Reasons for a
The purpose of this study in God's word is to take a close look at these 250 reasons that are present by another author as her proof that God's word teaches a PRE-tribulation rapture of the church in order to see if they are SOUND BIBLICAL reasons. We will also take a look at the three main viewpoints for the timing of the RAPTURE or catching up of the church as it is taught to us in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and in 1 Corinthians 15:51,52.
The first of the three main views we will be looking at is the pre tribulation viewpoint, which teaches that the rapture of the church will occur BEFORE the time of great tribulation begins.
Then second viewpoint is the mid tribulation rapture, which teaches that the rapture will occur in the MIDDLE or MIDST of the tribulation.
Now in both of these first two viewpoints, the PRE and MID tribulation teachings it is taught by most, who teach these points of view, that the time of great tribulation is 7 years in length where the first 3 1/2 years is called the time of sorrows, which will mostly be filled with earthquakes, floods, famines, disease, wars, and rumors of wars. And the middle or midst of this 7 year period, then Antichrist shall appear and usher in the last half of great tribulation, which is also 3 1/2 years, or 42 months, or 1260 days.
Then lastly we will look at the post tribulation viewpoint, which teaches that the time of great tribulation is 3 1/2 years in length, rather than 7 years in length, and that the rapture of the church will not occur until immediately AFTER the time of great tribulation AT the time of the SECOND coming of Jesus.
At the end of this study I give you the information from the websites that teach the pre tribulation viewpoint which is where I found the 250 reasons for a pre tribulation rapture.
We will look at each reason one at a time and compare it in the light of the whole word of God. Now when I was reading over these 250 reasons I began to notice that some of these reasons were repeated and some points that were numbered as individual reasons in truth needed to be combined with several other points in order to form an understandable argument. So then, to ME, in reality there are far less than 250 actual different individual reasons. With that being said let us begin this study in God word to learn the TRUTH of WHEN the RAPTURE of the church will occur.
THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE’S MESSAGE OF IMMINENCE
Yes, I agree with this statement as far as yes, the pre-tribulation is the ONLY position that does NOT require certain prophecies or SIGNS to be fulfilled BEFORE the return of Jesus where he raptures or catches up his church to himself. However this simply statement of the PRE-tribulation teaching being the ONLY teaching that teaches that the coming of Jesus is IMMINENT does NOT prove without a doubt that the rapture of the church occurs BEFORE the time of great tribulation!
First of all to answer this question we must first understand what
those who teach the doctrine of the pre tribulation rapture mean by
the IMMINENT return of our Lord. In other words, HOW do those who teach IMMINENCE actually DEFINE the word "IMMINENT"?
Now the pre tribulation doctrine defines an "IMMINENT" event as an event that will most certainly take place, but is UNCERTAIN as to WHEN it will take place. In other words, based on THEIR definition of the word "IMMINENT" they make the CLAIM that there are absolutely NO SIGNS that need to be fulfilled FIRST before the rapture can occur.
BUT is this CLAIM that there are NO SIGNS that will take place BEFORE the COMING of Jesus a SOUND BIBLICAL claim? We will look at this question in a moment, but first I want to point out that that I searched the meaning of the word "IMMINENT" from several source and most every unbiased source and dictionary that I researched defined the word "IMMINENT" as something that projects over or towards, to hang over or above, to threaten. A more modern use of this word "IMMINENT" means that something is about to occur, or is impending. Now the word "IMPENDING" means to hang over or hover over menacingly, about to take place, to overhang.
Now for ME, I myself find nothing in the actual definition of this word
"IMMINENT" from any unbiased source to even remotely suggest that there is
absolutely NO need for any SIGNS to be fulfilled before the return of
our Lord to rapture his church to himself. However, I do find in the
actual meaning of this word that it accurately describes the
SECOND COMING of Jesus, which is an "IMPENDING" event.
Which to me is an event that will absolutely for certain take place,
but it is also an event that while it is necessary to occur, yet all aspects of
this event are NOT desired by everyone involved in this event. As you read through
this entire study in God's word this will become quite clear to you.
Let me at least begin to explain what I mean by this event of the
coming of Jesus wherein the RAPTURE of the CHURCH does indeed take
place, but is IMPENDING to some that will be effected in not a good way by the coming of Jesus. Here are two scriptures to read and closely
consider that even believers do not want this event to occur, but know it must be so.
Please read Revelation 22:20, that says, EVEN SO, come Lord Jesus, which gives us the idea that if there is no other way, then AMEN. EVEN SO come Lord Jesus.
Then, in Revelation 1:7, we read almost the same exact words, where we see those of the nations WAILING, because of his COMING.
God does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked and neither should we, but we know that it must be in order to put and end to wickedness. So then, you can see how this event known as the coming or return of Jesus can be embraced and desired by some, but at the same time a menacing overhanging event that causes others to WAIL, when they SEE it COMING upon them.
Now what else does the Bible say about this event called
the COMING of our Lord to rapture or catch up his saints to himself? Is the PRE-tribulation CLAIM that the COMING of Jesus to RAPTURE his CHURCH is an IMMINENT event stand FIRM in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of God? What does the BIBLE say about the SIGNS of the COMING of the Son of man? Of course there are NO SIGNS of a PRE-tribulation rapture of the church, because the word of TRUTH does NOT teach a PRE-tribulation rapture.
However, the word of TRUTH, the Holy Bible, does in fact teach that this event of the COMING of Jesus is definitely PRECEDED by SIGNS that WE, the CHURCH are to be LOOKING for in order to be sure to keep our lives pure and without sin. Please read Hebrews 10:13-25, which teaches us that when we SEE that day of our Lord's COMING APPROACHING or drawing near, then we should be even more diligent in provoking one another to love and good works.
Now ask yourself the question, 'HOW are we going to SEE the COMING day of our Lord APPROACHING, IF there are absolutely NO SIGNS that PRECEDE the coming of our Lord to rapture his church to himself?' The word "APPROACHING" here means drawing near or as we SEE that day of our Lord's COMING being AT HAND, or DRAWING NEAR, then we are the SO MUCH MORE to prepare ourselves for his coming.
Here is what Romans 13:9-14 says on this same subject of coming to KNOW the TIME of our Lord's COMING is AT HAND.
"For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Thou shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as thyself.
Now ask yourself the question 'HOW did these believers in the early church KNOW that the TIME of the DAY of our Lord's COMING was AT HAND, IF they were not LOOKING and WATCHING for the SIGNS of our Lord's COMING?'
The TRUTH of the matter is the Bible is filled with the teachings of Jesus and the early disciples WARNING us, the CHURCH, to WATCH and PRAY that we be accounted worthy or accepted at the time of his COMING. The scriptures make it PLAIN and quite evident that early church knew this TRUTH of WATCHING for the SIGNS of the COMING of Jesus. The word of TRUTH, the Holy Bible, in 2 Peter 3:1-12 CLEARLY teaches us that the early church were most definitely WATCHING for the SIGNS of the COMING of Jesus.
4. And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.(in other words, WHERE are all these SIGNS that are supposes to take place BEFORE the COMING of Jesus)
9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise (speaking of the PROMISE of his COMING), as some men count slackness; but is long suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish , but that all should come to repentance.
10. But the DAY of the Lord WILL COME as a THIEF in the night; in the which (or at which TIME) the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
WHAT was the early church LOOKING FOR? Well to ME it is made
perfectly CLEAR that they were LOOKING FOR the DAY of God or the DAY
of the Lord where Jesus will be COMING as a THIEF in the night in a
FLAMING FIRE taking vengeance upon those who have persecuted the
church and God people Israel. Please notice again that verse 12
PLAINLY states that the early church was LOOKING
or keeping WATCH for the DAY of God, WHEREIN the heavens being on
FIRE shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent
No where in the word of God do I find that we are told clearly and plainly that we are to LOOK for a SECRET RAPTURE of the church where believers are CAUGHT UP to meet Jesus in the air to RETURN with Jesus, or to go back to heaven with Jesus and remain there in heaven for 7 years in order to ESCAPE 7 years of great tribulation that shall be on the Earth, while the church is safe and secure in heaven.
However, we are CLEARLY and PLAINLY told that the early CHURCH was indeed LOOKING for the DAY of the Lord COMING as a THIEF in the night WHEREIN or at which TIME the heavens would be on FIRE.
But the word of God does not stop here but goes on to teach us in the following verses that we are NOT to FEAR, because we also have a PROMISE that God will provide for us a NEW heaven and a NEW Earth as well as DELIVERANCE and ETERNAL LIFE. So then, the simple and obvious question now arises, IF we are NOT going to be HERE when this occurs, as the doctrine of the pre and mid tribulation teaches, then WHY are WE, the CHURCH, told NOT to FEAR, when we SEE these things come to pass? Please read 2 Peter 3:13-18 which says,
we, according to his promise,
LOOK FOR (or
we also look for)
new heavens and a new earth, wherein
dwells righteousness. (as in our FOCUS is NOT upon the destruction that is coming, but rather on the promises of God for a NEW heaven and Earth.)
14. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that you LOOK FOR such things, (speaking of EVERY thing that Peter spoke about in the above verses of scripture, INCLUDING the church LOOKING FOR the COMING DAY of God or the COMING of Jesus as a THIEF in the night just as the apostle Paul wrote to us about in 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18 CONTINUING through chapter 5 verse 1 through 11, which is the principal verse used to teach the PRE- tribulation rapture of the church. WHEREFORE or for this reason, SEEING that YOU LOOK FOR such THINKS) be diligent that you may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
16. As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Jesus HIMSELF taught US, the CHURCH, to WATCH and PRAY and WHEN we shall SEE all these THINGS that are COMING upon the Earth, we are to LOOK UP, because THEN and ONLY THEN we will KNOW that our REDEMPTION is DRAWING NIGH or is AT HAND. Please read Luke 21:6-36, which teaches us that WE, the church, are to LOOK FOR some SPECIFIC SIGNS that will PRECEDE the COMING of Jesus as a THIEF in the night as the apostle Paul clearly teaches us in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-13 through chapter 5:1-11, which we will take a CLOSE look at further on in this study of God's word. But for now let us read what SIGNS Jesus told US, his CHURCH, to WATCH for in order to KNOW the TIME of his COMING is AT HAND.
28. And WHEN these things (speaking of the SIGNS in the SUN and in the MOON and in the STARS and the POWERS of heaven being SHAKEN) begin to come to pass, then LOOK UP, and lift up YOUR heads; (WHY?) FOR (or BECAUSE when you SEE these SIGNS, then KNOW that) YOUR redemption DRAWS NIGH.
36. WATCH YOU therefore, and PRAY always, that YOU may be accounted WORTHY to ESCAPE all these things that SHALL COME to pass (or the WRATH of God that is COMING UPON the world right AFTER we the church SEE these SIGNS in the SUN and in the MOON and in the STARS and the POWERS of heaven being SHAKEN), and to stand before the Son of man."
Now of course to those that teach the PRE and MID tribulation, and who refuse to let go of this false teaching, then all these verses that CLEARLY say YOU ,as referring to, US, the CHURCH, the faithful FOLLOWERS of Jesus, are said to be speaking of the SECOND coming of Jesus and are NOT referring to the SECRET rapture of the church that occurs BEFORE the great tribulation. In other word's they hold fast to this FALSE teaching of a pre-tribulation rapture and remain steadfast in their CLAIM that the YOU in all these verses DO NOT refer to US, the CHURCH, but rather they CLAIM that these verses refer to Israel and NOT the CHURCH. And YET they will quote verse 36 as one of their main verses to try and PROVE a PRE-tribulation rapture, because Jesus promise that the CHURCH would ESCAPE all these things.
"36. WATCH YOU therefore, and PRAY always, that YOU may be accounted WORTHY to ESCAPE all these things that SHALL COME to pass (speaking of the WRATH of God that is COMING UPON the world right AFTER we the church SEE these SIGNS in the SUN and in the MOON and in the STARS and the POWERS of heaven being SHAKEN, which immediately precede the SIGN of the COMING of the Son of man as we are taught in Matthew 24:29-31), and to stand before the Son of man."
Now HOW can any one in all honesty make the CLAIM that the YOU in this passage of scripture is speaking of Israel and then in the last verse suddenly CHANGE the very SAME YOU to mean the CHURCH?
You see, the ONLY reason that they are FORCED to make such a CLAIM is because they INSIST that the ONLY way the HARMONIZE the APPARENT contradictions in God's word is to DIVIDE the SECOND coming of Jesus into TWO separate and distinct comings. Which then consequently requires that there must be as well TWO separate RAPTURES, and even further consequently requires that there must also be TWO separate FIRST RESURRECTIONS of the SAINTS of God. Can you not see how just ONE wrong or incorrect ASSUMPTION or INTERPRETATION can lead to being forced to make needless explanations of other scriptures throughout the word of God?
Anyway, here is HOW they try to explain all this so called absolute need for there to be TWO separate comings of Jesus as being the ONLY way to HARMONIZE the scriptures. The writer of these so called 250 reasons for a pre-tribulation rapture begins her argument by using her so called DIFFERENT reasons numbering from reason 2 through reason10 to try and explain that there is a DIFFERENCE between the KNOWN and the UNKNOWN day and hour of our Lord's coming.
Now to ME I only see ONE argument being presented in these so called 10 DIFFERENT reasons. In other word's, to ME I only see these 10 different statements as being just ONE reason for argument number 1. The IMMINENT return of Jesus.
Anyway, here are her reasons that she numbers as 2-10 for a pre tribulation rapture of the church with my comments in yellow following each of her statements that she claims are different reasons, but I only really see as ONE reason.
First of ALL those that teach the pre tribulation point of view make the CLAIM of the IMMINENT return of Jesus and some feel that:
2. Instead of watching for Jesus to come in the air, instead of anticipating His arrival with joy, people watch for the APPEARANCE of the ANTICHRIST, for SIGNS, for wars, and for the unfolding of many other prophecies FIRST. This DESTROYS imminence.
the WATCHING for SIGNS certainly does DESTROY the IMMINENCE point of
view as DEFINED according to the pre-tribulation definition of the word imminence, which I must point out is just an ASSUMPTION that was drawn from an INCORRECT conclusion
made upon an APPARENT contradiction in God's word.
But for ME the looking
for the SIGNS of my Lord's COMING does NOT lessen my anticipating his
return with JOY! To ME I rejoice all the MORE as I SEE more and more
SIGNS being fulfilled, because I the KNOW that his coming is drawing
nearer! You see, while the flesh may not want to be persecute the spirit rejoices, because we know that great is our reward in heaven! So again, this is NOT a valid Biblical argument that proves a PRE-tribulation rapture of the church, but rather shows me that those who teach the FALSE pre-tribulation teaching are FEARFUL and are NOT ready for the coming days of great tribulation that whether they like it or not they WILL go through it, because the word of TRUTH does NOT teach a PRE-tribulation rapture of the church.
Now just because the ASSUMPTION is made that the ONLY way to reconcile this APPARENT contradiction of a KNOWN day and an apparent UNKNOWN day does NOT make this ASSUMPTION that the ONLY WAY to reconcile this APPARENT CONTRADICTION is to DIVIDED the SECOND coming of Jesus into TWO SEPARATE and DISTINCT comings,
You see, JUST making this ASSUMPTION does
NOT make it to be the TRUTH of God's word. I will explain what I mean
by this a little later on in this study. But for now just know that dividing the one and ONLY SECOND coming into TWO comings rather than the ONE SECOND coming that the Bible clearly teaches is NOT the ONLY solution to this APPARENT contradiction of knowing and not knowing the day and the hour.
ABSOLUTELY yes, of course we see that Jesus exhorted his followers to WATCH, because they did NOT KNOW the time of his coming, So CLEARLY Jesus warns us to WATCH so that one day when we SEE the SIGNS of his COMING, then we WILL KNOW the day and the hour of his COMING. I see these things that Jesus said more so as WARNINGS for US, his CHURCH, to WATCH in order that WE WILL KNOW the DAY and HOUR of his return. I mean think about it for a moment, what other reason would there be for us to WATCH for his coming IF it were NOT ever possible to one day KNOW the TIME of his COMING when we begin to SEE these SIGNS that he WARNED us to WATCH for in order TO KNOW the time of his coming?
Please read Revelation 3:3, which CLEARLY teaches US, the CHURCH, that IF we WATCH, then we WILL KNOW the HOUR in which Jesus COMES as a THIEF.
"Remember therefore how you have received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. IF therefore you shall NOT WATCH, I WILL come UPON YOU as a THIEF, and you will NOT KNOW what HOUR I will COME upon you."
Now CLEARLY the OPPOSITE of what Jesus said is EQUALLY as TRUE, which is that IF we DO WATCH, then we WILL KNOW the HOUR that Jesus COMES as a THIEF!
yes, at the time that Jesus spoke these words it was absolutely true
that NO man, no not the angels in heaven and no not even Jesus KNEW
that day or the hour of his return. But again this is the very reason
of WHY we are WARNED to WATCH and PRAY in order that one day WHEN we
SEE these SIGNS of his coming being FULFILLED, THEN we WILL KNOW the
day and hour of his return is AT HAND. So again this is not a valid argument that proves nor supports a PRE-tribulation rapture of the church, because it is is only ASSUMED or INTERPRETED that the passage of scripture in Matthew 24:42-47 of NOT knowing the day nor hour is to without fail mean the NO MAN will NEVER KNOW the day of the hour, which is OBVIOUSLY not the case, because ONE DAY those who are WATCHING and praying WILL KNOW the HOUR, AMEN!
the same response to the same argument is that we WATCH in order TO KNOW that the TIME is
drawing near or is at hand.
First of all to
me no true born again believer who IS WATCHING and PRAYING will grow
lax or cold in his or her relationship with the Lord, but RATHER will
be even MORE fervent in their faith to stay close to the Lord and
OBEY his commandments.
So then, it is just as Jesus said, those servants who do NOT WATCH for his coming will grow cold and fall back into sin and therefore will NOT be READY when he comes again. No true believer who is WATCHING and PRAYING would ever turn away from the Lord by saying there is plenty of time. ONLY those who are NOT WATCHING and PRAYING would ever think of going back into the deceivableness of sin.
The TRUTH of the matter is that I myself am WATCHING and the signs that I am seeing are clearly showing me that the day of our Lord's return is close at hand and this KNOWING of the nearness of his COMING has compelled ME to be all the more diligent to get SIN totally and completely out of my life.
Yes perhaps for some the NOT knowing of the exact day and hour would be an incentive to live a holy life, but looking at the church as a whole who believe and teach the PRE-tribulation rapture I myself do NOT see believers living this holy life so evidently not knowing the day is not enough INCENTIVE for Christians to live holy. The TRUE INCENTIVE should be that you LOVE the Lord, and that you BELIEVE the PROMISE of your reward of ETERNAL LIFE if you are found to be that good and faithful servant unto the end.
KNOWING or NOT KNOWING the exact TIME or DAY of his return should not
change how you are living. If it does, then I would question your
love for God, more so than caring when the rapture will occur. The
TRUTH of the matter is that the word of God teaches US, the CHURCH,
that WHEN we SEE the DAY of our Lord's COMING APPROACHING or DRAWING
NEAR, then we are SO MUCH THE MORE to exhort one another to do good
works and get SIN out of our lives.
But HOW would we KNOW when the
DAY of his coming is DRAWING NEAR if his coming again were truly an
UNKNOWABLE day as pre tribulation doctrine FALSELY teaches in my
opinion? Clearly the wordof TRUTH teaches us that ONE DAY we WILL KNOW the HOUR of our Lord's return IF we are WATCHING and praying! Remember it is ONLY and ASSUMPTION that when Jesus said NO MAN KNOWS that day and the hour that Jesus meant without fail that no man would NEVER know the day of the hour. Even in this SAME passage of scripture Jesus says, BUT KNOW THIS..., which to me teaches us that AT this TIME in history NO man including Jesus had PERCEIVED as YET the day of the hour, but Jesus was basically saying, BUT KNOW THIS... or BUT this much I have PERCEIVED so at least fro now KNOW THIS...We will talk more about this later on in this study, when we look at the meaning of the word "KNOW" in the original language.
As I have already shown,FROM the word of TRUTH, the Holy Bible, that the early church did not believe in an UNKNOWABLE day of our Lord's return, but RATHER the early church was WATCHING for the SIGNS that Jesus told them and us would take place BEFORE his coming. This is WHY when they found themselves in great persecution that the THOUGHT that the DAY of the Lord coming as a THIEF in the night was NEAR AT HAND, because Jesus told them and us that BEFORE these other SIGNS take place that there would be great persecution upon the CHURCH!
Also we all know that throughout church history and even in the writing of the New Testament we clearly see divisions and differences in what different believers BELIEVED. For example some believed that the resurrection had past, but those who taught the TRUTH held fast to the TRUTH of God's word that the resurrection is yet FUTURE. And we also know that BOTH sides could not be correct. So just because there has been found written factual evidence that different ones BELIEVED and wrote about what can be seen as a teaching for a pre-tribulation rapture does NOT mean that this evidence found in early church writings is the TRUTH of the WHOLE word of God, because CLEARLY there are ACTUAL PHYSICAL writings and teachings of FALSE doctrines found in early church writings. So to ME, in light of the WHOLE word of God this so called EVIDENCE is nothing more than the FALSE teaching of that day in history, nothing more and nothing less.
In TRUTH, the only thing that TRULY matters concerning SOUND BIBLICAL doctrine in what the WHOLE word of Almighty God itself teaches as being the TRUTH. Therefore let scripture interpret scripture.
I could bring HISTORY into this argument as well and show how many fought AGAINST this NEW doctrine and how it took more than a 100 years before if became a popular teaching. But again, just because a teaching is POPULAR does NOT make it to be the TRUTH of the WHOLE word of God. Therefore HISTORICAL arguments do NOT make SOUND BIBLICAL teaching in my opinion.
Yes, I personally agree that indeed heresies were introduced into the church by Augustine as well as others, such as the no millennium teaching mentioned above as well as other false teachings, However I seriously doubt that the lack of believing in the FALSE ASSUMPTION that the coming of our Lord is forever an UNKNOWABLE day, just because the day and hour was NOT KNOWN at the time that Jesus spoke those words is the reason for these early church fathers to drift into many areas of ERROR.
do agree that ONE WRONG ASSUMPTION can lead to many OTHER WRONG
ASSUMPTIONS that will ultimately lead to FALSE teaching and a
DISTORTION of the TRUTH of God's word. And THIS is WHY I am writing
this study in God's word, so that we all can come into a UNITY of
faith and that we ALL speak the SAME TRUTH that does not confuse the
PLAIN, CLEAR, and SIMPLE truth of the WHOLE word of God.
So then, to summarize what we have learned thus far, we have covered the first 10 so called DIFFERENT reasons used to support the pre-tribulation rapture of the church, but in reality we have cover just ONE point which is the false ASSUMPTION of an IMMINENT return of our Lord, which is defined by those that teach the pre-tribulation rapture as an UNKNOWABLE day and hour of our Lord's COMING. And this ASSUMPTION that dividing the SECOND coming into TWO distinct and SEPARATE comings is the ONLY way to HARMONIZE the scriptures so that there is NO contradiction between the KNOWN days and the seemingly UNKNOWN day of the coming of Jesus as a THIEF in the night.
The TRUTH of the matter is that Jesus taught US, the CHURCH, that at that particular time when Jesus spoke those words that NO man KNOWS the DAY nor the HOUR, not even the Son of man, but the Father ONLY, he was in truth saying to us that NO man, not the ANGELS in heaven, nor even he himself has PERCEIVED as YET the TIME of his coming. But in the verses to follow Jesus said, BUT KNOW THIS, or in other words, BUT THIS MUCH I HAVE PERCEIVED so for now at least KNOW THIS MUCH that I have PERCEIVED at this time. Please read Matthew 24:36-44 which teaches us that while we do NOT KNOW that day nor hour NOW, but IF we are faithful to WATCH and PRAY, then one day we WILL KNOW the time of our Lord's return.
"But of that day and hour knows NO man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father ONLY. (Now please play close attention to what Jesus says immediately following these words that NO man knows the day of the hour)
Can you not see my dear brothers and sisters in the Lord, that Jesus was NOT teaching us that NO man could NEVER KNOW that day and hour of his coming, BUT RATHER Jesus was teaching us that at that particular TIME that he spoke these words that NO man knew the time of his coming and that not even he himself had PERCEIVED as yet the time of his own coming, but that which he HAD PERCEIVED he wants us to KNOW so the WHEN we began to SEE these SIGNS that he WARNED us about, then we WOULD KNOW that his coming was nigh at hand.
Now for ME, I also see a CLUE as to the WHEN our Lord will return in verse 44 which says, Therefore be you ready, for IN such an hour or TIME when you THINK NOT that the Son of man will come it is in that very hour that the Son of man WILL COME.
Jesus said something about the DAY in which Almighty God will AVENGE his people that made me stop and THINK. Jesus made the statement that WHEN he COMES again he said WILL I FIND FAITH on the Earth when I COME? Please read Luke 18:1-8, which says,
So then, for ME, I see that WHEN Jesus returns it will be in a time that some will begin to THINK NOT that he will ever return. The Bible teaches us that there will be SOME in the last days who will scoff and mock those of us who are holding fast to our belief that Jesus will still yet come and these scoffers will say to the mainstream church things like, 'where is the promise of his coming, you said that we would be OUT of here by now, perhaps Jesus is NOT coming at all, perhaps there is no God after all, perhaps nothing you, the mainstream church, taught us is true.'
Can you not see how FALSE teaching can lead people away from God, even though this FALSE teaching is SINCERELY BELIEVED by those that teach what they have merely heard and then simply repeat what they themselves have been taught, without going to the word of God for THEMSELVES in order to see if what they are being taught is the TRUTH of the WHOLE word of God.
With that being said let us continue this study in God's word by looking at the next group of reasons or line of reasoning for the pre-tribulation rapture of the church, reasons 11-16 of which I agree with each one of them.
THE RAPTURE IS IN THE BIBLE
agree. Even though the actual WORD "RAPTURE" is NOT found
in any English translation of the Bible this does NOT mean that this
EVENT which has come to be called the RAPTURE of the church, which
teaches that the FAITHFUL BELIEVERS are CHANGED in a moment and n a
twinkling of an eye and then CAUGHT UP to met our Lord in the air,
this fact that the word rapture is NOT found in the Bible does NOT
prove that such an event is NOT taught in the Bible.
have heard this before, but I have not personally checked it all out
to see if it is factual. However, I do agree that the true sense of
being RAPTURED is being CAUGHT UP by FORCE. Now if you THINK about it AT the time of the SECOND coming of Jesus there will be some saints in PRISON that in essence will need to be FORCEFULLY removed. Also keep in mind that Satan most like won't want to give up any of mankind without a FIGHT, which again shows the need for FORCE. But with a so called SECRET rapture I do not see the FIGHT of the ENEMY against the army of God like we do at the SECOND coming of Jesus. So to me there is more FORCE see at the SECOND coming than just forceful WORDS, not that the words of Jesus will not be forceful. Either way this argument does not prove a PRE-tribulation rapture, because there will be a call to come up is a POST tribulation rapture as well.
agree. Look it up for yourself, bu against this does not prove a PRE-tribulation rapture..
I agree. As I said before the EVENT of being CAUGHT UP is definitely
taught in the Bible.
agree with every thing but John 14:1-3 as being a description of the
rapture of the church. I will explain a little later on in this study
WHY this particular verse was ADDED in order to try and prove a
pre-tribulation rapture of the church. In TRUTH John 14:1-3 has
nothing to do with the rapture and being taken up into heaven for 7
years in order to ESCAPE the time of great tribulation.
I agree with the very first part of this statement which says, 'The ACTIONS shown in Revelation 4:1 is a TYPE of the Rapture', but I want YOU, the reader of this study, to KNOW ALSO that there are six MORE such TYPES or FIGURES of the RAPTURE of the church found in the book of Revelation, which I will show you later in this study teaching the POST tribulation rapture of the church.
But for now I want to stay focused on WHY the pre-tibulation point of view DEMANDS that the ONLY WAY to HARMONIZE the APPARENT contradiction is to DIVIDED the SECOND coming into TWO separate and distinct comings of Jesus.
With that being said let us continue examining the 250 reasons for a pre-tribulation rapture of the church by looking at reasons
17-28, which to me clearly DEMAND that there has to be TWO DIFFERENT comings of Jesus.
TWO COMINGS OF JESUS? THE SECOND COMING IN STAGES
agree with this statement that many of the Jews did NOT in fact
recognize Jesus as their Messiah, because they did not discern the
two fold coming of Jesus as prophesied in scripture. In other words,
those that did NOT accept Jesus as their Messiah was due to the fact
that they beleived what they wanted to believe. However, this does NOT prove that the one and ONLY SECOND coming must without fail be DIVIDED into TWO separate and DISTINCT comings.
If anything it proves jsut the OPPOSITE seeing that we see ONLY TWO coming of Jesus in the OLD Testament, the FIRST coming being when he came to suffer and die for our sins and his SECOND and FINAL coming, when he come to RULE AND REIGN as king for 1000 years. I mean THINK about this and let it sink in, those who teach this FALSE doctrine of a PRE-tribulation are USING sound Biblical evidence that PROVES that there are ONLY TWO COMINGS of Jesus by their OWN addmission and yet what to use these same passages of scripture to try and prove that Jesus actually has THREE comings, one that has already been fulfilled and TWO more that are yet to be fulfilled. I mean THINK about this for awhile and really see how illogical this kind of REASONING truly is in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of God.
to this truth there is no denying that Jesus did in fact come the
FIRST time to SUFFER for the redeeming of mankind back to God.
I absolutely agree that in the SECOND coming of Jesus that he will be
coming as a CONQUERING King at which time he will conquer the
enemies of his people and ALSO RESCUE or SAVE his people from total
destruction. The word of TRUTH absolutely teaches just TWO comings of Jesus, but the FALSE teaching of the PRE-tibulation doctrine tries to stick a THIRD coming right in between these TWO comings that the BIBLE CLEARLY teaches as being TWO and NOT three as this man made doctrine is trying to ADD right in the middle.
Yes, most definitely I agree that PRECONCEIVED ideas keep us from coming to the knowledge of the TRUTH. We must be LED by the Holy Spirit and let HIM be our teacher. And I agree that very often those who are as the writer here says, "religious" people are usually the ones who become INFURIATED when other do not AGREE with what they are teaching. I had this happen to me once on another topic when I was asked to share what I believed, and when what I believed did NOT agree with what this other person believed I could see this person becoming INFURIATED because I did NOT agree with them. To me I do not believe this is a RIGHT spirit to have and to ME it shows the one who is in ERROR.
But just because the Jews did not see in the scriptures that there were TWO comings of Jesus doe NOT give anyone the right to ADD a THIRD coming of Jesus, when the SCRIPTURES CLEARLY teach that Jesus was to come TWO times. Even those who teach this FALSE doctrine of the PRE-tribulation rapture PLAINLY state that the OLD Testament prophesies of TWO coming of Jesus and yet they BLINDLY do not SEE that they are ADDING a THIRD coming of Jesus by DIVIDING the ONE and ONLY SECOND coming into TWO separate and DISTINCT comings.
Again I most heartily agree that PRECONCEIVED ideas get in the way of understanding the TRUTH and that we all need to depend upon the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us into all TRUTH.
This is WHY I find it hard to understand WHY there are some who cannot SEE the SIMPLE TRUTH that the Bible CLEARLY and PLAINLY teaches ONLY ONE SECOND coming of Jesus. The Old Testament taught of just TWO comings where our Lord's FIRST coming was to SUFFER and BOTH the Old and New Testaments teach of ONLY ONE SECOND coming of Jesus, where he is RETURNING to conquer his enemy and REIGN for 1000 years.
Nowhere does the CLEAR, PLAIN, and SIMPLE word of God teach that the SECOND coming is to be DIVIDED into TWO separate and DISTINCT comings, which to ME would therefore be saying that the Bible teaches THREE coming of Jesus, or more specifically ONE coming and TWO returns.
TRUTH of the matter is that the WHOLE word of God teaches that there
is ONLY ONE SECOND coming of Jesus and it is NOT going to be DIVIDED
into TWO SEPARATE comings in order for it to be the ONLY WAY to
HARMONIZE some APPARENT contradictions in the word of God. No my dear
brothers and sisters in the Lord, ALL these APPARENT contradictions
can EASILY be explained in other ways, WITHOUT DEMANDING that ONE
and ONLY SECOND coming be DIVIDED in to TWO. We will cover these OTHER easily explained explanation of how to reconcile these APPARENT contradiction in God's word, without ADDING a THIRD coming of Jesus.
this what the FALSE teaching of the pre-tribulation point of view
teaches. But again this simple statement does NOT make it a TRUE
my dear brothers and sisters in the Lord, this passage of scripture
found in 1 Corinthians 15:22-25, when LEFT in the CONTEXT of where it
is found teaches us a TIMELINE of EVENTS, but NOT different STAGES of
the FIRST resurrection. I will go in depth later on in this study to absolute prove without a doubt that this passage of scripture in NO WAY proves different stages of the ONE and ONLY FIRST resurrection. Remember what I said at the beginning that just ONE wrong of incorrect ASSUMPTION of INTERPRETATION will lead to having to CHANGE the meaning of many more CLEAR, PLAIN and SIMPLE words such as this word "FIRST", which clearly means that there will be no other resurrection the preceded or come before this resurrection.
Also please KNOW and realize that when this fact is clearly shown to you that the FIRST resurrection is NOT DIVIDED into different stages, then it is ALSO proven the the SECOND coming cannot be DIVIDED as well. Again we will take a look at this in-depth a little later in this study in God's word.
24. (a.) Christ is the FIRSTFRUITS of those who RISE from the dead. This happened on the Feast of First fruits, three days AFTER Jesus died.
True. But again this is NOT an argument of reason for a PRE-tribulation rapture of the church.
This statement of this portion of this verse meaning that it is speaking of a PRE-tribulation rapture is just an ASSUMPTION or INTERPRETATION that is made in order to try to explain that the FIRST resurrection is ALSO divided in not just TWO parts but THREE parts or STAGES, because THREE different STAGES of a FIRST resurrection are needed in order for the FALSE doctrine of the pre-tribulation point of view to be accepted by those who were being brought to the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of God by the TRUTH of the FIRST resurrection and the SECOND and FINAL resurrection and ONLY other resurrection that the BIBLE teaches will take place.
I can personally attest to the fact that this was NOT taught in the earlier days of the PRE-tribulation doctrine, because no one brought up the fact that there MUST without fail be a RESURRECTION at the time of the rapture in the early days of the PRE- tribulation teaching. It was only when people started to see the TRUTH because they saw that there was TWO and ONLY two resurrections, the FIRST resurrection being at the time of the RAPTURE and the second and only other resurrection to take place would be at the END of the 1000 year reign. It was only after people began to SEE this TRUTH that the PRE-trib need to come up with a passage of scripture that would somehow justify the SPLITTING of the FIRST resurrection into stages as well. Other wise they would be PROVEN wrong about dividing the SECOND coming into TWO searate and DISTINCT comings. I will go into this more in-depth later on in this study. These comments are just meant to be brief rebuttals.
when this passage of scripture is KEPT in the CONTEXT of where it is
found anyone can CLEARLY see that this passage of scripture does NOT
teach that the FIRST resurrection is DIVIDED into THREE DIFFERENT
STAGES or parts. Again, I will explain this in a moment.
sequence of 1 Corinthians shows nothing more than a simplified
TIMELINE of DIFFERENT EVENTS, which I will explain thoroughly is a
moment right after reason number 28. and then the reader will truly see that PLAIN SENSE really does make PERFECT SENSE.
I whole heartily agree, we must RIGHTLY DIVIDE the word of TRUTH and
NOT DIVIDE the ONE AND ONLY SECOND coming of Jesus! And therefore ADD a THIRD coming in the process, when the OLD Testament clearly teaches ONLY TWO comings of Jesus.
As I said earlier, in order for the pre-tribulation doctrine to make any sense of some SEEMINGLY contradicting verses in the Bible it was therefore ASSUMED that the ONLY WAY to reconcile or harmonize these seemingly contradictory verses of scripture was to DIVIDE the ONE and ONLY SECOND coming into TWO different COMINGS of Jesus. Then by doing this the pre-trib teaching created another problem which is, what to do with the ONE and ONLY ONE FIRST resurrection of the DEAD IN CHRIST. Those who teach the PRE-tribulation had to come up with a passage of scripture that would justify how can the DIVIDING of the FIRST resurrection into DIFFERENT STAGES of PHASES so that there reasoning would be justified in scripture? But they needed a verse or passage of scripture to support their DIVIDING of the FIRST resurrection into not just TWO, but THREE different STAGES.
Thus they came up with 1 Corinthians 15:22-25 to TRY and support their REASONING for DIVIDING what to ME is OBVIOUSLY a SINGLE EVENT that the Bible calls the FIRST resurrection.
Now the FLESH of those who have been taught this false doctrine of the PRE-tribulation rapture do not really need any SOUND Biblical explanation, because the FLESH want to BELIEVE any doctrine that sound PLEASING to the ears, therefore many just BLINDLY accept this makeshift explanation to try and explain a three stage FIRST resurrection. But what many who believe the pre-tribulation doctrine DO NOT know is that 1 Corinthians 15:22-25 in NOT KEPT in the CONTEXT of where it is found.
So then, let us see what is TRULY meant by this passage of scripture by KEEPING it in the CONTEXT of where it is found by reading 1 Corinthians 15:12-28 which teaches us that the LAST ENEMY that shall be destroyed is DEATH and THEN shall be the END.
19. IF in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.(Please notice that the SUBJECT under discussion is whether or not there IS a resurrection of the DEAD and NOT that the FIRST resurrection is done in STAGES. Up to now the emphasis has been placed on the question of IF there be NO resurrection, but in the verses to follow it changes to leave no doubt that Christ IS risen from the DEAD)
23. BUT every man in his own ORDER: Christ the first fruits; AFTERWARD they that are Christ's AT his COMING (speaking of the FIRST resurrection where the DEAD IN CHRIST are resurrected and given ETERNAL LIFE AT the SECOND COMING of Jesus).
24. THEN comes the END, WHEN he (speaking of Jesus) shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, (now ask yourself WHEN, speaking of the END, WHEN will Jesus DELIVER UP the KINGDOM BACK into his Father's hand?) even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
26. The LAST enemy that shall be destroyed is DEATH.(so now arises the question of WHEN is this LAST enemy DESTROYED and put under his feet?)
In verse 24 we learn that the END does NOT COME, UNTIL
Jesus DELIVERS the KINGDOM of Almighty God BACK into his Father's
hand, which is at the END of the 1000 year reign of Jesus. Please notice the word WHEN that I emphasis teaches us WHEN the
END shall COME. In other words, the END is NOT the END of the time of
great tribulation,as those who teach the FALSE doctrine of the PRE-tribulation would have you to believe, but RATHER the END hear is speaking of WHEN Jesus
will DELIVER the KINGDOM back into his Father's hand, which is clearly at the END of the 1000 year reign of Jesus.
24. "THEN comes the END, WHEN he (speaking of Jesus) shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, (now ask yourself WHEN, speaking of the END, WHEN will Jesus DELIVER UP the KINGDOM BACK into his Father's hand?) even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power."
Then is the very next verse, verse 25 we learn that the END will NOT come, UNTIL ALL the enemies of God are DESTROYED and put under his feet.
25. "For he (speaking of Jesus) must reign, till he (Almighty God) has put ALL enemies under his feet."
Then in the next verse we are immediately told that the LAST enemy to be DESTROYED and therefore placed under his feet is DEATH. So then, it is ONLY AFTER this LAST enemy DEATH is DESTROYED that the END will COME. Please read verse 26 again.
26. "The LAST enemy that shall be destroyed is DEATH. (so now arises the question of WHEN is this LAST enemy DESTROYED and put under his feet?)"
As you have seen I have already asked the question of WHEN is the LAST enemy called DEATH going to be DESTROYED that will bring us to the END, which is WHEN Jesus will deliver the kingdom back into his Father's hand. For the ANSWER to this question please turn to Revelation chapter 20 and read verse 1 through 3, which teaches us that AT the SECOND coming of Jesus after the armies of Satan are defeated that Satan will be BOUND for 1000 years while Jesus REIGNS in his Father's kingdom for this SAME 1000 year period of time. And then AFTER the 1000 year REIGN of Jesus, the Satan will be LOOSE out of the pit, where he has been BOUND for 1000 years.
3. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations NO more, TILL the thousand years should be fulfilled: and AFTER that (speaking of AFTER the 1000 years are fulfilled) he must be LOOSED a little season."
So then, WHY is Satan, the Devil, LOOSED again after he has been BOUND for 1000 years and NOT allowed to TEMPT and DECEIVE the nations during this 1000 year period of time? And WHAT happens AFTER the 1000 year REIGN of Jesus WHEN Satan is LOOSED for a little season. The answer to WHAT takes place AFTER the 1000 year REIGN of Jesus right BEFORE he DELIVERS the KINGDOM back in the hands of his Father is given to use in Revelation 20:7-15, which says,
12. And I saw the DEAD, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the DEAD were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
14. And DEATH and hell were CAST into the lake of fire. This is the second DEATH (or the FINAL DEATH where there shall be DEATH NO MORE. Or in other words, this is WHEN the LAST enemy DEATH shall be DESTROYED, WHEN DEATH is CAST into the lake of fire to be DESTROYED).
The writer continues in the very next chapter Revelation 21:1-4 and goes on the say that DEATH shall be NO MORE!
3. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Can you not see my dear brothers and sisters in the Lord, that the END spoken of in 1 Corinthians 15:22-25 is NOT what those who teach the pre-tribulation view TRY to make mean as the END, which they say is to mean the END of the time of great tribulation where the "SO CALLED" tribulation saints, which SUPPOSEDLY is NOT the church are RESURRECTED in the "SO CALLED" THIRD STAGE of the FIRST resurrection. HOWEVER, in TRUTH, the END is actually speaking of the the END of the 1000 year reign of Jesus WHEN the LAST enemy DEATH is cast into the lake of fire to be DESTROYED so that there will be DEATH NO MORE?
Can you not see how those that teach the pre-tribulation point of view have to take verses OUT of there CONTEXT and then TWIST these verse in order to make then FIT their FALSE ASSUMTION that they have made that the SECOND coming of Jesus MUST WITHOUT FAIL be DIVIDED into TWO separate and distinct comings of Jesus, when in TRUTH the BIBLE only teaches of ONE and ONLY ONE SECOND coming of Jesus?
No my dear brothers and sisters in the Lord there is ONLY ONE SECOND coming of Jesus and there is ONLY ONE FIRST resurrection. Please read Revelation 20:4-6, which teaches us what takes place AT the TIME when Satan is BOUND for 1000 years right BEFORE Jesus REIGNS in his Father kingdom for 1000 years. Please play very CLOSE ATTENTION to these words and to what were are being taught by the Holy Spirit of Almighty God, the Father.
"And I saw THRONES, and THEY sat upon them, and judgment was given unto THEM (speaking of those who sat upon these THRONES): and I saw the souls of THEM that were BEHEADED for the witness of Jesus, AND for the word of God, and which had NOT worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and THEY (speaking of those who sat upon the THRONES, some of which were beheaded for their steadfast faith in Jesus and others for their testimony of the word of God, and none of which worshiped the beast nor received his mark, THEY) LIVED AND REIGNED WITH Christ a thousand years.
6. Blessed and holy is he that has part in the FIRST resurrection: on such the second death has no power, but THEY (speaking of those who WENT THROUGH the time of GREAT TRIBULATION and who did NOT worship the beast nor take his mark) shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall REIGN WITH him a thousand years."
CLEARLY these "SO CALLED" tribulation saints who SUPPOSEDLY are NOT the church DEFINITELY without fail are REUSURRECTED in order to LIVE and REIGN WITH Jesus DURING the 1000 years. Can you not see that the word "FIRST" means just what it says, FIRST, which means that there are NO OTHER resurrections or SO CALLED STAGES of this same FIRST resurrection that occur BEFORE this FIRST resurrection.
Now I see the wheels turning in some of your heads that almost immediately say, "What about the RESURRECTION of Jesus? Was not Jesus RESURRECTED BEFORE this FIRST RESURRECTION? Therefore the RESURRECTION of Jesus MUST be a PART of this FIRST RESURRECTION!"
Again this is just another FALSE ASSUMPTION or false CONCLUSION that is NOT based upon the WHOLE word of God. For you see, the FIRST resurrection,which was PROPESIED by the apostle John, the writer of the book of Revelation, was not seen, heard, written or PROHESIED by John, UNTIL AFTER Jesus had ALREADY been RESURRECTED and ASCENDED into heaven. Can you not see my dear brothers and sisters in the Lord, that the FIRST resurrection is a SINGLE ONE TIME EVENT that takes place AT the SECOND coming of Jesus, which is ALSO a SINGLE ONE TIME EVENT that occurs IMMEDIATELY AFTER the time of GREAT TRIBULATION?
Also please take a CLOSE look at the very SIMPLE and PLAIN word "REST" that is used by the writer to CLEARLY show us that there is going to be TWO and ONLY TWO RESURRECTIONS in the future; the FIRST resurrection where the DEAD IN CHRIST are resurrected, AND the SECOND and FINAL resurrection the ONLY OTHER resurrection that will take place where the REST of the dead are raised, which is at the END of the 1000 year reign of Jesus when the LAST enemy DEATH shall be DESTROYED and the END shall come WHEN Jesus delivers the kingdom back into the hands of his Father, Almighty God.
The word "REST" means ALL that REMAINS, or
every one who is left who has not yet been resurrected in the FIRST
resurrection. These two SIMPLE, PLAIN, and CLEAR words, "FIRST" and "REST"
when used together as they have been used in Revelation 20:4-6 DEMAND
that there be TWO and ONLY TWO resurrections that will take place in
Can you not see my dear brothers and sisters in the Lord,
the ERROR of the PRE-tribulation teaching that TRIES to place
ANOTHER resurrection in BEFORE the FIRST resurrection of the DEAD IN
CHRIST, which the BIBLE teaches takes place AT the RAPTURE of the CHURCH, which the BIBLE teaches take place AT the SECOND coming of Jesus. But when the PRE-tribulation doctrine
makes the CLAIM that the rapture takes place BEFORE the time of great tribulation, then the FIRST resurrection must be MOVED to BEFORE the time of great tribulation, because there must be a FIRST resurrection at the time of the RAPTURE. Can you not see that when they TRY
to place ANOTHER resurrection BEFORE the time of great tribulation, then they REMOVE the FIRST resurrection, which the BIBLE clearly teaches takes place AT the SECOND coming of Jesus immediately AFTER the time of great tribulation, and therefore the "SO CALLED" tribulation saints have NO resurrection in which to be resurrected in order to LIVE and REIGN with Jesus, BECAUSE the PRE-tribulation teaching MOVED it to be BEFORE the time of great tribulation which would be BEFORE the tribulation saints would be KILLED. In other words, we KNOW that the saints who die DURING the time of great tribulation will LIVE and reign with Jesus and the SECOND death has NO POWER over them, therefore they had received their reward of ETERNAL LIFE and do NOT rule and reign with Jesus in their MORTAL bodies. But IF the rapture is MOVED to BEFORE the time of great tribulation the so must the FIRST resurrection be MOVED right along with it, which would then leave the only other resurrection to take place to be at the END of the 1000 year reign of Jesus, which woulf be TOO LATE for the saints who died during the great tribulation to be resurrected to LIVE and REIGN with Jesus DURING the 1000 years. The ONLY ways to make all these verses FIT is to leave the RAPTURE of the CHURCH at the SECOND coming of Jesus, which is where the BIBLE plainly teaches that it occurs.
Again meanings of clear simple words need to be TWISTED and CHANGED in order to make the FALSE teaching of the PRE-tribulation rapture to fit the word of God. SECOND coming means SECOND coming and NOT TWO SEPARATE and DISTINCT comings that are separated by a 7 year period of time! FIRST resurrection means FIRST resurrection and NOT THREE DIFFERENT STAGES of the SAME resurrection! And REST of the DEAD are resurrected at the END of the 1000 years means exactly that, the REST of the dead are resurrection at the END of the 1000 year reign of Jesus which is WHEN the LAST enemy DEATH shall be DESTROYED and the END shall come where Jesus delivers up the kingdom to his Father, Almighty God.
So then, my dear brothers and sisters in the Lord, let us RIGHTLY DIVIDED the WORD of Almighty God by NOT DIVIDING these CLEAR SIMPLE and PLAIN words that the Bible uses to describe the SECOND coming of Jesus and the FIRST resurrection where the only dead IN Christ are resurrected, and the phrase REST of the dead are resurrected at the END of the 1000 years reign in order to TRY and prove a FABLE that is more pleasing to the ear to hear.
With that being said let us continue this study in God's word by reading reasons 29-57 of the 250 reasons for the pre-tribulation rapture of the church.
DON’T CONFUSE ISRAEL AND THE CHURCH!
Yes, agree, the Bible does teaches a difference between
Israel and the church. But this does NOT prove a pre-tribulation
rapture of the church. The post tribulation teaching makes this clear
distinction as well. It should also be noted that God is making ONE of Israel and the Gentiles, which is the church, but called the ELECT or chosen of God. So then, Israel is the ELECT of God, but so ALSO is the CHURCH the ELECT of God.
what CONFUSES the message of the 70th week spoken of in Daniel
9:24-27 is the INTERPRETATION given by those who teach the
pre-tribulation point of view. It is the WRATH of God that the church is NOT appointed to and NOT the time of great tribulation. More on this later.
the nothing in confused by the teaching of the POST tribulation
timing of the rapture of the church and in no way does it destroy
God's program or plans for his people Israel. God did NOT remove Israel from the earth while he turned to the GENTILES who were added to the CHURCH or the ELECT. God is still dealing with his CHOSEN people Israel while the CHURCH is still here on the earth. The thing is that the word of God also teaches us the judgment must BEGIN at the HOUSE of God, speaking of the CHURCH.
32. The Post-Trib view denies the clear teaching of the 70th week by subjecting the literal prophecy to one form or another of allegory. It gives Israel’s destiny to the Church!
church going through the great tribulation period does not give the
prophecies related to Israel to the church, which you, the reader,
will clearly see as you continue to read this study in God's word to
come to the knowledge of the TRUTH.
Here is what Zechariah 13:8-9 actually teaches us,
"And it shall come to pass, that in ALL the LAND, says the LORD, two parts THEREIN (speaking of two thirds of ALL the LAND) shall be cut off and DIE; but the third shall be left THEREIN (speaking of one third be left alive and not cut off in ALL the LAND).
9. And I will bring the third part through the fire (or one third that is left alive and not cut off will be brought through the fire that is presently engulfing them), and WILL refine them as silver is refined (referring to the yet FUTURE refining that will take place during the 1000 year reign of Jesus where they will be TAUGHT of the Lord), and WILL try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say , It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God."
So then the question arises, is the TWO THIRDS who are cut off and killed during this time speaking of ONLY ISRAEL, or is it referring to ALL the people in the LAND? In other words, during the great tribulation and the WRATH of God is TWO THIRDS of ISRAEL the ONLY portion of ALL the people in ALL the LAND who are going to be affected?
Absolutely NOT! So therefore, the ONE THIRD that is brought through the fire is NOT referring to JUST ISRAEL, but rather it is speaking of one third of ALL the people in ALL the LAND.
34. The PROPHECY for ISRAEL clearly says, “Seventy weeks are DETERMINED upon your people (Daniel’s people--Israel) and upon your Holy City (Jerusalem).” Daniel 9:24. There is NO MENTION of the Church.
is no question or argument that the seventy weeks are determined upon
Israel, but this does NOT prove that the church will NOT be present
here on the Earth during the time of great tribulation.
this is an ERROR in the line of reasoning by those that teach the
pre-tribulation point of view, because CLEARLY ISRAEL did NOT need to
be REMOVED from the Earth in order for God to speak to a people who
did not seek him. You see, Israel is STILL here on the Earth while God
has directed his focus on the church in order to provoke Israel to
jealousy. In the SAME manner the CHURCH will be here ON the Earth
DURING the time of GREAT TRIBULATION. Also the clock is not totally stopped, because some of Israel have and are still coming to saving faith in Jesus.
I agree that there are different "DISPENSTATIONS" or different periods of time where God seems to change the way in which he is dealing with mankind in order to reconcile mankind back to himself. And yes, there is a gap between the 69th and the 70th week, but this does NOT prove that the church will NOT go through the time of great tribulation. Again God does not ABRUPTLY end one dispensation that CUTS people in HALF, so to speak. Even the giving of the LAW took forty days of Moses being on the mountain top just to receive the law. So then, if clear cut lines are to be drawn where there is NO OVERLAPPING what soever, then you will need to ADD many more DISPENSATIONS in the mix and then support them with scripture.
38. Yes, there are DISPENSATIONS in God’s dealing with mankind during the millenniums. (I mention this because many people OBJECT to the idea of God having separate programs, especially for the Church and Israel.) A “dispensation” is defined as God’s MANNER OF WORKING as He performs His ADMINISTRATION, overseeing various groups of people throughout the scripture. He has dealt with VARIOUS groups in DIFFERING means of ADMINISTRATION. We can SEE it by paying CAREFUL attention to what’s recorded in the whole Bible. Dispensations are CLEARLY mentioned in 1 Corinthians 9:17, Ephesians 1:10,Ephesians 3:2 and Colossians 1:25-26.
there is no dispute or argument against there being different
dispensations of God in working with mankind. But having different
dispensations does NOT prove that the church will NOT go through the
period of great tribulation.
totally DISAGREE. The Bible teaches that the time of great
tribulation is a 3 1/2 year period of time. And the WHOLE word of
Almighty God CLEARLY teaches that the CHURCH will go THROUGH the
ENTIRE period of GREAT TRIBULATION as will will PLAINLY see as you
CONTINUE this study in God's word.
I totally agree, IN the CHURCH there is neither Jew, nor Gentile, but
DURING the time of great tribulation there will be BOTH Jews and the
CHURCH, right along with Gentile nations, However, at ANY time ANY
Jew or Gentile may accept Jesus as their savior and BECOME part of
Yes, Revelation 7:1-17 makes a clear distinction between the sealing of the 144,000 servants of Israel and the CHURCH that is seen before the throne of God who have come OUT of GREAT TRIBULATION as described to us in Revelation 7:9-17, which says,
"AFTER this (or after the sealing of the 144,000) I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of ALL nations, and kindred, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Now IF this great multitude is NOT the CHURCH that came OUT of GREAT TRIBULATION who are now standing before the throne of God, the WHO are they?
Well those who teach the pre-tribulation point of view CLAIM that this great multitude from ALL nations, and people of the world are the "SO CALLED" tribulations saints and NOT he CHURCH. But IF this were TRUE, then WHY the NEED to SEAL JUST the 144,000 of the tribes of Israel?
The TRUTH of the matter is that BOTH the CHURCH and these 144,000 sealed of the twelve tribes of Israel have ALREADY gone THROUGH the time of GREAT TRIBULATION and the CHURCH is now before the throne of God.
This statement is very misleading and very DECEPTIVE! Yes it is absolutely TRUE that the WORD "CHURCH" is NOT found in the above mentioned chapters, but this does NOT prove that the church itself, as in, the body of BELIEVERS and FOLLOWERS of Jesus Christ are not found mentions in these chapters of Revelation 6 through Revelation 18.
The TRUTH of the matter is that the word "CHURCH" is NOT found in even ONE TIME in the gospels of Mark, Luke and John, and it is ONLY found three times in the gospel of Matthew, once in Matthew 16:18 and two other times in Matthew 18: 17, so does this mean that Mark, Luke, and John have NOTHING whatsoever to do with the CHURCH just because the WORD "CHURCH" is NOT found in them? How ABSOLUTELY ABSURD would that be to arrive at such a foolish conclusion as that. And yet this is exactly the SAME kind of LOGIC that is used by some who teach the FALSE doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture of the church.
more there WORD "CHURCH" is also NOT found in 2 Peter,
Jude, 2 John, and is ONLY found in Chapter 16 of the book of Romans,
and TWICE in the book of Hebrews, ONE time at the beginning and ONE
time at the END, very similar to the book of Revelation. Very
DECEIVING indeed to try and use this kind of argument in order to
make your own personal INTERPRETATION make sense. Can you not see my
dear brothers and sisters in the
that IF this kind of ILLOGICAL reasoning is used consistently, then
it would have to be conclude that MOST of the New Testament has
NOTHING what so ever to do with the CHURCH, because the WORD,
"CHURCH" is NOT found in most of the New Testament. Now I
am certain that those who teach the pre-tribulation are not
INTENTIONALLY deceiving the body of Christ. it is just that they have
NOT thought this line of reasoning through before using it.
most certainly she is, but as I have shown above the WORD "CHURCH"
does NOT appear in MOST of the New Testament, but yet the church is
still PRESENT and mentioned THROUGHOUT the entire New Testament. The
church is SEEN and RECOGNIZED by other words such as SAINTS,
SERVANTS, PRIESTS, BRETHREN, believers, followers, witnesses for
Jesus and so forth.
Again, my point has already been made that there is NO RELEVANCE to the fact that the WORD, "CHURCH" which is ONLY found in Revelation chapters 1 through 4 and ONCE as "CHURCHES" in the very LAST book of Revelation chapter 22 and verse 16.
But to make my point even further the WORD, CHURCH" is NOT found in Revelation chapter 5, which is one of the primary chapters that is USED to show that the CHURCH has ALREADY been RAPTURE up into heaven. How CONVENIENT is that to HAND PICK what verses they want to use or NOT use to show that the church is present of NOT present. Even is Revelation chapter 19 where, the CHURCH is definitely seen the WORD, church is NOT found. Again HOW CONVENIENT to be able to hand select when the church can be SEEN and when the church CANNOT be seen.
TRUTH of the matter is that the CHURCH, that is to say, BELIEVERS or
SERVANTS of our Lord Jesus Christ can be SEEN DURING the time of
GREAT TRIBULATION in the book of Revelation.
What about throughout most of the New Testament? Matthew chapter 24 for example. All the verses that teach us to WATCH and PRAY, to HOLD FAST, to ENDURE and not cast away our confidence. Why even the very first four chapters of the book of Revelation that specifically address the CHURCH are filled with WARNING of HOW the CHURCH is to LIVE in order to OBTAIN ETERNAL LIFE in the world to come. WARNING in the book of Revelation to NOT take the mark of the beast! The teachings of Jesus NOT to fear what man can do to us, but rather fear God. Verses teaching us to be FAITHFUL unto death.
Well in TRUTH the church is in PROPHECY, but yes it was not recognized by the religious leaders in the Old Testament. So I would have to agree that the church was in essence a mystery to many in the Old Testament, but in the New Testament we are told that the PROPHETS desired to look into what these prophecies meant.
perhaps virtually UNRECGNIZED, but none the less prophesied to be a
people who were not a people seeking God. It is true that Jesus was sent to his people the JEWS, but Jesus was sent to the Jews to preach the GOSPEL. The central focus of the gospels is the NEW COVENANT.
The fact that Israel or the Jewish people are not mention as much as the church is because God is changing the way that he is working with mankind. This proves nothing but the fact that ALL who are SAVED must be saved THROUGH Jesus Christ the standard of righteousness.
The fact remains that the JEWS of ISRAEL were and are STILL ON the Earth WHILE God is doing a NEW WORK called the CHURCH.
YES, Israel is in fact mentioned in Revelation 2:14 which says,
"But I have a few things against you, because you have there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumbling block before the children of ISRAEL, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication."
So it seems as if in last days there will be some in the church who teach that it is alright to eat things sacrifice to idols and commit fornication and therefore cast a stumbling block before them as it also does to Israel.
I am glad you mentioned that the CHURCH is spoken of in Revelation chapters 4 and 5 even though the WORD "CHURCH" is NOT present in these chapters. So then, WHY do you daogmatically teach that the rest of the chapters in the book of revelation has NOTHING to do with the church simple because the WORD "CHURCH" is not in these chapters. You cannot have it BOTH ways.
Now for ME personally I believe that the 24 elders are a representation of the 12 apostles and the 12 tribes of Israel totaling to 24 elders. Just like the 12 foundations represent the apostles and the 12 gates represent the 12 tribes of Israel in Revelation 21:9-14, which teaches us this TRUTH.
10. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and SHOWED me that GREAT CITY, (which I believe represents the BRIDE or who is now the WIFE of Jesus) the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
12. And had a wall great and high, and had TWELVE gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and NAMES written thereon, (or the NAME on these TWELVE gates) which are the NAMES of the TWELVE TRIBES of the children of ISRAEL:
COINCIDENCE? Perhaps, But since this verse CLEARLY describes the BRIDE or WIFE of Jesus as being comprised of BOTH the CHURCH and the twelve tribes of Israel, then for ME, I do not think it must of a stretch to INTERPRET the 24 ELDER as being comprised of the 12 apostles of the Lamb along with the 12 tribes of Israel.
TRUTH of the matter is that BOTH the CHURCH and ISRAEL are the ONLY
that stand for the ONE TRUE GOD in all the Earth, both NOW and DURING
the time of GREAT TRIBULATION. I will explain this is greater detail
later on in this study in God's word.
Perhaps not SPECIFICALLY as in PLAINLY STATING the CHURCH WILL GO THROUGH the time of GREAT TRIBULATION, but Jesus teaches us in Matthew charter 24 that the ELECT will have much TRIBULATION. And TRIBULATION and persecution has always been appointed to the CHURCH.
again on the same line of reasoning there are NO verses that
SPECIFICALLY STATE the the CHURCH will NOT go through the time of
GREAT TRIBULATION. So in reality this argument or so called REASON is
Here is what Jeremiah 30:7 actually says,
"Alas! for THAT DAY is GREAT (speaking of that GREAT and NOTABLE DAY of the Lord wherein the WRATH of Almighty God is poured out), so that NONE is like it: IT (speaking of the DAY of the Lord, or the GREAT DAY of God as described to us in Revelation 16:14, IT, the DAY of God's WRATH) is even the TIME of Jacob's TROUBLE; but he shall be SAVED out of it."
This great day that is called the TIME of Jacob's TROUBLE is NOT to be CONFUSED with the 3 1/2 years of tribulation that Jesus describes in Matthew chapter 24:15-22 which teaches us that beginning with the time of the abomination of desolation spoken by the prophet Daniel there with be GREAT TRIBULATION such as there has never been before since men were on the Earth to this same time and shall never be again.
Now I can see how the TIME of Jacob's TROUBLE can be confused with the time of GREAT TRIBULATION because of the phase, "such as was NOT since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." when it is compared to phrase in Jeremiah 30:7 which says, "so that NONE is like it."
Perhaps if I explain the TIMELINE you will be able to see that while both verses are in essence speaking of the same time in HISTORY they are NOT speaking of the EXACT SAME EVENTS that occur in the SAME time in HISTORY. Although it is not actually technically HISTORY yet. This TIME is still yet in the future at the writing of this study.
First comes the ABOMINATION of DESOLATION which begins the period of GREAT TRIBULATION for BOTH the CHURCH and ISRAEL. This period of GREAT TRIBULATION in which BOTH the CHURCH and ISRAEL will be PRESENT ON the Earth while it is taking place, this period of time will last for 3 1/2 years. Then IMMEDIATELY AFTER THIS PARTICULAR TIME of GREAT TRIBULATION there will be SIGNS in the SUN and in the MOON and in the STARS, and the POWERS of heaven shall be SHAKEN, and THEN shall we all see the SIGN of the Son of man COMING again to the Earth, which is what the Bible calls the SECOND coming. It is AT this TIME that the RAPTURE of the CHURCH occurs where the DEAD in Christ rise from the dead, which is called the FIRST resurrection, and then we who have REMAINED ALIVE and have SURVIVED this 3 1/2 years of GREAT TRIBULATION shall be CAUGHT UP of RAPTURE UP in the AIR TOGETHER with the now RESURRECTED dead in Christ, and then we will all be GATHERED TOGETHER by the angels of Jesus from all over the world and taken to a place called in the Hebrew tongue ARMAGEDDON to MEET our Lord and savior Jesus the Christ.
However, the Jews or Israel as well as SOME of those in all the nations of the world who CALL upon the NAME of the Lord to be SAVED, will be RESCUED or SAVED in the sense that they will NOT be KILLED, but they will NOT be SAVED in the sense that the will RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE at this point in time. BUT RATHER these that CALL upon the Lord when they SEE him coming will go into the 1000 year reign of Jesus to be TAUGHT of the Lord.
It is THIS period of TIME that IMMEDIATELY follows the RAPTURE of the CHURCH at the TIME of the SECOND coming of Jesus that is called of known as the TIME of JACOB'S trouble, because the CHURCH will have just been RAPTURE. You see the TIME of JACOB'S trouble is the WRATH of Almighty God and NOT the time of GREAT TRIBULATION. I will PROVE WITHOUT a DOUBT that the TIME of GREAT TRIBULATION is NOT the WRATH of Almighty God a little later on in this study of God's word. But for now let us continue to look at the next four reasons in this section of the church NOT being confused with Israel.
54. The Church has NO PART in the first 69 weeks of Daniel’s prophecy, and it will have NO PART in the final 70th week either!
the time of great tribulation is in fact part of the 70th week, the
CHURCH going THROUGH the great tribulation doe NOT mean that they are
TAKING PART of the 70th week. Noah was present on the Earth and went
THROUGH the flood, but they did NOT TAKE PART in the SAME way as the
rest of the world. The same is true of Lot. The same is true of the
plagues in Egypt. So why is it so hard to see that the it may be the
same during the time of GREAT TRIBULATION?
The only REMNANT that we are told about in the book of Revelation other than the remnant of the nations that are slain is the remnant of those of that I see as REPENTING when they see the WRATH of God coming upon the world. Please read Revelation 11:13 which says,
"And the SAME HOUR was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the REMNANT were frightened, and GAVE GLORY to the God of heaven."
SAME HOUR I believe refers to the WRATH of God that occurs
immediately AFTER the RAPTURE of the CHURCH. I believe that this
REMNANT here is speaking NOT ONLY of a REMNANT of ISRAEL, but also a
REMNANT of those in all nations of the Earth that REPENT and give
glory to God by CALLING on his name.
is those who teach this FALSE doctrine of a pre-tribulation rapture
who CONFUSE terms like the "ELECT", because CLEARLY the
WHOLE word of God uses this term ELECT to describe the CHURCH, but I
personally believe this term can ALSO refer to ISRAEL, because the
word "ELECT" simply means CHOSEN. And BOTH Israel and the
church have been CHOSEN by God.
Here is Acts 15:14-17 which says,
The phrase "TAKE OUT of them a people for his name" could be speaking of the rapture of the church, OR it could be referring to the Gentiles who CALL upon the Lord AFTER the rapture of the church has taken place.
Notice that Jesus himself will REBUILD the TEMPLE or tabernacle of David so that the RESIDUE of MEN and ALL the GENTILES might SEEK after the Lord.
So yes, definitely God will STILL be working with mankind AFTER the RAPTURE of the CHURCH has taken place.
Here is Romans 11:25-27, which says,
"For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
So then, WHEN or at WHAT TIME will the FULNESS of the GENTILES be come in. In other words, WHEN is the AGE, TIME or DISPENSATION of the Gentiles going to be FULFILLED?
For the ANSWER to this question please read Luke 21:24-28, which CLEARLY teaches us that the TIME of the Gentiles will be FULFILLED at the SECOND coming of Jesus immediately AFTER we see the SIGNS in the SUN and in the MOON, and in the STARS, and the POWERS of heaven SHAKEN.
So then, the FULNESS of the Gentiles is not come in UNTIL the SECOND COMING of Jesus, WHEN there shall be SIGNS in the SUN and in the MOON, and in the STARS. We will take a closer look a little later on in this study to see just EXACTLY when the SIGNS shall appear in relation to the time of great tribulation and the WRATH of Almighty God, which will CLEARLY and PLAINLY show anyone seeking the TRUTH of God's word that the time of GREAT TRIBULATION is NOT the SAME event as the WRATH of God. But for now let us continue with reasons 58-62 0f the 250 reasons for the pre-tribulation rapture.
PARTIAL AND DUAL FULFILLMENT'S IN PROPHECY
agree with dual fulfillment of some prophecies.
agree with what is stated above in this reason number 62, but I do
NOT agree with the last paragraph of this reason below.
The REMAINDER of Daniel’s prophecy, in verse Daniel 9:27, JUMPS to THE END (after the parenthetical AGE of THE CHURCH is inserted). After the Church is COMPLETE, and TAKEN to HEAVEN in the Pre-Trib Rapture, the LAST SEVEN YEARS of Israel’s prophecy will be fulfilled during the tribulation. (References: Sir Robert Anderson--“The Coming Prince.” Chuck Missler’s “The Precision of Prophecy--Daniel’s 70 Weeks” http://www.khouse.org/articles/2004/552/
I agree that PART of the 70th week in not fulfilled until the future when Jesus returns to execute the WRATH of Almighty God. I also believe that it will NOT be FULLY fulfilled until the END of the 1000 year reign of Jesus when FIRE comes down from heaven from Almighty God. More on this later.
DAYS AS USUAL--UNTIL THE CHURCH DISAPPEARS IN THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE
Yes, I agree, the judgments of the last days during the time of great tribulation will come upon people who will NOT be aware that the things happening around them were prophesied in the Bible to take place. Some will perhaps think that things are just getting worse and may wonder why, but not even think to call upon God. And most certainly the WRATH of God will come suddenly and catch many unaware. And I agree the church is NOT appointed to the WRATH of God and we will be taken to safety to escape the WRATH of God, but we will NOT be taken back to heaven for 7 years to escape the time of great tribulation. I do not see how any of these so called reasons proves a pre-tribulation rapture.
I agree, but how does the wickedness of the world growing worse and
worse prove a pre-tribulation rapture?
absolutely and totally agree that the CHURCH, as in referring to the
FAITHFUL believers, will NOT suffer the WRATH
of Almighty God. But the Bible teaches us that JUDGMENT must BEGIN at
the HOUSE of God. Please read 1Peter 4:12-19 that is speaking about
the SECOND coming of Jesus. But just because the CHURCH is NOT
appointed to the WRATH
of God does NOT
mean that the CHURCH will NOT go THROUGH the time of GREAT
TRIBULATION, because the time of great tribulation is NOT the WRATH of God. Absolute PROOF of this is to come, so keep reading.
I believe one of the reasons WHY those that teach the doctrine of a pre-tribulation rapture have made so many errors in their INTERPRETATION of certain passages of scripture is that they have failed to see that there is a DIFFERENCE between the time of GREAT TRIBULATION and the WRATH of God. As I said earlier that I would PROVE without a doubt to you, the reader, who is seeking the TRUTH, that the TIME of GREAT TRIBULATION is NOT the WRATH of God. In other words, the GREAT TRIBULATION and the WRATH of God are TWO completely SEPARATE and DIFFERENT EVENTS and here is the PROOF!
Please read Acts 2:20, which teaches us that BEFORE the DAY of the Lord COMES, or BEFORE the WRATH of God is poured out there will be SIGNS that will in NO WAY go UNNOTICED.
The SUN shall be turned into darkness, and the MOON into blood, BEFORE that GREAT and NOTABLE DAY of the Lord COME:"
Most every one knows that the GREAT and NOTABLE DAY of the Lord is referring to the WRATH of Almighty God, to this TRUTH there should be NO DOUBT! Please notice the SIGNS in the SUN and the MOON that will OCCUR of take place BEFORE the WRATH of God is poured out.
Now please read Matthew 24:29-31 which teaches us that these very SAME SIGNS occur of take place IMMEDIATELY AFTER the time of GREAT TRIBULATION!
30. And THEN shall appear the SIGN of the Son of man in heaven: and THEN shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall SEE the Son of man COMING in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a TRUMPET, and they shall GATHER TOGETHER his ELECT (or gather together his CHOSEN ones, his CHURCH) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
Can you not see my dear brothers and sisters in the Lord, that these SIGNS in the SUN and in the MOON and in the STARS appear BETWEEN the time of the GREAT TRIBULATION and the WRATH of God. THEREFORE it is IMPOSSIBLE for these TWO DIFFERENT events that are SEPARATED by these SIGNS and the SECOND coming of Jesus to be the SAME event as the doctrine of the pre-tribulation point of view FALSELY teaches.
agree, but I do not see how this proves a pre-tribulation
rapture. It is true that Jesus saves us from the WRATH to come, but the WRATH of God is NOT the time of great tribulation!
Again, there is some CONFUSION as to WHOM the two thirds spoken of in Zechariah chapter 13 is referring. Surely it is understood by all believer that MORE people will perish during the WRATH of God than JUST the Jews. The two thirds of the people that perish to me is speaking of the WICKED who refuse to REPENT, which will I believe be mostly Gentiles, but certainly their will be some Jews, or Israel that will perish for one reason or another. My point is that those who CALL upon the Lord when they SEE him coming to execute the WRATH of God will be KEPT ALIVE and will NOT perish, but will go into the millennium in their MORTAL bodies.
Also it should be noted that those who are martyred for Jesus DURING the time of GREAT TRIBULATION do NOT PERISH, they are RESURRECTED to ETERNAL LIFE.
this entire passage of scripture is speaking of the ONE and ONLY SECOND COMING
of Jesus AT which time the RAPTURE of the CHURCH takes place and the
SAME DAY that the CHURCH is taken up in the AIR to a place of safety,
THEN the WRATH of God is poured out. A POST tribulation RAPTURE of
the CHURCH coupled with Jesus executing the WRATH of God the SAME DAY
parallels PERFECTLY with the account of Lot being brought to safety
and the SAME DAY that Lot was taken out it rained down FIRE and
brimstone just like it will be at the SECOND coming of Jesus. In other words, there was NOT a 7 year period after Lot was brought to safety before the WRATH and anger of God was poured out on Sodom and Gomorrah. Lot was brought OUT to a place of SAFETY and then the SAME DAY the FIRE of JUDGMENT fell.
you not see my dear brothers and sisters in the Lord, that this
comparison Lot and the return of our Lord, which was by the way given
to us by Jesus himself, fits a POST tribulation rapture of the church
where the SAME DAY that the church is taken up to a place of safety
then immediately FIRE rained down to destroy the wicked, as opposed
to taking the church to heaven to be safe and then waiting 7 years to
pour out the WRATH of God. Plainly this passage of scripture teaches
us that the SAME DAY the church is taken to safety, then immediately
the WRATH of God is poured out upon the wicked, because verse 30 says EVEN THUS or in the SAME way so shall it BE it the day WHEN the Son of man is REVEALED, which is speaking of the ONE and ONLY SECOND coming of Jesus
69. The city of Lot was exceedingly wicked. Righteous Lot was VEXED by what occurred around him, which is described in Genesis 19:1-38 as blatant, “in your face,” homosexuality.2 Peter 2:6-9 says that the Lord KNOWS HOW to DELIVER the RIGHTEOUS, and RESERVE THE UNRIGHTEOUS for His day of judgment. The world, prior to the Pre-Trib Rapture, will also show the increase of homosexuality, and like Sodom, will be sorely judged. The true Church, like righteous Lot, will be REMOVED BEFORE the judgment hits (Pre-Trib).
Yes I agree that all manner of sin will be judged and those who practice homosexuality will most certainly be judged as well. However, the increase in homosexuality or any other sin does not prove a pre-tribulation rapture of the church.
And yes, truly Almighty God does know how to DELIVER the RIGHTEOUS right before he pours out his WRATH upon the wicked and DISOBEDIENT to the GOSPEL. But again this does NOT prove a pre-tribulation rapture.
A PRE WRATH rapture YES, but NOT a PRE TRIBULATION rapture!
me this idea of being FORCEFULLY remove far better fits a POST
tribulation rapture, because there will be many believers that will
be help CAPTIVE in prisons awaiting death DURING the time of GREAT
TRIBULATION as we are told in Psalms 79:11, but what about BEFORE the
time of great tribulation. Think about it, WHY would FORCE need to be
used BEFORE the church is heavily persecuted as never before since
the beginning of the world. To me either way the idea of FORCE does not prove a pre or
post tribulation rapture, but there WILL be a WAR fought against God at the END of the time of GREAT TRIBULATION.
Again the ERROR of the pre-tribulation rapture is largely due to those who have NOT yet discerned CORRECTLY that the time of GREAT TRIBULATION or any form of tribulation is the WRATH of God which will be poured out AT the SECOND coming of Jesus.
And most CERTAINLY the CHURCH will be taken out BEFORE the WRATH of God is poured out, but NOT BEFORE the time of GREAT TRIBULATION.
Again the SAME as above. The DAY of the Lord where Jesus is COMING as a THIEF in the night ALWAYS refers the the SECOND coming of Jesus to pour out the WRATH of God.
RIGHT BEFORE Jesus executes the WRATH of God he gives a shout and
call for his CHURCH up to MEET him in the AIR. You see, Jesus sends his angels to GATHER the faithful TOGETHER to MEET Jesus in the AIR over this place called ARMAGEDDON to execute the WRATH of Almighty God upon THEM, speaking of the disobedient to the GOSPEL.
agree. But I would also like to point out that when they says "PEACE and SAFETY" it may be a crying out for peace and safety after so much war, violence and hatred that will be present during the time of great tribulation.
NO I do NOT believe in the FALSE pre-tribulation rapture of the church, because CLEARLY the Bible does NOT teach a pre-tribulation rapture.
Nor does John chapter 14 teach that the church will be taken to heaven for 7 years as it's place of safety to ESCAPE the WRATH of God. I will explain what I mean by this a little later in this study in God's word. But for now let us continue with reasons 75-79 of the 250 reasons for the pre-tribulation rapture.
CHURCH’S “COMFORT” IN THE RAPTURE MESSAGE
The CORRECT interpretation of scripture is NOT based on the CONTEXT of a FALSELY ASSUMED pre-tribulation rapture as being the ONLY TRUE way for the church to be COMFORTED, but RATHER correct INTERPRETATION of a verse of scripture is based upon the CONTEXT of the passage of scripture that the verse in question is found.
Therefore the CONTEXT of 1 Thessalonians 4:18, which teaches us to COMFORT one another with these words, is 1 Thessalonians 4:13 all the way through to 1 Thessalonians chapter 5 and verse 11, which reads as follows.
"But I would not have you to be IGNORANT, brethren, CONCERNING them which are asleep (speaking of those brothers and sister in the Lord who have DIED), that you SORROW NOT, even as others which have no hope.(in other words, be COMFORTED with THESE WORDS or COMFORT one another with THESE WORDS that I am about to tell you)
14. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, EVEN SO them also which sleep in Jesus will God BRING WITH him.(In other words, the DEAD IN Christ will God BRING WITH him when he COMES)
15. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the COMING of the Lord (speaking of the SECOND COMING of Jesus when he comes as a THIEF in the night to execute the WRATH of Almighty God, then those of us who have REMAINED alive and have survived) shall not prevent them which are asleep (or shall not be changed and given eternal life and CAUGHT UP to be with Jesus BEFORE the DEAD in Christ. The word "PREVENT" here simply means GO BEFORE. Therefore BE COMFORTED with THESE WORDS).
16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the DEAD in Christ shall rise FIRST: (In other words, the SPIRITS of the DEAD SAINTS in Christ, which will COME WITH Jesus when he returns shall be REUNITED with their bodies that are raised from the dead)
17. THEN we which are alive and remain (or then we who have REMAINED ALIVE and have SURVIVED) shall be CAUGHT UP (or RAPTURE) TOGETHER WITH them in the clouds, to MEET the Lord in the AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18. WHEREFORE (or for this REASON that the DEAD in Christ shall be RAISED and be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER right along WITH US. In other words, my dear brothers and sisters in the Lord, be NOT IGNORANT of this TRUTH that those brothers and sisters who have DIED IN the Lord shall NOT be LEFT BEHIND, but rather the DEAD in Christ will rise FIRST and then we which have REMAINED ALIVE and have SURVIVED the time of GREAT TRIBULATION shall ALL be CHANGED TOGETHER and shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER to meet our Lord in the air to be safe with him while the WRATH of Almighty God is being poured out upon the wicked. Wherefore of for this REASON) COMFORT one another with THESE WORDS.
Keep reading right on into the next chapter 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11, because the SAME subject is STILL being discussed!
1. BUT of the times and the seasons (speaking of the TIMES and SEASONS of this EVENT called come to be called the RAPTURE of the CHURCH, which will take place AT the SECOND COMING of Jesus), brethren, you have no need that I write unto you.(WHY? Why does Paul have NO NEED to write unto us about the TIMES and the SEASONS of the SECOND coming of Jesus?)
4. But YOU, brethren, are NOT in darkness, that THAT DAY (speaking of the DAY of the Lord wherein Jesus COMES as a THIEF in the night to execute the WRATH of Almighty God, that THAT DAY) should over take YOU as a THIEF. (WHY?, Because)
5. YOU are all the children of light, and the children of the day: WE are NOT of the night, NOR of darkness.
10. Who died for us, that, WHETHER we wake or sleep, (or no matter whether we REMAIN ALIVE of whether we DIE in Christ) we should LIVE together with him.(or we are NOT ignorant of the TRUTH that the DEAD in Christ shall be RESURRECTED when Jesus returns and we ALL shall LIVE together with him, so do NOT be CONCERNED about your brothers and sisters who have DIED in the Lord any more)
11. WHEREFORE (or for this REASON that the DEAD in Christ shall rise again) COMFORT yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also you do (or even also as I know you will do, or even also as you do in other areas)."
Can you not see my dear brothers and sisters in the Lord that the SUBJECT of this ENTIRE passage of scripture is the COMFORTING of those who were CONCERNED about those who have DIED in the Lord BEFORE Jesus returned. You have to remember that the were some among the early church who were teaching that there was NO resurrection and other that that that the resurrection had already PAST. Paul was merely teaching them that there IS going to be a RESURRECTION and that the DEAD in Christ will rise FIRST, BEFORE we all go up TOGETHER to meet our Lord in the air.
There is NOTHING and I mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in this ENTIRE passage of scripture that even REMOTELY HINTS at a PRE-tribulation rapture of the church in order to ESCAPE the time of GREAT TRIBULATION.
The TRUTH of the matter is that this passage of scripture teaches us about the SECOND coming of Jesus when he shall come as a THIEF in the night to execute the WRATH of God, TO which WE, the FAITHFUL believers, who are WATCHING and keep SIN out of our lives, are NOT appointed. Again we are NOT appointed to the WRATH of God. However the time of GREAT TRIBULATION ia NOT the WRATH of God, which I have ALREADY CLEARLY and PLAINLY shown WITHOUT a DOUBT.
76. We, the true Church are told to LOOK FOR the “glorious appearing of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” Titus 2:13. IF other prophetic events MUST happen BEFORE Jesus can appear, that verse is foolish and doesn’t make sense.
is what the CONTEXT of Titus 2:13 actually says and teaches. Please
read the entire chapter 2 of Titus which teaches us that we are not
ONLY LOOKING for our BLESSED HOPE, but ALSO for the GLORIOUS
APPEARING of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, which are TWO different things that occur at the SECOND coming of Jesus.
This whole passage of scripture is teaching us to LIVE righteously and godly in this present world while we are LOOKING to OBTAIN our BLESSED HOPE which IS the OBTAINING of ETERNAL LIFE when Jesus returns. And IF you be DEAD in Christ, then your BLESSED HOPE would be to take part in the FIRST RESURRECTION in which the SECOND DEATH has NO power over. In other words, the blessed HOPE of the DEAD IN Christ is the FIRST resurrection and the OBTAINING of ETERNAL LIFE.
But this is not ALL we are LOOKING for, because the scriptures says AND the GLORIOUS APPEARING of not only our great GOD, Almighty God, the Father, but also God's SON, our savior Jesus Christ.
HOWEVER, there is NOTHING in this passage of scripture that again even remotely hints at a rapture that occurs BEFORE the time of great tribulation in order to ESCAPE tribulation and persecution.
As far as LOOKING FOR the so called IMMINENT return of Jesus, IF there were NO SIGNS to give us at least a HINT that that day is NEAR, then HOW can you LOOK FOR the return of Jesus. Certainly you can EXPECT his coming to occur. You can certainly ANTICIPATE his coming, BUT you can NOT actually LOOK FOR and event that is COMING WITHOUT some kind of SIGNS that will alert you to the fact that his coming is NEAR.
77. We are to PURIFY OURSELVES in view of Jesus’ soon appearing (1 John 3:2-3). IF His coming is NOT IMMINENT, then that passage is meaningless, too. (People can think, “If He’s NOT going to appear soon, then why bother with being pure?--let’s do what we want for a while.”) Our BLESSED HOPE in the PRE-TRIB RAPTURE, and it’s IMMINENCE, keeps us on our toes, spiritually.
Here is what 1 John 3:2-3 actually says,
Now the way I personally interpret the verses that teach that Jesus is coming QUICKLY is in the light of the verses that PLAINLY teach that the coming of Jesus will be like LIGHTNING that flashes out of the east and unto the west, or more precisely our CHANGE will be like lightning in a moment and in a twinkling of an eye. In other words, AT his coming our change will take place so QUICK that there will NOT be enough time to REPENT if one is in SIN, THEREFORE we are WARNED to WATCH for the SIGNS of his COMING so that when we SEE that day APPROACHING we will exhort one another SO MUCH THE MORE.
As far as those that jump at any excuse to SIN and do what they want just shows me that they do NOT have a relationship with the Lord like they should have, which is having the desire to turn and flee from sin.
78. The Church is told to LOOK ONLY for “the coming of Christ” in the Rapture (often called “His appearing”): IF we must LOOK for other prophecies FIRST, that DOESN’T make sense either. Titus 2:13
Again, we can EXPECT his coming. And we can ANTICIPATE his coming. And we can look FORWARD to his coming. But to ME, there is know way to ACTUALLY LOOK for his coming WITHOUT looking for the SIGNS of his coming that will ALERT us that his coming is NEAR. Jesus said, when you SEE these THINGS or these SIGNS in the SUN and in the MOON and in the STARS, then LOOK UP BECAUSE your REDEMPTION DRAWS NEAR or is VERY CLOSE AT HAND. Then Jesus WARNS us to WATCH and PRAY that we may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY to ESCAPE all the things that are about to come upon the world, which is the WRATH of Almighty God and NOT the time of GREAT TRIBULATION. Please read Luke 21:25-36, which says,
27. And THEN shall they SEE the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. (in other words, FIRST we will SEE the SIGNS of his coming and then THEY, and NOT NECESSARILY US will SEE the COMING of Jesus. Personally I myself believe that WE will NOT ACTUALLY SEE Jesus coming in the CLOUDS, until we are FIRST CHANGED and GIVEN ETERNAL LIFE)
28. And when these THINGS (or when these SIGNS in the SUN and in the MOON and in the STARS) begin to come to pass, then LOOK UP, and lift up your heads (or lift up your heads that are hanging low because some of you are beginning to THINK NOT that I was going to come and rescue you); for your redemption DRAWS NEAR. (but now that you have SEEN these SIGNS which I told you would PRECEDE my COMING, you NOW KNOW the DAY and the HOUR of my COMING is NIGH AT HAND, BECAUSE you have SEEN the SIGNS)
29. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
34. And TAKE HEED to yourselves, lest at any time YOUR hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so THAT DAY (speaking of THAT DAY when I, Jesus come as a THIEF in the night to execute the WRATH of Almighty God upon the world, that THAT DAY) come upon YOU unawares.
35. For as a snare shall IT (speaking of the DAY of the Lord coming as a THIEF in the night to execute the WRATH of Almighty God, for IT shall) come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36. WATCH YOU THEREFORE, and PRAY ALWAYS, that YOU may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass (speaking of the DAY of the Lord where Jesus comes as a THIEF in the night to execute the WRATH of God upon the UNGODLY and DISOBEDIENT CHILDREN of God. therefore WATCH ad PRAY ALWAYS that you be ACCOUNTED WORTHY to ESCAPE the WRATH of God to which the FAITHFUL believers are NOT APPOINTED), and to stand before the Son of man."
For a deeper understanding of Jesus coming as a THIEF in the night please go to my YouTube channel and watch my teaching video "JESUS IS COMING AS A THIEF IN THE NIGHT"
It is ONLY because of the MISCONCEPTIONS and WRONG ASSUMPTIONS of a PRE-tribulation rapture that there arises these SO CALLED tribulation SAINTS, who SUPPOSEDLY are NOT the CHURCH.
The TRUTH of the matter is that Almighty God is NOT going to take the CHURCH out of the Earth, UNTIL the gospel is preached unto all the world and the FULNESS of the GENTILES has come to FULL where NONE of the WICKED, NO NOT ONE, will TURN from there wickedness and REPENT of there sins and accept Jesus as the Lord and savior in order to receive ETERNAL LIFE when he RETURNS at his SECOND coming.
Then WHEN this time has arrived, THEN and ONLY THEN will Jesus come forth out of his chamber to receive his church, his bride to himself and then execute the WRATH of God upon all those who do NOT call upon his name AT his coming when they SEE him coming in clouds of great glory.
NATURE OF THE CHURCH AND THE PROMISED RAPTURE
No, in reality only those who do not understand the TRUTH of the WHOLE word of God are the only ones who are CONFUSED about the SECOND coming of Jesus that does NOT need to be DIVIDED into TWO SEPARATE and DISTINCT comings as the ONLY WAY to harmonize the APPARENT contradictions in God;s word. Every verse of scripture harmonize perfectly with the POST tribulation TRUTH, if one RIGHTY DIVIDES the word of TRUTH, rather than WRONGLY DIVIDING the ONE and ONLY SECOND coming into TWO comings.
this FALSE CONCLUSION is drawn from NOT RIGHTLY DIVIDING the word of
TRUTH. The book of Revelation is NOT meant to be read or more specifically is not to be
understood in a chronological order.
In other words, in order to make sense of WHY the WRATH of God appears in all these places, then you must understand that in the book of Revelation we are told a sequence of events that take place during the time of great tribulation, and then we are shown the rapture of the church, and then we are shown the WRATH of God. And THEN it starts all over again with this SAME sequence. And THEN it starts all over yet a third time showing us this SAME sequence. This is done SEVEN times. Now Almighty God is NOT going to pour our his WRATH 7 DIFFERENT times.
In other words, there are SEVEN different places in the book of Revelation where we are shown SEVEN types, figures, or examples of the rapture of the church, but there is NOT going to be 7 DIFFERENT raptures of the CHURCH. In other words, there is ONLY going to be ONE period of GREAT TRIBULATION, followed by ONE rapture of the CHURCH, followed by ONE SECOND coming of Jesus executing ONE WRATH of God.
explain the TRUTH of all this in my study entitled "The WRATH of
God VERSE the GREAT TRIBULATION" on my website at
AMatterOfTruth.com if you would like a deeper understanding on this
subject. But for now let us continue with the next reason for a
Again, the misunderstanding comes from CONFUSING the time of GREAT TRIBULATION to be ONE and the SAME period of time as the WRATH of God, which I have ALREADY clearly and plainly shown without a doubt that these are TWO SEPARATE and DIFFERENT events that occur basically one right after the other, but are SEPARATED by SIGNS in the SUN, and in the MOON and in the STARS and the SECOND coming of Jesus to RAPTURE his CHURCH right BEFORE he pours out the WRATH of God.
As far as Revelation 3:10 and Luke 21:36, BOTH of these verses are speaking of the ESCAPING the WRATH of God and NOT the escaping of the time of GREAT TRIBULATION.
We have ALREADY taken a look at Luke 21:36 in it's CONTEXT and clearly seen that it is referring to the WRATH of God. So then, now let us take a CLOSER look at Revelation 3:10, which in TRUTH teaches us about the HOUR in which Jesus will RETURN at his SECOND coming to execute the WRATH of Almighty God.
"BECAUSE you HAVE KEPT the word of my patience, I ALSO will keep you from the HOUR of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. (In other words, this HOUR of temptation is NOT appoint to you, BECAUSE you have been FAITHFUL and HAVE KEPT the word of my patience.)
12. Him that OVERCOMES will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name."
To ME it is CLEAR that this HOUR of temptation is speaking of the WRATH of God and NOT the time of GREAT TRIBULATION. Simply looking at the CONTEXT and observing that the CHURCH is going through great trials and has thus far KEPT the word of God with patience waiting for the coming of Jesus. But for those who do not readily see this, let us take a close look at the phrase "BEHOLD, I COME QUICKLY" and compare it with other places we see this same type of wording.
Let us begin with what Jesus said to the first church, the church of Ephesus in Revelation 2:5 where Jesus praise the church at first, but then WARNS them that he does have somewhat against them and IF they do NOT REPENT, then he will COME QUICKLY and REMOVE there candlestick.
"Remember therefore from whence you are FALLEN, and REPENT, and do the first works; OR ELSE I will come unto thee QUICKLY, and will REMOVE your candlestick out of his place, EXCEPT you REPENT."
Then in closing his message to this church at Ephesus in verse 7 Jesus WARNS all the CHURCHES that they MUST OVERCOME in order to obtain ETERNAL LIFE.
Then to the church of Smyrna and to all the other churches as well Jesus gives us the same warning to OVERCOME.
"Fear NONE of those things which thou shall SUFFER: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that you may be tried; and you shall have TRIBULATION ten days: be you FAITHFUL UNTO DEATH, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Then we read in Revelation 2: the WARNING that Jesus gave to the third church as well as all the other churches to REPENT OR ELSE he would COME QUICKLY and FIGHT THEM with the SWORD of his mouth.
"REPENT; OR ELSE I will come unto you QUICKLY, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
17. He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says unto the CHURCHES; To him that OVERCOMES will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knows saving he that receives it."
So again, to ME I personally do NOT see these words, COME QUIKLY as meaning a SOON return of our Lord that he could come at any moment without having any SIGNS fulfilled. But RATHER I see these words as meaning when Jesus comes again his COMING will be QUICK like LIGHTENING or in a TWINKLING of an eye. In others words, SO QUICKLY that there will NOT be any TIME to REPENT if one has SIN in their life. And I believe this next passage of scripture you read will CLEARLY show you this TRUTH. Please read Revelation 3:1-6 where Jesus WARNS the CHURCHES that IF they do NOT WATCH, then he WILL COME upon those in the church who are NOT WATCHING as a THIEF in the night and they will NOT KNOW when he will come upon them, BECAUSE they are NOT WATCHING.
3. Remember therefore how you have received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. IF therefore you shall NOT WATCH, I will come on YOU as a THIEF, and YOU shall NOT KNOW what hour I will come upon YOU.
4. Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have NOT defiled their garments; and THEY (speaking of ONLY Those FAITHFUL believers who do NOT have SIN in their life and whose WORKS have been found to be PERFECT before God, ONLY THEY) shall walk with me in white: for they are WORTHY.
Now let us take a look at Revelation 16:15,16 which teaches us WHEN Jesus is COMING QIUCKLY as a THIEF in the night upon those who have SIN in the lives. When ever you read about KEEPING your garment clean or spotless this means KEEP SIN out of you life.
"Behold, I COME as a THIEF. Blessed is he that WATCHES, and KEEPS his garments (or KEEPS SIN out of their life), lest he walk naked, and THEY (speaking of the ANGELS that Jesus sends to GATHER TOGETHER his CHURCH, lest or for fear that THEY) see his shame.
Can you not see my dear brothers and sisters in the Lord, that when Jesus COMES QUICKLY as in a TWINKLING of and eye to RAPTURE is CHURCH Jesus is ALSO coming as a THEIF to execute the WRATH of Almighty God upon the ungodly AND the DISOBEDIENT CHILDREN of God who are NOT WATCHING and KEEP themselves PURE EVEN as Jesus is pure.
So then, Revelation 3:10 is a PROMISE from our Lord, that IF we WATCH and KEEP his WORD with patience, THEN he will NOT come upon US as a THIEF to execute the WRATH of God upon US because we will be found WORTHY to ESCAPE all those things that are COMING upon the ungodly and disobedient children of God.
While we are here I want you to notice the word "HOUR" in the phrase "I will DELIVER you from that HOUR of temptation or trial that shall come upon all the world"
Please read Revelation 18:4-20, but for now I will quote the beginning and the ending.
"...COME OUT of her, my people, that YOU be NOT partakers of her sins, and that YOU receive NOT of her plagues...For in one HOUR so great riches is come to nothing...And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! For in one HOUR is she made desolate.
To ME there is NO doubt that this passage of scripture is speaking of the WRATH of Almighty God being pour out on the world and GOD'S PEOPLE are called to COME OUT of the world in order NOT to receive of HER PLAGUES, the plagues of the WRATH of God to which WE, the FAITHFUL CHURCH are NOT APPOINTED to receive.
Thessalonians 1:6-7 we
see that God will REPAY TRIBULATION upon the ones who have TROUBLED
the Church. WHILE that RECOMPENSE occurs, the Church will BE AT REST.
The Church will receive a Pre-Tribulation rapture!
As I have said many times, ANY verse when taken OUT of CONTEXT may SEEM to say something that it is not TRULY saying. Therefore let us read the CONTEXT of verses 6 and 7 by reading 1 Thessalonians 1:4-11 which CLEARLY teaches us that our REST comes WHEN Jesus comes again at his SECOND coming and NOT at a misunderstood PRE-tribulation rapture. When these verse are KEPT in their CONTEXT it is PLAINLY seen the WHEN we REST is WHEN Jesus comes WITH his MIGHTY ANGEL in a FLAMING FIRE taking VENGEANCE upon those who troubled and persecuted the CHURCH during the time of GREAT TRIBULATION.
CLEARLY the WHEN here is speaking of the SECOND coming of Jesus and NOT a SO CALLED PRE-tribulation rapture, BECAUSE the WHEN here is WHEN Jesus come WITH his MIGHTY ANGELS to execute in FLAMING FIRE the WRATH of Almighty God.
it is definitely TRUE that the CHURCH as in those who are WATCHING
and KEEPING SIN OUT of their life, the DAY of the Lord when Jesus
comes as a THIEF in the night will NOT come upon those in the CHURCH
who have been found to be those good and FAITHFUL servants.
because one PRAYS a prayer to ACCEPT Jesus as the savior does NOT
automatically GUARANTEE that they shall be found WORTHY to ESCAPE the
WRATH of God, because CLEARLY the WHOLE word of God teaches us that
we MUST without fail KEEP the COMMANDMENTS of Almighty God in order
to have RIGHT to partake of the tree of ETERNAL LIFE in the world to
COME. For a deeper understanding on this subject of once saves always
saved or eternal security please read my study entitled "DOES
THE BIBLE TEACH THAT ONCE YOU ARE SAVED THEN YOU ARE ALWAYS SAVED?"
But for now let us look at the next reason for a pre-tribulation
Here is what Zephaniah 2:1-3 says,
To me the emphasis is place on BEFORE this DAY of the Lord COMES we are to SEEK the Lord and his RIGHTEOUSNESS so much the MORE as we SEE that DAY APPROACHING. Please notice the phase "it MAY be", which is WHY we need NOT to be HIGH MINDED to think that we can never be DECEIVED by the DECEITFULNESS of SIN and that we should WATCH and PRAY ALWAYS to be ACCOUNTED WORTHY to be HID and ESCAPE the DAY of the Lord coming as a THIEF in the night to execute the WRATH of God.
First of all this being HID has NOTHING what so ever to do with a PRE-tribulation rapture to be HID from the time of great tribulation.
Also there are several WAYS to be HID from the WRATH of God. One way is THROUGH the GRAVE. Job 14:12-14 teaches us that those in the GRAVE are HID from the WRATH of God until it is past.
So then, CLEARLY those who DIE in the Lord Jesus Christ will be HID from the WRATH of Almighty God.
But ALSO those who have REAMINED alive and have SURVIVED the time of GREAT TRIBULATION who have ENDURE unto the END and who have been found FAITHFUL or WORTHY shall be HID in that DAY by being CAUGHT UP into the AIR to be WITH our Lord Jesus Christ as he executes the WRATH of God upon the ungodly, the disobedient to the gospel and those in the CHURCH who were NOT WATCHING and KEEP SIN out of their lives. CLEARLY it does NOT take a pre-tribulation rapture to be the ONLY WAY to be HID.
87. It’s God’s character to DELIVER His own (righteous ones) from His judgments. Enoch, Noah, Lot, and Rahab are a few. The judgment could NOT happen to Sodom until Lot was TAKEN OUT OF THERE. So also, the tribulation CANNOT happen UNTIL the Church is TAKEN OUT OF THE WORLD in the Pre-Trib Rapture. Compare Luke 17:28-30 to Genesis 19:15-22--paying special attention the verses 16 and 22.
Nowhere do I find that the Bible teaches that the church is taken OUT of the Earth and back to heaven for 7 years in order to ESCAPE anything.
Noah was taken UP by the flood waters ABOVE the Earth, just like we will be CAUGHT UP in the CLOUDS in the AIR above the Earth and then GATHERED TOGETHER by the angel and TAKEN to MEET Jesus at the place called ARMAGEDDON to be with Jesus as he executes the WRATH of Almighty God.
Lot was NOT taken OUT of the Earth to heaven, but rather the SAME DAY that Lot was taken to a PLACE where he would be safe from the fierce anger of the Lord, the very SAME, SELFSAME DAY it rained FIRE and brimstone down, just like it will be when Jesus comes to RAPTURE the CHURCH and then on that SELFSAME DAY in FLAMING FIRE Jesus will take VENGEANCE upon those who trouble and persecute the church.
None of these verses even remotely show or prove a pre-tribulation rapture.
Here is what Isaiah 26:19-21 actually says and teaches.
"Your dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, you that dwell in dust: for your dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. (speaking of the first resurrection of the DEAD IN Christ)
20. COME, my people, enter you into your CHAMBERS, and shut your doors about you: HIDE yourself as it were for a little moment, UNTIL the INDIGNATION be over past.
Now those that teach the pre-tribulation rapture of the church INTERPRET this verse to mean that the CHURCH is HID in heaven for 7 years while the INDIGNATION of WRATH of God is poured out to PUNISH the inhabitants of the earth for their SIN.
I and others who teach the TRUTH of the POST tribulation rapture of
the CHURCH interpret this verse to mean that the people of God are
CAUGHT UP into the CHARIOTS of God to be HID or WITH Jesus until the
WRATH of God is subsided and Almighty God REMEMBERS MERCY and
suspends his WRATH lest all mankind be destroyed. The INDIGNATION is CLEARLY speaking of the WRATH of God, because the Lord does NOT come OUT of his place in heaven until AFTER the time of GREAT TRIBULATION. Therefore the church is not HID UNTIL the SECOND coming of Jesus to execute the WRATH of Almighty God.
As far as John chapter 14 teaching that the church is taken up to heaven is also an ERROR in understanding WHAT John chapters 13,-16 ATUALLY teaches. For a deeper understanding of WHAT our MANSION truly is please read my study called "ARE YOU DWELLING IN YOUR MANSION YET?"
89. ONLY the Pre-Trib Rapture does NOT DIVIDE the Church (Christ’s Body) on a WORKS BASED PRINCIPLE, as does the Partial Rapture. The Pre-Trib Rapture is the GRAND FINALE to our great SALVATION--by GRACE ALONE!
This is definitely a study in and of itself, therfore for a deeper understanding on GRACE, SALVATION through WORKS or NOT by WORKS please read the following studies:
"WHAT IS THE TRUE MEANING OF GRAVE"
"WE ARE NOT SAVED BY OUR OWN GOOD WORKS"
"I AM THE WAY!, WHAT DOES JESUS MEAN?"
"THE WORKS OF THE LAVE VERSES GOOD WORKS"
DOES BEING SAVED TRULY MEAN?"
I agree. No matter what denominational name is placed upon different believers because of not agreeing upon certain doctrines does NOT disqualify them from being caught up to meet the Lord in the air. The ONLY thing that prevents a believer from taking part in the rapture of the church in SIN.
THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE
Here is what 2 Thessalonians 2:5-8 actually says and teaches when LEFT in the ENTIRE CONTEXT of where it is found. Please read 2 Thessalonians 1:4-12 right on through the next chapter 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12
6. Seeing IT (speaking of your SUFFERING presecution and tribulation for the kingdom of God and God SEEING your SUFFERING, IT) is a righteous thing with God to RECOMPENSE (or PAY BACK) tribulation to them that trouble you;
Now CONTINUE to read 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8
1. Now we beseech you, brethren (or we IMPLORE you or BEG you), by the coming (or by appearing) of our Lord Jesus Christ (WHEN HE, JESUS shall be REVEALED in heaven in FLAMING FIRE taking VENGEANCE), AND by OUR GATHERING TOGETHER unto him,
2. That you be NOT SOON shaken in mind (or that you be NOT PREMATURELY shaken in mind), or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the DAY of Christ is at hand (speaking of the DAY of the LORD where Jesus comes as a THIEF in the night in a FLAMING FIRE and the heaven being on FIRE to execute the WRATH of God. Do NOT be PREMATURELY troubled that THAT DAY of Christ to pour out the WRATH of God is AT HAND).
3. Let NO man DECEIVE you by ANY MEANS: for THAT DAY (the GREAT AND NOTABLE DAY of the Lord's WRATH) shall NOT come, EXCEPT there come a falling away FIRST, AND that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
5. REMEMBER you not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? (well if not I just told you AGAIN the JESUS will NOT be REVEALED until HIS TIME and HIS TIME to be REVEALED will NOT come UNTIL there coming a FALLING away FIRST, AND that man of sin the antichrist be made know to us.
6. And NOW you KNOW what withholds that HE (referring to JESUS, and NOW you KNOW what is WITHHOLDING or is keeping JESUS from being revealed from heaven, that HE, speaking of JESUS) might be REVEALED in HIS TIME.
7. For the MYSTERY of iniquity (or the MYSTERY that which is behind SIN) does already work: only HE (speaking of SATAN) who NOW lets (or who now HINDERS) will let (or HE SATAN, who now presently HINDERS will continue to HINDER), until HE (SATAN) be taken out of the way (or CAST out of the MIDST of the heaven and cast down to the Earth where HE or when SATAN the DEVIL will know that his time is short).
8. And THEN (at this time when Satan is cast out out the midst of heaven and down to the earth, THEN) shall that Wicked be revealed (or that WICKEDNESS that is behind the MYSTERY of SIN will be made known in the man of sin called the antichrist who will make war with the people of God persecuting them as they have never been persecuted before since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be again.), whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:"
The HE here that is HINDERING the CHURCH is SATAN. Satan and the ruling principalities and powers of the air HINDER the PRAYERS of the saints as we are taught in Daniel 10:12,13 where Daniel's PRAY was HINDERS for 21 days as Michael and another angel FOUGHT the principalities and powers of the air over Persia to get the answer to Daniels prayer through to Daniel.
the CHURCH throughout the New Testament is always refer to as a SHE
and NOT a HE. Therefore the HE
here referring to the one who HINDERS is NOT the CHURCH, but RATHER
is referring to SATAN who is the MYSTERY behind SIN and who HINDERS
the prayers of the CHURCH.
these are INTEPRETATIONS of verses that can be INTERPRETED in other
ways. I personally believe that this so called signing of a covenant
of PEACE treat with Israel by the antichrist who then BREAKS this
peace so called peace treaty at the med point of the period of the so
called SEVEN years of GREAT TRIBULATION is all due to the
MISINTERPRETATION of scripture. I will explain what I mean by this a
little later in this study.
First of all here is what Matthew 16:18 actually says and teaches when LEFT in it's CONTEXT. Please read Matthew 16:15-18, which teaches us that it is the REVEALED KNOWLEDGE that come from Almighty God, the FATHER that the gates of hell shall NOT prevail against. This verse says NOTHING about the gates of hell NOT being able to PREVAIL or OVERCOME individual believers in the BODY of Christ. All these reference of scripture are WARNINGS for us NOT to be OVERCOME. They are NOT written guarantees so to speak that it is IMPOSSIBLE for any Christian to be OVERCOME. If you believe in the FALSE teaching of ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED, then I IMPLORE you to read the study entitled, "Does the BIBLE teach that ONCE a believer is saved are they ALWAYS SAVED?"
17. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed are you, Simon Barjona: (WHY? Why was Peter BLESSED?) for flesh and blood (or the teachings of man made doctrines) has NOT REVEALED it unto you, but my Father which is in heaven (or it was REVELATION KNOWLEDGE from Almighty God the Father HIMSELF who made this TRUTH know to you).
18. And I say ALSO unto you, That you are Peter, and upon this ROCK (this kind of SOLID ROCK REVELATION KNOWLEDGE) I will BUILD my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against IT (referring to the REVELATION KNOWLEDGE that is made know to us through the Holy Spirit of Almighty God that is like a SOLID ROCK FOUNDATION on which Jesus BUILDS his church)."
Can you not see my dear brothers and sisters in the Lord the INDIVIDUAL believers are OVERCOME or PREVAILED against each and every day. But those who have been given REVELATION knowledge of the TRUTH will NOT back down from the enemy and will NOT be washed away like the house that is BUILT upon sinking SAND.
Now obviously the gates of hell will not prevail against the church as a WHOLE. In other words, while SOME believers may be OVERCOME, there will without fail REMAIN some who will NOT be prevailed against. My point it that this argument does NOT prove a pre-tribulation rapture of the church, because there is NO doubt that INDIVIDUAL believers in the BODY of Christ have been and will be again PREVAILED AGAINST DURING the time of GREAT TRIBULATION.
the little horn (antichrist) made war with the saints and PREVAILED
AGAINST them, plus the antichrist will speak great words against the
most high and shall WEAR OUT the saints. Again, for the Church, the
gates of hell shall NOT prevail against us (or overcome us). Again,
the Church CANNOT be the saints in the tribulation who are PREVAILED
AGAINST, and OVERCOME! Again, this PROVES the Rapture MUST be
If this kind of logic were TRUE, then EVERY single believer from day one who was PREVAILED AGAINST by being MARTYRED, killed, or beheaded for the sake of the gospel of Jesus Christ would NOT be truly part of the CHURCH, BECAUSE they were PREVAILED AGAINST. If this kind of illogical REASONING were TRUE, the EVERY SINGLE believer who has EVER been OVERCOME by temptation and have given in to temptation to SIN, then is NOT truly part of the CHURCH, BECAUSE they were OVERCOME.
Can you not see my dear brothers and sisters in the Lord how ridiculous this line of REASONING is in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of God? You see it is ONLY those who ARE OVERCOME and who do NOT REPENT who will be PREVAILED AGAINST in the END, because NO WICKEDNESS will ENTER the kingdom of God.
But Daniel 7:21-25 corresponds the Revelation 11:7,8 and both passages speak of PREVAILING over the saints as meaning KILLING the saints. In other word's, prevailed against equals being MARTYRED for Jesus.
THE BRIDE OF JESUS
The church being the
BRIDE of Christ does NOT prove a pre-tribulation rapture. All these stories told about how Jesus would never BEAT his BRIDE does not prove a PRE-tribulation rapture, because Jesus plainly told us that MEN would afflict and persecute us, Revelation 2:10 even says the SATAN, the Devil will cast some in the church into prison where they will have TRIBULATION ten days. In other words, it is NOT Jesus who is BEATING his bride to be, but rather it is SATAN, who uses PEOPLE to PERSECUTE and AFFLICT the CHURCH.
as above, this does NOT prove a pre-tribulation rapture. I personally do not use Jewish traditions to form SOUND BIBLICAL doctrine, but rather we are to use the word of TRUTH, the Holy Bible to establish doctrine. And I might add we are to use the WHOLE word of God, and NOT just the verse that fit the teaching that are PLEASING to the ear to hear.
this is an INTERPRETATION based solely upon the word "MANSION".
The word that is TRANSLATED as MANSION here in John chapter 14 has
NOTHING whatsoever to do with a dwelling place in heaven. For a
deeper understanding of what I mean by this and the TRUE meaning of
the word that is translated as MANSION please read the study "ARE
YOU DWELLING IN YOUR MANSION YET?".
these statements of true facts do NOT prove a pre-tribulation rapture simply beacuse the facts are TRUE.
And besides it is not wise to interpret the Bible based upon sources OUTSIDE the scriptures themselves, particularly when the sources
being used CONTRADICT what the WHOLE word of God teaches. So then, this
WHOLE argument of a Jewish wedding is NOT a valid argument in my
opinion, because it is not scripture.
Again perhaps all true facts, as I do not know much about Jewish wedding traditions. But again TRADITIONS of men rather than the word of TRUTH. Still I do not see how this proves a pre-tribulation rapture.
me if the Lord truly meant for the Jewish wedding ceremony to be used
as a type of the rapture, then it would seem logical to have the
groom to be back at his father's house for TWO years rather than just
ONE to parallel the TWO thousand years Jesus has been in
it is true that the church is to KEEP herself SPOTLESS as a BRIDE for
the groom. But this does NOT prove a pre-tribulation rapture. In
other words, ALL these statements of facts whether they are true or
not CANNOT be used as INDIVIDULAL and SEPARATE reasons as the author
of these 250 reasons for a pre-tribulation rapture has tried to
read the study "ARE YOU DWELLING IN YOUR MANSION YET?" to
understand that this passage of scripture has NOTHING what so ever to
do with a DWELLING place of a MANSION in HEAVEN.
this is TRADITIONS of men as opposed to the word of TRUTH. The facts
may be true, but they still do NOT prove a PRE-tribulation
NOT Biblical, because again the church doe NOT go to HEAVEN during
TRUTH the Bible teaches that the time of great tribulation is 3 1/2
years and NOT 7 years. See my study "THE GREAT TRIBULATION"
for all the verses that CLEARLY show that the time of GREAT
TRIBULATION is 3 1/2 years, or 42 months, or 1260 days.
In TRUTH the MARRIAGE SUPPER of the Lamb does NOT take place UNTIL the SECOND coming of Jesus. Please read Revelation 19:1-9 which teaches us that the actual MARRIAGE takes place AFTER Babylon is JUDGED and the MARRIAGE SUPPER of the Lamb is ACTUALLY Jesus executing the WRATH of Almighty God upon Babylon.
"And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honor, and power, unto the Lord our God:
7. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him: (WHY?) for the MARRIAGE of the Lamb is COME (or NOW time TIME has COME for Jesus, the Lamb of God to MARRY his BRIDE, the CHURCH) , and his WIFE (or his WIFE to be) has made made herself ready.
Then in Revelation19:11-19 we read about the SECOND coming of Jesus coming as a THIEF in the night to execute the WRATH of Almighty God which is called the SUPPER of our great God.
14. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.(speaking about the DEAD in Christ who were under the altar awaiting there CHANGE which God will bring WITH him when he comes)
15And out of his mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treads the wine press of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
17. And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that flying the midst of heaven, (which represents the CHURCH that has just been RAPTURED) Come and GATHER yourselves TOGETHER unto the SUPPER of the great God; (It has been said that VENGEANCE TASTES GOOD)
18. That you may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
True, but this does not prove a pre-tribulation rapture.
108. In 2 Corinthians 11:2, we, the Church, are “espoused to one husband,” that we may be presented as “a chaste virgin to Christ.”
Same as above.
109. In James 4:4, the Church is warned about the lusts of the flesh and love of the world which makes us “adulterers and adulteresses”--a people who turn against their wedding vows (by refusing to keep themselves separate from such things).
In Jude 1:14,15 we CLEARLY see that these verses are speaking of the SECOND coming of Jesus, because Jesus is coming to execute vengeance upon the ungodly.
However we ALSO see that AT this SECOND coming of Jesus that Jesus is coming with ten thousands of his SAINTS.
So then the question arises, HOW is Jesus going to come FOR his SAINTS, when his SAINTS are ALREADY WITH him when he comes again AT his SECOND coming?
Now those that teach the PRE-tribulation point of view make the CLAIM that the ONLY WAY to reconcile this APPEARENT contradiction is to DIVIDED the SECOND coming into TWO different and distinct comings. The FIRST half of his coming will be BEFORE the time of GREAT TRIBULATION in order to RAPTURE his CHURCH and take them back to heaven with him for 7 years while a NEW group of believers are raised up to preach the gospel. And AT his SECOND coming, Jesus will bring those SAINTS WITH him that he RAPTURED BEFORE the time of great tribulation, when he comes FOR the TRIBULATION SAINTS. But ALSO at this SECOND coming Jesus will execute the WRATH of God upon the ungodly.
However, DIVIDING the ONE and ONLY Second coming into TWO separate comings is NOT the ONLY WAY to reconcile the APPEARENT contradiction between Jesus coming WITH his SAINTS and Jesus coming FOR his SAINTS. The simple, plain, and clear answer to this APPARENT contradiction is found in 1 Thessalonians 4:13,14,
"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, CONCERNING them which are asleep (In other words, Paul is speaking to the CHURCH about or CONCERNING those who have DIED in CHRIST those that you sorrow NOT, even as others which have no hope.
So then, in the very SAME passage of scripture that is used to teach the pre-tribulation rapture there is found the answer to HOW is Jesus going to come WITH his SAINTS when AT the SECOND coming Jesus is coming FOR his SAINTS.
THEREFORE there is absolutely NO NEED to DIVIDE the ONE and ONLY SECOND coming of Jesus into TWO SEPARATE and DISTINCT comings, and thereby make THREE coming of Jesus, when the word of TRUTH clearly and plainly teaches that Jesus will come ONLY TWO time, the FIRST time to suffer and die for our sins and the SECOND time to reign as the King of kings.
In TRUTH the WHOLE word of God teaches a POST tribulation rapture of the CHURCH!
GOSPEL PREACHED TO THE WHOLE WORLD--THEN COMES THE END
If it is meant by the author of these 250 reasons for the pre-tribulation rapture that the word "GOSPEL" is to refer to the "GOSPEL of Jesus Christ", then for ME, personally. I do not see this taught in scripture. But if it is meant by the word "Gospel" simply to mean GOOD NEWS, then most certainly any message about God is GOOD NEWS.
me, I see this reason 112 as setting the stage, so to speak, to show
that since the Bible shows the GOSPEL being preached by even just one
other than the CHURCH, then this would show that the CHURCH does NOT
have to be here to PREACH the GOSPEL to all the world. So yes, it may
be true that the CHURCH does NOT HAVE to be here does NOT PROVE that
they WILL NOT be hear DURING the time of GREAT TRIBULATION.
When I read the letters to the SEVEN CHURCHES in Asia I see several things. For one, I see that these seven churches represent the differences in churches THROUGHOUT the CHURCH AGE. But ALSO I see these SEVEN CHURCHES as represent ALL the CHURCHES at the SAME time THROUGHOUT the CHURCH AGE. So then, in these LAST days, we definitely see many different denominations in the CHURCH, some are on fire for the Lord and some are not.
to ME, the fact that the seventh CHURCH mentioned in the book of
Revelation that is described as weak does NOT prove a pre-tribulation
rapture. Now IF ALL the CHURCHES were weak and complacent, then PERHAPS
this would disprove what the "Kingdom Now" and the
"Dominion" groups teach. However, the fact that the seventh
CHURCH called Laodecia is weak does NOT disprove the POST tribulation
rapture of the CHURCH, because the Laodecian CHURCH is still none the
less PART of the CHURCH. Keep in mind that THROUGHOUT history of the
CHURCH that NOT EVERY PART of the CHURCH were STRONG preachers of the
GOSPEL. However, even the weakest of the CHURCHES still shined as
lights in the darkness of wickedness.
I do not argue that Elijah will not be one of the prophets spoken of as one of the TWO WITNESSES in Revelation charter 11, but to DEMAND that there will be TWO and ONLY TWO INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE, whoever they may be, as the ONLY interpretation of the TWO WITNESS is to LIMIT God.
I personally believe that the Holy Spirit revealed to me that the TWO witnesses are TWO GROUPS of people, RATHER than just two INDIVIDUAL people that many of us have been TAUGHT by the INTERPRETATIONS of MEN. When I was studying Revelation chapter 11 and I asked the Lord WHO who the TWO WITNESSES at first the Holy Spirit just kept saying to me read it AGAIN. So I did several times. After becoming a little frustrated and saying back to the Lord, I have read this over and over and I still do not see WHO the TWO WITNESS are. Then the Holy Spirit spoke back to me and said, "Do NOT think of my two witness as just two INDIVIDUAL people, but RATHER think of my TWP WITNESSES as TWO GROUPS of people. So this time when I read it again I began to see things like God does not SEND his two witnesses back to Earth the preach the gospel, but RATHER Almighty God GIVES POWER to his TWO WITNESS to preach the gospel without fear.
a deeper understand as to WHO the TWO WITNESSES are as revealed to me
by the Holy Spirit please read the study that I have entitled, "WHO
ARE THE TWO WITNESS?"
Again, it MAY be that God will also SEND back Elijah and Enoch, or Elijah and Moses, but I personally do not believe that the two witnesses are merely just two individual people, but rather two GROUPS of people. Think about this for a moment. Jesus was the greatest preacher of the gospel in my book ever, and yet Almighty God is his plan of salvation made the choice to remove Jesus from the Earth, and give the job of preaching the gospel to the CHURCH to become part of the BODY of Christ, which IS the CHURCH. Then Jesus said GREATER WORKS shall you, the CHURCH, do than the works that I did being just ONE individual. Now I know Jesus did not say these exact words, but to ME, this is what I see that Jesus meant by what he spoke to us his CHURCH.
then WHY would Almighty God take MANY, MANY hundreds of thousand of
people who are PREACHING the gospel even in their WEAKEST attempt OUT
of the Earth and REPLACE the CHURCH with just TWO INDIVIDUALS. Why
not just GIVE POWER to this WEAK CHURCH to preach the gospel MORE
EFFECTIVELY? So then, to ME I personally believe that the words "I
will GIVE POWER to my TWO WITNESS" means just what it PLAINLY
SAYS. In other words, Almighty God is going to GIVE POWER to the ONLY
TWO GROUPS of people who are STANDING for, or who are being a witness
for the ONE TRUE God in all the Earth. The CHURCH being ONE of those
TWO groups of people.
The ONLY reason that those who teach the pre-tribulation rapture DEMAND that Matthew chapter 24 is NOT speaking to the CHURCH, but RATHER DEMAND that this entire chapter is referring to ISRAEL and NOT the CHURCH, is because this chapter CLEARLY and PLAINING teaches that whoever this group is that is being spoken to here in Matthew chapter 24 WILL WITHOUT FAIL go THROUGH the ENTIRE period of GREAT TRIBULATION. Therefore they must DEMAND that this group being spoken to by Jesus is NOT the CHURCH, other wise their ENTIRE teaching goes right out the window, so to speak. This is WHY that the pre-tribulatin doctrine teaches that Matthew chapter 24 is referring to ISRAEL and NOT the CHURCH.
But IN TRUTH is this teaching of the PRE-tribulation the Matthew 24 is NOT speaking of the CHURCH the TRUTH of the WHOLE word of God? If you SINCERELY desire to know the TRUTH, the WHOLE TRUTH and NOTHING but the TRUTH, then please keep reading this entire study in God's word and the Holy Spirit himself will teach you the TRUTH.
117. Revelation 7:3-8 shows 144,000 sealed SERVANTS of God. These young men will preach the Gospel during the tribulation. They number 12,000 from specific TRIBES OF ISRAEL--and are ministers who will PROCLAIM THE GOSPEL during the awful time when judgments fall from God’s throne. Nothing can harm these servants, because God’s protection is upon them (they are sealed). The RESULT of their PREACHING is A GREAT MULTITUDE seen in Revelation 7:9-12 and Revelation 15:2-4, a group of martyred souls who sing THE SONG OF MOSES. An Israeli TESTIMONY is in sight here--NOT a Church testimony.
It is because of all the FALSE ASSUMPTIONS that are made by the pre-tribulation doctrine that these above FALSE conclusion are drawn. A little truth mixed with a LIE has always been the method of DECEPTION that is used by our adversary the Devil since the beginning.
The TRUTH that has been MISSED by those that theach the pre-tribulation doctrine is that there will be TWO GROUPS that will be WITNESSES for God in the Earth DURING the ENTIRE period of GREAT TRIBULATION. And ONE of these groups sing the song of MOSES and the other of these TWO WITNESSES sing the song of the LAMB. Please read Revelation 15:2,3 which teaches us that these TWO GROUPS of people who have gone THOUGH the time of GREAT TRIBULATIOn and who have OVERCOME and have gotten VICTORY over the beast and his mark sing TWO DIFFERENT SONGS. ONE group sings the song of MOSES and the OTHER group, the CHURCH sings the SONG of the LAMB.
"And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the VICTORY over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
3. And THEY (speaking of ALL those who have OVERCOME during the time of GREAT TRIBULATION) sing the song of Moses the servant of God, AND the song of the Lamb, saying , Great and marvelous are your works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are you ways, you King of saints."
TWO songs, ONE song for each GROUP who stand as a WITNESS for the ONE TRUE God in all the Earth. One group is the CHURCH and the other WITNESS for God is Israel.
If Revelation 14:6 is KEPT in it;s CONTEXT, then the TRUTH will CLEARLY be seen by all those who SINCERELY seek to know the TRUTH. Please read Revelation 14:1-7, which teaches us that this passage of scripture is speaking of the EVERLASTING GOSPEL that will BEGIN being preached the very moment that the RAPTURE of the church occurs, which is WHEN the feet of Jesus touch the GROUND upon Mount Sion, at the time of his SECOND coming.
"And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb STOOD on the mount Sion, and WITH him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.(speaking of the 144,000 of the twelve tribes of Israel who were SEALED so that they would NOT be killed during the time of great tribulation so that they could preach or teach the nations who call upon the Lord AT his coming about the Lord DURING the 1000 year reign of Jesus)
3. And THEY (referring to only the 144,000) sung as it were a NEW song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.(clearly this 144,000 is NOT speaking of the CHURCH who have just been caught up to be with Jesus as he executes the WRATH of God and who have given eternal life to live and reign with Jesus for 1000 years.)
4. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whither so ever he goes. These were redeemed from among men, being the first fruits unto God and to the Lamb.(In other words, these 144,000, who NOW sing this NEW song which no other can learn, who were just now REDEEMED from the Earth FOLLOW the LAMB, or they NOW FOLLOW JESUS, where BEFORE they follow Almighty God, but NOT JESUS.)
5. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.(Keep in mind that the THRONE of God is NOW ON the Earth, or more precisely hovering just above the Earth over Jerusalem. I will explain this in more detail latter on in this study of God's word. Please read the study What does the BIBLE have to say about the YEAR 2012)
7. Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give GLORY to him; for the HOUR of his judgment IS COME (Remember that the HOUR of temptation that is COMING upon the world to try the world is the WRATH of Almighty God and NOT the time of GREAT TRIBULATION): and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters."
So in other words, this EVERLASTING GOSPEL that is being preach by this MESSENGER of God is a crying out to the people on the Earth when they SEE the Son of man COMING in clouds of great glory and power for the people on the Earth to REPENT and CALL upon the name of the Lord. It is a FINAL cry for the people on the Earth to FEAR God and to give Almighty God GLORY. And all those who have chosen the worship Satan, the Devil shall be DESTROYED and cast into the lake of fire.
119. The Everlasting Gospel and the Gospel of the Kingdom WILL be preached in the tribulation--which is God bringing HIS MERCY in the MIDST OF JUDGMENT (but the Church is NOT the ministers). Furthermore, the MESSAGE of the Gospel of the Kingdom is that Jesus will soon RETURN to earth (after the tribulation) to set up His Kingdom in Jerusalem for the Millennium--so the SERVANTS will say, “Prepare to meet your King.” Jesus’ return to THE EARTH will also answer the petition, “Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.”
While it is TRUE that this message of Jesus' coming is going to be preached during the time of great tribulation, this TRUTH still does not prove a pre-tribulation rapture of the church.
DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE RAPTURE AND THE SECOND COMING
it is TRUE that the rapture, or more specifically our CHANGE, or our
being given ETERNAL LIFE pertains ONLY to the CHURCH, and the EXECUTING of
the WRATH of God relates to Israel and the world and all who are DISOBEDIENT to the GOSPLE. However Almighty
God remembers MERCY and he lifts his WRATH from those who REPENT and
CALL upon his name to be SAVED. And as I said before, those who
REPENT and CALL upon the name of the Lord when they SEE him COMIING
in POWER and great glory
Again the argument is the SAME as above, because it is the SAME reason only worded slightly different, but definitely NOT a completely DIFFERENT reason to try and prove a pre-tribulation rapture. In other words, in all actuality there are NOT 250 DIFFERENT reasons that this author is TRYING to use as undeniable proof of a pre-tribulation rapture.
TRUTH of the matter is that there are only around 15 to 20 logical
reasons to even think of a possibility of a pre-tribulation rapture,
which is nowhere close to this author CLAIM of 250 reasons for a
rapture of the church BEFORE the time of great tribulation.
this very SAME reason has ALREADY been given and adrressed earlier in
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 CLEARLY states that God will BRINGS those
SAINTS whop have DIED IN Christ WITH HIM when he COMES to RAPTURE his
the WAR in heaven were Michael and his angels fight against Satan and
his angels and Satan and his angels are CAST DOWN out of the MIDST of
heaven and taken OUT of the WAY so that they can no longer HINDER the
prayers of the SAINTS, the CHURCH is the event that OPENS the door
for the "man of sin". And YES, this WAR in heaven takes
place around the same time that a so called PRE-tribulation would
take place IF it were a TRUE teaching as taught by the WHOLE word of
God. And yes, it it true that the SECOND coming DOOMS this man of
CLAIM is completely FALSE as I have already shown in many places in
First of all the day nor the hour of the coming of Jesus was NOT KNOWN by ANY man, no, NOT the angels, NOR EVEN Jesus, but ONLY Almighty God the Father knew the time of the coming of his Son Jesus AT the TIME that Jesus spoke these words. You see, the word that is translated as KNOW can also mean PERCEIVED. In other words, NO man had PERCEIVED as YET the day and hour of the return of Jesus. However, the fact that NOW man KNEW that day nor hour of the coming of Jesus in that day does NOT mean that now man will EVER be able to KNOW that day and hour of the return of Jesus. Even those who teach the PRE-tribulation doctrine also teach that ONE DAY men WILL KNOW that day and hour of the COMING of Jesus.
Can you not see my dear brothers and sisters in the Lord, that the ONE and ONLY SECOND coming of Jesus does NOT need to be DIVIDED into TWO SEPARATE and completely DIFFERENT and DISTINCT comings as the ONLY WAY to harmonize these APPARENT contradictions in God's word.
is just a matter of RIGHTYLY DIVIDING the word of TRUTH, which
CLEARLY teaches a POST tribulation rapture of the CHURCH without
having to make ANY changes to Gods word.
For ME personally, I see the JUDGMENT SEAT of Christ as FIRST being FOUND to be IN Christ Jesus and having the EAREST of the SPIRIT of Christ IN us. Secondly I see the REWARD and NOT rewards as in plural. In other words, the REWARD of ETERNAL LIFE is given to us, BECAUSE of WORKS.
Yes, I can hear some of you saying, "You BLASPHEMER, NO man is SAVED by his OWN GOOD WORKS! Do NOT believe this FALSE teacher! Why hear you him any longer!"
To these thoughts whether spoken or not I say PLEASE, I IMPLORE you to read the following studies:
"WE ARE NOT SAVED BY OUR OWN GOOD WORKS"
"WORKS of the LAW VERSES GOOD WORKS"
"I AM THE WAY-WHAT DID JESUS TRULY MEAN?"
"WHAT DOES BEING SAVED TRULY MEAN?"
And NO, Matthew 24:31-46 describes the RAPTURE of the CHURCH and NOT the dividing of the SHEEP and the GOATS.
The dividing of the SHEEP and the Goats BEGINS at the SECOND coming of Jesus, but for ME, I see it CONTINUING right on through the 1000 year reign of Jesus and ending at the great white thron judgment at the END of the 1000 year reign of Jesus, because it is not until the END of the 1000 years that the GOATS are cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death.
127. The Rapture pertains to God’s mercy and grace. The Second Coming pertains to God’s wrath.
absolutely agree, but this does NOT prove a PRE-tribualtion rapture.
God can and WILL show mercy and GRACE at the SECOND coming of Jesus.
Mercy and GRACE at the RAPTURE of the CHURCH at the SECOND comimng of
Jesus. Mercy and GRACE for those who REPENT and CALL upon his name
WHEN the SEE Jesus COMING in great POWER and glory. And WRATH upon
all those who refuse to REPENT and who worship Satan and the beast
and who follow the beast.
ME personally I do not see a diiference between Jesus being the
MORNING STAR and the SUN of RIGHTEOUSNESS. The Sun is a STAR and it
ONLY BEGINS to shine in the MORNING.
the HOPE of the CHURCH is the RESURRECTION and the RECEIVING of
ETERNAL LIFE and of course to see Jesus our savior and Almighty God
our Father who made it all possible. For with man it was IMPOSSIBLE,
but with God all things are possible. And the HOPE of Israel is their
coming Messiah to deliver them from their enemy that seeks to wipe
them from the face of the Earth.
Have you ever at least CONSIDERED that Jesus comes again AT his ONE and ONLY SECOND coming who then PAUSES jsut long enough to RAPTURE his CHURCH to MEET him in the AIR and THEN CONTINUE on DOWN to the Earth to fight against the armies that are fighting against his people Israel. And this ALL takes place AT the SECOND coming of Jesus.
you not see my dear brothers and sisters in the Lord, that there is
NO need to DIVIDE the ONE and ONLY SECOND coming of Jesus in to TWO
separate and distinct comings of Jesus as the ONLY WAY to harmonize
these APPARENT contradictions in God's word that are NOT
cntradictions at all, but RATHER they are MISINTERPRETATION that MAN
has come to CLAIM what these verse mean.
Again this is based upon the FALSE ASSUMPTION that the ONE and ONLY SECOND coming of Jesus MUST WITHOUT FAIL be DIVIDED into TWO separated comings.
in TRUTH Jesus could more easily come AT his SECOND coming, PAUSE in
the air, BEFORE any one one Earth can actually SEE him, RAPTURE his
CHURCH at this time, then CONTINUE on to this place called ARMAGEDDON
to execute the WRATH of Almighty God, which is WHEN the mount of
Olives is split in two to make a way of escapre of his people Israel
who are fleeing from the armies of the world who are trying to wipe
them from the face of the Earth. Again absolutely NO NEED for a so
called PRE-tribulation rapture to HARMONIZE those APPARENT
contradictions in God's word.
Again this reason is made upon FALSE assumtions that the MUST be TWO SECOND comings of Jesus. The CHANGE spoken of AT the FIRST resurrection of the DEAD IN Christ take place AT the SECOND coming of Jesus when Jesus comes as a THIEF in the night, which is called the DAY of the Lord in which Jesus comes in FLAMING FIRE to execute the WRATH of Almighty God.
the time of GREAT TRIBULATION is NOT the WRATH of God.
at the EXACT SPLIT SECOND that the RAPTURE occurs, NO the WRATH of
God is NOT being poured out, but the very next spit second the WRATH
of God will most certainly be poured out. This is NOT an argument for
a PRE-tribulation rapture, just a rapture that occurs BEFORE the
WRATH of God is poured out, because the CHURCH is NOT appointed to
the WRATH of God.
I totally agree. At the RAPTURE of the CHURCH the CHURCH is DELIVERED
from the WRATH of God and AT the SAME time AT the SECOND coming of
Jesus the CHURCH is also DELIVERED from the suffering of the GREAT
TRIBULATION which they have just ENDURE.
this CLAIM that the rapture is IMMINENT is made upon FALSE ASSUPTIONS
and MISGUIDED INTERPRETAIONS. Jesus WARNS the CHURCH to WATCH for the
SIGNS of his COMING so that the CHURCH would KNOW that the day and
hour of his COMING is NIGH AT HAND. Hebrews teaches us to NOT forsake
the assembling of ourselves together and exhort one another to GOOD
WORKS and even MUCH THE MORE, WHEN we SEE the DAY of our Lord
APPROACHING. Simply put there is absolutely no way to SEE that day
APPROACHING if there were NO SIGNS to look for so that when we SEE
these SIGNS, then we would KNOW that his return in very NEAR.
absolutely agree, ONLY those IN the CHURCH who have been found to be
FAITHFUL and have ENDURED unto the END, whether that END by their
FAITHFULNESS unto DEATH or our FAITHFULNESS unto the coming of Jesus,
it is ONLY the FAITHFUL who will be SAVED and given ETERNAL LIFE AT
the SECOND coming of Jesus. But again this fact does NOT prove a
reason has ALREADY been shown to be FALSE several times in this
study. No matter how many different ways one rewords this reason it
is still just ONE reason. The TRUTH of the matter is that Jesus is
coming FOR his CHURCH AT his ONE and ONLY SECOND coming, in the which
a split second AFTER the CHURCH is HID and SAFE with Jesus, then
Jesus will execute the WRATH of Almighty God upon those who do NOT
REPENT and CALL upon his name to be saved alive to go into the
millennium in their MORTAL bodies.
Any honest Bible student knows that not EVERY verse that is referring to the exact SAME thing gives EVERY DETAIL in the EXACT SAME WAY. Anyone who SINCERELY is seeking the TRUTH will CLEARLY see ALL the SIMILARITIES of 1 Thessalonisan 4:13-18 when compared to Matthew chapter 24.
Again those that teach the FALSE PRE tribulation doctrine MUST WITHOUT FAIL find reasons, not matter how small they may be, because Matthew chapter 24 CLEARLY, PLAINLY and SIMPLY shows a RAPTURE of GOD'S PEOPLE being GATHERED TOGETHER to Jesus IN the CLOUDS. Therefore they MUST WITHOUT FAIL identify this group called the ELECT as someone OTHER than the CHURCH, or else their entire teaching is COMPLETELY BLOWN AWAY.
TRUTH of the matter is that Jesus HIMSELF SENDS his ANGELS to GATHER
TOGETHER his CHURCH, his ELECT, his CHOSEN ONES to himself at this
place called ARMAGEDDON to be WITH Jesus while he executes the WRATH
of Almighty God upon all those who do NOT REPEANT and CALL upon the
Lord to give God GLORY. No NEED for a PRE- tribulation to HARMONIZE
all the scriptures.
Whether one is TAKEN to be destroyed or whether one is LEFT BEHIND to be destroyed is just a matter of INTERPRETATION.
Here is what Matthew 13:30 actually says and teaches,
"Let both grow together UNTIL the HARVEST: and IN the TIME of HARVEST I will say to the reapers, Gather you together FIRST the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: BUT gather the wheat into my barn."
Let me paraphrase this verse for you, IN the TIME of HARVEST there may be MANY things for the reapers of the harvest to do, BUT the very FIRST thing they must do is gathere the wicked to be burned or destroyed and ALSO gather the RIGHTEOUS into the kingdom of God. AFTER this ONE task is DONE we are not told in this PARABLE what the angels are to do SECOND. In other words, the FIRST job of the angels is to basically SEPARATE or disctinguish between the RIGHTEOUS and the WICKED and then gather together the RIGHTEOUS into the kingdm of God and DESTROY the WICKED. To ME the word FIRST does NOT depict or DEMAND a specific order in which the wicked are destroyed and the righteous are gathered into the kingdom of God. To ME it is ALL ONE SINGLE JOB that the angels are sent to do FIRST.
One must also keep in mind that these are PARABLES and not every word in every PARABLE is to be taken LITERALLY. Here is what I mean by this. Keeping Matthew 13:30 and Matthew 13:49,50 in thier CONTEXT let us read Matthew 13:47-50, which CLEARLY shows us the EVERY WORD in EVERY PARABLE CANNOT be taken LITERALLY.
"AGAIN, the kingdom of heaven is LIKE unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of EVERY kind (meaning BOTH the GOOD and BAD will be gathered together FIRST and then the GOOD will be kept and the BAD will be cast away, that is to say, IF every single word is to be taken LITERALLY in EVERY PARABLE):
Also keep in mind that there will be some who are considered JUST by Almighty God STILL hear ON the Earth after the RAPTURE of the CHURCH has taken place only a split second before in which the WICKED will be SEVERED from AMONG the just. So then, neither of these PARABLES prove without a doubt the PRE-tribulation rapture. Other wise we would also have to have a rapture that gathers together ALL the people of the Earth together FIRST and THEN separrate them, the just from the unjust or the unjust from the just. To Me, it is just a SINGLE job that must be doen FIRST in order to move on into the new age of the millennium.
140. In the Rapture, Jesus RECEIVES us to Himself. It will NOT be US “receiving” Him when He returns in the Second Coming. John 14:2-3. If the Rapture occurred in Revelation 19, we’d go up TO MEET (or RECEIVE) Him and IMMEDIATELY RETURN to earth with Him.
I am not sure how one get the MEANING of MEET to be RECEIVE, because the word "MEET" means to come into the presence of, or to join with, to come together. Now if some one is coming from one place and heading to another place and we go to MEET them at a specific place, then it is commonly assumed that we go to MEET with that person in order to CONTINUE on with that person to the place that that person was heading toward when we went out to MEET that person. In other words, when we MEET Jesus is the AIR we will JOIN with Jesus and be WITH Jesus to go with Jesus to the PLACE where he is HEADING, which is the PLACE called in the Hebrew tongue ARMAGEDDON. Please read Revelation 16:15,16 which teaches us that the ANGELS will GATHER those of us who are READY and have our garment clean and without spot TOGETHER to that PLACE called in the Hebrew tongue called ARMAGEDDON to MEET Jesus in the AIR to be WITH Jesus as he CONTINUES on DOWN to the Earth to the Mount of Olives to execute the WRATH of Almighty God.
"Behold, I come as a THIEF. Blessed is he that WATCHES, and KEEPS his garments, lest he walk naked, and THEY (referring to the ANGELS of God sent by Jesus HIMSELF to GATHER TOGETHER his FAITHFUL, lest THEY the ANGELS) see his shame.
Please notice that we are NOT gathered together and then taken to heaven with Jesus for 7 years in order to escape the WRATH of God. NO, NONE of the PRE-trbulation rapture fantasy is necessary as the ONLY WAY to harmonize those SEEMINGLY contradictory verses of scripture.
141. If we rose to meet Him and immediately returned to earth with Him in Revelation 19, WHERE is the Judgment Seat of Christ (the Bema) and the wedding ceremony for the Bride? The NEXT THING that happens AFTER the Second Coming is the Judgment of the Sheep and the Goats.
I have ALREADY explained the judgment seat of Christ as being the
very rapture itself. Jesus WARNS us in Revelation 22:11-14 that his
coming is going to be QUICK. Therefore he that is NOT ready when the
RAPTURE of more specifically our CHANGE occurs will be LEFT BEHIND,
because there will be NO TIME to REPENT at the time of our CHANGE. I
you are NOT ready, then it will be TOO LATE to take prt in the CHANGE
and RECEIVED ETERNAL LIFE at this particular time. I do see that
there will be time to REPENT and CALL upon the Lord AFTER the Rapture
had occured in order to go into the 1000 years i a MORTAL body. So
then we can see that the age of GRACE go on into the millinneum.
12. And, behold, I come QUICKLY (or at the very beginning of my coming will be a MOMENT in time when he that is unjust will remain unjust for that brief moment in time and he that is righteous in that MOMENT in time will not be able to fall away in that MOMENT but will be found to be righteous. And at this precise MOMENT in TIME the will be a CHANGE that take place to ONLY those who are found to be RIGHTEOUS at that EXACT MOMENT in time so therefore be WARNED that I COME QUICKLY and you will NOT have time to REPENT so WATCH for the SIGNS of my coming so that you will KNOW when my coming is NEAR AT HAND, so that you will be SO MUCH MORE on your quard to be HOLY and RIGHTEOUS when I COME QUICKLY in a MOMENT and in a TWINKLING of an eye); and my REWARD (speaking of our REWARD of ETERNAL LIFE, the PROMISE of our CHANGE) is with me, to give every man according as his WORK (that SINGLE WORK that we are doing AT that PRECISE MOMENT no matter if it be RIGHTEOUS or if it be WICKED we shall ALL be judged by that FINAL WORK we are DOING at that PRECISE MOMENT in time when Jesus COMES QUICKLY to give every man ACCORDING as his WORK) shall be.
14. Blessed are THEY that DO his COMMANDMENTS, that THEY (speaking of ONLY THEY who are DOING his COMMANDMENTS when Jesus COMES QUICKLY, because ONLY THEY) may have RIGHT to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."
NO, it is ONLY ASSUMED that it is impossible for there to be a CHANGE at the SECOND coming of Jesus, because those who teach the pre-tribulation rapture need this FALSE ASSUMPTION to be true in order for their FALSE teaching to be supported.
However, IN TRUTH it is very easy to see that the CHANGE and the CATCHING UP of the CHURCH takes place AT the ONE and ONLY SECOND coming of Jesus.
Jesus comes in the CLOUDS, PAUSES, the CHANGE or translation occurs where the DEAD in Christ are raised FIRST, then we who have REMAINED ALIVE and have SURVIVED thetime of great tribulation are CHANGED right along WITH the SAINTS who DIED in Christ which God brings WITH him AT the SECOND coming of Jesus are ALSO resurrected and their bodies CHANGED. Then we will ALL be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER into the CLOUDS or in the AIR to be GATHERED TOGETHER by the ANGELS which Jesus HIMSELF SENT to gather us together and then the angels bring us to MEET Jesus in the AIR over this place called ARMAGEDDON where we will then CONTINUE on WITH Jesus DOWN to the Earth at the Mount of Olives to be with Jesus as he executes the WRATH of Almighty God.
NO NEED to DEMAND that there is NO OTHER WAY to HARMONIZE the
APPARENT contradiction other than the SPLIT the ONE and ONLY SECOND
comimg into TWO separate and distinct comings of Jesus, because a
POST tribulation rapture make PERFECT sense of ALL the verses of
scripture WITHOUT having to change even one single verse.
the event of our CHANGE is for the CHURCH, where as the separating of
the SHEEP and the GOATS is rereferring to the separating of those who
REPENT and CALL upon the name of the Lord AT his COMING when they SEE
him coming if great glory and power and those who refuse to repent
but rather follow the beast to fight to the death against Almighty
God, because to them there is NO GOD.
Now this reason is a direct CONTRADICTION of this authors our words, because she has stated earlier that there are those who go into the millinnem in their MORTAL bodies. Please read her previous reason number 142, which says,
The Judgment of Gentile nations follows the Second Coming (Matthew 25:31-46). This scripture shows that BOTH the SAVED and the LOST are in NATURAL bodies (which would be IMPOSSIBLE if there were a translation, or Rapture, at the Second Coming).
have ALREADY shown that it is NOT IMPOSSIBLE several times in this
This statement is a DIRECT CONTRADICTION of the CLEAR, PLAIN and SIMPLE word of God.
Please read Revelation 20: 4-6, which CLEARLY teaches us that those who BOTH suffer and DIE DURING the time if GREAT TRIBULATION who died IN CHRIST being founf FAITHFUL untot DEATH and those who have SURVIVED and have REMAINED ALIVE after the time of GREAT TRIBULATION has come to and end when Jesus comes the SECOND time to CATCH UP his CHURCH to himself in order to LIVE and REIGN WITH him for 1000 years.
"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were BEHEADED for the witness of Jesus (or DIED for Jesus), and for the word of God, and which had NOT worshiped the beast, neither his image , neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands (which we ALL know takes place DURING the time of GREAT TRIBULATION); and THEY (referring to all the SAINTS who went THROUGH the GREAT TRIBULATION and were found to be FAITHFUL) LIVED and REIGNED WITH Christ a thousand years (in other words, THESE SAINTS who went THROUGH the time of GREAT TRIBULATION will LIVE and REIGN WITH Jesus in their GLORIFIED ETERNAL bodies and NOT in their MORTAL bodies as the FALSE doctrine of the PRE-tribulation rapture FALSELY teaches).
This is the FIRST resurrection.(speaking of the resurrection of ONLY the DEAD in Christ, because the REST of the dead are NOT raised UNTIL the END of the 1000 year rein of Jesus and his CHURCH, which INCLUDES ALL the SAINTS who go THROUGH the time of GREAT TRIBULATION)
6. Blessed and holy is he that has PART in the FIRST resurrection: on such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign WITH him a thousand years."
Verse 6 proves that those who LIVE and REIGN WITH Jesus for 1000 years have ALREADY RECEIVED ETERNAL LIFE and do NOT LIVE and REIGN in their MORTAL bodies, because the SECOND DEATH has NO power over them. In other words, they are ETERNAL BEINGS now.
BIBLE HERMENEUTICS (INTERPRETATION)--SCRIPTURES MUST AGREE
statement or reason is just a matter of opinion, because for ME, I
find that the PRE-tribulation point of view CHANGES quite a bit of
straight forward simple easily understood passages of scripture which
have been TWISTED and REDEFINED to FIT the PRE-tribulation point of
view, and THEREFORE have BECOME difficult to understand because of
the WAY they were TAUGHT. Any doctrine that if FALSE is hard for
those who were TAUGHT this FALSE doctrine to SEE and UNDERSTAND the
TRUTH. It is NOT because the word of God is HARD to understand, but
RATHER it is HARD for them to LAY ASIDE these FALSE teachings long
enough for them to RECEIVE the TRUTH of the WHOLE word of God.
Again another FALSE statement, because not EVERY one who teaches the TRUTH of a POST tribulation rapture of the CHURCH makes the church a spiritual Israel.
the ONLY interval of time that Almighty God needs is the PRECISE
MOMENT in time that is so QUICK that the word of God calls it as a
FLASH of lightning or a TWINKLING of an eye. God does NOT need 7
years to make his change from dealing with the CHURCH to his dealing
Again, this is an ASSUMPTION or personal INTERPRETATION of WHY these words "what the Spirit says to the churches" are not written in this particular verse of scriture.
Just because these words ar NOT spoken in EVERY verse that is spoken to the CHURCH does NOT prove in ANY WAY that the CHURCH is NOT being spoken to, because IF this deduction were true, then EVERY single verse in the Bible that was speaking to the CHURCH would have to INCLUDE these same words, "what the Spirit says unto the churches"
As I said before not every passage of scripture that speaks on the same things always says it in the EXACT SAME way.
is what Revelation 13:9 atually says and teaches when LEFT in it's
CONTEXT. Please read Revelation 13:8-10 which teaches us that there
will be those SAINTS on the Earth who names are WRITTEN in the LAMBS
book of LIFE. ONLY thos who BELONG to Jesus are found in the LAMBS
book of LIFE. Therefore these SAINTS who are ON the Earth during this
time of GREAT TRIBULATION are the CHURCH and NOT some NEW group of
believers that take the place of the CHURCH. Sounds like REPLACEMENT
theology to me.
"And ALL that DWELL upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are NOT written in the book of life of the LAMB slain from the foundation of the world.
10. He that leads into captivity shall go into captivity: he that kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the SAINTS (in other words be PATIENT for VENGEANCE is MINE says the Lord, therfore do NOT kill those that are seeking to kill you, because Almighty God will AVENGE your shed blood that you shed for Jesus)."
No my dear brothers and sisters in the Lord, the CHURCH will go THROUGH the TIME of GREAT TRIBULATION, so get your heart ready to lay down your life for the Lord if so be it you become faced with this honor.
149. In the tribulation passage of Revelation 13:6, the antichrist is given a mouth to blaspheme God, His name, His tabernacle and THEM THAT DWELL IN HEAVEN. Who are those who DWELL in heaven? The Raptured Church.
Those who dwell in heaven are Almighty God, his Son Jesus, the ANGELS who REMAINED FAITHFUL to God, and those SAINTS who have DIED in Christ Jesus throughout the church age as well as those Old Testament SAINTS who were PREACHED to in the prison of holding place in the heart of the Earth and who rose from the grave with Jesus and ascended to heaven with Jesus.
is absolutely NO NEED to DEMAND that this verse mean that there is NO
OTHER WAY for there to be anyone in heaven UNLESS there is a
PRE-tribulation rapture to get them there.
line of reason has been addressed several time already in this study.
See 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 where we are taught that God will bring
the SAINTS who have DIED IN Christ WITH him when he comes. NO NEED to
fabricate a PRE-tribulation rapture to HARMONIZE this APPARENT
contradiction in God's word.
line of reasoning as above.
does NOT prove a PRE-tribulation rapture.
I have ALREADY address this same line of reasoning and have also
clearly shown that there is NO NEED to have a so called
PRE-tribulation rapture, because all the spriptures HARMONIZE
PERFECTLY with a POST tribulation rapture of the CHURCH without
having to redefine words and make CHANGES in the word of God.
While I agree that Revelation 4:1 is a type, shadow or figure of the rapture of the church it is just the FIRST of SEVEN types, shadows, or figures of the rapture of the church. Now there is NOT going to be SEVEN DIFFERENT raptures of the church, but rather these seven different places in the book of Revelation illustrate the ONE and ONLY rapture that will take place IMMEDIATELY AFTER the time of GREAT TRIBULATION.
Here are the SEVEN different places in the book of Revelation where the rapture of the CHURCH can be found.
FIRST example of the rapture: Revelation 4:1
"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, COME UP HITHER, and I will show you things which must be hereafter.
8. And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
SECOND example of the rapture: Revelation 7:9-17
"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number , of all nations, and kindred, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with WHITE ROBES, and palms in their hands;
Now I want you to notice that chapter 7, where we see those who CAME OUT of GREAT TRIBULATION are NOW CAUGHT UP to the throne of God, that this chapter 7 is positioned BETWEEN the opening of the SIXTH SEAL and the opening of the SEVENTH SEAL.
The FIRST SIX SEAL are opened DURING the time of GREAT TRIBULATION and the opening of the SEVENTH SEAL is not opened until AFTER the rapture in chapter 8. The opening of the SEVENTH SEAL represents the pouring out of the WRATH of God where there is SILENCE in heaven for the space of 1/2 and hour, which represents ONE HALF of of the HOUR of God's WRATH, because God remembers MERCY and lifts his WRATH lest all of his people Israel be destroyed. Then in the next verse we see the SEVEN trumpets being given to the seven angels.
THIRD example of the rapture: Revelation 11:11-14
"And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. (this verse is speaking of the FIRST RESURRECTION of the dead in Christ who were martyred DURING the time of GREAT TRIBULATION)
12. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them,COME UP HITHER. And they ASCENDED UP to heaven in a CLOUD; and their enemies beheld them.(this is speaking of the RAPTURE of the CHURCH)
13. And the SAME HOUR (or AT this SAME time the HOUR of the WRATH of God BEGINS) was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the REMNANT were frightened, and gave GLORY to the God of heaven. (this is speaking of the REMNANT of Israel and ALSO the REMNANT of the NATIONS of CALL upon the name of the Lord and are SAVED alive to go into the millennium in the MORTAL bodies.)
14. The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe comes quickly." (the third woe is the WRATH of God, which is the SEVENTH and LAST TRUMPET that is blown in the very next verse.)
Again I want you to notice that FIRST SIX TRUMPETS are blown DURING the time of GREAT TRIBULATION and THEN the rapture occurs, and THEN the HOUR of God's WRATH is poured out AT the LAST of the SEVEN TRUMPETS.
FOURTH example of the rapture: Revelation 14:14-16
15. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in your sickle, and REAP: for the TIME (SINGULAR, which teaches us that there is ONLY ONE rapture of the CHURCH) is come for you to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
FIFTH example of the rapture: Revelation 16:15,16
16 And he GATHERED them TOGETHER into a PLACE called in the Hebrew tongue ARMAGEDDON (in other words the CHURCH is NOT take up to heaven for 7 years to ESCAPE the time of GREAT TRIBULATION, but rather the church is taken to the battle ground of ARMAGEDDON, which is the SUPPER of our great God where we judge the world with Jesus)."
AGAIN I want you to notice that the FIRST SIXT VIALS are poured out DURING the time of GREAT TRIBULATION and THEN Jesus comes as a THIEF in the night to RAPTURE those in the church who are KEEPING SIN OUT of their lives and then we are GATHERED TOGETHER and taken to the SUPPER of our great God, which I personally believe is the MARRIAGE SUPPER of the Lamb where Jesus executes the WRATH and VENGEANCE of Almighty God for his SAINTS, the CHURCH.
In the very next verse we can see the SEVENTH VIAL being poured out, which is the WRATH of God. Again the time of GREAT TRIBULATION is NOT the WRATH of God!
SIXTH example of the rapture: Revelation 18:4
6 REWARD her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she has filled fill to her double. (this show US the CHURCH helping Jesus execute the WRATH of God upon the world)
7. How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she says in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
8. Therefore shall her plagues come IN ONE DAY (remember that a DAY is as a 1000 years and a 1000 years is as a DAY), death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judges her."
Then in verses 17-20 we read that this vengeance or WRATH is poured out in ONE HOUR.
19. And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! For in ONE HOUR is she made desolate.
Remember earlier when I told you that the SILENCE is heaven for the space of HALF and HOUR represents the FIRST HALF of God's WRATH, because God remembers MERCY and lifts or more precisely suspends his WRATH only to be FINISHED at the END of the 1000 year reign of Jesus when FIRE comes down from heaven as DESTROYS all those who REBELLED against God. So IN ONE DAY means that AT the SECOND coming of Jesus, when Jesus comes as a THIEF in the night in FLAMING FIRE to execute the WRATH of God, only PART of God's WRATH is poured out, then at the END of the DAY or at the END of the 1000 years, when Satan is loosed to tempt the nation to rebel against God, the Almighty God will pour out the FINAL part of his WRATH to make and END of SIN and the TRANSGRESSIONS of his people.
SEVENTH example of the rapture: Revelation 20:4-6
"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and JUDGMENT was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were BEHEADED (or killed) for the witness of Jesus, AND for the word of God, and which had NOT worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they LIVED and REIGNED WITH Christ a thousand years.
In each and every one of these seven examples of the RAPTURE of the CHURCH the rapture takes place IMMEDIATELY AFTER the time of GREAT TRIBULATION and right BEFORE the WRATH of God is poured out, which matches EXACTLY with what WE, the CHURCH are taught in Matthew chapter 24.
Can you not see my dear brothers and sisters in the Lord, the ERROR of the FALSE PRE-tribulation doctrine? There is absolutely NO NEED to DEMAND that the ONE and ONLY SECOND coming of Jesus be DIVIDED into TWO SEPARATE and DISTINCT comings as being the ONLY WAY to harmonize those APPARENT contradictions in God's word, because those APPARENT contradictions are NOT contradiction at all when the word of TRUTH is RIGHTLY DIVIDED.
I would think by now those of you who have read this entire study up to this point have come to the knowledge of the TRUTH that the time of great tribulation is NOT the WRATH of God. Therefore the "LITTLE MOMENT is referring to the HOUR or more precisely the HALF and HOUR of God's WRATH of INDIGNATION and NOT the so called 7 years of great tribulation.
for ME, I believe the chamber here in Isaiah is speaking of a CHARIOT
of God that rides upon the clouds. In other words, for ME, I believe
God, Jesus and the ANGELS will not be just floating along in the
clouds, but RATHER they will be in the CHARIOTS of God. So what am I
saying? I am saying that Almighty God, the Father, his Son Jesus and
the ANGELS will be riding IN a FLYING VEHICLE, which in the day that
we now live would be called UFO'S. Please see the study "WHAT
does the BIBLE say about the YEAR 2012" for all the scriptures
that teach us about the CHARIOTS of Almighty God. But for now let us
continue with this study in God's word.
This line of reasoning has already been addressed.
BIBLE HERMENEUTICS (INTERPRETATION)--24 ELDERS DEFINED
ME, I personally believe that the 24 ELDERS represent the twelve
tribes of Israel AND the twelve apostles of the CHURCH. I have
already shown this earlier.
24 elders being a representation of the church and Israel does NOT
prove a PRE-tribulation rapture.
Same line or reasoning, nothing new so same as above, this does NOT prove a PRE-tribulation rapture.
same as above.
I believe that the 24 ELDERS represent the twelve tribes of ISRAEL
and the twelve apostles of the church, but this still does NOT prove
a PRE-tribulation rapture.
no NEW reason, just the SAME reason over and over.
STILL does NOT prove a PRE-tribulation rapture.
SAME as above.
The Elders wear “SPECIFIC” WHITE RAIMENT. The Church is promised
white garments. Revelation
That our garments (and ourselves) are to be washed and spotless are
seen in Ephesians
I believe that the 24 elders represent God's people Israel and the church and this representation of the twelve tribes of Israel and the twelve apostles of the church are before the throne of God, but this still does NOT prove a pre-tribulation rapture.
AGAIN I believe that the God's people are represented by the 24 elder that are before the throne. SAME reason over and over.
STILL does NOT prove a pre-tribulation rapture.
ME the word ELDERS means LEADERS. In other words, 12 of the ELDERS
are the LEADERS or HEADS of the 12 tribes of ISRAEL, which are part
of the Old Testament saints who ascended with Jesus to heaven, and
the other 12 ELDERS represent the 12 apostles of the church. I
believe the 24 ELDERS are REPRESENTATIVES of the church and Israel.
Again I believe the 24 ELDERS are representatives of the church and Israel.
absence of the 24 ELDERS does NOT prove a pre-tribulation rapture.
EVERY vision does not include EVERY detail of EVERY thing that is
before the throne of God, just like every account in the four gospels
do not contain the exact same details from one gospel to the next.
This does NOT prove a pre-tribulation rapture.
BIBLE HERMENEUTICS (INTERPRETATION)--GREAT MULTITUDE DEFINED
Here is what Revelation 7:9,10 actually says and teaches in it's CONTEXT. Please read Revelation 7:9-17, which says,
"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindred, and people, and tongues, stood BEFORE the THRONE, and BEFORE the Lamb, CLOTHED with WHITE ROBES, and palms in their hands;
14. And I said unto him, Sir, you know. And he said to me, These are they which CAME OUT of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have WASHED their robes, and made them white in the BLOOD of the Lamb.(sounds like the DEAD in CHRIST or the CHURCH to me)
15. THEREFORE (or for this REASON of making there garment WHITE in the BLOOD of Jesus) are they BEFORE the THRONE of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sits on the throne shall dwell among them.
To ME I do not see anything that prove that this great multitude that came OUT of great tribulation is NOT the CHURCH. All who wash their robes in the BLOOD of Jesus are part of the BODY of Christ and therefore are the CHURCH. I do not see Israel accepting Jesus DURING the time of great tribulation, because if they did, then they would no longer be Israel, but rather they would be part of the body of Christ or the CHURCH. I see Israel recognizing their Messiah Jesus AT his SECOND coming.
Yes, the saints of God sit upon THRONES but in the King James Version of the Bible Revelation 4:4 says that the 24 ELDERS sat upon SEATS. A DIFFERENCE? Perhaps, but NOT enough of a difference to DEMAND that there be a DIFFERENCE. Being a Post tribulation rapture believer, I would NOT even consider using this point to try and prove the TRUTH of a POST tribulation rapture of the CHURCH.
The PRE-tribulation point of view seem to dogmatically teach that the 24 ELDERS are the CHURCH and they ALSO dogmatically teach that the CHURCH is NOT found after Revelation chapter 4, until Revelation 19.
So then, what about Revelation 11:15-19 where the 24 ELDERS are seen?
"And the SEVENTH (or the LAST) angel SOUNDED; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16. And the FOUR and TWENTY ELDERS, which sat before God on their SEATS, fell upon their faces, and worshiped God, (so here again we see the 24 ELDERS sitting of SEATS rather than sitting on THRONES like the CHURCH. A DIFFERENCE? Again, PERHAPS, but a TRIVIAL difference to ME)
18. And the nations were angry (WHY?), and your WRATH IS COME, (remember that that the SEVENTH SEAL, the SEVENTH TRUMPET, and the SEVENTH VIAL are the WRATH of God. In other words, the WRATH of God is just now being poured out upon the world which is right after the RAPTURE of the CHURCH) and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that you should give reward unto your servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear your name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.
The ONLY time the 24 ELDERS are seen before the throne of God is AFTER the RAPTURE of the CHURCH. And in Revelation chapter 11 we CLEARLY seen a type, shadow or figure of the RAPTURE and right AFTER this RAPTURE we see the 24 ELDERS sitting on their SEATS before the throne of God just like in Revelation 4:4.
Bible teaches that the church sits on thrones, but in reality does
EVERY SINGLE BELIEVER get his own personal SEAT that is around the
throne of God to sit upon! For ME, I personally see sitting upon the
throne of Jesus as a position of AUTHORITY and NOT an ACTUAL THRONE
the EACH and EVERY believer SIT upon. The 24 ELDERS are ELDERS who I
believe are REPRESENTATIVES of Israel and the church. the 24 ELDERS
are NOT ALL of ISRAEL and ALL of the CHURCH, but RATHER they are 24
Another TRIVIAL difference, but since the author DEMANDS that there IS a DIFFERENCE, then we shall see if there is in fact a DIFFERENCE.
The Greek word "himation" that is TRANSLATED as "raiment" also means ROBE and GARMENT. And this SAME Greek word "himation" is used in Revelation 16:15,16, when Jesus comes as a THIEF to GATHER TOGETHER his CHURCH to the PLACE called ARMAGEDDON to fight against the armies that are fighting against Israel. But let us read the CONTEXT of this verse which is right in BETWEEN the pouring out of the SIXTH VIAL and the SEVENTH VIAL. Please read Revelation 16:12-19, which says,
13. I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to GATHER them (in other words these evil spirits GATHER together that nations to fight against God's people) to the BATTLE of that GREAT DAY of God Almighty (speaking of that great and notable DAY of the Lord when the WRATH of Almighty God is poured out. Remember Jesus said when you SEE the ABOMINATION or DESOLATION or when you SEE ARMIES surrounding Jerusalem ready to make her DESOLATE).
15. Behold, I come as a THIEF. Blessed is he that watches, and keeps his GARMENTS (the SAME EXACT Greek word that is translated as raiment for the ELDERS is used here and translated as GARMENTS, it is the SAME THING), lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
17. And the SEVENTH angel poured out his VIAL (RIGHT AFTER the RAPTURE and the GATHERING TOGETHER of the CHURCH) into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.(the MYSTERY of the dead in Christ rising and our CHANGE in a MOMENT and a TWINKLING of an eye is FINISHED when the LAST TRUMPET shall sound)
19. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his WRATH."
ME, this argument is trivial. Garment, robe, raiment is all the same
thing. The point is that they are WHITE which represents
RIGHTEOUSNESS. So to ME this does NOT prove a PRE-tribulation
if the author DEMANDS that the Greek word "himation" is
SPECIFICALLY meant for the 24 ELDERS and NOT for those who CAME OUT
of GREAT TRIBULATION, then how does one explain this SAME EXACT Greek
word "himation" being used for those SAINTS being GATHERED
TOGETHER by Jesus when he come AT the SECOND coming as a THIEF?
Again, these differences that this author is pointing out are TRIVIAL
and do NOT prove a PRE-tribulation rapture.
FOLLOWERS of Jesus are the ones who laid down the PALM branches
before Jesus. Israel as a whole did NOT FOLLOW Jesus. Many of the
Scribes and Pharisees did NOT FOLLOW Jesus. So to say that the PALM
branches in their hands of these SAINTS who are before the throne
because they have washed their robes in the BLOOD of the Lamb
automatically disqualifies them as being a part of the body of Christ
is ridiculous. When did ISRAEL ever wash their robes in the BLOOD of
the Lamb? Yes, those who WERE at one time ISRAEL who went away for
Israel to FOLLOW Jesus washed their robes in the BLOOD of the Jesus,
but the moment they did they became part of the body of Christ, the
In Revelation 15:2-4 we read where those who CAME OUT of GREAT TRIBULATION and who had gotten VICTORY over the BEAST and the MARK of the beast, SANG.
"And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the BEAST, and over his IMAGE, and over his MARK, and over the NUMBER of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
To ME, crying with a LOUD voice could be interpreted as PRAISING God. A SHOUT of PRAISE. SHOUT HALLELUIA. Again this argument that there is a DIFFERENCE between CRYING with a LOUD VOICE and SINGING a new SONG is TRIVIAL and does NOT prove a PRE-tribulation rapture.
Now if one is looking for a passage of scripture to show ISRAEL, then Revelation 14:1-6 would be my choice.
3. And THEY SUNG as it were a NEW song BEFORE the throne, and BEFORE the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth."
So clearly these 144,000 are NOT the ELDERS, because they SANG this NEW song BEFORE the throne and BEFORE the ELDERS and the four beasts. So then, the ELDERS SING a SONG. Those who come OUT of GREAT TRIBULATION SING a SONG. And ISRAEL SINGS a SONG. Shouting, crying, singing, praising, to ME, there is NO significant DIFFERENCE.
You see my dear
brothers and sisters in the Lord, the phrase "BEFORE the THRONE"
does NOT always mean that the THRONE is IN HEAVEN. Yes, it is God's
THRONE, but when Jesus comes back Almighty God the Father is coming
WITH his Son. Not all the way to the surface of the Earth as I see
it, but the tabernacle of Almighty God, his THRONE, will hover above
Jerusalem. It is the NEW JERUSALEM as I see it, and will not come
DOWN to the Earth, UNTIL the END of the 1000 year reign when an END
to SIN has been accomplished and DEATH has been cast into the lake of
fire, the Almighty God will create a NEW heavens and a NEW Earth and
the TABERNACLE of God will come DOWN to the NEW Earth and Almighty
God HIMSELF will wipe away all our tears.
This is based on the ASSUMPTION that the PRE-tribulation rapture is the TRUTH, but CLEARLY it is NOT the TRUTH of the WHOLE word of God.
I have CLEARLY shown that those who CAME OUT od GREAT tribulation are
PART of the body of Christ, because ALL who ACCEPT Jesus as their
savior are then WASHED in the BLOOD of the LAMB and become the
TRUTH of the matter is that we ALL SERVE God, the 24 ELDERS INCLUDED.
As I said before not every passage of scripture that is clearly
speaking of the SAME thing does not always give EVERY SINGLE DETAIL
in EVERY SINGLE passage of scripture. The four gospels are a good
example of this ABSENCE of DETAIL in EVERY place. So to ME, this
Then what about the CHURCH mentioned in Revelation 21:1-5 which says,
3. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the TABERNACLE of God is WITH men, and he (Almighty God himself) will dwell WITH them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
So to say that the CHURCH does not get there TEARS WIPED AWAY just to TRY an proved a PRE-tribulation rapture is a bit far to ME any way. What about all those early church believers who were MARTYRED that did not make it to this SO CALLED PRE-tribulation rapture in order to ESCAPE TRIBUTALION.
If you can not see by now that this teaching of a PRE-tribulation rapture is a FALSE teaching then I IMPLORE you to keep reading, because this FABLE of a rapture that occurs BEFORE the time of GREAT TRIBULATION is NOT going to happen. It is a FALSE HOPE, a FABLE, a DECEPTION of the enemy to catch believers off guard.
BIBLE HERMENEUTICS (INTERPRETATION)--A GROUP IN REVELATION 15
Of course those that teach this FALSE doctrine would make this CLAIM, but in TRUTH TWO songs are heard from this GROUP. SOME are singing the song of MOSES, which I see as perhaps Messianic Jews, those of Israel who became followers of Jesus. And some other sang the song of the LAMB, which to ME, DEFINITELY describes the CHURCH that has gone TRHOUGH the time of GREAT TRIBULATION.
to me is a PURIFIER. TRIED in the FIRE of the furnace seven times.
James says to the CHURCH think it NOT STRANGE the FIERY TRIAL that is
to TRY YOU.
AGAIN this is based upon the ASSUMPTION that the church will be caught up BEFORE the time of GREAT TRIBULATION.
in TRUTH the CHURCH will be here ON the Earth through the ENTIRE
period of great tribulation. So I IMPLORE you to prepare your heart
toward God and geat serious about getting SIN out of your life.
Well CLEARLY Revelation 4:8 teaches us the TRUTH and that is the EVERY ONE of the 24 ELDER hard HARPS.
"And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and FOUR and TWENTY elders fell down before the Lamb, having EVERY ONE OF THEM HARPS, and golden vials full of odors, which are the prayers of saints."
184. The group before the throne, in Revelation 15:1-8, SING THE SONG OF MOSES--which again shows the Israeli and Old Testament emphasis. The 24 ELDERS of the Church SING A NEW SONG of their REDEMPTION through the blood of Jesus(obtained during the age of God’s GRACE in the Church).
when the WHOLE CONTEXT is read you will see that this group or at
least some of this group sang the song of the LAMB, which to ME
clearly describes the CHURCH and NOT Israel.
NATURE OF THE TRIBULATION
While it is true that Jesus said this time of great tribulation would be like no other time, I have to expound a little. It is true that there has always been earthquakes, drought, famine, sickness, disease, pestilence, floods, hurricanes, wars and rumors of war, it seems as if there are MORE in these last days than ever before. CLOSER, more severe, more people dying, so then the frequency of these catastrophic event as well as the intensity is increasing.
Likewise persecution has been present in the church since it's beginning. And during different periods of history many THOUGHT that the DAY of the Lord was AT HAND because of the massive amount and severity of the persecution. So to make LIGHT of the PERSECUTION of the church by using the word "GENERAL" to ME makes all the persecution the church has gone through as MILD tribulation COMPARED to the GREAT TRIBULATION, when to ME it is NOT.
Burning alive is pretty intense tribulation if you ask me. Being torn asunder, again pretty intense. So then, what I believe Jesus meant was that this persecution or tribulation would be more wide spread throughout the church. But the word of God assure us that we will love our lives NOT unto death. Oh death were is your sting. We are assure that God will give his people PEACE. Also all this persecution couple with all the earthquakes and wars, and famines all together is what make it like no other time in history.
I agree that some of Israel will repent and follow Jesus during the time of great tribulation, but the main REMNANT that turns to the Lord in the last days will be AT his SECOND coming when Jesus comes as a CONQUERING KING.
ME, I see the time of great tribulation as a 3 1/2 year period of
time, 42 months, or 1260 days.
I said before the FIRST SIX SEALS, the FIRST SIX TRUMPETS, and the
FIRST SIX VIALS are OPENED, SOUNDED, and POURED OUT DURING the time
of GREAT TRIBULATION and the SEVENTH of all of these is the WRATH of
189. Understanding the “birth pangs” symbol. The START of the “tribulation” brings the earth into ACTUAL LABOR. Then WHY do we see “birth pang” SIGNS right now, Pre-Trib? Remember that a pregnant woman KNOWS her labor is “near” WELL BEFORE the ACTUAL ONSET of it. The world of today is exceedingly swollen in pregnancy--ready to give birth the Kingdom of Jesus Christ. Like a woman may have Braxton Hicks pains, contractions that are NOT ACTUAL LABOR--so also, we see the world doing the same thing (as the ACTUAL LABOR of the “tribulation” draws VERY NEAR). Every time an earthquake hits, which had been DAILY here lately, I think, “Oh, here’s another Braxton Hicks, and my bags are packed--I’m ready to move out of here.”
ME, the pangs are the early SIGNS that the coming of the Lord is
near. And the CLOSER the contractions get, the NEARER we are to the
BIRTH, when ISRAEL shall bring forth her child, so to speak. In other
words, the actual birth of Israel will be when Israel RECOGNIZES
their MESSIAH when the SEE his coming as a CONQUERING KING to DELIVER
them from the ARMIES that are trying to wipe them off the face of the
For ME, the abomination of desolation is Jerusalem surround by ARMIES awaiting to be made desolate. Please read Luke 21:20,21, which right BEFORE we see those who are in Judea we see that Jerusalem is SURROUNDED by ARMIES.
"And when ye shall SEE Jerusalem COMPASSED with ARMIES, then KNOW that the DESOLATION thereof is nigh.
Then in Matthew 24 we see almost the exact same wording only we see the words "ABOMINATION of DESOLATION where is Luke we see,
when ye shall SEE Jerusalem COMPASSED with ARMIES, then KNOW that the
DESOLATION thereof is nigh."
The SIMPLE chronological order of events are this:
Great tribulation SIGNS in the sun, moon, and stars, rapture, then wrath, then 1000 year, final deceiving of the nation, final part of God's wrath. complete end of sin and death, then ages to come for all eternity.
Of course there will be all the SIGNS spoken of in Matthew 24 and the corresponding gospels, which we may be seeing in the world today. However ALL these signs will not be justt in the last decade but for several decades.
One of this first undeniable SIGNS of the APPROACHING day of our Lords return is the abomination of desolation, which is when Jerusalem will be surrounded by armies that want to totally destroy her and God's people as well. I Personally see ISLAM involved in her destruction.
Another sign in NO RAIN in the area of Jerusalem for three and a half years.
Of course there will be great persecution of God's people, both the church and Israel. And when is gets to the point when is looks to some as if Jesus is NOT coming again and there is a great falling away or turning away from believing if God, particularly when many are teaching that there is NO God and that ALIENS were just mistaken as gods, then know that his return is drawing closer.
But some of the last SIGNS we will see right BEFORE the RPTURE of the church are these SIGNS in the SUN and the MOON and the STARS. So if you really what to know what these SIGNS shall be, then get into the word of TRUTH and search. Ask God for help to understand and then BELIEVE that the Holy Spirit will GUIDE and LEAD YOU into ALL TRUTH.
Then right AFTER these SIGNS is the RAPTURE and right after the GATHERING TOGETHER of the CHURCH is the WRATH of God, and then when God remembers MERCY and lift his WRATH those who called upon the name of the Lord are were SAVED or kept alive will go into the 1000 years in their MORTAL bodies along with the 144,000 sealed of Israel where Jesus and his new wife the church will teach them about God. Then at the end of the 1000 years Satan wil be turned loose and allowed to tempt the nation one final time to prove tos him and all the angels that they were created PERFECT in the day that they were created and mankind being create INFERIOR to them lived without sin, therefore God is JUST in casting ALL who SIN into the lake of fire to be destroyed.
Jesus commits his Father kingdom back into his Father's hand and we
move on into ages to come where your GUESS is as good as mine.
There is ONE and ONLY ONE SECOND coming of Jesus, that is why the Bible just teaches us that Jesus will come a SECOND time and NOT Jesus will come a SECOND time and then 7 years later he will come a THIRD time. NO my dear brothers and sisters in the Lord, the word of God is NOT COMPLICATED or hard to understand, but because of FALSE doctrines MAN has made it difficult for some to LET GO of what they have been previously TAUGHT.
you must let go of the LIE so that you can SEE and UNDERSTAND the
TRUTH of the WHOLE word of God.
Tribulation is also to try the church. God in his plan for the church has included SUFFERING for the name of Jesus.
Here is what Zephanian 1:14,15 ACTUALLY says,
"The great day of the LORD is near (speaking of the day of WRATH), it is near, and hastens greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
15. That day (referring to the GREAT DAY of the Lord) is a day of WRATH, a day of trouble and distress, a day of waste and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,"
This MISGUIDED belief that the time of GREAT TRIBULATION is the WRATH of Almighty God is perhaps the biggest STUMBLING blocks for those who teach the PRE-tribulation rapture of the church. So AGAIN I say, The time or period of GREAT TRIBULATION is NOT the WRATH of God.
Now I know that I have ALREADY shown you this TRUTH earlier in this study of God's word several times, but for some you need to hear it again. Acts 2:20 CLEARLY teaches us that there shall be SIGNS in the SUN and in the MOON that will occur BEFORE that great and notable DAY of the Lord, which is when the WRATH of God is poured out. Then in Matthew 24:29-31 we are CLEARLY and PLAINLY taught by Jesus himself that IMMEDIATELY AFTER the time of great tribulation there shall be these SAME EXACT SIGNS in the SUn and the MOON and the STARS. And then right in the MIDDLE right BETWEEN these SIGNS and the WRATH of God when see the SIGN of the SECOND coming of Jesus to GATHER TOGETHER his ELECT of his CHOSEN ones. And you do KNOW that the ONLY ONES that Jesus will CHOOSE are those who are READY, and I do mean by READY that Jesus will ONLY CHOOSE those who have NO SIN in their life at that moment Jesus return in a twinkling of and eye, so QUICKLY will our CHANGE be that there will be NO time to repent, so WATCH for the SIGNS so that you will KNOW that the hour of his return is NIGH AT HAND so that you can be all that MUCH MORE diligent to KEEP yourself from SIN.
Put AWAY this FALSE HOPE of a PRE-tribulation ESCAPISM FALSE doctrine, and ENDUE SOUND DOCTRINE as the Bible teaches us that many in the last day would NOT do because they want to hear that which is PLEASANT to hear. Therefore the heap to themselves TEACHERS, books, websites, radio programs and other like believers who will TICKLE their ear with this FABLE.
to reason 194
to reason 194
This is because those who teach the PRE-tribulation doctrine have NOT DISCERN how to read and UNDERSTAND the book of Revelation. You simple CANNOT read the events foretold to us as taking place one right after the other, because then there would be many raptures and many time that the wrath of God is poured out. The book of Revelation REPEATS itself over and over. THEREFORE the great tribulation just not not begin with revelation chapter 6 with the opening of the seals. But ALSO the great tribulation BEGINS with the sounding of the TRUMPETS. And AGAIN the great tribulation BEGINS with the pouring put to the VIALS.
a hold of this TRUTH and the book of revelation will begin to open up
NATURE OF THE TRIBULATION--THE SEVEN-SEALED SCROLL
This statement is somewhat true, but it is NOT the WHOLE TRUTH, because as I just said the great tribulation begins ALSO with the first six TRUMPETS and then BEGINS AGIAN with the first six VIALS.
idea of being days as USUAL have misguided some to believe that it
has to be days as USUAL for every single person on the Earth, when in
reality when Jesus said that people would be marrying and eating and
drinking right up to the day that THEY are destroyed. And this is
TRUE, because some are SO BLINDED by the enemy that they say that the
is NO GOD, therefore they will not listen to the warnings we give
them. Just like the people that were WILLINGLY IGNORANT in the days
of Noah. So it is THESE who are WILLINGLY IGNORANT that will be going
about as days a USUAL, but WE will KNOW that these days are NOT like
any other days, because we are WATCHING for the SIGNS of the coming
of our Lord.
Then again in Revelation 9:13-16 we read were one third of men are killed. So in the line of reasoning of those that teach the PRE-tribulation point of view, then one fourth of mankind will be killed and then a little later on in the period of great tribulation ANOTHER one third of I suppose of this remaining one fourth will be killed, which would be even a much lager number being killed. But for ME, I see the book of Revelation REPEATING itself and giving more detail each time it repeats itself.
as far a business as usual, those willingly choosing to believe that
there is NO God will be given a strong delusion that THEY should
believe a LIE.
will be no true peace on Earth until the 1000 year reign of Jesus.
For me when the Bible says and when they shall say peace and safety,
then sudden destruction shall come upon them, I see this as a time
when there is NOT peace and safety and mankind is crying out for
peace and safety, but rather will get more destruction until God
Again the first six SEAL are just part of the great tribulation. Or more precisely they are just an OVERVIEW of the great tribulation, whereas the first six trumpets are a magnification of the first six seals so that we can see more detail. And then the first six vials are yet a further magnification to see even more detail.
PERHAPS the scroll is written on both sides, because some of the things written in the book of Revelation will NOT come upon the CHURCH as it does upon the rest of the world.
me I see some PROTECTION for the CHURCH, but this does not mean that
the church will not be persecuted. Probably more so when the world
see diseases coming upon them and NOT upon those in the CHURCH who
are living righteously before God.
one makes EVERY judgment the WRATH of God, then the knowledge of the
TRUTH cannot be discerned. So AGAIN JUDGMENT MUST BEGIN at the HOUSE
of God, which is US the CHURCH, because the word of God says, and if
it BEGIN with US, then what shall be the end of those who do not know
For ME, I see this passage of scripture of those making a COVENANT or and agreement with hell as the invading ARMIES that are trying to rule over the world including wiping out God's people.
Here is what this passage of scripture actually says and teaches when KEPT in it's CONTEXT. Please read Isaiah chapter 28 verse 14-18, which says,
15. Because YOU have said (still God speaking to these SCORNFUL men who are BOASTING), WE have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement;(THEREFORE) when the over flowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto US: for WE have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have WE HID ourselves: (now to me those who are being DECEIVE do not KNOW that they are UNDER FALSEHOOD, this is just God show US who KNOW the TRUTH that those who trust is chariots will perish and those that HIDE themselves in underground bunkers are just hiding themselves under FALSEHOOD)
For ME, I see Jesus coming as a CONQUERING KING to TRODDEN DOWN the ARMIES that are trying to wipe the people of God from the face of the Earth. It will be those SCORNFUL men who say that there IS NO GOD that make THEIR COVENANT with death and THEIR AGREEMENT with HELL who shall be BOASTING that NOTHING can touch us in our DEEP UNDERGROUND BUNKERS that can withstand an atomic war, but God will LAUGH at them and THEIR COVENANT will NOT STAND.
for ME I do not see this referring to ISRAEL, but RATHER I see this
passage of scripture referring to those who RULE OVER Israel in the
AGAIN this statement
is based upon WRONG ASSUMPTIONS, which I trust that you, the reader,
have CLEARLY seen by now. But if not then I IMPLORE you to keep
reading, for I will explain the seal in a moment
Yes, when the sixth seal is opened the people will KNOW that the WRATH of God is COMING upon them and the verse goes on to say and who SHALL be ABLE to stand?, which teaches us that that WRATH of God is JUST NOW BEGINNING. The WRATH of God COMES in the SEVENTH SEAL, in the SEVENTH TRUMPET, and in the SEVENTH VIAL. And the CHURCH is NOT appointed to the SEVENTH, which is the WRATH of God, but the FIRST SIX we will be here to ENDURE persecution for the name of Jesus. Please read Job 5:17-24 which teaches us that in SIX troubles God will DELIVER us through them, but is SEVEN it shall NOT come near us.
19. He shall DELIVER YOU in SIX troubles: yea, in SEVEN there shall no evil touch YOU. (now for ME this has to be speaking to US the CHURCH, because CLEARLY Israel will suffer in the SEVENTH or in SEVEN evil will touch ISRAEL, but NOT the CHURCH)
God is calling his people everywhere to REPENT and get ALL SIN out of our lives. Please read the study "HOW to live YOUR life WITHOUT SIN" where I show you from the word of TRUTH the Holy Bible HOW to live YOUR live WITHOUT SIN and be PURE EVEN as Jesus is pure.
Throughout the book of Revelation John HEARS things and John SEES things and sometimes when we see words like after this I saw, or AND I saw, then this indicates to us, the reader, that John is telling us something DIFFERENT. This is not always the case, so there is room for many INTERPRETATIONS. So for ME, I see John in verse 2 CHANGING the subject from the SEVENTH SEAL to INTRODUCING a NEW subject, which in reality is the SAME subject that he told us about in the SEVEN SEALS. NOT just the SEVENTH seal but RATHER ALL of the SEALS. In other words John is REPEARTING the seven SEAL by showing us the SEVEN TRUMPETS.
2O9. Likewise, the “bowl judgments” PROCEED from THE BLOWING of the 7th TRUMPET (MAKE NOTE--with so much PARENTHETICAL information from chapter 11 to 16, it’s DIFFICULT to SEE that progression, but it’s there if you pay CLOSE ATTENTION to detail).
AGAIN this is this writers INTERPRETAION, this is the way that SHE INTERPRETS the Bible. I have my way and she has HER way. And I leave it up to YOU to DISCERN the TRUTH by CLOSELY examining BOTH ways.
is kind of like when people say I do NOT believe is God and I do NOT
believe in HELL, and we say back to them something like, Well IF I am
wrong then I have NOTHING to LOSE, BUT if YOU are WRONG then you have
a great price to pay. Same thing is true for those who DEMAND that
they do NOT believe in the POST tribulation teaching. So I say Hey IF
I am wrong then I have NOTHING to LOSE, but YOU n the other hand, if
YOU are WRONG, will you be READY to face what is coming. Or will you
just CLING to your FALSE hope of saying See ya, wouldn't want to be
ya! Or will you TAKE HEED to what I am teaching you so that you can
prepare your heart toward God. Forgive me if I come off to you as
being crude of rude, this is not my intention. I just want you to be
prepared, because just like you yourself KNOW that there is a God and
that there is a hell, so do I KNOW that there is NOT going to be a
PRE tribulation rapture of the church in order to ESCAPE the time of
GREAT TRIBULATION and I want you to be PREPARED. To ME, this is NOT a
matter of who is right and who is wrong, NOT a matter between us and
those who say that there is NO GOD. We just want them to KNOW that
there IS a God because we want them to be PREPARE when that face the
and think for a moment, IF EVERYTHING from the OPENING of the FIRST
SEAL to the end of the book was the WRATH of God as this author
CLAIMS, the what portion of this book of Revelation is the time of
GREAT TRIBULATION, because I have already show you CLEARLY that the
time of great tribulation is NOT the WRATH of God.
NATURE OF THE TRIBULATION--THE ENDING JUDGMENTS
understand this verse you must know that TWO DIFFERENT Greeks word
are used in the New Testament that are often TRANSLATED as wrath, but
one of these words is used more in the sense of anger of man.
Sometimes BOTH of the Greeks words are used TOGETHER in the same
verse like in Revelation 16:19 in the phrase "the FIERCENESS of
his WRATH. You see the EXACT same Greek word that is translated as
"FIERCENSS" in Revelation 16:19 is also TRANSLATED as
"WRATH" in Revelation 15:1, when it should have been
translated as "FIERCENESS". So in other words Revelation
should read, "...for in them is filled up the FIERCENESS of
Almighty God." You see if this Greek word was translated as
"WRATH" in every instance, then Revelation 16:19 word read,
"...the WRATH of his WRATH." which would be
agree that NO other time will be like it and one of the reasons I
believe is because the WRATH of Almighty God is poured out
IMMEDIATELY AFTER the time of GREAT TRIBULATION, so there will be TWO
devastating events back to back with virtually no intermission in
between to catch your breath, so to speak. Except for the CHURCH who
is NOT APPOINTED to the WRATH of God.
AGAIN, as I have said many times before not EVERY passage of scripture that is speaking about the SAME thing give EVERY DETAIL exactly the SAME. Therefore in order to RIGHTLY DIVIDE the word of TRUTH you must COMPARE scripture WITH scripture. For example, there is CLEARLY a RESSURECTION that takes place AT the ONE and ONLY SECOND coming of Jesus which we are CLEARLY and PLAINLY told about in SIMPLE easy to understand words in Revelation 20:4-6. And these SAINTS who have gone TRHOUGH the time of GREAT TRIBULATION who did NOT worship the beast nor receive his mark and were BEHEADED of KILLED for their testimony of Jesus will be RESURRECTED AT the SECOND coming of Jesus and will be given ETERNAL LIFE as their REWARD and THEY shall LIVE and REIGN WITH Jesus for 1000 years. So how can anyone DENY that there is a RESURRECTION in Matthew 24 just because we are not SPECIFICALLY told EVERY TIME in EVERY passage of scripture?
Sometimes I have to wonder if these reason are just made up in a desperate attempt to hold on to a FABLE because they do not want to ENDURE SOUND DOCTRINE.
UNBIBLICAL statement is based upon the exaggerated stories about
being LEFT BEHIND and how BAD it will be. Again I am NOT making light
of the time of great tribulation, but the WHOLE word of God clearly
teaches that NOT EVERY one will be KILLED during this time. For a
deeper understanding on WHO will go into the Millennium please view
my video called "WHO WILL POPULATE THE MELLINNIUM?", which
is on my channel AMATTEROFTRUTH at YouTube.com
have already covered this reason earlier in this study. The TRUTH of
the matter is that Jesus SENDS his ANGELS to GATHER TOGETHER his
ELECT and then bring US to MEET him at the PLACE called
Here is what Matthew 24:30,31 actually says and teaches.
"And then shall appear the SIGN of the Son of man in HEAVEN (speaking of in the AIR or in the SKY): and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall SEE the Son of man coming in the CLOUDS of HEAVEN (or they shall SEE Jesus in the CLOUDS that are in the SKY coming) with power and great glory.
31. And he (JESUS) shall SEND his angels with a great sound of a TRUMPET, and they shall GATHER TOGETHER his ELECT (or those whom he has CHOOSEN because they are without sin in their life) from the four WINDS, from ONE END of HEAVEN to the other."
First of all Isaiah 63:1 is speaking of Jesus treading the wine press in the WRATH of God, which meane that the rapture has ALREADY just taken place.
Now as for Matthew 24 this tells ME that since every other time to word HEAVEN means the SKY where the CLOUDS are, then when the angel gather together the ELECT they will GATHER US, the CHURCH from ONE end of the SKY to the OTHER END of the SKY and then bring US all TOGETHER to MEET Jesus in the AIR just like we are told in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.
The Old Testament saints are already IN heaven and they are AMONG the SAINTS that God will BRING WITH him when Jesus comes again, so there will be no need to gather together these saints, because they will already be together.
Now I cannot tell you HOW God is going to bring dead decayed bodies out of their graves and put they back together and match them up with the correct saint and then change these newly resurrected bodies into eternal bodies, but I believe he will, because Ezekiel 37 says that he will.
9. Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the WIND, prophesy, son of man, and say to the WIND, Thus says the Lord GOD; Come FROM the FOUR WINDS, O BREATH, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live. (so then, God BRINGS WITH HIM the SPIRITS of those who were slain for the word of God and places these SPIRITS of the SAINTS into these newly RESURRECTED bodies and causes them to LIVE.)
10. So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived , and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
Now we are not SPECIFICALLY told in scripture to my knowledge that this is the way it will be ALSO for the DEAD in CHRIST, but again we are not told EVERY LITTLE DETAIL in EVERY passage of scripture. But seeing this passage of scripture id speaking of a RESURRECTION then I believe the resurrection for the CHURCH will be much the same way, but for certain the CHURCH is PROMISE the REWARD of ETERNAL LIFE or a body that does not die or become corrupted.
me I see a partial separating of the sheep and goats before going in
to the 1000 years, but in reality I see this separating of sheep and
goat THROUGHOUT the entire 1000 years and PARTICULARLY at the END of
the 1000 years when ANOTHER book of life in OPENED.
one of the biggest STUMBLING blocks for those that teach the FALSE
doctrine of a PRE-tribulation rapture is that they have failed to
DISCERN the DIFFERENCE between the time of GREAT TRIBULATION and the
WRATH of Almighty God.
TRUMPS OF GOD AND THE “LAST” TRUMPET
order to RIGHTLY DIVIDE the word of TRUTH you must COMPARE scripture
WITH scripture. In other words, we must let scripture interpret scripture.
Now SIMPLE logic teaches us that if you have SEVEN trumpets that the LAST TRUMPET will OBVIOUSLY be the SEVENTH TRUMPET.
But let us lay SIMPLE logic aside for a moment, unless of course we are COMPARING scripture WITH scripture.
Let us begin by reading 1 Corinthians 15:51-53, which teaches us that our CHANGE will come AT the sounding of the LAST TRUMPET!
"Behold, I show you a MYSTERY (so then WHAT is this MYSTERY that Paul is SHOWING to US the prophets and servants of God?); We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, (HOW and WHEN will this MYSTERY of our CHANGE take place?)
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, (so now we know that our CHANGE will take place QUIKLY, but WHEN will our CHANGE take place?) AT the LAST TRUMP: FOR (or BECAUSE) the TRUMPET shall SOUND, (WHAT TRUMPET shall SOUND? The LAST TRUMPET shall SOUND) and the dead shall be RAISED (or RESURRECTED) incorruptible, and we shall be CHANGED. (but WHAT is our CHANGE exactly?)
So now let us COMPARE scripture WITH scripture in order to see if the SEVENTH TRUMPET which SIMPLE LOGIC teaches us is the LAST TRUMPET, but let us see what the WORD of TRUTH teaches us. Please read Revelation 10:7, which teaches us that on the very moment that the SEVENTH TRUMPET BEGINS to SOUND then the MYSTERY which was told to the prophet and servants of God would be FINISHED or COMPLETED.
"But in the days of the voice of the SEVENTH angel, when he shall BEGIN to SOUND, the MYSTERY of God should be FINISHED, as he has declared (or SHOWN) to his servants the prophets."
Much more than a MERE COINCIDENCE for ME just to IGNORE because my FLESH did not want to ENDURE SOUND DOCTRINE at the time that I came to the knowledge of the TRUTH concerning WHEN the RAPTURE of the church would take place.
You see I was TAUGHT the PRE-tribulation view, but when the Holy Spirit began showing me DISCREPENCIES, TOO MANY to IGNOR, then I search the word of God for myself I discover that I was NOT taught the TRUTH.
So now let us see what actually happen AT the time that the LAST TRUMPET is SOUNDED. Please read Revelation 11:11-19 which is where we see a resurrection and a type of figure of the rapture or catching up and AT this SAME time we also see the SOUNDING of the LAST TRUMPET.
12. And they heard a GREAT VOICE from heaven saying unto them, COME UP HITHER. And they ASCENDED UP to heaven (speaking of the SKY) in a CLOUD (a description of the RAPTURE); and their enemies beheld them.
13. And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were frightened, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
15. And the SEVENTH angel SOUNDED (or the LAST TRUMPET was SOUNDED); and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall REIGN for ever and ever.
18. And the nations were ANGRY (WHY?), and you WRATH IS COME, and the TIME of the dead, that they should be judged, and that you should give REWARD unto your servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear your name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.
So then, CLEARLY we see the RESURRECTION of the DEAD IN CHRIST, the RAPTURE taking place AT the TIME that the SEVENTH and LAST TRUMPET is BEGINNING to SOUND.
DEFINITELY NOT a COINICIDENC! At least NOT for ME.
I am sure that ALL of the Old Testament was NOT WRITTEN at the EXACT
SAME TIME, but YET all the books of the Old Testament harmonize
together, and I do not thing the Holy Spirit has failed us in the New
Testament. You have to remember that John was being told what to
write, therefore it was REVEALED to John what to write.
I suppose one will see what they WANT to see, unless of course they are willing to submit to the teaching of the Holy Spirit, and then they may not truly WANT to know the TRUTH, but they will submit themselves to ENDURE SOUND DOCTRINE.
All through the word of TRUTH a TRUMPET is used to SOUND and ALARM or to ANNOUNCE an event, or to SIGNAL something or someone. So whenever the trumpet is used there can be BOTH good things and bad things happening at the SAME time. Just give it a moment and THINK about it. If a trumpet os alarm was sounded people would be warned and lives saved, but just sounding the trumpet does not stop the invading army.
ME I easily see Almighty God being ABLE to deal with the CHURCH at
the SAME TIME that he deals with ISRAEL. Did God not LEAVE Israel ON
the Earth when he turned to the GENTILES to extend his plan of
salvation? So WHY then does the PRE-tribulation doctrine DEMAND that
the CHURCH CANNOT be hear while God deals with Israel? There is NO
lose of DISTINCTION if BOTH are here ON the Earth at the SAME
SENT the ANGELS?
AGAIN WHEN of AT the TIME that the LAST TRUMPET is SOUNDED this does NOT mean that ONLY judgments and the WRATH of God can take place. Remember our CHANGE only takes a SPLIT SECOND of time.
just thing how GLORIOUS it will be to be RESCUED just in the nick of
time. I mean you can not really appreciate something till you were
THAT CLOSE to losing it.
it is for BOTH.
and over with the SAME line of reason. AT the MOMENT that the LAST
TRUMPET BEGINS to SOUND in the book of Revelation is for BOTH the
CHURCH and for the WORLD. The CHURCH shall be RAPTURED and those in
the WORLD who REPENT and CALL upon the Lord shall be SAVED, and THEN
the WRATH od Almighty God will be poured out upon the ungodly and
those who disobey the gospel of Jesus Christ.
GRACE does NOT ABRUPTLY END at the moment of the RAPTURE, because if
it did the God would not remember MERCY.
Israel the NATURAL OLIVE branch was CUT off and WE were GRAFTED IN it
was SEVERITY on THEIR PART but JOY on OUR PART. So in the SAME WAY
the LAST TRUMPET will be JOY on OUR PART and SEVERITY on THEIR
AGAIN EVERY verse does NOT give EVERY DETAIL. And yes Jesus was IN HEAVEN when John RECEIVED the REVELATION of Jesus Christ. However, WHEN this event happens Jesus will be IN the CLOUDS and we will ASCEND UP into the CLOUDS be GATHERED TOGETHER to MEET Jesus IN the AIR and EVERY EYE shall SEE us. Remember in Acts that the angels said IN LIKE MANNER, NOT EXACTLY, but IN LIKE MANNER as you SEE Jesus being RECEIVED UP into the CLOUDS so shall he COME.
reason to ME sounds like ANY SCRAP or SHED that can be USED in order
NOT to ENDURE SOUND DOCTRINE and CLING to the FABLE of a
PRE-tribulation rapture in order to ESCAPE suffering. If you begin to
look at SUFFERING for JESUS as an HONOR the fear that grips you will
lift and you will receive PEACE.
WHY NOT? Is this statement of DENIAL a valid reason, or a non acceptance of the TRUTH?
if an ATHIEST says there just CANNOT be a God, you would be going WHY
NOT? The TRUTH of the matter is that the is NO NEED to DIVIDE the ONE
and ONLY SECOND coming into TWO SEPARATE and DISTINCT coming as being
the ONLY WAY to harmonize the APPARENT contradictions in God's word,
because ALL the scriptures HARMONIZE quite well when the word of
TRUTH is RIGHTY DIVIDED and is NOT TWISTED and CHANGED to FIT what we
WANT to believe.
THERE’S MORE! USES OF TRUMPETS DEFINED
Good analogy. Now show me HOW this ties in to the MYSTERY of God being FINISHED. Make some connection other than the analogy of MOVING OUT. I believe this passage says they shall move forward into battle.
Show us something in these verses that relate to a RESURRECTION, or a GOING UP. Some points to consider is that these trumpets were blown by MEN and the LAST TRUMPET is the trumpet of God. 1 Corinthians does NOT specifically say WHO SOUNDS the TRUMPET of God, but in Revelation we see that it was the SEVENTH ANGEL who SOUND the LAST TRUMPET.
Paul and the other disciples of Jesus TAUGHT what they were TAUGHT by our Lord. Perhaps Paul in one of his REVELATIONS was TAUGHT about the LAST TRUMPET and I am sure if it were a SIGNIFICANT teaching in the Old testament that Paul would have QUOTED the passage that spoke of this LAST TRUMPET, but I do not find any where that Paul QUOTED any such passage. I am not trying to be rude, but the word LAST is a very SIMPLE and EASY to UNDERSTAND word. LAST means AFTER ALL OTHERS.
Therefore the LAST TRUMPET to SOUND will be AFTER ALL OTHER TRUMPETS have SOUNDED! So IF the PRE-tribulation were TRUE and the trumpet shall sound and the dead shall be raised OCCURS BEFORE the time of GREAT TRIBULATION and the WRATH of God, then this would therefore mean that there could NOT POSSIBLY BE ANY OTHER TRUMPETS that could SOUND, because the RAPTURE of the CHURCH takes place AT the SOUNDING of the LAST TRUMPET. Therefore there could NOT POSSIBLY BE ANY, NO, NOT ONE SINGLE SOUNDING of a TRUMPET during the time of GREAT TRIBULATION nor right before the WRATH of God is poured out, BECAUSE the LAST TRUMPET would have ALREADY been SOUND BEFORE the time of GREAT TRIBULATION.
TRUMPET means that there can be NO OTHER TRUMPETS to SOUND AFTER the
LAST TRUMPET has SOUNDED!
The word of God says AT. It is AT the sounding of the LAST TRUMPET. The word of God ALSO says BEGIN. So when the LAST TRUMPET BEGINS to SOUND the MYSTERY of our CHANGE will be ACCOMPLISHED of finished.
those that teach the PRE-tribulation rapture teach that we shall HEAR
the sound of the TRUMPET calling us HOME. Those in the grave will
HEAR his VOICE, but I do not remember reading anything in the word of
God about HEARING the LAST TRUMPET.
If things are as bad as the PRE-tribulation doctrine teaches, then it is hard for ME to picture the WHOLE WORLD watching satellite TV.
For ME I personally understand that the word of God is speaking of OUR CHANGE happening in a twinkling of an eye. As far as the CATCHING UP or ASCENDING UP into the CLOUDS to be GATHERED TOGETHER and then taken to MEET Jesus in the AIR over this place called ARMAGEDDON, I PERSONALLY do NOT see this PART of the RAPTURE occurring in a SPLIT SECOND.
INTERESTING COMPARISONS OF THE TRUMP OF GOD AT MT. SINAI-AND TRUMP OF GOD AT THE RAPTURE!
Verse 15 say, "And
he said unto the people, Be READY against the third day: come NOT at
So then IF the RAPTURE is IMMINENT so that you can NEVER KNOW when Jesus is coming, then in order for you to be READY for his coming then you are to NOT come at your wife. Just making some COMPARISONS. But is a POST tribulation rapture three days is not that hard to handle not coming at the wife. It might be easier to suffer 3 1/3 years of tribulation than NOT to come at the wife ever again. Also NO ONE goes to HEAVEN. Moses goes to the top of the mountain and then come right back down again. And God comes DOWN to the top of the mountain, very UNLIKE a PRE-tribulation rapture where Jesus does NOT touch the ground. If one is going to use this passage to try and prove a PRE-tribulation rapture then use the WHOLE account.
AGAIN, EVERY DETAIL is NOT given in EVERY passage of scripture. But in Revelation 11:12 they HEARD a GREAT VOICE.
much like 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, SHOUT, GREAT VOICE. Being CAUGHT
UP in the CLOUDS, ASCENDING UP in the CLOUDS.
sure how this proves a PRE-tribulation rapture.
According to the PRE-tribulation point of view the church dwells with Jesus IN HEAVEN for 7 years, but is Exodus God came DOWN to the Earth to dwell with man.
in a POST tribulation rapture God and Jesus come DOWN and we go UP to
the CLOUDS to MEET Jesus and then we come right back DOWN just like
Moses did in Exodus, then at the end of the 1000 years Almighty God
himself comes DOWN to DWELL with man.
argument there, but this ONLY PROVES a POST tribulation rapture of
the CHURCH and NOT a so called PER-tribulation rapture. Remember LAST
It does not matter what KIND of TRUMPET, whether it be SILVER or whether it be gold or brass. It does NOT matter what the TRUMPET is used for, because a TRUMPET is a TRUMPET and the LAST TRUMPET is the LAST TRUMPET, which means NO OTHER TRUMPET NO matter if it is a DIFFERENT SIZE COLOR SHAPE or even makes a DIFFERENT SOUND it is STILL A TRUMPET. If it is CALLED a TRUMPET by the WORD of ALMIGHTY GOD then it is a TRUMPET and NO OTHER TRUMPET no matter WHAT you WANT to believe can SOUND after the LAST TRUMPET has SOUNDED.
let LOGIC teach you WHEN the RAPTURE of the CHURCH will occur by the
SOUNDING of the LAST TRUMPET. There is ONLY ONE PLACE IN TIME where
this will work and ALL the scripture HARMONIZE, and that place in TIME
is AT the SECOND coming of our Lord just like our Lord and savior
Jesus Christ HIMSELF TAUGHT us in Matthew chapter 24.
THE FEASTS OF THE LORD
243. Four of the FEASTS are FULFILLED on the EXACT DAY when Israel observed them! (a.) PASSOVER, the 14th of Nisan, the FIRST MONTH of Israel’s RELIGIOUS YEAR. Jesus was CRUCIFIED on the VERY SAME DAY--the LAMB OF GOD, Who TAKES AWAY the sins of the world. (b.) UNLEAVENED BREAD, the 15th of Nisan. Jesus was BURIED by sundown, the START of that feast--Jesus’ burial on that EXACT DATE represents and FULFILLS the middle loaf which was HIDDEN or BURIED in the feast of Unleavened Bread. (c.) FIRSTFRUITS, the Sunday after Unleavened Bread (in 32 A.D., that EXACT DAY occurred THREE DAYS after Jesus was buried). On the THIRD DAY, Jesus ROSE from the DEAD and became THE FIRSTFRUITS of them that died. Fulfilled exactly! (d.) PENTECOST--also called the “Feast of Weeks,” 50th day after Firstfruits. The Holy Spirit descended upon the FIRST believers of THE CHURCH. When PENTECOST (Shavuot) was FULFILLED on the EXACT DAY of its CELEBRATION, the FIRST MEMBERS of the NEW CHURCH were JEWS, so the FEAST was FULFILLED in ISRAEL--even though the Church became predominantly Gentile throughout its history.
have not PERSONALLY checked the dates in history, but I believe this
like good logic which seems safe to ASSUME.
Zechariah 14:16 teaches us that the FEAST of TABERNACLES will be KEPT DURING the 1000 year REIGN of Jesus, hwich tells ME that the FEAST of TABERNACLES will NOT be FULFILLED UNTIL the END of the 1000 years when ALMIGHTY God HIMSELF will come DOWN to the NEW Earth to DWELL with man.
then, the feast of the TRUMPETS, PLURAL and the feast of the
ATONEMENT will be fulfilled in the last days BEFORE the 1000 year
reign of Jesus. But WHEN? Here is what Leviticus ACTUALLY says,
27. ALSO on the TENTH DAY of THIS SEVENTH MONTH there shall be a DAY of ATONEMENT: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and you shall AFFLICT your SOULS, and offer an offering made by FIRE unto the LORD.
34. Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The FIFTHTEENTH DAY of this SEVENTH month shall be the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto the LORD. (well to ME if the ONLY feast day that is being KEPT during the 1000 year REIGN of Jesus is the feast of TABERNACLES, then does this mean that all the other feasts days have been FULFILLED and no longer need to be KEPT?)
36. Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and you shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: it is a solemn assembly; and you shall do no servile work therein.
37. These are the feasts of the LORD, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day:
39. Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month,(the feast of TABERNACLES) when you have gathered in the fruit of the land, you shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.
40. And you shall take you on the first day the boughs of goodly trees, branches of palm trees, and the boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook; and you shall rejoice before the LORD your God seven days.
Well to ME it sounds like the feast of TRUMPETS covering the time of GREAT TRIBULATION when we are to AFFLICT our souls and PRAY for the PEOPLE. And the DAY of ATONEMENT sounds like a more specific and shorter period of time. Both sound very SERIOUS about AFFLICTING our SOULS lest we be CUT OFF.
But NONE of it sounds like a PRE-tribulation rapture in order to ESCAPE being AFFLICTED.
246. These FEASTS are for Israel. The Church has NOT been instructed to keep them. Colossians 2:16-17.
Well IF this were TRUE, then the CHURCH would have NO RIGHT to receive the Holy Spirit as they did on the Day of Pentecost that was FULFILLED on the EXACT DAY as this author stated earlier. In fact most EVERY thing in the Old Testament could be throw out, because most every thing was written to Israel and NOT to the CHURCH with this line of REASONING. Granted there are SOME things in the Bible that ONLY pertain to Israel, but IF the FEAST were ALL for Israel and NONE for the CHURCH, then why bring them up? We CANNOT pick and choose which feast pertain to us and which feasts pertain ONLY to Israel. Does the feast of the ATONEMENT pertain to the CHURCH? Does it pertain to Israel? Did Jesus dies for US only? Or did Jesus die for Israel as well?
the church has not been instructed to keep the feast days, but we are
TAUGHT in the word that the things in the Old Testament are SHADOWS
of things to COME, an EXAMPLES from which we can LEARN.
are given the SEVENTH MONTH in which the feast of TRUMPETS and the
DAY of ATONEMENT is to be KEPT and if ALL the OTHER feast were
FULFILLED of the EXACT DAY, then why not expect the DAY of ATONEMENT
to be FULFILED of the EXACT SAME DAY? But WHAT YEAR?
ME, I see the DAY and the HOUR NOT being KNOW at the TIME that Jesus
spoke these words, but NOT that the DAY and the HOUR could NEVER be
TO SUM IT UP!
TRUE, But there IS MUCH BIBLICAL EVIDENCE to CLEARLY SHOW that the RAPTURE occurs IMMEDIATELY AFTER the time of GREAT TRIBULATION!
ONLY if you CHANGE the meanings of CLEAR, PLAIN, and SIMPLE WORDS like:
Jesus will COME a SECOND TIME. No the Bible doesn't really mean that Jesus will come a SECOND time, you have to understand that Jesus NEEDS to come BEFORE the time of GREAT tribulation because we the CHURCH are NOT appointed to the WRATH of God so therefore Jesus need to come BEFORE the tribulation so that we can ESCAPE the WRATH of God, and THEN he will come again at his SECOND coming.
To ME that seems like TWISTING the scriptures to FIT one own PERSONALLY INTERPRETATION.
Blessed is he that has part in the FIRST resurrection. NO the Bible does NOT mean FIRST resurrection as just a SINGLE ONE TIME resurrection, but rather the Bible really means that the FIRST resurrection is DIVIDED into THREE DIFFERENT STAGES.
Again CHANGING the word of God to FIT a PERSONALLY INTERPRETATION.
But the REST of the DEAD lived NOY again UNTIL the END of the 1000 years. NO, what the Bible really means is that the REST hear refers to ONLY the WICKED.
Sounded logical when I first heard it, but then when I saw in the BIBLE that people in the MORTAL bodies DIED during the 1000 years I KNEW that not ALL of them were WICKED.
AT the LAST trumpet. NO the LAST TRUMPET could NOT possibly be the SEVENTH trumpet if Revelation, because those trumpets are trumpets of JUDGMENT and the trumpet at the rapture is a calling UP of the CHURCH. So when the Bible says LAST TRUMPET it really does NOT mean LAST.
can CHANGE all the words in the Bible you want, but it STILL will NOT
CHANGE the TRUTH! You can BELIEVE in a PRE-tribulation rapture jsut
like the athiest BELIEVES that there is NO God, but ANY BELEIF in
that which is FALSE will NOT cause it to BE SO!
In TRUTH there are ONLY about 20 arguments for a PRE-tribulation rapture that can be understood as legitimate and sincere questions.
ME all the other so-called REASONS to me are desperate attempts to
CLING to that which TICKLES the ear and is pleasant to hear.
Almost any BIBLICAL SOUND DOCTRINE can be torn apart by those who are WILLINGLY IGNORANT to ENDURE SOUND DOCTRINE!
It seems as if Biblical SOUND DOCTRINE belongs only to those seeking the TRUTH of the WHOLE word of God.
Thanks for reading. may God bless you richly as you continue to seek the TRUTH of the WHOLE word of God.
Your brother in our Lord Jesus Christ,
I was first taught the pre tribulation point of view and believed this teaching without question for a couple of years. Then I began to see some contradictions with this teaching in the word of God. I continued to believe this doctrine for a few more years, until I was led by the Holy Spirit to search out the truth for myself. Before this time I read this book that gave 50 reasons why the rapture will take place before the time of great tribulation. The author of this book is John Walvoord and the title of his book is The Rapture Question published by Zondevan. I have since destroyed the book, but
below are the 50 reasons he used that I got off the following website:
While I was searching for these 50 reasons I found this other author with 250 reasons so I chose to use her reasons, because she had five times as many. I leave these 50 reasons for you to read, but they are the same as those we have already covered in this study.
Reasons for a
50 Reasons for the Pretribulation Rapture
2. The detailed development of the pretribulational truth during the past few centuries does not prove that the doctrine is new or novel. Its development is similar to that of other major doctrines in the history of the church.
4. Pretribulationism distinguishes clearly between Israel and the church and their respective programs.
of the Tribulation
6. The Great Tribulation is properly interpreted by pretribulationists as a time of preparation for Israel's restoration (Deu. 4:29-30; Jer. 30:4-11). It is not the purpose of the Tribulation to prepare the church for glory.
7. None of the Old Testament passages on the Tribulation mention the church (Deu. 4:29-30; Jer. 30: 4-11; Dan. 8:24-27; 12:1-2).
8. None of the New Testament passages on the Tribulation mention the church (Matt. 13:30; 39-42, 48-50; 24:15-31; 1 Thess. 1:9-10; 5:4-9; 2 Thess. 2:1-11; Rev. 4-18).
9. In contrast to midtribulationism, the pretribulational view provides an adequate explanation for the beginning of the Great Tribulation in Revelation 6. Midtribulationism is refuted by the plain teaching of Scripture that the Great Tribulation begins long before the seventh trumpet of Revelation 11.
10. The proper distinction is maintained between the prophetic trumpets of Scripture by pretribulationism. There is no proper ground for the pivotal argument of midtribulationism that the seventh trumpet of Revelation is the last trumpet in that there is no established connection between the seventh trumpet of Revelation 11, the last trumpet of 1 Corinthians 15:52, and the trumpet of Matthew 24:31. They are three distinct events.
11. The unity of Daniel's seventieth week is maintained by pretribulationists. By contrast, postribulationism and midtribulationists destroy the unity of Daniel's seventieth week and confuse Israel's program with that of the church.
of the Church
13. The church is not appointed to wrath (Rom. 5:9: 1 Thess. 1:9-10; 5:9). The church therefore cannot enter "the great day of their wrath" (Rev. 6:17).
14. The church will not be overtaken by the day of the Lord (1 Thess. 5:1-9, which includes the Tribulation.
15. The possibility of a believer escaping the Tribulation is mentioned in Luke 21:36.
16. The church of Philadelphia was promised deliverance from "the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth" (Rev. 3:10).
17. It is characteristic of divine dealing to deliver believers before a divine judgment is inflicted on the world as illustrated in the deliverance of Noah, Lot, Rahab, etc. (2 Peter 2:5-9).
18. At the time of the translation of the church, all believers go to the Father's house in heaven (John 14:3) and do not immediately return to the earth after meeting Christ in the air as postribulationists teach.
19. Pretribulationism does not divide the body of Christ at the Rapture on a works principle. The teaching of a partial rapture is based on the false doctrine that the translation of the church is a reward for good works. It is rather a climactic aspect of salvation by grace.
20. The Scriptures clearly teach that all, not part, of the church will be raptured at the coming of Christ for the church (1 Cor. 15:51-52; 1 Thess. 4:17).
21. As opposed to a view of a partial rapture, pretribulationism is founded on the definite teaching of Scripture that the death of Christ frees from all condemnation.
22. The godly remnant of the Tribulation are pictured as Israelites, not members of the church as maintained by the posttribulationists.
23. The pretribulational view, as opposed to posttribulationism, does not confuse general terms like elect and saints, which apply to the saved of all ages, with specific terms like churchand those in Christ, which refer to believers of this age only.
25. The exhortation to be comforted by the coming of the Lord (1 Thess. 4:18) is very significant in the pretribulational view and is especially contradicted by most posttribulationists.
26. The exhortation to look for "the glorious appearing" of Christ to His own (Titus 2:13) loses its significance if the Tribulation must intervene first. Believers in that case should look for signs.
27. The exhortation to purify ourselves in view of the Lord's return has most significance if His coming is imminent (1 John 3:2-3).
28. The church is uniformly exhorted to look for the coming of the Lord, while believers in the Tribulation are directed to look for signs.
Work of the Holy Spirit
30. The Holy Spirit as the restrainer must be taken out of the world before "the lawless one," who dominates the tribulation period, can be revealed (2 Thess. 2:6-8).
31. If the expression "except there come a falling away first" (KJV) is translated literally, "except the "departure" come first," it would plainly show the necessity of the Rapture taking place before the beginning of the Tribulation.
of an Interval Between the Rapture and the Second Coming
33. If the twenty-four elders of Revelation 4:1-5:14 are representative of the church as many expositors believe, it would necessitate the rapture and reward of the church before the Tribulation.
34. The coming of Christ for His bride must take place before the Second Coming to the earth for the wedding feast (Rev. 19:7-10).
35. Tribulation saints are not translated at the second coming of Christ but carry on ordinary occupations such as farming and building houses, and they will bear children (Isa. 65:20-25). This would be impossible if the translation had taken place at the Second Coming to the earth, as posttribulationists teach.
36. The judgment of the Gentiles following the Second Coming (Matt. 25:31-46) indicates that both saved and unsaved are still in their natural bodies. This would be impossible if the translation had taken place at the Second Coming.
37. If the translation took place in connection with the Second Coming to the earth, there would be no need of separating the sheep from the goats at a subsequent judgment, but the separation would have taken place in the very act of the translation of the believers before Christ actually sets up His throne on earth (Matt. 25:31).
38. The judgment of Israel (Ezek. 20:34-38), which occurs subsequent to the Second Coming, indicates the necessity of regathering Israel. The separation of the saved from the unsaved in this judgment obviously takes place sometime after the Second Coming and would be unnecessary if the saved had previously been separated from the unsaved by translation.
Between the Rapture and the Second Coming
40. At the time of the Rapture the Mount of Olives is unchanged, while at the Second Coming it divides and a valley is formed to the east of Jerusalem (Zech. 14:4-5).
41. At the Rapture living saints are translated, while no saints are translated in connection with the second coming of Christ to the earth.
42. At the Rapture the saints go to heaven, while at the Second Coming to the earth the saints remain in the earth without translation.
43. At the time of the Rapture the world is unjudged and continues in sin, while at the Second Coming the world is judged and righteousness is established on the earth.
44. The translation of the church is pictured as a deliverance before the day of wrath, while the Second Coming is followed by the deliverance of those who have believed in Christ during the Tribulation.
45. The Rapture is described as imminent, while the Second Coming is preceded by definite signs.
46. The translation of living believers is a truth revealed only in the New Testament, while the Second Coming with its attendant events is a prominent doctrine of both Testaments.
47. The Rapture concerns only the saved, while the Second Coming deals with both saved and unsaved.
48. At the Rapture Satan is not bound, while at the Second Coming Satan is bound and cast into the abyss.
49. No unfulfilled prophecy stands between the church and the Rapture, while many signs must be fulfilled before the Second Coming.
50. No passage dealing with the resurrection of saints at the Second Coming ever mentions translation of living saints at the same time.
by: John F. Walvoord