SPELLING EDITED V-36. John 6:38 JESUS CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN!
Does John 6:32-62 PROVE that Jesus PREEXISTED up in heaven as the ETERNAL DIVINE SON OF God in all the ETERNITY PAST?
In other words, do the following verses in John chapter 6 prove, without fail, that God's Son was begotten by God in the eternity past? And thus, Jesus pre-existed AS God's ETERNAL DIVINE Son in the eternity past, who was WITH the God AT the God's SIDE? And then, the Almighty God the Father SENT His eternal divine God the SON down from heaven INTO the earth? And thus, it was the SON OF God who manifested HIMSELF to become the Son of MAN as opposed to Yahweh Himself who was the one that manifested FOR Himself through His spoken word of PROPHECY to be made FLESH and that word be MADE Lord and God over the earth in the world to come? Let us read each verse separately taken out of context and then we will read the whole context of John 6:32-62 in the light of the whole word of God to see what the Bible itself teaches us.
John 6:32.
“Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father gives you the true bread FROM heaven”
It says “true bread” and not God the Son from heaven. Bread in the Bible can also speak of teaching. Also, the manna or bread from heaven is a type or figure of the word raining down from heaven. Compare Isaiah 55:11 which is a hidden prophecy of Jesus coming out of the mouth of God. John 6:33.
“For the bread of God is HE which comes down from heaven, and gives life unto the world.”
Here we see Jesus associating himself with the true bread from heaven compared to the natural manna from heaven in the day of Moses. Manna gave the children of Israel physical life and Jesus is come to give eternal life to whosoever believes that he is the Christ, the Son of the living God.
John 6:38.
“For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.”
What actually came down from heaven? Did a literal pre-existing God the Son come down from heaven and enter into the womb of the Virgin Mary? Or did the SPOKEN word of PROPHECY that came forth out from God come down by way of the angel Gabriel and the spoken word of prophecy was made flesh?
John 6:42.
“And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he said, I came down from heaven?”
These unbelieving Jews did NOT believe that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit of God. Rather, they believed that Joseph was the father of Jesus.
John 6:50.
“This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.”
This is referring back to the TRUE teaching that came down from heaven that Almighty God put in the mouth of His prophet, Jesus. And eating speaks of BELIEVING the words of Jesus and not eating his literal body as the Roman Catholic Church wrongly teaches. Jesus is using SYMBOLIC language as he did in the parable he taught. Jesus said he is the true VINE and no Christian believes that Jesus is a literal VINE and we are literal BRANCHES. John 6:51.
“I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eats of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
Again, Jesus is talking about the TEACHING that his God and Father put in his mouth to preach and teach. And that teaching is that we must believe that Jesus suffered and died on the cross as the atonement for our sins. But more than that, we must believe the teaching that God raised the Son of Man, Jesus from the dead and gave him eternal life to never die again. So Jesus is the teaching of how we receive ETERNAL LIFE. Read the next verse of Scripture.
John 6:58.
“This is that BREAD which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eats of THIS bread shall live FOREVER.”
Again, Jesus is comparing the eating of physical bread to the eating of spiritual bread which is God’s word of TRUTH. In other words, Jesus is comparing Manna which gives mortal life to the teaching of the cross, and the resurrection of Jesus which gives ETERNAL LIFE in the world to come.
John 6:62.
“What and if you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was BEFORE?”
Now, before we read the CONTEXT of these verses let me share with you two things first. As I have said many times that any verse or verses of Scripture, when viewed ALONE and APART from the REST of God, may SEEM to be saying something that they are NOT TRULY saying in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of God. In other words, when verse 62 is read with the preconceived mindset that Jesus literally pre-existed in the eternity past then there is no doubt that these verses SEEM to be saying that Jesus HIMSELF literally came down from heaven into the earth. But that is only when they are read alone and apart from God's word having the preconceived mindset that Jesus pre-existed up in heaven. So then, if so be, that these verses are truly saying that Jesus himself literally came down out of heaven down to the earth, then one must logically conclude that Jesus preexisted as a SEPARATE divine eternal Spirit being who was WITH the God AT the God's SIDE from eternity past. And thus, this would also mean that Jesus was literally BEGOTTEN of God in the eternity past, as well, in order for Jesus to pre-exist AS God's eternal divine SON up in heaven with God at His side. For you see, Jesus had to be GENERATED at some point in time to come into existence because that is what the word begotten means. Let us assume for a moment that the doctrine of the Trinity INTERPRETATION is the correct interpretation of these verses. Here is how the theory of Jesus pre-existing as a SEPARATE person of the one God who was with the God at His side in eternity past who God SENT down from heaven INTO the earth is presented or taught. Some Christians say that the Son volunteered to come down from heaven into the earth to become flesh and dwell among men. They use a few verses like Philippians 2:6-9 and 2 Corinthians 8:9 to teach that Jesus gave it all up and humbled himself to become the Son of Man. Then after Jesus accomplished God's will to die on the cross, God the Father highly exalted him or RESTORED God the Son BACK to his original position with God the Father to be equal with God as he was before God the Son manifest himself to become flesh. That is how the Trinitarian theory goes. And that sounds logical to some Christians UNTIL you read the Scriptures for YOURSELF. I mean think this through for yourself dear children of God. We all know and agree that God is SMARTER and WISER than man. So then, according to this Trinitarian theory that God the Son was EQUAL in every way with God the Father in eternity past where neither one was less than nor greater than the other, then they both agreed that mankind needed a Savior, and God the Son volunteered to do what God the Father sent him down from heaven INTO the earth to do. And after God the Son died on the cross, God the Father HIGHLY exalted God the Son to be a God UNDER the Father being SUBJECT TO the Father. Now I am no rocket scientist, but it sounds to ME, according to the Trinitarian theory of Jesus preexisting AS God the SON in eternity past, that God the Son got ripped off going from being EQUAL with God the Father in every way where neither were greater than nor less than the other in the eternity past to becoming a God UNDER and SUBJECT TO Almighty God the Father. I mean God is WISER than man right! So to me, if it was the human Son of MAN being HIGHLY EXALTED to be MADE Lord and God over the earth for 1000 years, then that would be TRULY being highly exalted for a human being to become a God. However, according to the Trinitarian theory, for an already God the Son who was equal in every way in the eternity past to be highly exalted to now be UNDER Almighty God does NOT sound like being highly exalted to ME. Rather, the supposed God the Son was DEMOTED to now be under and subject to his God and Father. I shared those two things with you because verses of Scripture can be MADE to say things that they are NOT TRULY saying when they are NOT correctly interpreted in the light of the WHOLE word of God. Those who teach that doctrine of the Trinity openly admit that the Trinity Godhead is not clearly taught in Scripture, but rather, it seems to be IMPLIED. Well, any man can IMPLY almost any verse to say what they want it to IMPLY. Let us now read the entire CONTEXT of these verses in question in John chapter 6 WITHOUT the preconceived mindset that Jesus preexisted up in heaven in the eternity past.
John 6:26-69.
“Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, You seek me, NOT because you saw the miracles, BUT because you did EAT of the LOAVES, and were filled. 27. Labor (Or WORK) not for the meat which perishes, but (Or but rather labor or WORK) for that meat which endures unto everlasting life, which the Son of MAN shall give unto you: for HIM (Speaking of the Son of MAN) has God the Father sealed. (This word SEALED is the SAME Greek word that is used in Ephesians speaking of our being sealed with the earnest of the Holy Spirit of God. So, why would an already Almighty God need to be sealed or ANOINTED?) 28. Then said they unto him, What shall we DO, that we might work the WORKS OF God? 29. Jesus answered and said unto them, THIS IS the WORK OF God, that you BELIEVE on him whom he has sent. (The Greek word “translated” as SENT in the verse also means COMMISSIONED. Jesus was ANOINTED with the Holy Spirit and power, according to Acts 10:38 and the word commissioned means to GIVE power and authority to accomplish the task that one is given to do. So then, Jesus is actually saying that the work of God is to BELIEVE that Jesus is the Christ which means Jesus ANOINTED by God. But the Jews did not believe that Jesus was anointed by God and they always wanted some SIGN to prove that God sent him or anointed him) 30. They said, therefore, unto him, (Or therefore, since you say God SENT or commissioned you) What SIGN show you then, that we may see, and believe you? What do you work? 31. Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He (Moses) gave them BREAD FROM HEAVEN to EAT. (Here we see that the Jews brought up the SIGN that Moses worked to show that he was doing what God directed him to do. So what SIGN do you show us that God ANOINTED you? Then the next verse is the FIRST verse in question as to the true meaning of that verse. Remember that it was the Jew who brought up the SUBJECT of Moses and the bread from heaven called Manna) 32. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you NOT that bread from heaven; but my Father gives you the TRUE BREAD from heaven. (Jesus taught in PARABLES. Jesus is not LITERALLY a loaf of BREAD that came down from heaven. Bread or leaven of bread was used by Jesus to refer to FALSE doctrine or false teaching of the Pharisees, according to Matthew 16:12. So then, unleavened bread refers to the TRUE doctrine or the TRUE TEACHING that God gives FROM HEAVEN. And the unleavened bread called Manna was a TYPE or figure of TRUE TEACHING that will give eternal life if believed came down from heaven) 33. For the BREAD of God (Or the TRUE TEACHING OF God) is HE which comes down from heaven and gives LIFE unto the world. (The BREAD of God is the TEACHING of God which came down from heaven. In other words, God's WORDS are LIFE to those who find them and health to all their flesh as well, according to Proverbs 4. And God's words are SPIRIT and LIFE as we shall see in a moment in John 6:63. So the HE that comes down from heaven is NOT the SON OF God, but rather, the TRUE TEACHING of God is what came down from heaven and given to the Son of MAN to TEACH. Also, the now highly exalted Son of man after the cross will be the one descending from heaven at his second coming to GIVE eternal life to those of us who are IN Jesus Christ in this present world) 34. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this BREAD (They were thinking that Jesus was speaking of real literal BREAD come down from heaven like the MANNA that fell from the heaven in the days of Moses that their fathers did EAT) 35. And Jesus said unto them, I AM the BREAD of LIFE: he that comes to me shall never hunger, and he that believes on me shall never thirst. (The Jews searched the WORD of God for eternal LIFE and Jesus told them and us that the Scriptures TAUGHT of him. Jesus taught only the WORDS that Almighty God the Father gave him to speak. Basically, God REVEALED the Scriptures to Jesus and then Jesus taught his disciple what God had shown him to teach. In other words, Jesus is saying that HE is the FULFILLMENT of the WORD of God, which came down from heaven. And this means that the WORDS of God recorded in the Old Testament is what came down from heaven to the prophets of old by the Holy Spirit and the angels speaking to them God's WORDS or TEACHINGS or BREAD that brings LIFE to those who RECEIVE the TEACHING of God come down from heaven. Jesus is saying that he is the FULFILLMENT of those PROPHESIES of a Savior) 36. But I said unto you, That you also have seen me, and believe not. 37. All that the Father gives me shall come to me, and him that comes to me I will in no wise cast out. 38. For I (The SPOKEN WORD of God, the BREAD or the TEACHINGS of God, as in, the prophecies of God come to LIFE or FULFILLED in your ears to teach you WORDS that shall bring you ETERNAL LIFE) came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. (In other words, the LOGOS, the word, the SAYING of God was made to become FLESH, the SON of MAN, fulfilling the written PROPHECIES of the coming Messiah, the ANOINTED chosen one of God. The Son of MAN was FULFILLMENT of that word of God come down from heaven standing before those Jews to TEACH not only them but to teach us as well the words of God that will bring to us ETERNAL LIFE to WHOSOEVER BELIEVES on the words Jesus spoke. To say this another way, we must believe that it was Jesus who the Scriptures spoke of that was to come and be the Savior. And believing on Jesus is obeying his words. So all three verses are teaching us that the flesh profits nothing, but the WORDS Jesus spoke are LIFE to those who find them. It was the TEACHING of God that is what came down from heaven and not the SON OF God who came down from heaven) 39. And this is the Father's will which has SENT (Or COMMISSIONED) me, that of all which he has given me I should lose nothing but should raise it up again at the last day. 40. And this is the will of him that SENT (Or COMMISSIONED) me, that every one which sees the Son, and believes on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. 41. The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the BREAD which came down from heaven. (These Jews finally understood that the TRUE BREAD come down from heaven was the TRUE TEACHING of God, but they misunderstood the words of Jesus thinking that Jesus was saying that he HIMSELF came down from heaven, because he kept saying they must believe on HIM. So they murmured and said among themselves) 42. And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? HOW is it then that he said, I came down from heaven? 43. Jesus, therefore, answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. 44. No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent me, draws him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45. It is written in the PROPHETS, And they shall be all TAUGHT of God. Every man, therefore, that has heard and has LEARNED of the Father, comes unto me. 46. Not that any MAN has seen the Father, save he (The Son of MAN) which is OF God, he (The Son of MAN) has seen the Father. (Jesus is saying that up until the time of the Son of MAN no man has UNDERSTOOD the words of God, the Scriptures, that they were shadows pointing to Jesus the NEW covenant of God. Jesus was the transition from the OLD covenant to the NEW covenant. Jesus was the SIGN given by God of his NEW covenant. And God revealed this TRUTH to the Son of MAN) 47. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that BELIEVES on ME had everlasting life. 48. I am THAT bread of life. (Or I am that TRUE TEACHING of God in the PROPHECIES in the Old Testament that must be EATEN or BELIEVED in order to receive ETERNAL LIFE in the world to come. Or I am the fulfillment of the prophecies of the coming Messiah. I am he) 49. Your fathers did EAT MANNA (Or that natural bread to eat to sustain the physical life of your fathers) in the wilderness, and are dead. 50. THIS is the BREAD which comes down from heaven, that a man may EAT thereof, and NOT die. 51. I am the LIVING BREAD which came down from heaven: if any man EAT of THIS BREAD, he shall live for ever: and the BREAD that I WILL give is my FLESH, which I will give for the life of the world. 52. The Jews, therefore, strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his FLESH to EAT? 53. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except you EAT the FLESH of the Son of man, AND drink his BLOOD, you have NO life in you. 54. Whoso EATS my FLESH, and DRINKS my BLOOD, has eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56. He that eats my FLESH, and drinks my BLOOD, dwells in me, and I in him. 57. As the living Father has sent me, (Or COMMISSIONED me) and I LIVE BY the Father: so he that EATS ME, even he shall live by me. 58. THIS IS is that BREAD which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that EATS of THIS BREAD shall live forever. (Now no one has actually eaten the literal FLESH of Jesus nor drank his BLOOD to receive eternal life in the world to come. Again, Jesus is teaching them in PARABLES. We understand this parable now AFTER the CROSS. We understand that the TRUE BREAD from heaven is the TRUE TEACHING of the NEW COVENANT that the WORK of God is that we MUST BELIEVE on the death and resurrection of Jesus, the Son of Man. We must BELIEVE that Jesus came from God and that the Son of MAN was the CHRIST, the ANOINTED OF God, who suffered and died for our sins. And not only for our sins but also for the sins of the whole world so that whosoever BELIEVES on Jesus as the SON OF the living God might have eternal life in the world to come. We now understand that the TRUE BREAD from heaven is the teaching of Jesus suffering and dying on the cross for the sins of the world. AND we now understand that God raised up the Son of MAN from the DEAD to where he was BEFORE which was to be ALIVE and no longer dead) 59. These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. 60. Many, therefore, of his disciples, when they had heard this, said This is a hard saying; who can hear it? 61. When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Does this offend you? (Many of his disciples left off following Jesus after this teaching. They did not understand that Jesus would GIVE HIMSELF to suffer and die on the cross for their sins. They did not understand that the EATING of his FLESH and the DRINKING of his BLOOD being the TRUE BREAD come down from heaven was NOT his literal flesh and blood that must be eaten. But rather, it was the TRUE BREAD, as in, the TRUE GOSPEL come down from heaven that must be believed. The Manna was a type of shadow pointing to the TRUE BREAD coming down from heaven. This TRUE BREAD that MUST be EATEN is the FLESH of Jesus the Son of MAN. Now, seeing that no FLESH and BLOOD can enter into heaven, then clearly, flesh and blood did NOT come down from heaven. The meaning of this entire passage of Scripture is that it was the TRUE TEACHING of God that came down from heaven that God gave to the Son of Man THROUGH the teaching of the Holy Spirit. God TAUGHT the Son of MAN that the Scriptures spoke of HIM as being His ELECT, His chosen servant, who was prophesied to be His ANOINTED servant that would be given as a COVENANT for the people. And ONLY those who believe the TEACHING of this NEW COVENANT will receive eternal life in the world to come. And the TRUE TEACHING that came down from heaven is that Jesus ASCENDED up from the GRAVE back to where he was BEFORE he died on the cross. So in the next verse of Scripture Jesus is asking his disciples if they would believe his teaching if they WITNESSED the Son of MAN being RESURRECTED and given ETERNAL life that he is promising them that THEY will receive IF they BELIEVE) 62. What and if you shall see the Son of MAN ascend up where he was BEFORE? (Again, Jesus knew that the Scriptures spoke of HIM. Jesus knew that he came OUT from God and was given MORTAL life by God. Jesus knew that the ORIGIN of his existence was from God speaking words of life out from Yahweh's mouth. Jesus knew that God FORMED him in the WOMB of his mother by SPEAKING living words to the Virgin Mary. And to me, this is the intended meaning of this verse. I myself see that NO Son of MAN came down from heaven. So to ME, I see that verse 62 means that the Son of MAN will ascend up out of the GRAVE to be where he was BEFORE the Son of MAN was crucified. I also, see these words of Jesus meaning that the Son of MAN will ascend UP into heaven right AFTER God raises him from the dead to GIVE the Son of MAN his reward of ETERNAL LIFE. And then, the now highly exalted ETERNAL DIVINE SON OF God will descend down from heaven as the glorified Son of MAN, but also as God's eternal Son to show himself ALIVE forevermore that he is God's SON by many infallible proofs. Again, this verse simply means that Jesus is speaking of his yet-coming RESURRECTION from the dead to ASCEND UP from the belly of the earth where he first DESCENDED for three days and three nights. The Greek word translated as “ascend up” means stepping up, as in, being raised up from the dead. The context of verses 39-44 and the following verses refers to the resurrection where the Spirit quickens or makes you alive so that you will NOT die again. Jesus knew the Scriptures spoke of him. And thus, Jesus knew that he would be made alive again after his death on the cross by the spoken word of God that came down from heaven. And Jesus also knew where he was going after the cross through the revelation given to him of the Holy Spirit. Jesus knew from the Scriptures that he was foreordained to be glorified and ascend up into heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father. But FIRST, the Son of MAN must DESCEND into the belly of the earth for three days and three nights and then ASCEND UP where he was BEFORE the Son of MAN was crucified. So verse 62 is NOT referring to ascending up to HEAVEN, but rather, verse 62 is speaking about being MADE ALIVE where the Son of MAN was BEFORE he died. Read the CONTEXT in the very next verse of Scripture) 63. It is the spirit that quickens; (Or it is the Spirit who makes ALIVE or GIVES LIFE) the FLESH profits nothing: (Jesus is saying, I am not talking about eating my LITERAL FLESH. EATING my LITERAL FLESH would NOT profit you ANYTHING. But RATHER, it is TEACHING,) the WORDS that I SPEAK unto you, THEY (What I TEACH you, the WORDS I SPEAK to you) are SPIRIT, and they are LIFE. (The whole CONTEXT is about receiving ETERNAL LIFE. So the true sound Bible meaning of verse 62 is that Jesus ASCENDED UP out of the belly of the earth where he DESCENDED first to preach the gospel to the spirits in the holding place of the dead in the Old Testament times) 64. BUT there are some of you that believe NOT. (According to John, the only SIGN that Jesus gave to the unbelieving Jews was the sign of Jonah which we know refers to Jesus DESCENDED DOWN into the heart of the earth and then ASCENDING UP where he was BEFORE the cross. But yet some Trinitarian Christians believe NOT that this is the true sound Biblical meaning of verse 62 which teaches us that WITHOUT FAITH being MIXED with the WORDS of God they will NOT profit us to bring us anything. The WORDS of God must be BELIEVED in order to bring LIFE to the one BELIEVING His WORDS, the TEACHINGS sent down from heaven that God gave to the Son of MAN, Jesus) For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. (Jesus knew from the SCRIPTURES that his God and Father revealed to him. Jesus understood the WORDS of God speaking of the seed of Ishmael, who would not believe the teachings of Jesus. But they would indeed believe another coming after him in his own name, which I believe was fulfilled in Muhammad bringing the TEACHING of ISLAM coming from God's enemy Satan, the Devil. And Jesus knew from the teaching of God that one would betray him. In other words, not all of Israel is Israel. There were two seed lines, and ONLY the seed of Isaac was given the promise. This does not mean that Muslims cannot be saved. The NEW COVENANT is to WHOSOEVER BELIEVES that Jesus is the CHRIST, is the SON OF the living God, of ANY of mankind in the entire world, shall be saved) 65. And he said, Therefore, said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. (This ONLY applied up to the cross. AFTER the death and resurrection of Jesus WHOSOEVER BELIEVES on the SON OF the living God as being the CHRIST shall be saved. These verses do NOT teach predestination that Jesus only died for SOME people and the REST of mankind were created just for the sole purpose of being destroyed in the lake of fire. Please read the study “EXAMINING CALVINISM IN THE LIGHT OF GOD’S WORD!”) 66. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. (Jesus lost almost all of his followers who did not have the patience to hear the WHOLE matter. They were TOO QUICK to judge what Jesus was teaching them without hearing the WHOLE matter) 67. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will you ALSO go away? 68. Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the WORDS (Or the TEACHINGS or the BREAD) of eternal life. 69. And we BELIEVE and are sure that YOU are THAT Christ, the Son of the living God.”
WHAT Christ? The CHRIST who is TAUGHT in the SCRIPTURES, the WORDS of God, the TEACHING of God, the BREAD of God come down from heaven that Jesus, the Son of MAN is the FULFILLMENT of the BREAD come down from heaven. This is what this entire passage of Scripture is teaching us and NOT that Jesus PREEXISTED up in heaven as a SEPARATE divine eternal Spirit being, who was WITH the Almighty God AT His SIDE. Let us take a closer look at John 6:62, which SEEMS to be saying that Jesus came down from heaven became flesh at his virgin birth, and then the Son of God would ascend back up into heaven where he was before he came down from heaven to become the Son of MAN. John 6:62.
“What and if you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?”
We have already seen from the CONTEXT that the BREAD come DOWN from heaven was the FULFILLMENT of the WORDS or prophecy come DOWN from God, which SOME of the Jews did NOT believe. So Jesus is simply saying WILL you BELIEVE that I am THAT CHRIST prophesied in the Scriptures if you SEE the Son of MAN ASCEND up into heaven where he was BEFORE the Son of MAN descended from heaven? Remember that Jesus knew that the Scriptures spoke of HIM.
Please read Proverbs 30:4-6 from the New Century Version.
“Who has GONE UP to heaven and COME BACK DOWN? Who can hold the wind in his hand? Who can gather up the waters in his coat? Who has set in place the ends of the earth? What is his name OR his SON'S name? Tell me, if you know! 5. Every word of God is true. He guards those who come to him for safety. 6. Do not ADD to HIS words, or he will correct you and prove you are a liar.”
Please notice that the “WHEN” that Jesus, the Son of MAN, CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN was only AFTER Jesus, the Son of MAN had FIRST ASCENDED UP into heaven after he was raised from the dead to be given IMMORTAL life from his God and Father. And then only AFTER Jesus had ascended UP or GONE UP into heaven is WHEN Jesus came BACK DOWN from heaven to show himself ALIVE by many infallible proofs. So then, to use these verses to try and prove that Jesus preexisted with the Father IN heaven as a SEPARATE divine eternal Spirit being, who was WITH the God by his side is to ADD to the word of God and going beyond what the whole word of God truly teaches us. And Proverbs 30:4-6 warns us that if one ADD to HIS words he or she will be found to be a liar or false teacher. The truth of the matter God ALONE has always possessed self-existing immortal life IN HIMSELF and no one GAVE the one true living God immortality. Please read 1 Timothy 6:13-16, which plainly states that there was only ONE in heaven, who has always possessed IMMORTALITY in himself. And that ONE is the INVISIBLE God, which the Bible itself ALWAYS identifies as being the FATHER. And clearly, Jesus is NOT the FATHER.
1 Timothy 6:13-16.
“I give you charge in the sight of God, who quickens all things, AND before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 14. That you keep this commandment (Or that you keep this teaching) without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15. Which in his times (Speaking of both the first and second comings of Jesus) he shall show, WHO is the blessed and ONLY Potentate, (The ONLY Almighty Sovereign God), the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16. WHO ONLY HAS IMMORTALITY, dwelling in the light which NO MAN can approach unto; WHOM NO MAN has seen, NOR CAN SEE: to whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen.”
Clearly, the Scriptures teach us that Jesus came to show us the FATHER. Clearly, men have SEEN Jesus and will see him at his second coming. So then, the WHO being spoken of in this verse that Jesus came to SHOW us, is the FATHER who ONLY has always had IMMORTALITY. Now, if so be, that one INTERPRETS that Jesus preexisted as God's eternal divine Son in eternity past WITH the God AT His SIDE and that the Son of God was GIVEN immortality in eternity past, as some claim, then that would make TWO eternal divine beings in eternity past. And that interpretation CONTRADICTS 1 Timothy 6:13-16 that we just read where ONLY the one true invisible God, whom no man has seen nor can see has immortality. The Bible ITSELF, through the word or LOGOS of PROPHECY, teaches us that the WHEN that Jesus BECAME God's ETERNAL Son never to see corruption or death ever again, was on the very DAY that God raised up the Son of MAN from the dead and GAVE the Son of MAN eternal life.
Please read John 5:22-27.
“For the Father judges NO man, but has COMMITTED ALL judgment unto the Son: 23. That (Or so that) all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honors not the Son honors not the Father which has sent him. 24. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26. FOR (Or BECAUSE or the REASON of WHY the Son of MAN will be able to give eternal life is BECAUSE) AS the Father HAS life in himself; (As in, the eternal invisible Spirit has ALWAYS possessed immortality in himself) SO HAS HE GIVEN TO the Son (Of MAN) TO HAVE life in himself; 27. AND (Or and also for the same reason that the Father gave the Son of man eternal life) has given him authority to execute judgment ALSO BECAUSE he is the Son of MAN.”
Now some try and argue that the Son was given eternal life in eternity past, but this is NOT what PROPHECY teaches us as we have just seen in Acts 13:33-35 where THIS DAY that Jesus was BEGOTTEN was the very day that Jesus was RESURRECTED from the dead NEVER TO DIE again. So then, in order for the MORTAL Son of man to never die AGAIN, he must have been GIVEN immortality AFTER he was resurrected from the dead. If you remember the conversation that Jesus had with Mary Magdalene right after Jesus, the Son of MAN was raised from the dead he specifically told Mary Magdalene NOT to TOUCH him. And he gave her and us the REASON of WHY he did NOT want Mary Magdalene to TOUCH him.
Let us read John 20:17,18.
“Jesus said unto her, TOUCH ME NOT; FOR (Or BECAUSE) I am NOT YET ASCENDED to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. (Now, keep in mind that no man SAW the Son of MAN ascend up to heaven right after talking to Mary Magdalene. And no man SAW the Son of MAN descend back down from heaven to show himself alive for forty days. BUT people did SEE the Son of MAN ascend back up to heaven where he was BEFORE. Not meaning before in the eternity past, but rather meaning before, as in, forty days ago on the day he was resurrected from the dead) 18. Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord and that he had spoken these things unto her.”
Then later that same evening Jesus appeared to his disciples.
Please read John 20:19,20.
“Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and said unto them, Peace be unto you. 20. And when he had so said, he showed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.”
Now, we are not actually told here in the gospel of John that Jesus told his disciples to touch him, but in Luke 24:3-44, we clearly see that Jesus is telling them to look at his hands and his feet saying HANDLE ME or TOUCH ME to prove to yourself that I am NOT a SPIRIT for a SPIRIT has NOT FLESH and BONES as you see me have.
Please read Luke 24:36-44.
“And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 37. But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. 38. And he said unto them, Why are you troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39. Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: HANDLE ME, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones, as you see me have. 40. And when he had thus spoken, he showed them his hands and his feet. 41. And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have you here any meat? 42. And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of a honeycomb. 43. And he took it, and did eat before them. 44. And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.”
So then, from the time that Jesus spoke to Mary Magdalene saying TOUCH me NOT because I have NOT YET ASCENDED to my Father to the time that he appeared the SAME day in the evening to his disciples saying HANDLE ME, or TOUCH me and see for yourselves that I am ALIVE forevermore, Jesus ASCENDED to his God and Father to be GIVEN ETERNAL LIFE and ALL POWER and descended back down from heaven to show himself ALIVE forevermore never to die again by many infallible proofs for forty days before he ascended back into heaven a second time.
Another proof of this is Matthew 28:18.
“And Jesus came and spoke unto them, saying, All power is GIVEN unto me in heaven and in the earth.”
Jesus spoke these words AFTER his resurrection. So then, Jesus was GIVEN TWO things when he ascended into heaven right after saying to Mary Magdalene do NOT TOUCH me because I have NOT YET ASCENDED to my Father. And then we are clearly and plainly told in John 5:22-27 what two things were given to the Son of MAN after he was resurrected and ascended to his Father. And we are told the REASON of WHY Jesus was given these TWO things, which is BECAUSE Jesus was the Son of MAN. NOT because Jesus was Almighty God Himself, and not even because Jesus was the Son of God. But BECAUSE Jesus was the Son of MAN.
Please read John 5:22-27 again.
“For the Father judges NO man, but has COMMITTED ALL judgment unto the Son: 23. That (Or so that) all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honors not the Son honors not the Father which has sent him. 24. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26. FOR (Or BECAUSE or the REASON of WHY the Son of MAN will be able to give eternal life is BECAUSE) AS the Father HAS life in himself; (As in, the eternal invisible Spirit has ALWAYS possessed immortality in himself) SO HAS HE GIVEN TO the Son (Of MAN) TO HAVE life in himself; 27. AND (Or and also for the same reason that the Father gave the Son of man eternal life) has given him authority to execute judgment ALSO BECAUSE he is the Son of MAN.”
Please read the three part study “WHEN DID JESUS BECOME GOD'S ETERNAL SON? 1” for all the verses that clearly teach us that God's eternal Son was begotten of God AT the resurrection of the Son of MAN and God GAVE to the Son to HAVE LIFE in himself EVEN AS the Father HAS life in himself. Thanks for reading and may God bless you richly as you continue to seek the truth of the WHOLE word of Almighty God. Below is a list of the studies I mentioned within this study along with all the other studies that I have related to this subject of HOW did Jesus PREEXIST. We all agree that Jesus preexisted in some form so the question is not IF Jesus preexisted, but rather in what form as to HOW Jesus preexisted in eternity past.
Your brother in our Lord Jesus Christ, Brother Mark.
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VERSES USED TO TEACH THAT JESUS PREEXISTED! To me, the best way to know the ONE true God in ONE person is to know who Jesus TRULY IS according to the WHOLE word of Almighty God so please read ALL the studies under the heading >>>WHO IS JESUS ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE?<<< and you will see that the Bible itself teaches us that Jesus was CREATED by his God and Father. And if you have any questions related to the correct meaning of certain verses of Scripture on this subject of who Jesus is please read all the studies under the two headings >>>A LIST OF STUDIES ON THE TRINITY!<<< and >>>VERSES USED TO TEACH THAT JESUS PRE-EXISTED!<<< These two headings have ALL the studies that I have on who Jesus truly is according to what the Bible itself teaches us in simplicity. I compiled these three headings to make it easy for my readers to send just one, two, or three links to those you desire to help understand what the Bible itself teaches concerning who Jesus is in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of Almighty God. Thanks for reading and may God bless you richly as you continue to seek the truth of the whole word of Almighty God.
Your brother in our Lord Jesus Christ, Brother Mark.
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