses that prove that Jesus was NOT Yahweh himself during the days of his flesh, because Yahweh was WITH the Son of MAN. Jesus said he could nothing of himself and it was the FATHER dwelling IN him who did the works bearing witness that he was sent out into the world FROM or BY God above.)

         17. It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

         18. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me bears witness of me.

         19. Then said they unto him, Where is your Father? Jesus answered, You neither know me, NOR my Father: if you had known me, you should have known my Father also. (Later Jesus plainly tells them that THEY are OF THEIR father the DEVIL, which infuriated these UNBELIEVING Jews, who wanted to KILL Jesus because of his WORDS or teaching.)

         20. These WORDS spoke Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.

         21. Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and you shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, you cannot come.

         22. Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he said, Whither I go, you cannot come.

         23. And he said unto them, You are from BENEATH (meaning that these UNBELIEVING Jews were of their father the DEVIL form BENEATH); I am from ABOVE (Meaning that Jesus is hearing, believing and obeying his God and Father to TEACH the TRUE BREAD or TRUE TEACHING of God come down from heaven. Jesus was teaching the WORDS of God that the Father SPOKE to the Son of MAN, which spoke OF Jesus. So Jesus was simply repeating what he heard the Father speak. Keep in mind that Jesus was speaking TO the NON believers saying): you are of THIS world; I am NOT of this world (meaning that these unbelieving Jews were OBEYING the god of THIS present world and that Jesus was OBEYING his God and Father who is NOT of this present world system. KNOW you NOT that whom you OBEY his SERVANTS you ARE?).

         24. I said therefore unto you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe NOT that I am HE, you shall die in your sins.

         25. Then said they unto him, WHO are you? And Jesus said unto them, Even the SAME that I said unto you from the BEGINNING (speaking of the beginning of his MINISTRY when his God and Father SENT his Son Jesus INTO the world to proclaim that the kingdom of God is at hand and to show us the Father the one true and only Almighty God. Please read the study JOHN 8:24 IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE I AM!).

         26. I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that SENT me (meaning that THE God who IS SENDING his Son Jesus OUT into the world in the present TENSE to reveal the scriptures and to show us the Father who) is TRUE; and I speak to the world those things which I have HEARD OF HIM.

         27. They understood not that he spoke to them of the Father.

         28. Then said Jesus unto them, WHEN you have lifted up the Son of MAN, then shall you KNOW that I am HE (Again clearly showing us that these verse are NOT teaching CALVINISM, which falsely teaches that God created only certain specific individuals to be saved while at the same time created all other people for the sole purpose to be destroyed in the lake of fire and there is NOTHING that either group of people can do or not do to CHANGE their SUPPOSED predestined destiny), and that I do nothing OF myself; but as my Father has TAUGHT me, I speak these things(or I speak ONLY what the Father has shown me to speak, thus what I speak are HIS words and NOT my own words or my own TEACHING, but rather the BREAD or the TEACHING that came down from heaven that speak of ME)

          29. And he that sent me is WITH me (Also teaching us that Jesus was NOT Almighty God HIMSELF): the Father has not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

         30. As he spoke these WORDS, many believed on him.

              31. Then said Jesus to THOSE Jews which believed on him, If you continue in MY word, then are you my disciples indeed;(What Jesus taught was God's WORDS of a NEW COVENANT)

         32. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”


             So then, the TRUE sound Biblical meaning of John 8:23 where Jesus says, “you are from BENEATH and I am from ABOVE” is that these UNBELIEVING Jews were being deceived by the god of this present world from BENEATH and that Jesus was following the TRUE teaching of his God and Father from ABOVE.

             Please skip on down to verse 44, which is still the CONTEXT of verse 23, where Jesus says PLAINLY to these same UNBELIEVING Jews that they are of THEIR father the DEVIL who we KNOW is from BENEATH.

             Please read John 8:41-45.


         “You do the DEEDS of YOUR father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

                              42. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, you would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. (the word Greed word translated here as SENT means SENDS in the present tense, as in, God COMMISSIONS the Son of MAN to speak in Yahweh's behalf for God.)

                43. Why do you NOT understand my speech (or my WORDS that I have heard from God, which is the TRUE BREAD or TRUE TEACHING of God come down from heaven that speak of ME)? even because you cannot hear (or understand) my word.

          44. You are of your father the devil (or YOU are from BENEATH listening to the LIES of the enemy of the TRUE God), and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode NOT in the truth, because there is NO truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (KNOW you NOT that whom you SERVE HIS servants you ARE?)

                               45. And because I tell you the TRUTH, you believe me NOT.”


             Verse 45 teaches us the BECAUSE one is told and believes  LIE first it is hard for them to see the TRUTH. They Jews who did NOT believe are the ones Jesus is speaking of being from below believe earthly things. So again Jesus is speaking to THOSE Jews, who did NOT BELIEVE telling THEM that THEY are from BENEATH by believing and following the LIES of their father the DEVIL.

             Remember that if one chooses to dogmatically demand that Jesus must without fail had PREEXISTED as a SEPARATE divine eternal Spirit being who was WITH the God at his side and was sent down from out of heaven by the God down into the world to BECOME flesh, then their INTERPRETATION directly contradicts 1 Timothy 6:13-16 which clearly teaches us that there was only ONE who has always had IMMORTALITY in himself.

             1 Timothy 6:13-16.


         “I give you CHARGE in the sight of God, who quickens all things (or who gives life to all things, or I give you CHARGE before Yahweh the one true and only Almighty God who ALONE and BY HIMSELF created all things), AND before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;

         14. THAT you keep this commandment (or I give to CHARGE before Almighty God and his SON Jesus THAT you KEEP this TEACHING) without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

         15. Which in his times (speaking of the first coming of Jesus and his second coming as well) he (Jesus) shall show, who is the blessed and ONLY Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; (The word Potentate means the ONLY Sovereign or ALMIGHTY God over ALL including being THE God over his Son Jesus. Some Christians think this verse is speaking of Jesus as being the ONLY Almighty God, because Jesus is also called the King of kings and the Lord of Lords, but Jesus did NOT come to SHOW us HIMSELF. Rather Jesus came to SHOW us the FATHER to be the ONLY TRUE God.

            16. Who ONLY has immortality (meaning that Almighty Go,. who is SPIRIT, the one and ONLY eternal Spirit, is the ONLY one who has always been IMMORTAL or ETERNAL has self existing life in himself), dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; WHOM no man has seen, nor can see (God is SPIRIT, who is INVISIBLE and cannot be SEEN with mortal eyes. But Jesus was seen by many people, and he will yet be seen again by every eye at his second coming. So then the "WHO ONLY", who has always been the divine immortal eternal invisible Spirit is Almighty God the FATHER): to whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen.”


             So then, IF SO BE that Jesus did PREEXISTED as a SEPARATE divine ETERNAL Spirit WITH Almighty God by his side, then that would make TWO, who always had IMMORTALITY, which would again be a DIRECT CONTRADICTION with the word of Almighty God, which we just read here in 1 Timothy 6:13-16 that clearly and plainly teaches us that there was but ONE ONLY who ONLY has always possessed IMMORTALITY within himself.  And that ONE eternal being, who has always possessed in himself immortality is clearly IDENTIFIED as being the INVISIBLE God who is SPIRIT. In other words, The Holy Spirit IS the FATHER seeing that the is but ONE ETERNAL Spirit. Please read the study "THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE FATHER!" for a deeper understanding that the Bible ITSELF truly only teaches us of TWO separate persons rather the THREE as the doctrine of the trinity teaches.

              Yes, Jesus is indeed a SEPARATE person from Almighty God the Father, but he did not become a second person apart from the God, until the word was made to become FLESH and dwell among mankind. Jesus did not actually become God's ETERNAL Son, until AFTER the cross, when God raised up the Son of MAN and Gave the Son eternal life to have in himself even as the Father has always had immortality in himself. Please read the study "WHEN DID JESUS BECOME GOD'S ETERNAL SON?".

            So then, all of these verses in QUESTION that SEEM to teach that Jesus PREEXISTED as God's SON in eternity past do NOT dogmatically demand that Jesus MUST have preexisted without fail AS God eternal Son, who was WITH the God AT the God's SIDE in eternity past, because in TRUTH they ALL AGREE with the understanding that Jesus KNEW that the word of God spoke of HIM. 

            There is not one single PROPHECY of God the SON coming down from out of heaven down to the earth to become flesh, but yet REMAINING fully God having TWO natures, one divine and one human.

             NOR are there any PROPHECIES of Almighty God himself coming down out of heaven down to the earth to become flesh, but yet REMAINING fully Almighty God having TWO natures one divine and one human.

             But rather EVERY THING we read in the PROPHECIES, concerning HOW Jesus would come, speak of the SPOKEN WORD of God becoming flesh having stripped himself or itself of ALL his or its DIVINE nature to take on the nature of the HUMANS. Please read the study "PHILIPPIANS 2:6-11 PROVES PREEXISTENCE!".

             Jesus UNDERSTOOD the scriptures and KNEW of the GLORY that would follow if he OBEYED his God and Father to do ALL his will.

             1 Peter 1:3-13 teaches us that the prophets of old were desiring to look into this glory that was to follow in the world to come.

             1 Peter 1:3-13

         “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy has begotten us again (or has begotten us by the gospel of Jesus Christ to be born again as God's NEW creation created IN Jesus Christ) unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
          4. To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fades not away, RESERVED in heaven for you,
         5. Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
         6. Wherein you greatly REJOICE, though now for a season, if need be, you are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
         7. That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perishes, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and GLORY at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
         8. Whom having not seen, you love; in whom, though now you see him not, yet believing, you REJOICE with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
         9. Receiving the END of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
         10. Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
         11. Searching what, or what manner of TIME the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it (God's SPOKEN word of PROPHECY written down by men of old in the Old Testament scriptures) testified BEFOREHAND the sufferings of Christ, AND the GLORY that should FOLLOW.
         12. Unto whom it was revealed, that NOT unto themselves, but unto US they did minister the things,which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
         13. Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the END for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;”


             I believe that Jesus UNDERSTOOD that the scriptures spoke of HIM and so Jesus knew that this GLORY was stored up in heaven being RESERVED for him. So in John 17:4 Jesus is simply asking his God and Father to glorify him with the ETERNAL LIFE that was reserved for him by his Father's side which was planned for his SON BEFORE the foundation of the world and certainly given to him before the world to come.

             Now please read Psalm 89:19-27, which clearly teaches us that Almighty God himself is THE ROCK and God OF his SON Jesus.


             Psalm 89:19-27.


         “Then you (My God and My Father) spoke in a VISION to your holy one (the Bible teaches us that Jesus separated himself to pray to his God and Father. And we are also told that it would take all the books in the world to tell of Jesus and even then all would not be told. So even though the New Testament does not specifically tell us of Jesus having a vision and what Jesus saw in that vision, other than the vision on the mount of transfiguration, we still know that Almighty God spoke to his SON Jesus through visions and revelations by the Holy Spirit. So then, Almighty God spoke to Jesus in a VISION), and said, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one CHOSEN OUT of the people.

         20. I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him: (as in other places David is a SHADOW or a FIGURE or a PROPHECY or the coming Messiah, Jesus, the Son of Almighty God. In other words, through VISIONS and other means Almighty God REVEALED to Jesus that the scriptures spoke of HIM.)

         21. With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.

         22. The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.

         23. And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.

         24. But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.

         25. I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.

         26. He (speaking of Jesus) shall cry unto me, You are MY father, MY God, and the ROCK of my salvation(Jesus was saved from hell. God did not leave the soul of his Son Jesus in hell, but rather saved his soul alive by resurrecting his Son from the dead and giving his Son eternal life.) 

         27. Also I will make HIM my FIRSTBORN, higher than the kings of the earth.”


             In verse 27 we clearly see that this passage of scripture is a PROPHECY of Jesus whom Almighty God will make to become his FIRSTBORN child. Jesus is described as being the FIRSTBORN of every creature in Colossians 1:15, the FIRSTBORN from the dead in Colossians 1:18, and the FIRSTBORN among MANY brethren in Romans 8:29. And Jesus is the only one whom the Bible teaches us that Almighty God HIGHLY EXALTED and gave a name about every other name to be made a King of kings and a Lord of lords. And ALL of these prophecies were fulfilled DURING the days of his FLESH.

             You can read these verses later, but for now the focus of this section of this study is to determine to WHOM the ROCK of the Old Testament is referring. Is the ROCK speaking of YAHWEH the Almighty, or is the ROCK referring to Jesus? And, if so be, that the ROCK is referring to Jesus, then does this prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that Jesus IS THE ALMIGHTY God himself? In other words, does 1 Corinthians 10:4 prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that Jesus himself PREEXISTED? And if so be that Jesus himself is proven to have preexisted, then does this prove that Jesus himself is THE ALMIGHTY God?

             Here in Psalm 89 we can clearly and plainly see that Jesus is NOT the ROCK, but rather Jesus is calling HIS God and Father the ROCK of his own salvation. There are several places in the New Testament where Jesus did indeed fulfilled this prophecy by crying out to his God and Father calling Almighty God in MY God, MY God, why have your forsaken me in Matthew 27:46, touch me not, for I ascend to MY Father and your father, and to MY God and your God in John 20:17, and then in Revelation 3:12 we read where Jesus called Almighty God his God four times in that single verse, which to me makes it blatantly clear that Almighty God the Father is THE God over his Son Jesus.

             Revelations 3:12.


         “Him that overcomes will I (Jesus) make a pillar in the temple of MY God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of MY God, and the name of the city of MY God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from MY God: and I will write upon him my new name.”


             Now some or the following verse clearly and plainly refer to Almighty God as being THE ROCK, as in, being a fortress or a defense to be trusted. Then in other verses in the Old Testament speaking of the rock that Moses smote with the rod of Aaron are most definitely referring to the coming Messiah, who will give LIVING WATER to those who believe in him as the Son of Almighty God who died for their sins.


             Exodus 17:1-6 speaks of the rock of Horeb that Almighty God himself stood before to bring forth the life giving water when Moses smote the rock.

             Numbers 20:1-13 speaks of the rock of Horeb that Moses was commanded to SPEAK to, but Moses smote the rock twice.

             Deuteronomy chapter 8 speaks of the rock or Horeb.

             Deuteronomy chapter 32 is speaking of Yahweh.

             1 Samuel 2:2 is speaking of Yahweh.

             2 Samuel chapter 22 is speaking of Yahweh.

             2 Samuel 23:3 is speaking of Yahweh.

             Psalm 18 is a prophecy of Jesus, who is speaking to his God Yahweh as being his ROCK.

             Psalm 28 is a prophecy of Jesus crying out to Yahweh his ROCK.

             Psalm 31 is a prophecy of Jesus calling upon Yahweh his ROCK for strength. 

             Now some INTERPRET verse 10 to mean that the person speaking here could not be Jesus because this person sinned. But if you read this Psalm carefully you will see that men were seeking to take this mans life. Did not Jesus PRAY in the garden for strength right before he surrendered himself to be crucified? Did take Jesus freely take upon OUR sins as his OWN when he bore OUR sins upon the cross? Well this Hebrew word that is translated as iniquity carries that meaning of looking at the PUNISHMENT of sin. So another way to communicate verse 10 would be to say, my strength fails, because of the punishment that awaits me.

             Psalm 42 is speaking of God or Yahweh being the rock.

             Psalm 61 is speaking of God or Yahweh being the rock, who is higher than I.

             Psalm 62 is speaking of God or Yahweh as being our only rock.

             Psalm 72 is a prophecy of Jesus calling out to his rock, who is Yahweh.


             Psalm 78 is the rock in the wilderness that was broken for the people of Israel. 

             They remembered that Almighty God was their rock. It is not so much the rock itself, but what the rock provided for the people. What I mean by this is that Almighty God himself created the rock, created the water stored in or beneath the rock, then provided a way for the rock to be broken in order to bring forth water to give LIFE to SAVE the his people. Please read the study “Titus 2:13 WHO IS OUR SAVIOR GOD OR JESUS?”.


             Psalm 92:15 is speaking of Yahweh.

             Psalm 94 is speaking of Almighty God Yahweh.

             Psalm 95 is speaking of Yahweh.

             Psalm 105 teaches us that Almighty God sent Moses, who smote or hit the rock, but it was Almighty God himself who was the one who opened the rock to gush forth waters like rivers.

             Psalm 114 again teaches us that is was Almighty God himself who turned the rock into standing water.


             Isaiah 17 is speaking of God or Yahweh as being the rock.

             Isaiah 48:21 teaches us again that God is the one who caused the water to come out of the rock.

             Jeremiah 23:29 likens God's word to a hammer that breaks the rock.

             In 1 Peter 2:8 and Romans 9:33 Jesus is called a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense to those, who REJECT him as being the MESSIAH that give to those who BELIEVE upon him LIVING WATER to drink. But Peter was also called a rock. So being called a rock or stone does not make one to BE Almighty God Yahweh himself.

             So in the same way that Jesus is MADE to be both Lord and Christ, raised up to be a savior of the people, highly exalted to be made a King of kings, Jesus is made to be “A” rock that was broken so that whosoever DRINKS the water of LIFE that is brought forth by Almighty God from the rock shall LIVE and not perish.

             In other words, the whole word of God clearly teaches us that the literal physical “ROCK” in the wilderness was a TYPE or a FIGURE of the coming MESSIAH, Jesus, the CHRIST, whom Almighty God himself sent and gave to be broken for our sin so that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES that Jesus is the Son of Almighty God shall not perish by shall have eternal life.

             So then, while 1 Corinthians 10:4 says that ROCK is CHRIST and the Old Testament says that THE ROCK is Almighty God HIMSELF does NOT dogmatically mean without fail that  Jesus is THE ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF as some FALSELY conclude.

             NOR does this mean that Jesus PREEXISTED as the SECOND person of the trinity as some falsely teach.

             But rather this verse simple means that the verses in the Old Testament speaking of the literal physical rock that was broken and brought forth water was a TYPE or a FIGURE that was a PROPHECY of the coming Messiah, Jesus, the CHRIST, who would become obedient to do all the will of his God and Father to be HIGHLY EXALTED and given a name above all names so that every knee shall bow and confess that Jesus Christ in the anointed one to the glory of Almighty God the Father.

             In truth every thing that Jesus is was GIVEN to him by his God and Father the ALMIGHTY. So the living water that Jesus will give to all the faithful believers was COMMITTED unto him to do so by his God and Father who is over ALL including his SON Jesus.

             Again I do not teach these truths to bring Jesus down, but rather to show YOU who you truly are being IN CHRIST Jesus. I teach the HUMANITY of Jesus so you can see that the eternal Spirit, Almighty God the Father himself DWELT IN his SON Jesus and that this SAME eternal Spirit, Almighty God the Father HIMSELF now DWELLS IN YOU as a BELIEVER in Jesus being the SON OF Almighty God the Father. 

             Please read 1 John 4:6-16.


         “We are of God: he that knows God hears us; he that is not of God hears not us. Hereby know we the spirit of TRUTH, and the spirit of error.

         7. Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loves is born of God, and knows God.

         8. He that loves not knows not God; for God is love.

                           9. In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God SENT his only begotten SON into the world, that we might live through him. (again the word translates as SENT in the past tense means SENDS in the present tense, as in, God COMMISSION the Son of MAN to go out into the world to preach the kingdom is at hand. The word commission means to give power and authority to one to accomplish the task that they are given to do.)

                       10. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and SENT (COMMISSIONED) his SON to be the propitiation for our sins.

         11. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

         12. No man has seen God at any time (because God is SPIRIT and he is INVISIBLE so that NO man can EVER SEE him). If we love one another, God DWELLS IN us, and his love is perfected in us.

         13. Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and HE IN USBECAUSE he (Almighty God the Father) has GIVEN us of his Spirit(this verse along with many others verse clearly teaches us that Almighty God and the Holy Spirit are ONE and the SELF SAME BEING. So we have Almighty God the FATHER who IS the Holy Spirit and we have God's SON Jesus.)

         14. And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

         15. Whosoever shall CONFESS that Jesus is the SON of GodGod DWELLS IN him, and he in God. (No where in the word of TRUTH, the Holy Bible, have I myself ever found that we are commanded or taught to CONFESS or BELIEVE that Jesus HIMSELF IS THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God. But here we are CLEARLY and PLAINLY taught to believe and CONFESS that Jesus is the SON OF Almighty God the Father.)

         16. And we have known and believed the love that God has to us. God is love; and he that dwells in love dwells in God, and God IN him.”



             And since that God is IN US, then most assuredly God is WITH us. And since God is with us he must surely be FOR us. And since God is FOR us, then who can be against us. Jesus said that WORKS that he did YOU shall do ALSO. Almighty God the Father is our ROCK and Jesus his SON his our sure FOUNDATION.

            But yet in the LIGHT of all this evidence from God's word of TRUTH there are some Christians, who will say what about this verse or what about that verse, because they have been dogmatically demand that the ONLY meaning these verses can have is that Jesus MUST without fail PREEXISTED and God the SON who was WITH God by his SIDE from all eternity past WITHOUT ever having a BEGINNING. So for all the DOUBTING Thomas Christians I will explain in detail ALL the verses in QUESTIONS that I have been made aware. 

            Thanks for reading and may God bless you richly as you continue to seek the truth of the WHOLE word of Almighty God. Below is a list of the studies I mentioned within this study along with all the other studies that I have related to this subject of HOW did Jesus PREEXIST. We all agree that Jesus preexisted is some form so the question is not IF Jesus preexisted, but rather in what form as to HOW Jesus preexisted in eternity past.

             Your brother in our Lord Jesus Christ,

             Mark.

RETURN TO HOMEPAGE

AT

AMatterOfTruth.com


VERSES USED TO TEACH THAT JESUS PREEXISTED!


JOHN 1:1-3


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2. The same was in the beginning with God.

3. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” 


JOHN 3:13


And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”


JOHN 3:17

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 


JOHN 3:31


He that comes from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaks of the earth: he that comes from heaven is above all.


JOHN 6:32 


         “Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven


JOHN 6:33 


 For the bread of God is he which comes down from heaven, and gives life unto the world.”


JOHN 6:38


For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.”


JOHN 6:42 

And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?


JOHN 6:50 

 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.


JOHN 6:51

I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.


JOHN 6:58

This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eats of this bread shall live for ever.


JOHN 6:62 


What and if you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?”


JOHN 8:14


Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but you cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.”


JOHN 8:23 


And he said unto them, You are from beneath; I am from above: you are of this world; I am not of this world.”


JOHN 8:24


I said therefore unto you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that I am he, you shall die in your sins.


JOHN 8:42,43

        “Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, you would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 
        43. Why do you not understand my speech? even because you cannot hear my word.



JOHN 8:58


Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”


JOHN 16:28 


I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.”


JOHN 17:5


And now, O Father, glorify you me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world was.”


JOHN 17:8 


For I have given unto them the words which you gave me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from you, and they have believed that you did send me.



JOHN 17:24 (scroll down to the second verse in question in this study)


Father, I will that they also, whom you have given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which you have given me: for you loved me before the foundation of the world.”


ROMANS 8:3 (scroll down to the eleventh verse in question in this study)


For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:”


1 CORINTHIANS 10:4 (scroll down to the first verse in question in this study)


And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.”


1 CORINTHIANS 15:47 (scroll down to VERSE #6.)


The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.”


2 CORINTHIANS 8:9  (scroll down to VERSE #2.)


For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, that you through his poverty might be rich.”


GALATIANS 4:4


But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,”


EPHESIANS 3:9-11


And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10. To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11. According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:”


EPHESIANS 4:8-10 (scroll down to the fifth verse in question in this study)


Wherefore he said, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10. He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)”


COLOSSIANS 1:15-17 (scroll down to the third verse in question in this study)


Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16. For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17. And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.”


HEBREWS 1:2


Has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;”


Hebrews 2:16,17


For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.”


Hebrews 5:8


Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;”


HEBREWS 10:5 (scroll down to VERSE #1.)


Wherefore when he comes into the world, he says, Sacrifice and offering you would not, but a body have you prepared me:”

Psalm 40:6,7


PHILIPPIANS 2:6-8


Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7. But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8. And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.”


1 John 1:1,2


“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

          2.  (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)”


REVELATION 3:14 


And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;”


MICAH 5:2


But you, Bethlehem Ephratah, though you be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.”


GENESIS 1:26



And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”


PROVERBS 8:22  (scroll down to the second verse in question in this study)



The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.”



Thanks for reading. May God bless you richly as you continue seeking the truth of the whole word of God. Also please read the studies listed below related to Jesus being God, the doctrine of the trinity and the deity of Jesus.

Your brother in our Lord Jesus Christ,

Mark.

RETURN TO HOMEPAGE

AT 

AMatterOfTruth.com



             Verses used to try and support the doctrine of the trinity, and that Jesus is Yahweh himself, as in one and the self same being.

Genesis 1:26---Let US make man in OUR image!

Genesis 18:1-3 Was Jesus ONE of the THREE MEN or angels who APPEARED to Abraham?

Genesis 19:24--- YAHWEH rained down fire... from YAHWEH.

Isaiah 6:3---HOLY HOLY HOLY means TRINITY!

Isaiah 7:14---Immauel God with us!

Isaiah 9:6---MIGHTY GOD and EVERLASTING FATHER!

Isaiah 48:16---The LORD AND HIS SPIRIT SENT ME!

Micah 5:2--- From everlasting.

Zechariah 12:10--- Look upon me whom they have pierced.

Matthew 1:23---Emmanuel God with us!

Matthew 28:19---In the name of the Father, Son, & Holy Spirit.

JOHN 1:1---AND THE WORD WAS GOD!

JOHN 2:19-22---Jesus raised HIMSELF from the dead?

JOHN 5:18 JESUS IS EQUAL WITH GOD!

JOHN 8:24 PROVES JESUS IS YAHWEH!

JOHN 8:58---BEFORE ABRAHA I AM!

JOHN 10:30---I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE!

JOHN 14:19---JESUS IS THE FATHER?

JOHN 20:28---MY LORD AND MY GOD!

Acts 20:28--- He has purchased with his own blood.

Romans 9:5--- Christ came...God blessed forever.

 2 CORINTHIANS 13:14 TEACHES TRINITY?

EPHESIANS 3:9 DID JESUS CREATE ALL THINGS?

COLOSSIANS 2:9 IS JESUS THE GODHEAD?

PHILIPPIANS 2:6-11 PROVES PREEXISTENCE

1 TIMOTHY 3:16---God was manifest is the flesh

TITUS 2:13---Our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ

TITUS 3:2 God our Savior toward man APPEARED

Hebrews 1:8--- Your throne O' God.

Hebrews 7:1-3 ---Is Melchizedek a theophany of Jesus?

1 John 5:7--- And these three are one.

1 John 5:20--- Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God...

2 Peter 2:1---God AND our Savior Jesus Christ 

2 Peter 3:18---Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ 

Revelation 1:8--- JESUS IS THE ALMIGHTY?

Revelation 1:17--- First and the Last (Isaiah 44:6

Revelation 17:14--- WHO IS THE KING OF KINGS.