DOES MICAH 5:2
“WHOSE GOINGS FORTH HAVE BEEN FROM OLD, FROM EVERLASTING”
PROVE THAT JESUS PREEXISTED?
Some Christians use Micah 5:2 to try and prove without fail that Jesus preexisted as the SON OF Almighty God for ALL ETERNITY as God the SON without ever having a BEGINNING.
Other Christians, who have understood the the SON OF God was BEGOTTEN to mean without a doubt that Jesus as the SON OF God did INDEED have a BEGINNING, but the ORIGIN of the BEGINNING of the Son of God was of OLD from EVERLASTING. In other words, some Christians believe that Jesus, the SON OF Almighty God did INDEED have a BEGINNING, but his BEGINNING was NOT when Jesus was BORN of the VIRGIN Mary, but rather the INITIAL BEGETTING of Jesus was so far in eternity past that you might as well say that Jesus the Son of God has existed forever and the use Micah 5:2 to try and prove this teaching.
So then, which teaching is the TRUTH of the whole word of God? Is either of these two teachings a sound Biblical teaching that agrees with ALL of God's word? Or is there yet a third teaching that perhaps is even a more sound Biblical teaching than either of these two above teachings?
Let us begin this study in God's word by reading Micah 5:2 with the FOCUS on the words that those who teach the above two doctrines EMPHASIZE to try as support their doctrine.
“But you, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings FORTH HAVE BEEN have been from of old, FROM EVERLASTING.”
Then they present their argument that MAN can NOT SAVE himself and that ONLY God can SAVE US. THEREFORE Jesus HAD to BE GOD in order for him to be our SAVIOR. Then they quote some verses which SEEMS on the surface to support their point of view. They often quote Isaiah 43:11 first to show without a doubt the Almighty God ALONE is our SAVIOR and that we have NO OTHER savior but the ALMIGHTY.
“I, even I, am the LORD (YHWH or the ALMIGHTY God); and beside me there is NO savior.”
Then they quote a verse from the NEW Testament where our SAVIOR is clearly speaking of Jesus the SON OF Almighty God the Father. They often quote Titus chapter 2 verse 10 and verse together to show that Jesus is our SAVIOR, so therefore Jesus IS THE ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF in the FLESH being FULL Almighty God and fully man at the same time.
“Not purloining, but showing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in all things.
13. Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious APPEARING of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ; (speaking of the SECOND COMING of Jesus and being INTERPRETED by some as the GREAT God HIMSELF being our savior Jesus Christ. That is to say some INTERPRET this verse to dogmatically without fail mean that our savior Jesus Christ IS THE GREAT God MEANING that Jesus IS THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF.)
In other words, some dogmatically demand that ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF gave HIMSELF to die for the sins of mankind. Those who teach that Jesus preexisted as the SON OF Almighty God from all eternity past whether God's SON had a BEGINNING or whether God's SON never had a BEGINNING both claim that Jesus IS THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF, because in the OLD Testament it is clearly seen that ONLY Almighty God Yehweh is our SAVIOR and that there is NO OTHER SAVIOR other than Almighty God HIMSELF and yet in the NEW Testament Jesus, the SON OF Almighty God the Father is said to be our SAVIOR. Therefore they conclude the Jesus the SON OF Almighty God IS THE ONE TRUE GOD who ONLY is our SAVIOR.
Then SOME Christians conclude based upon the PREVIOUS conclusion that since Jesus, the Son of Almighty, God IS ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF, then the SON OF Almighty God had to have ALWAYS EXISTED for all eternity WITHOUT ever having a BEGINNING.
But yet OTHER Christians realize that that conclusion can NOT be true, BECAUSE the terms “SON”and “BEGOTTEN” demand that the SON OF Almighty God the Father HAVE a BEGINNING.
BUT WHEN was the BEGINNING of Jesus the SON OF Almighty God the Father being BROUGHT FORTH take place?
This is where Micah 5:2 comes into play. You see, some Christians read the phrase, “FROM EVERLASTING” and conclude that the ORIGIN of Jesus being brought FORTH had to be from ETERNITY PAST, because Micah 5:2 says, WHOSE goings FORTH were of from OLD, FROM EVERLASTING. Therefore some conclude that Jesus has always preexisted as the SON OF Almighty God the Father FROM all ETERNITY past.
But is this TRULY what this verse is teaching us that Jesus was begotten of God in ETERNITY past? So the question now becomes:
#1. Did Jesus the SON OF Almighty God ALWAYS exist as GOD the SON, the SECOND person of the TRINITY without ever having a BEGINNING as the doctrine of the trinity teaches dogmatically demanding that Jesus is CO ETERNAL with God the Father, where neither the Father nor his Son had a BEGINNING, but have ALWAYS existed as IMMORTAL beings. The doctrine of the trinity also teaches that Jesus, the SON OF Almighty God the Father is CO EQUAL with God the Father where neither is greater than nor less than the other. OR
#2. Was Jesus the SON OF Almighty God the Father BEGOTTEN OF God in ETERNTY PAST? OR
#3. Was Jesus BEGOTTEN as the SON of God WHEN the Word was MADE FLESH and BORN of the VIRGIN Mary?
Let us now take a CLOSER look at Micah 5:2 being LEFT in the CONTEXT of where it is found to see what this verse is TRULY teaching us in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of Almighty God the Father.
“Now gather yourself in troops, O daughter of troops: he has laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel (The judge of Israel here is speaking of Jesus the long awaited coming King of Israel. Please see Micah chapter 4.) with a rod upon the cheek (this is a prophecy of the long await coming King of the Jews their MESSIAH. Matthew 27:29,30 is one of the fulfillment of this prophecy of Jesus who is smote on the cheek with a reed. “And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand [the symbol of a ruler]: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews! 30. And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head.” The gospel of Luke says that the smote him on his face.).
2. But you, Bethlehem Ephratah, though you be little among the thousands of Judah (speaking of the little town of Bethlehem where Jesus was BORN of the virgin Mary), yet OUT of YOU shall HE (speaking of the COMING SON OF God to BE BORN in Bethlehem SHALL he, Jesus) COME FORTH UNTO ME that is to beRULER in Israel (this wording is important to the TRUE meaning of this verse. In other words, this COMING FROTH UNTO God is speaking of the FIRST COMING of Jesus when the Word of God came down from heaven by the angel Gabriel to be SPOKEN to the virgin Mary. And when Mary agreed to the SPOKEN Word of Almighty God the Word, the SPOKEN word that was WITHIN God from the beginning was now in the fullness of the time MADE to be ALIVE in the womb of Mary to be BORN the Son of MAN who was to be called the SON of the HIGHEST); whose (speaking of the yet coming SON OF God) GOINGS FORTH (please notice that the GOINGS forth are PLURAL speaking of BOTH the FIRST and the SECOND COMINGS of Jesus. In other words, BOTH of the PROPHESIED GOINGS FORTH of Jesus, the SON OF God and COMING KING of Israel) have been from of OLD, from everlasting.
3. THEREFORE will he give them UP (or BECAUSE the Jews reject the FIRST GOING FORTH of Jesus as the coming King and deliverer and had there Messiah crucified Almighty God gave his chosen people UP. That is to say blindness in part has come over the eyes of Israel), UNTIL the time that she which travails has brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.(this is speaking of the time of great tribulation when Israel shall travail in pain until the cry out to be saved. God's people Israel will travail as a woman in birth, until their Messiah is BROUGHT FORTH speaking of the SECOND GOING FORTH of Jesus.)
5. And this MAN shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he (the Assyrian, the ANTICHRIST) shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men.
6. And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he comes into our land, and when he treads within our borders (verses 4-6 are speaking of the SECOND COMING of the SECOND GOING FORTH of Jesus will destroy the antichrist and the armies of Islam that fight against Israel. Please read the study "ISLAM IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST!").”
So then, from the CONTEXT you can clearly see that this verse in question Micah 5:2 is PROPHECY of the GOINGS forth of the coming Messiah that had it ORIGIN from OLD, from ANCIENT times speaking of before the foundation of the world.
The Bible teaches us that the LAMB was SLAIN from BEFORE the foundation of the world, but this does NOT LITERALLY mean that Jesus was crucified and died for or sin BEFORE mankind was every created. But rather the ORIGIN of God's PLAN of salvation was of from OLD, FROM EVERLASTING or from ANCIENT times.
What this verse is TRULY teaching us is that the ANCESTRY or the LINAGE from which Jesus would be BORN was ordained by God in ancient times and NOT that the SON OF God was ACTUALLY BEGOTTEN in ancient times. Please read Micah 5:2 from some other translations and you will clearly see what I mean.
Here is Micah 5:2 from the Bible in Basic English.
“And you, Beth-lehem Ephrathah, the least among the FAMILIES of Judah, out of you one WILL COME to me who is to be ruler in Israel; whose going out has been PURPOSED from time past, from the eternal days.”
From this translation it is made clear to us that the goings forth of Jesus were PURPOSED from time past before these goings forth were to take place, from eternal days. Now whie the Hebrew words translated as eternal days can mean from everlasting or from eternity past these words also mean from ANCIENT days, from OLD times, and from the beginning of the world.
Here is Micah 5:2 from the Common English Bible.
“As for you, Bethlehem of Ephrathah, though you are the least significant of Judah's forces, one who is to be a ruler in Israel on my behalf WILL COME OUT from you. His ORIGIN is from remote times, from ANCIENT DAYS.”
From this translation along with the other translation that we have already looked at we clearly see that the ORIGIN of Jesus the Messiah WILL COME OUT of the family line of Judah, which was PURPOSED to BE from long ago from ANCIENT DAYS.
Here is Micah 5:2 from the Complete Jerusalem Bible.
“But you, Beit-Lechem near Efrat, so small among the CLANS (or FAMILIES) of Y'hudah, out of you WILL COME FORTH to me the future ruler of Isra'el, whose ORIGINS (plural meaning the TWO GOINGS FORTH of Jesus the coming King of Israel speaking of the FIRST and SECOND COMINGS of the Messiah) are far in the past, back in ANCIENT TIMES.”
Again the two coming of the Messiah were PURPOSED or were ORDAINED in ANCIENT TIMES but not without fail from all eternity past.
Here is Micah 5:2 from the Good News Translation.
“The Lord says, Bethlehem Ephrathah, you are one of the smallest towns in Judah, but out of you I will bring a ruler for Israel, whose FAMILY LINE goes back to ancient times.”
From this translation we can see that the ORIGIN of the Messiah is speaking of his ANCESTRY or his FAMILY LINE being out of Judah.
Here is Micah 5:2 from the New International Reader Bible.
“The LORD says, "Bethlehem, you might not be an important town in the NATION of Judah. But OUT of YOU WILL COME a ruler over Israel for me. His FAMILY LINE goes back to the early years of your nation. It goes all the way back to days of long ago." Bethlehem was also called Ephrathah.”
This verse clearly shows us that the ORIGIN of the Messiah or the King that is PROPHESIED TO COME WILL COME OUT of the FAMILY LINE of the nation of Judah and his ORIGIN was PURPOSED all the way back to days of long ago.
Here is Micah 5:2 from the Young's Literal Translation.
“And thou, Beth-Lehem Ephratah, Little to be among the chiefs of Judah! From thee to Me he cometh forth -- to be ruler in Israel, And his COMINGS FORTH [are] of old, From the days of antiquity.”
From this translation we can see that this verse is speaking of the FIRST AND SECOND COMINGS of the Messiah and that his ORIGIN or his FAMILY LINE will be from JUDAH.
Now I would like you to read Isaiah 13:6-10, which is a PROPHECY of the SECOND GOING FORTH of Messiah, or SECOND COMING of the Jesus to execute the wrath of Almighty God.
“Howl you; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
Can you not see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, that Micah 5:2 is speaking of the GOINGS forth of Jesus have been PURPOSED or ORDAINED from ANCIENT times for the Messiah's ANCESTRY or FAMILY LINE to be out of Judah and NOT that the SON OF Almighty God was BEGOTTEN in eternity past. And the SECOND GOING FORTH of Jesus is his SECOND COMING.
Also the Hebrew word translated as GOINGS FORTH also means ORIGIN speaking of ANCESTRY, FAMILY LINE or DESCENT.
So I myself must conclude that Micah 5:2 is NOT speaking of Jesus ACTUALLY and LITERALLY being BEGOTTEN by Almighty God in eternity past, but rather this verse is speaking of the ORIGIN of Jesus being OUT of the ANCESTRY or the FAMILY LINE of JUDAH and that his GOINGS FORTH were ORDAINED by his God and Father from ANCIENT time even before the foundation of the world.
This interpretation AGREES with the interpretation that Jesus PREEXISTED as the WORD WITHIN Almighty God who BROUGHT FORTH his SPOKEN WORD in PROPHECY to ONE DAY bring forth his Son in the fullness of the time when the Word was MADE alive in the womb of the virgin Mary to be BORN or be BEGOTTEN as the Son of MAN and called the SON OF the HIGHEST.
Does Micah 5:2 where the goings forth of Jesus have been from old, from everlasting mean that Jesus did NOT have a BEGINNING? Does Micah 5:2 prove without a doubt that Jesus has always existed with Almighty God the Father? Does Micah 5:2 prove beyond any shadow of a doubt the Jesus IS THE ALMIGHTY God who has always possessed IMMORTALITY? In other words, does Micah 5:2 prove the doctrine of the trinity and the doctrine of the deity of Jesus where Jesus is coequal and co eternal with Almighty God as the second person of the trinity and that Jesus is FULLY THE ALMIGHTY God in the flesh and fully man at the same time having TWO natures one divine and one human?
Here is Micah 5:2.
“But you, Bethlehem Ephratah, though you be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you SHALL he COME FORTH unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose GOINGS FORTH (or whose ORIGIN) have been from of old, from everlasting.”
This verse is a PROPHECY or the COMING Messiah who will be BORN or COME FORTH as a MAN out of the little town of Bethlehem. And this PROPHECY or more precisely this PLAN of Almighty God had its GOINGS FORTH or ORIGIN from of OLD from AGES ago before the foundation of the world.
Let us read this same verse from a few other translations and you will see that the Hebrew word for "GOINGS FORTH" has several meanings from ancestry, family linage, origin to purpose or plan.
Here is Micah 5:2 from the Bible in Basic English.
“And you, Beth-lehem Ephrathah, the least among the families of Judah, out of you one WILL COME to me who is to be ruler in Israel; whose going out has been PURPOSED from time past, from the eternal days.”
In other words, this PLAN of Almighty God has been PURPOSED from the very beginning before God ever created mankind. That is to say Jesus did not actually literally exist UNTIL he was BORN as a HUMAN Being by the spoken WORD of Almighty God who moved upon his very own spoken word to beget his Son that he named Jesus, which means the SALVATION OF YAHWEH. You see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, the word of God teaches us that Jesus did indeed have a BEGINNING. It may be that the WORD that was WITH God in the beginning was and actual separate SPIRIT BEING that was a part of Almighty God the ETERNAL SPIRIT, although I myself have not found any SOUND BIBLICAL evidence to truly support this interpretation. OR it may be that Jesus the SON OF Almighty God only existed in the mind and plan of God to one day bring FORTH just as Micah 5:2 teaches us. Let us keep reading and see what some other translations say.
Here is Micah 5:2 from the Common English Bible.
“As for you, Bethlehem of Ephrathah, though you are the least significant of Judah's forces, one who is to be a ruler in Israel on my behalf will come out from you. His ORIGIN is from remote times, from ancient days.”
In this translation we clearly see that Jesus did indeed have an ORIGIN, which means that Jesus did indeed have a BEGINNING no matter how long ago that beginning or ORIGIN may have been. You see dear child of God the Bible does not say when Yahweh PLANNED to have a SON. God's very first thought may have been I am alone and I want to have a SON. So God may have PLANNED to have a SON right from the very beginning before Yahweh created anything whatsoever.
Some Christians teach that the FIRST thing Yahweh brought forth into existence was his SON and then his SON created every things else. Many other Christians like myself do NOT believe that this is a true sound Biblical teaching.
Other Christians believe that Jesus was NOT brought forth into existence at all and the he was WITHOUT a beginning and has always been is existence WITH Yahweh at his side as God the SON the second person of a triune God. Again many Christians like myself do NOT believe that this is a true sound Biblical teaching either.
And yet other Christian believe that Jesus preexisted as Yahweh HIMSELF being ONE God is ONE person, which is what I and many other Christians believe as well, BUT NOT is the same way the ONENESS believers teach their doctrine, which is that Yahweh REMAINED fully Yahweh when Yahweh HIMSELF manifested HIMSELF in the flesh.
In other words what I myself and many other true born again Christians who sincerely love Jesus with all or our hearts believe is that when Yahweh himself BECAME flesh by speaking forth his word from within himself he then STRIPPED himself f ALL his DIVINE nature and power to take on the NATURE of HUMANS. An d then at the baptism of Jesus Yahweh HIMSELF came down from heaven to DWELL IN the flesh that he himself brought into existence by his spoken word being conceived in the womb of the virgin Mary who when she BELIEVED God's spoken word to her she said be it done according to your word.
Let us continue this study in God's word by reading some other translations where we see this COMING FORTH of Jesus to be both his BIRTH and his yet FUTURE coming forth to rule FOR Yahweh for a 1000 years and then commit the kingdom of God back into the hands of his God and Father Yahweh himself.
Here is Micah 5:2 from the God's Word Translation
So again we do not see the ORIGIN of Jesus being in ETERNITY PAST, but rather in the distant past to DAYS long ago. In this next translation we will see that the ORIGINS of Jesus is speaking of his HUMAN ANCESTRY or his FAMILY LINE being FROM the SEED of Jacob and the tribe of Judah through the linage of David. These all existed days long ago before the prophet Micah.
Here is Micah 5:2 from the Good New Translation.
Again the prophet Micah was a later prophet long after Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, which is the FAMILY line of Jesus from which he came forth and was born of the Virgin Mary. This is a PROPHECY of the coming Messiah which Almighty God will BRING FORTH and raise up from AMONG the people. To me this verse has NOTHING to do with a PREEXISTING Jesus except that Jesus existed in the MIND and PLAN of Almighty God the eternal Spirit to one day BRING FORTH as his LAMB to redeem mankind back to himself through his only BEGOTTEN SON Jesus.
Here is Micah 5:2 from the New International Reader's Version.
“The LORD says, "Bethlehem, you might not be an important town in the nation of Judah. But out of you will come a ruler over Israel for me. His FAMILY LINE goes back to the early years of your nation. It goes all the way back to days of long ago." Bethlehem was also called Ephrathah.”
Again none of these translations even hint of Jesus preexisting for all eternity. In fact they clearly teach just the OPPOSITE, because to have an ORIGIN means without fail that one cannot be ETERNAL. Some of these translations speak of his goings forth as his ancestry or his family line going back long ago. Other translations speaking of his ORIGIN being from ancient times. And one translation says the PURPOSE of his ORIGIN has always been from all eternity. But all of these translations are all speaking of his GOINGS FORTH as WHAT is being the ORIGIN or the BEGINNING which took place long ago in eternity past. In other words, it was the PLANS Yahweh made for BRING FORTH TWO goings forth of his SON that had their ORIGIN in ages long ago. And these two GOINGS FORTH were the FIRST coming or the first going forth of God's SPOKEN word to be conceived in the womb of a virgin to bring forth a CHILD just like the PROPHECIES of OLD foretold and yet to be is the SECOND going forth of Jesus, which is speaking of the RETURN of Jesus.
So you see dear child of God Micah 5:2 has nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus, the SON, God the SON or some separate spirit being called the Word preexisting for all eternity past WITH Yahweh at his side as a separate person. The FIRST going forth did NOT occur UNTIL God's SPOKEN word was conceived in the womb of the virgin Mary to be born as a HUMAN child who would be called the SON OF the highest God Yahweh the one true and only ALMIGHTY god and creator of ALL things including bringing FORTH his SON Jesus into existence. It was the "GOINGS FORTH" which had their ORIGIN from everlasting or form ages long ago. You see dear child of God Yahweh PLANNED that his SON Jesus be a LAMB SLAIN long ago before the foundations of the world, but this does NOT mean that Jesus was SLAIN from everlasting, but rather that the PLAN of the Lamb of God being SLAIN was made long ago form everlasting.
Please read the study “DID JESUS HAVE A BEGINNING?” for a deeper understanding that the HUMAN Jesus did indeed have a beginning. Also please read the study “UNDERSTANDING WHY?” for a deeper understanding that even the Word that was WITH God in a beginning had to be BROUGHT FORTH at some point in time even though in may have been so long ago one might as well say from eternity past.
But for now THINK things through for YOURSELF. The very meaning of the word "ORIGIN" in this verse proves beyond any shadow of a doubt the Jesus did indeed HAVE a BEGINNING. Therefore Jesus could NOT be Yahweh HIMSELF because Yahweh has never had a BEGINNING of ORIGIN. Jesus himself said that he COME FORTH OUT FROM Yahweh, which AGREE perfectly in harmony with the REST of God's word SPEAKING all things into existence by the IMAGE God has WITHIN himself coming out of his mouth to BECOME that IMAGE of God.
Thanks for reading. May God bless you richly as you continue to seek the TRUTH of the WHOLE word of Almighty God. Below are some other verses that are used to try and support the doctrine of the trinity and the deity of Jesus. There may be other verses which you may be having trouble seeing any other way than what you were dogmatically taught over and over for so long, but I assure you that each and every verse used by those who teach the doctrine of the trinity does indeed have a different meaning that does NOT CONTRADICT any other part of God's word. If there is a verse that I have not listed please do not hesitate to write and let me know. Some verse are included in others studies and they may not appear as an individual study.If there is a verse of verses that you seem to struggle with only being able to see the doctrine of the trinity when you read this verse, then please search out the truth be listening to the other side of the controversy. No one can arrive at the truth by hearing only ONE side of the controversy. I only present you with ALL the evidence that I myself have found and leave it to you to decide what you want to believe.
Your brother in our Lord Jesus Christ,
RETURN TO HOMEPAGE
Verses used to try and support the doctrine of the trinity.
Thanks for reading. May God bless you richly as you continue to seek the TRUTH of the WHOLE word of Almighty God.
Your brother in our Lord Jesus the CHRIST.
RETURN TO HOMEPAGE