MICAH 5:2 His goings forth, FROM EVERLASTING !



DOES MICAH 5:2


WHOSE GOINGS FORTH HAVE BEEN FROM OLD, FROM EVERLASTING”


PROVE THAT JESUS PREEXISTED?


         Some Christians use Micah 5:2 to try and prove without fail that Jesus preexisted as the SON OF Almighty God for ALL ETERNITY as God the SON without ever having a BEGINNING who was with God at his side as a separate divine eternal person of a Trinity Godhead.

         Other Christians, who have understood that the SON OF God was BEGOTTEN to mean without a doubt that Jesus as the SON OF God did INDEED have a BEGINNING, but the ORIGIN of the BEGINNING of the Son of God was of OLD from EVERLASTING. In other words, some Christians believe that Jesus, the SON OF Almighty God did INDEED have a BEGINNING, but his BEGINNING was NOT when Jesus was BORN of the VIRGIN Mary, but rather the INITIAL BEGETTING of Jesus was so far in eternity past that you might as well say that Jesus the Son of God has existed forever and the use Micah 5:2 to try and prove this teaching.

         And some Christians believe that Micah 5:2 proves that Jesus preexisted as Yahweh himself who has in his mind a plan of salvation to bring forth a Son in the future to be the Messiah so to them Micah 5:2 is a prophecy of the coming Messiah and it is the prophecy itself that had its origin in eternity past.

        Then there are yet other Christians who say that Micah 5:2 is a prophecy of bringing the Messiah into the world through a specific genealogy or ancestry and that this ancestry had its origin in ancient times. And thus Jesus preexisted only in the mind, thoughts, and plan of Yahweh.


         So then, which teaching is the TRUTH of the whole word of God? Is any of these four teachings a sound Biblical teaching that agrees with ALL of God's word? Or is there yet a fifth or six or even a seventh teaching that perhaps is even a sounder Biblical teaching than either of these four above teachings? Perhaps there is a little truth in all four teachings and we should discern what part is true from each teaching and throw the rest away in order to learn the true sound Biblical teaching of what the Bible itself has intended these words in Micah 5:2 to mean in the LIGHT of the whole word of Almighty God.

         Let us begin this study in God's word by reading Micah 5:2 with the FOCUS on the words that those who teach the above two doctrines EMPHASIZE to try as support their doctrine. The above two doctrines mentioned above are the doctrine of the Trinity and what the Jehovah's Witnesses teach or very similar to what they teach. The third above mentioned teaching in the doctrine of Oneness. And the four above mentioned teaching is what Biblical Unitarians teach or very similar to what they teach.

         Micha 5:2.


       “But you, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose GOINGS FORTH HAVE BEEN  from of old, FROM EVERLASTING.”


         Then they present their argument that MAN can NOT SAVE himself and that ONLY God can SAVE US. THEREFORE Jesus HAD to BE GOD in order for him to be our SAVIOR. And the only way for Jesus to be God is for him to be the one true God who never had a beginning. And thus if the Son had a beginning then Jesus could not be truly God because of having a beginning. Then they quote some verses which seem to be saying on the surface to support their point of view. They often quote Isaiah 43:11 first to show without a doubt the Almighty God ALONE is our SAVIOR and that we have NO OTHER savior but the ALMIGHTY.



       “I, even I, am the LORD (YHWH or Yahweh, the ONE TRUE, and ONLY ALMIGHTY God)and beside me there is NO savior.”



         Then they quote a verse from the New Testament where our SAVIOR is clearly speaking of Jesus the SON OF Almighty God the Father. They often quote Titus chapter 2 verse 10 and verse 13 together to try and show that Jesus is our SAVIOR, so, therefore, to them Jesus must be THE ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF in the FLESH being FULLY THE Almighty God and fully man at the same time.



       “Not purloining, but showing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in all things.

       13. Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious APPEARING of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ(speaking of the SECOND COMING of Jesus and being INTERPRETED by some as the GREAT God HIMSELF being our savior Jesus Christ. That is to say, some INTERPRET this verse to dogmatically without fail to mean that our savior Jesus Christ IS THE GREAT God MEANING that Jesus IS THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God Yahweh HIMSELF.)

       14. Who GAVE HIMSELF for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”



         In other words, some dogmatically demand that ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF gave HIMSELF to die for the sins of mankind by manifesting HIMSELF to be the Son. And to these Oneness believers teach that Jesus is the Father.

         While other Christians known as Trinitarians teach that Jesus preexisted as the SON OF Almighty God from all eternity past as being God the Son, the second person of a Trinity Godhead, who has always been with God the father at his side from all eternity past having NO beginning.

          Then there are Christians who say that it makes NO SENSE to them that a Son never had a BEGINNING so they use Micah 5:2 to say the God had a Son in eternity past whom God used to create all things. Some say God's son of BORN and some like that Jehovah's Witness say the God's Son was the FIRST created being and then the Son created everything else.

          Now whether God's SON had a BEGINNING or whether God's SON never had a BEGINNING the first two teachings of Oneness and the Trinity claim that Jesus IS THE ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF, because in the Old Testament it is clearly seen that ONLY Almighty God Yahweh is our SAVIOR and that there is NO OTHER SAVIOR other than Almighty God HIMSELF and yet in the New Testament Jesus, the SON OF Almighty God the Father is said to be our SAVIOR. Therefore they conclude the Jesus the SON OF Almighty God IS THE ONE TRUE GOD who ONLY is our SAVIOR. And their line of reasoning is that it is impossible to have TWO saviors.

         Then SOME Christians have concluded based upon the PREVIOUS conclusion that there cannot be TWO saviors and thus Jesus, the Son of Almighty God must, therefore, be THE ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF And then upon that conclusion they then concluded that the SON OF Almighty God had to have ALWAYS EXISTED for all eternity WITHOUT ever having a BEGINNING because the one true God never had a beginning. And therefore they MUST interpret Micah 5:2 to mean the Son has always existed without beginning otherwise the Son could not be God the Son, the second person of the Trinity Godhead. And over time they have so fixed this ONE meaning in their minds that it is had for them to see anything other than what they have always been taught to believe by their Trinity church denomination also called Orthodox Christianity or the mainstream church denominations that teach the doctrine of the Trinity.

         But yet OTHER Christians have come to realize that the Trinity conclusion can NOT be true, BECAUSE of the terms “SON” and “BEGOTTEN” which demand that the SON OF Almighty God the Father HAVE a BEGINNING at some point.

        BUT WHEN was the BEGINNING of Jesus the SON OF Almighty God the Father being BROUGHT FORTH take place?

         This is where Micah 5:2 comes into play. And how one understands this and other verse will affect what they believe. You see, some Christians read the phrase, “FROM EVERLASTING” and conclude that the ORIGIN of Jesus being brought FORTH had to be from ETERNITY PAST, because Micah 5:2 says, WHOSE goings FORTH were of from OLD, FROM EVERLASTING. Therefore some conclude that Jesus has always preexisted as the SON OF Almighty God the Father FROM all ETERNITY past who was a separate distinct person from the Father who was with the father at the Father's side.


         But is this TRULY what this verse is teaching us that Jesus was begotten of God in ETERNITY past? 


          So the question now becomes:

                 #1. Did Jesus the SON OF Almighty God ALWAYS exist as GOD the SON, the SECOND person of the TRINITY without ever having a BEGINNING as the doctrine of the Trinity teaches dogmatically demanding that Jesus is CO-ETERNAL with God the Father, where neither the Father nor his Son had a BEGINNING, but have ALWAYS existed as IMMORTAL beings. The doctrine of the Trinity also teaches that Jesus, the SON OF Almighty God the Father is CO-EQUAL with God the Father where neither is greater than, nor less than the other. OR

                 #2. Was Jesus the SON OF Almighty God the Father BEGOTTEN OF God in ETERNITY PAST? OR

                 #3. Was Jesus the Son of Almighty God CREATED in eternity past who then created all other things like The Jehovah's Witnesses teach? OR

        #4. Was Jesus BEGOTTEN as the SON of God for the very FIRST time WHEN the Word was MADE FLESH and BORN of the VIRGIN Mary and thus God's Son did not preexist in eternity past as a separate person who was with God at his side EXCEPT in the MIND, thoughts, and plans for Yahweh to one day have a Son? OR

        #5. Did Jesus preexist as Yahweh himself and then Yahweh manifest himself to become the Son at the Virgin birth?


         Let us now take a CLOSER look at Micah 5:2 being LEFT in the CONTEXT of where it is found to see what this verse is TRULY teaching us in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of Almighty God the Father.

         Micah 5:1-6.


       “Now gather yourself in troops, O daughter of troops: he has laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel (The judge of Israel here is speaking of Jesus the long-awaited PROMISE of the coming King of Israel. Please see Micah chapter 4 which is ALSO part of the CONTEXT of Micah 5:2. For now the "he" here is Israels ENEMY the antichrist at the end of days when the Messiah is prophesied to come to rescue Israel from their enemies. So then these enemies smiting the judge of Israel) with a rod upon the cheek (this MAY also be a hidden prophecy of the long-awaited coming King of the Jews their MESSIAH at his FIRST coming. Please read Matthew 27:29,30 which may be one fulfillment of this prophecy where Jesus is smitten on the cheek with a reed. “And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand [the symbol of a ruler]: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews! 30. And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head.” The gospel of Luke says that they smote him on his face.).

       2. But you, Bethlehem Ephratah, though you be little among the thousands of Judah (speaking of the little town of Bethlehem where Jesus was BORN of the Virgin Mary)yet OUT of YOU shall HE (speaking of the COMING SON OF God to BE BORN in Bethlehem SHALL he, Jesus) COME FORTH UNTO ME that is to be RULER in Israel (this wording is important to the TRUE meaning of this verse. In other words, this COMING FORTH UNTO Yahweh for the HE who would be BORN of a Virgine to become the ruler of Israel, to ME, is speaking of Yahweh calling the future generations that are not yet existing into being where his yet future Son will be born of a Virgin in this ancestral lineage at the FIRST COMING of Jesus when the Word of God came down from heaven by the angel Gabriel to be SPOKEN to the Virgin Mary. And when Mary agreed to the SPOKEN Word of Almighty God then the Word, as in, the SPOKEN word that was WITHIN God from the beginning was now in the fullness of the time MADE to be ALIVE in the womb of Mary to be BORN the Son of MAN who was to be called the SON of the HIGHEST); whose (speaking of the yet coming SON OF God) GOINGS FORTH (please notice that the GOINGS forth are PLURAL speaking of BOTH the FIRST and the SECOND COMINGS of Jesus. In other words, BOTH of the PROPHESIED GOINGS FORTH of Jesus, the SON OF God and COMING KING of Israel) have been from of OLD, from everlasting. (also notice that if so be the writer intended the Hebrew word translated as everlasting to mean eternity then he would NOT have used the phrase "form of OLD" along with the Hebrew word "olam" which has several meanings including meaning a long period of time like in Isaiah 42:15 where Yahweh says, for a LONG TIME I have held my peace.)

       3. THEREFORE will he give them UP (or BECAUSE the Jews reject the FIRST GOING FORTH of Jesus as the coming King and deliverer and had there Messiah crucified Almighty God gave his chosen people UP. That is to say blindness in part has come over the eyes of Israel), UNTIL the time that she which travails has brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.(this is speaking of the time of great tribulation and the wrath of God when Israel shall travail in pain until they cry out to be saved. God's people Israel will travail as a woman in birth until their Messiah is BROUGHT FORTH speaking of the SECOND GOING FORTH of Jesus.)

       4. And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for NOW shall HE (the one prophesied to come forth unto Yahweh he shall) be great unto the ends of the earth.

       5. And this MAN shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he (the Assyrian, the ANTICHRIST) shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men. 

       6. And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he comes into our land, and when he treads within our borders (verses 4-6 are speaking of the SECOND COMING of the SECOND GOING FORTH of Jesus will destroy the antichrist and the armies of Islam that fight against Israel. Please read the study "ISLAM IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST!").”


         So then, from the CONTEXT you can clearly see that this verse in question Micah 5:2 is PROPHECY of the TWO GOINGS forth of the coming Messiah that had it ORIGIN from OLD, from ANCIENT times speaking of before the foundation of the world. This verse has nothing to do with God's Son preexisting in all eternity past with or without a beginning in eternity past.

         The Bible teaches us that the LAMB was SLAIN from BEFORE the foundation of the world, but this does NOT LITERALLY mean that Jesus was crucified and died for our sin BEFORE mankind was ever created. But rather the ORIGIN of God's PLAN of salvation was of from OLD, FROM EVERLASTING or even from ANCIENT times.

          What this verse is TRULY teaching us is that the ANCESTRY or the LINAGE from which Jesus would be BORN was ordained by God in ancient times and NOT that the SON OF God was ACTUALLY BEGOTTEN in ancient times. Please read Micah 5:2 from some other translations and you will clearly see what I mean.

           Here is Micah 5:2 from the Bible in Basic English.


       “And you, Beth-lehem Ephrathah, the least among the FAMILIES of Judah, out of you one WILL COME to me who is to be ruler in Israel; whose going out has been PURPOSED from time past, from the eternal days.”


         From this translation, it is made clear to us that the goings forth of Jesus were PURPOSED from time past before these goings forth were to take place, from eternal days. Now while the Hebrew words translated as eternal days can mean from everlasting or from eternity past these words also mean from ANCIENT days, from OLD times,  along period of time, an age, and from the beginning of the world.


         Here is Micah 5:2 from the Common English Bible.


       “As for you, Bethlehem of Ephrathah, though you are the least significant of Judah's forces, one who is to be a ruler in Israel on my behalf WILL COME OUT from you. His ORIGIN is from remote times, from ANCIENT DAYS.”


         From this translation along with the other translation that we have already looked at we clearly see that the ORIGIN of Jesus the Messiah WILL COME OUT of the family line of Judah, which was PURPOSED to BE from long ago from ANCIENT DAYS.


         Here is Micah 5:2 from the Complete Jerusalem Bible.


       “But you, Beit-Lechem near Efrat, so small among the CLANS (or FAMILIES) of Y'hudah, out of you WILL COME FORTH to me the future ruler of Isra'el, whose ORIGINS (plural meaning the TWO GOINGS FORTH of Jesus the coming King of Israel speaking of the FIRST and SECOND COMINGS of the Messiah) are far in the past, back in ANCIENT TIMES.”


         Again the two comings or the two goings forth of the Messiah were PURPOSED or were ORDAINED in ANCIENT TIMES but not without fail from all eternity past to mean that the Son always existed as some demand this verse to mean.


         Here is Micah 5:2 from the Good News Translation.


       “The Lord says, Bethlehem Ephrathah, you are one of the smallest towns in Judah, but out of you I will bring a ruler for Israel, whose FAMILY LINE goes back to ancient times.”


        From this translation, we can see that the ORIGIN of the Messiah is speaking of his ANCESTRY or his FAMILY LINE being out of Judah.


         Here is Micah 5:2 from the New International Reader Bible.


       “The LORD says, "Bethlehem, you might not be an important town in the NATION of Judah. But OUT of YOU WILL COME a ruler over Israel for me. His FAMILY LINE goes back to the early years of your nation. It goes all the way back to days of long ago." Bethlehem was also called Ephrathah.”


         This verse clearly shows us that the ORIGIN of the Messiah or the King that is PROPHESIED TO COME WILL COME OUT of the FAMILY LINE of the nation of Judah and his ORIGIN was PURPOSED all the way back to days of long ago.


         Here is Micah 5:2 from the Young's Literal Translation.


       “And thou, Beth-Lehem Ephratah, Little to be among the chiefs of Judah! From thee to Me he cometh forth -- to be ruler in Israel, And his COMINGS FORTH [are] of old, From the days of antiquity.”


         From this translation, we can see that this verse is speaking of the FIRST AND SECOND COMINGS of the Messiah and that his ORIGIN or his FAMILY LINE will be from JUDAH.

         Now I would like you to read Isaiah 13:6-10, which is a PROPHECY of the SECOND GOING FORTH of Messiah, or SECOND COMING of the Jesus to execute the wrath of Almighty God.


       “Howl you; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

       7. Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:

       8.  And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travails: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.

       9. Behold, the day of the LORD comes, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

       10. For the STARS of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the SUN shall be darkened IN his GOING FORTH, and the MOON shall not cause her light to shine.”


         Can you not see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, that Micah 5:2 is speaking of the GOINGS forth of Jesus have been PURPOSED or ORDAINED from ANCIENT times for the Messiah's ANCESTRY or FAMILY LINE to be out of Judah and NOT that the SON OF Almighty God was BEGOTTEN in eternity past. And the SECOND GOING FORTH of Jesus is his SECOND COMING.

         Also, the Hebrew word translated as GOINGS FORTH also means ORIGIN speaking of ANCESTRY, FAMILY LINE or DESCENT.

         So I myself must conclude that Micah 5:2 is NOT speaking of Jesus ACTUALLY and LITERALLY being BEGOTTEN by Almighty God in eternity past, but rather this verse is speaking of the ORIGIN of Jesus being OUT of the ANCESTRY or the FAMILY LINE of JUDAH and that his TWO GOINGS FORTH were ORDAINED by his God and Father from ANCIENT time even before the foundation of the world.

         This interpretation AGREES with the interpretation that Jesus PREEXISTED as the WORD WITHIN Almighty God who BROUGHT FORTH his SPOKEN WORD in PROPHECY to ONE DAY bring forth his Son in the fullness of the time when the Word was MADE alive in the womb of the Virgin Mary to be BORN or be BEGOTTEN as the Son of MAN and called the SON OF the HIGHEST.



PART 2


MICAH 5:2

FROM EVERLASTING


       Does Micah 5:2 where the goings forth of Jesus have been from old, from everlasting dogmatically mean that Jesus did NOT have a BEGINNING? Does Micah 5:2 prove without a doubt that Jesus has always existed with Almighty God the Father? Does Micah 5:2 prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that Jesus IS THE ALMIGHTY God who has always possessed IMMORTALITY? In other words, does Micah 5:2 prove the doctrine of the Trinity and the doctrine of the deity of Jesus where Jesus is coequal and co-eternal with Almighty God as the second person of a Trinity Godhead and that Jesus is FULLY THE ALMIGHTY God in the flesh and fully man at the same time having TWO natures one divine and one human during the days of his flesh?

       Here is Micah 5:2.


     “But you, Bethlehem Ephratah, though you be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you SHALL he COME FORTH unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose GOINGS FORTH (or whose ORIGIN) have been from of old, from everlasting.”



       This verse is a PROPHECY of the COMING Messiah who will be BORN or COME FORTH as a child who would be born of a Virgin out of the little town of Bethlehem to become the Son of MAN. Then the Son of MAN Jesus would be given as God's perfect Lamb slain from the foundation of the world to atone for the sins of man. And this PROPHECY or more precisely this PLAN of Almighty God had its preordained GOINGS FORTH or ORIGIN from of OLD from AGES ago before the foundation of the world.

       Let us read this same verse from a few other translations and you will see that the Hebrew word for "GOINGS FORTH" has several meanings ranging from ancestry, family lineage, origin to purpose or to plan.

       Here is Micah 5:2 from the Bible in Basic English.


     “And you, Beth-lehem Ephrathah, the least among the families of Judah, out of you one WILL COME to me who is to be ruler in Israel; whose going out has been PURPOSED from time past, from the eternal days.”


       In other words, this PLAN of Almighty God has been PURPOSED from the very beginning before God ever created mankind. That is to say, Jesus did not actually literally exist UNTIL he was BORN as a HUMAN Being by the spoken WORD of Almighty God who moved upon his very own spoken word to beget his Son that he named Jesus, which means the SALVATION OF YAHWEH. You see my dear brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ, the word of God teaches us that Jesus did indeed have a BEGINNING. Some say that the WORD that was WITH God, in the beginning, was an actual separate SPIRIT BEING named the Word who was a part of Almighty God, the ETERNAL SPIRIT, although I myself have not found any SOUND BIBLICAL evidence to truly support this interpretation. 

       Nw I myself personally see that Jesus the SON OF Almighty God only existed in the mind and plan of God to one day bring FORTH a Son unto him just as Micah 5:2 teaches us. Let us keep reading and see what some other translations say.

       Here is Micah 5:2 from the Common English Bible.


     “As for you, Bethlehem of Ephrathah, though you are the least significant of Judah's forces, one who is to be a ruler in Israel on my behalf will come out from you. His ORIGIN is from remote times, from ancient days.”


       In this translation, we clearly see that Jesus did indeed have an ORIGIN, which means that Jesus did indeed have a BEGINNING no matter how long ago that beginning or ORIGIN may have been. You see dear children of God, the Bible does not say when Yahweh PLANNED to have a SON. God's very first thought may have been I am alone and I want to have a SON. So God may have PLANNED to have a SON right from the very beginning before Yahweh created anything whatsoever.

       But I myself do NOT see this happening that way. I myself see that God wanted a RIGHTEOUS Son who would NOT rebel against him like Lucifer did. Please read the study "UNDERSTANDING WHY?" for all the verses that to ME, clearly teach the BIGGER picture of WHY Jesus needed to be made a little LOWER than the angels. 

       Some Christians teach that the FIRST thing Yahweh brought forth into existence was his SON and then his SON created everything else. Most ALL other Christians like myself do NOT believe that this is a true sound Biblical teaching. 

       Other Christians believe that Jesus was NOT brought forth into existence at all and that he was WITHOUT a beginning and has always been in existence WITH Yahweh at his side as God the SON, the second person of a triune Godhead. Again many Christians like myself do NOT believe that this is a true sound Biblical teaching either. 

        And yet other Christian believe that Jesus preexisted as Yahweh HIMSELF being ONE God in ONE person, which is what I and many other Christians believe as well, BUT NOT in the same way that the ONENESS believers teach their doctrine, which is that Yahweh REMAINED fully Yahweh when Yahweh HIMSELF manifested HIMSELF in the flesh. 

        In other words, what I myself and many other true born-again Christians, who sincerely love Jesus with all or our hearts, believe that when Yahweh himself BECAME flesh he did so by speaking forth his word from within himself OUT FROM his very own mouth. I before he spoke any word on this matter, the IMAGE that he had in his mind needed to perfectly what God desired to bring forth to accomplish a purpose he needed to accomplish. So Yahweh then STRIPPED himself of ALL his DIVINE nature and power to take on the NATURE of HUMANS. Or to say this another way Yahweh changed the FORM of IMAGE he had within himself and decide that the IMAGE would not have any divine nature and that this form would take on HUMAN form to be like all humans are. 

       And then at the baptism of Jesus, Yahweh HIMSELF came down from heaven to DWELL IN the flesh that he himself brought into existence by his spoken word being conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary who when she BELIEVED God's spoken word to her she said, be it done according to your word.

        Let us continue this study in God's word by reading some other translations where we see this COMING FORTH of Jesus to be both his BIRTH and his yet FUTURE coming forth to rule FOR Yahweh for a 1000 years and then commit the kingdom of God back into the hands of his God and Father Yahweh himself. See 1 Corinthians 15:21-28.

        Here is Micah 5:2 from the God's Word Translation


     “You, Bethlehem Ephrathah, are too small to be included among Judah's cities. Yet, from you Israel's future ruler will come for me. His ORIGINS go back to the distant past, to days long ago.”


       So again we do not see the ORIGIN of Jesus being in ETERNITY PAST, but rather in the distant past to DAYS long ago beginning with Father Abraham seems to be the best fit for me as being the origin of the lineage of Jesus. In this next translation, we will see that the ORIGINS of Jesus is speaking of his HUMAN ANCESTRY or his FAMILY LINE being FROM the SEED of Jacob and the tribe of Judah through the lineage of David. These all existed days long ago before the prophet Micah.

       Here is Micah 5:2 from the Good New Translation.


     “The Lord says, Bethlehem Ephrathah, you are one of the smallest towns in Judah, but out of you I will bring a ruler for Israel, whose FAMILY LINE goes back to ancient times.”


       Again the prophet Micah was a later prophet long after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, which is the FAMILY line of Jesus from which he came forth and was born of the Virgin Mary. This is a PROPHECY of the coming Messiah which Almighty God will BRING FORTH and raise up from AMONG the people. To me, this verse has NOTHING to do with a PREEXISTING Jesus except that Jesus existed in the MIND and PLAN of Almighty God the eternal Spirit to one day BRING FORTH as his LAMB to redeem mankind back to himself through his only BEGOTTEN SON Jesus who would be begotten for the FIRST tiem in the womb of a woman just like the word of truth PROPHESIES in Jeremiah 31:22,

       "How long will you go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD has created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man." 



       So all the Micah 5:2 is saying that the MAN will be born of a woman in the city of Bethlehem to be the ruler of Isreal and this prophecy is of old prophesying that his LINEAGE will be out of the tribe of Judah going all the way back to Father Abraham whom God prophesied over saying I have MADE you the father of many nations in the PAST tense long before it ever came to pass through the Gospel of Jesus Christ being preached to the Gentile nations to become the seed of Abraham or more precisely the seed of PROMISE.

        Here is Micah 5:2 from the New International Reader's Version.


     “The LORD says, "Bethlehem, you might not be an important town in the nation of Judah. But out of you will come a ruler over Israel for me. His FAMILY LINE goes back to the early years of your nation. It goes all the way back to days of long ago." Bethlehem was also called Ephrathah.”



       Again none of these translations even hint of Jesus preexisting for all eternity. In fact, they clearly teach just the OPPOSITE, because to have an ORIGIN means without fail that one cannot be ETERNAL. Some of these translations speak of his goings forth as his ancestry or his family line going back long ago. Other translations speaking of his ORIGIN being from ancient times. And one translation says the PURPOSE of his ORIGIN has always been from all eternity. But all of these translations are all speaking of his GOINGS FORTH as WHAT is being the ORIGIN or the BEGINNING which took place long ago in eternity past that does indeed have a PURPOSE. In other words, it was the in the PLAN of Yahweh that he made for to BRING FORTH TWO goings forth of his SON that had their ORIGIN in ages long ago. 

        So to me, God did not form his plane of salvation in eternity past before any of his creation but rather formed his plan of salvation after Lucifer rebelled to make war with God to try and take over his throne. Again please read the study "UNDERSTANDING WHY?" to understand WHY I say this. And once you see the BIGGER picture of WHY God needed for Jesu to be made a little LOWER than the angels you will see the answers to many other questions of WHY like why does God allow suffering, why does God bind Satan for a 1000 years and then let him loose so he can go and deceive the nations one last time?

       And these two GOINGS FORTH were the FIRST coming or the first going forth of God's SPOKEN word to be conceived in the womb of a virgin to bring forth a CHILD just like the PROPHECIES of OLD foretold and yet to be is the SECOND going forth of Jesus, which is speaking of the RETURN of Jesus. 

        So you see dear children of God Micah 5:2 has nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus, the SON, God the SON or some separate spirit being called the Word preexisting for all eternity past WITH Yahweh at his side as a separate person. 

        The FIRST going forth did NOT occur UNTIL God's SPOKEN word was conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary to be born as a HUMAN child who would be called the SON OF the highest God Yahweh the one true and only ALMIGHTY god and creator of ALL things including bringing FORTH his SON Jesus into existence. It was the "GOINGS FORTH", as in, the PROPHECIES of these two goings forth which had their ORIGIN from everlasting or form ages long ago. You see dear children of God, Yahweh PLANNED that his SON Jesus be a LAMB SLAIN long ago before the foundations of the world, but this does NOT mean that Jesus was SLAIN from everlasting, but rather that the PLAN of the Lamb of God being SLAIN was made long ago from everlasting.     

        Please read the study “DID JESUS HAVE A BEGINNING?” for a deeper understanding that the HUMAN Jesus did indeed have a beginning. Also please read the study “UNDERSTANDING WHY?” for a deeper understanding of why God needed a MAN to live without sin and be slain without a cause.

         But for now, THINK things through for YOURSELF. The very meaning of the word "ORIGIN" in this verse proves beyond any shadow of a doubt the Jesus did indeed HAVE a BEGINNING if so be one dogmatically demand that origin can only mean preexistence. Therefore Jesus could NOT be Yahweh HIMSELF because Yahweh has never had a BEGINNING or an ORIGIN. Jesus himself said that he CAME FORTH OUT FROM Yahweh, which AGREES perfectly in harmony with the REST of God's word SPEAKING all things into existence to be the IMAGE that God has WITHIN himself coming out of his mouth to BECOME that IMAGE of God which he first FORMED in his mid and thought before speaking them into existence.


         Thanks for reading. May God bless you richly as you continue to seek the TRUTH of the WHOLE word of Almighty God. Below are some other verses that are used to try and support the doctrine of the Trinity and the deity of Jesus. There may be other verses which you may be having trouble seeing any other way than what you were dogmatically taught over and over for so long, but I assure you that each and every verse used by those who teach the doctrine of the Trinity does indeed have a different meaning that does NOT CONTRADICT any other part of God's word. 

         If there is a verse that I have not listed on the study menu then please do not hesitate to write and let me know. Some verses are included in others studies and they may not appear as an individual study. So if there is a verse or verses that you seem to struggle with only being able to see the doctrine of the Trinity or that the Son MUST have preexisted when you read those verses, then please search out the truth be listening to the other side of the controversy having a sincere and honest heart toward God to know ONLY the TRUTH no matter where HIS truth may lead you. No one can arrive at the truth by hearing only ONE side of the controversy. I only present you with ALL the evidence that I myself have found and leave it to YOU to decide what you want to believe. If I have explained a verse that you simply cannot except no way no how then that does not prove that I am wrong but that I am not so good at explaining that particular verse. When I make an error and it is pointed out to me then I go and correct that error.

       But sometimes what seems like an error in the eyes of a Trinity believing Christians is not an error contradiction the scriptures themselves but rather it is my understanding of scripture contradicting their understanding of scripture. So both sides need to listen to both sides. I have learned so much form listening to WHY Trinitarian Christians believe what they believe and it is my prayer that Trinity Believers will TRULY listen and do their best to understand WHY non-Trinitarians believe what they believe.

       Your brother in our Lord Jesus Christ,

       Mark.

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       Verses used to try and support the doctrine of the Trinity.

            Genesis 1:26--- Let us make man in our image.

            Genesis 18:1-3 Was Jesus ONE of the THREE MEN or angels who APPEARED to Abraham?

       Genesis 19:24--- YHWH rained down fire... from YHWH.

            Isaiah 6:3--- Holy, Holy, Holy.

            Isaiah 7:14--- Call his name Immanuel (meaning God with us)

            Isaiah 9:6--- Mighty God, Everlasting Father.

            Isaiah 48:16--- The Lord and his Spirit has sent me (Trinity)

       Micah 5:2--- From everlasting.

       Zechariah 12:10--- Look upon me whom they have pierced.

            Matthew 1:23--- Emmanuel, being interpreted God with us.

       Matthew 28:19---In the name of the Father, Son, & Holy Spirit.

            John 1:1--- And the Word was God.

            John 2:19-22--- Jesus raised himself from the dead.

            John 5:18--- Making himself equal with God.

            John 8:24--- If you do not believe I am [he], you shall die...

            John 8:58--- Before Abraham was, I am.

            John 10:30--- I and my Father are one.

            John 14:19--- He who has seen me has seen the Father.

            John 20:28--- My Lord and my God.

       Acts 20:28--- He has purchased with his own blood.

       Romans 9:5--- Christ came...God blessed forever.

            2 Corinthians 13:14---Trinity

            Ephesians 3:9-11---DID JESUS CREATE ALL THINGS?

            Colossians 2:9--- Godhead.

            Philippians 2:6---Thought it not robbery to be equal with God.

            1 Timothy 3:16--- God was manifest in the flesh.

            Titus 2:13--- Looking for... our great God and Savior Jesus...

       TITUS 3:2 God our Savior toward man APPEARED

            Hebrews 1:8--- Your throne O' God.

            Hebrews 7:1-3 ---Is Melchizedek a theophany of Jesus?---Who is Melchizedek?

       1 John 5:7--- And these three are one.

       1 John 5:20--- Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God...

            2 Peter 2:1--- God and our Savior Jesus Christ.

            2 Peter 3:18--- Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (Isaiah 43:11)

            Revelation 1:8--- I am Alpha and Omega...the Almighty.

       Revelation 1:17--- First and the Last (Isaiah 44:6)

            Revelation 17:14--- WHO IS THE KING OF KINGS.

            Thanks for reading. May God bless you richly as you continue to seek the TRUTH of the WHOLE word of Almighty God.

       Your brother in our Lord Jesus the CHRIST.

        Mark.


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